Real time or evo time?

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,141
Visit site
✟98,005.00
Faith
Agnostic
Not even a little bit true. Why would I ignore DNA that exists??

For the same reason that you ignore isotope ratios that exist. If you don't like the evidence, you would just claim that the DNA came from a past state, and that it should be ignored.

Your problem is that you do not have any for the far past.

You wouldn't accept any DNA evidence as coming from the far past, no matter what.

All court cases that you keep mentioning re recent.

So what? Why can't you have DNA evidence thrown out because you can claim that the place where the murder happened was in a different state when the murder happened?

That depends if Noah is on trial or Manson.

What Noah? Evidence please.

What about the ratios that exist?? Nothing to ignore there. What must be shunned and rejected out of hand is your fanatical attempts to paint evidences with your little religion.

How are observations of radioactive decay a religion?

How so? How would you know what was required to 'reset' something in the former state!?

Why would a reset in the former state produce ratios that the current state produces?

No. They match (After much welding and hammering) only if the past was the same.

That's like saying that you only get a DNA match if you assume the suspect is guilty.

You are in no position to comment on what the bible nature in the past may have done, or not done. Why pretend? Your little game is to say that since you plumb do not know what the former nature was like, that we must use only the present state for models of the past! Sorry, ignorance is not a virtue.

I never said that we can only use a present state for our models. No one is forcing the ratios in rocks to exactly match the ratios produced by observed radioactive decay.

What else should they have?

If there was a different state past, then they should have different ratios, obviously.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The HI Theory is not about studing or deending anything. It's about making stuff up.
There may not be anything for you to study, since you are not here defending the bible or science. The problem is that what you post will remain worthless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heissonear
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
For the same reason that you ignore isotope ratios that exist. If you don't like the evidence, you would just claim that the DNA came from a past state, and that it should be ignored.
? Why pretend I ignore ratios, or that they pose any problem at all??


You wouldn't accept any DNA evidence as coming from the far past, no matter what.
Well, let's see some dino DNA or something from the far past and test that. You seem to like to pretend you have something, or one day might have something or might have some evidence one day. Be honest.


So what? Why can't you have DNA evidence thrown out because you can claim that the place where the murder happened was in a different state when the murder happened?
All courts are in this state and all DNA is from this state that I am aware of. Name the oldest DNA. Is it pre KT layer?


What Noah? Evidence please.
Again you ask for evidence when science can't deal with it and while rejecting all the record of man and history and God. Be honest.


How are observations of radioactive decay a religion?
When you molest those observations with same state past religion and dates.


Why would a reset in the former state produce ratios that the current state produces?
You don't so much know if it was reset in the former state. Be honest.


I never said that we can only use a present state for our models. No one is forcing the ratios in rocks to exactly match the ratios produced by observed radioactive decay.
Matching the extrapolated decay rates from...THIS STATE! Ha. You bewry yourself.

If there was a different state past, then they should have different ratios, obviously.
Obviously not, since we do not have what you fantasize about...some different ratios. Why make stuff up?
 
Upvote 0

Derek Meyer

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
438
114
44
Pretoria
✟17,192.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yep. Of course anyone looking for stuff deep in the earth would go by the known pattern of layers. The trick is to explain why those layers got there, and in what nature etc.
No. They use the patterns that have been wrongfully tagged with foolish ages. If the Jurassic, for example was really something like 5300 years ago, then the layers and patterns of layers would still be as we see them. The thing is the times would be wrong. It is your religion I take issue with, not the evidence!
Nope. Old earth methods work. You do know that you're very welcome to do exploration and open up your own mines using YEC methods?

If your methods work, exploration and mining companies would take those up in a sec. Unfortunately for you, old earth models have been shown to work very well.
 
Upvote 0

Derek Meyer

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
438
114
44
Pretoria
✟17,192.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This one is soooo funny:

Yep. Of course anyone looking for stuff deep in the earth would go by the known pattern of layers.
You really, really don't have a clue. What the heck is 'the known pattern of layers'? Never found that in my country.

In the end, all those mining and exploration companies use old earth models. Old earth models work.
 
Upvote 0

Derek Meyer

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
438
114
44
Pretoria
✟17,192.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well, let's see some dino DNA or something from the far past and test that.
I think that every geneticist in the world would really, really love to get some dino DNA to test. Lots of them are looking for it; but so far all they got were some demineralised (in labs) soft tissue from around 80 million years ago. No DNA that old was found so far.

But, I'm confident that the more those scientists figure out where and how exactly to try and find for 80 million years old DNA, and be able to sequence those, the more likely that it would be found.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,141
Visit site
✟98,005.00
Faith
Agnostic
? Why pretend I ignore ratios, or that they pose any problem at all??

Why do you refuse to engage my argument?

Well, let's see some dino DNA or something from the far past and test that.

If dino's are that old and there was a same state past, then there shouldn't be any dino DNA worth sequencing. That's the whole point.

You claim that we don't have any of Adam's DNA, as if that was a point against us. It isn't. It is a point against you. You are the one who claims that Adam was a real person. So where is his DNA? Where is there any evidence that Adam ever existed?

You seem to like to pretend you have something, or one day might have something or might have some evidence one day. Be honest.

You ignore the evidence because you know it disproves your claims.

All courts are in this state and all DNA is from this state that I am aware of.

What is stopping someone from claiming that any DNA sample is from a different state past, and is therefore not valid?

Name the oldest DNA. Is it pre KT layer?

It is pre-5,000 AD. Of course, there is no way you would ever accept any DNA evidence.

Again you ask for evidence when science can't deal with it and while rejecting all the record of man and history and God. Be honest.

Why would science need to deal with fictitious stories and myths? If you want to claim that something is real history, then you need to produce real evidence that those things actually occurred, but you don't. Instead, you just assume the myths are true and refuse to consider any evidence to the contrary.

When you molest those observations with same state past religion and dates.

Show us how they have been molested. Until then, stop with the false accusations.

You don't so much know if it was reset in the former state. Be honest.

Just answer the question.

Why would a reset in a different state past produce the exact ratios produced by same state radioactive decay? If you can't answer this question, then your argument is completely falsified.

Matching the extrapolated decay rates from...THIS STATE! Ha. You bewry yourself.

Nothing is being extrapolated. The ratios are calculated from the directly measured and observed decay rates.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This one is soooo funny:

You really, really don't have a clue. What the heck is 'the known pattern of layers'? Never found that in my country.

In the end, all those mining and exploration companies use old earth models. Old earth models work.
None of what they use needs the time invoked. We know layers were laid down in order and some are older, so of course some time is involved. But that could be hundreds of years rather than the millions that they bandy about. Part of the patterns that exist as we get down to older rock is the isotopic ratios. The thing is, unless we had a same state in the past, those ratios do not represent the sort of time you thought.

Try and show us how the millions of years are required and we will see.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I think that every geneticist in the world would really, really love to get some dino DNA to test.
Right. Meanwhile, back at the ranch....tell Loudmouth that they have none will ya?
Lots of them are looking for it; but so far all they got were some demineralised (in labs) soft tissue from around 80 million years ago. No DNA that old was found so far.
So until we get some, we don't know what it was like.
But, I'm confident that the more those scientists figure out where and how exactly to try and find for 80 million years old DNA, and be able to sequence those, the more likely that it would be found.

You can hope and prophesy all you like. Bottom line, you do not know.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Why do you refuse to engage my argument?
Try and get it together and get some cohesive argument that you can post clearly. Maybe someone will respond to it if it is reasoned.



If dino's are that old and there was a same state past, then there shouldn't be any dino DNA worth sequencing. That's the whole point.
You guys get your story straight now will ya? The previous poster just expressed great hope that they would find some.

One thing for absolute certain is, that we would not attribute your fantasy state past to being the reason that no real ancient DNA exists!
You claim that we don't have any of Adam's DNA, as if that was a point against us. It isn't. It is a point against you. You are the one who claims that Adam was a real person. So where is his DNA? Where is there any evidence that Adam ever existed?
If Adam went back to being dust like God said he would, then why would we expect what you claim??? That is crazy talk.

You ignore the evidence because you know it disproves your claims.
Try posting said evidence. Be honest.

What is stopping someone from claiming that any DNA sample is from a different state past, and is therefore not valid?
?? Try to face the fact you have no real ancient DNA rather than invent conspiracies about what might happen if you did!

It is pre-5,000 AD. Of course, there is no way you would ever accept any DNA evidence.
False. I assume the flood was somewhere near the KT layer. In so called science fantasy time that is many millions of years ago!


Why would science need to deal with fictitious stories and myths?
No choice, it IS fictitious stories and myths!!

If you want to claim that something is real history, then you need to produce real evidence that those things actually occurred, but you don't. Instead, you just assume the myths are true and refuse to consider any evidence to the contrary.
The record of earliest man cannot be shown true or false by science. So what would you like us to do, hire a psychic to divine the records!!??

Show us how they have been molested. Until then, stop with the false accusations.
Easy. Look at continental drift at say the rate of a fingernail growing. They use that rate from the present to say great time was involved. Look at decay rates. They use present state decay rates to claim great time for ratios. Look at evolving. They use present nature and laws and processes of life to claim great ages for ancient life. Etc etc.

Why would a reset in a different state past produce the exact ratios produced by same state radioactive decay?
The point you either ignore or do not comprehend, is that we have no way of knowing so much as if something was reset in the former state. Do we? Explain how?

You seem to be claiming that because a reset IN THIS PRESENT STATE would be required to make the isotopes a certain way, that this would mean a reset in the former state also would! How about creation? Would that count as a reset in some cases?? You ain't deep, you just ain't clear.


Nothing is being extrapolated. The ratios are calculated from the directly measured and observed decay rates.
Out of your own mouth we see that it is by what we now measure that you view all the ratios! Hoo ha
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,141
Visit site
✟98,005.00
Faith
Agnostic
You guys get your story straight now will ya? The previous poster just expressed great hope that they would find some.

We would already have some if the Earth were only 6,000 years old. That is a point against your theory.

One thing for absolute certain is, that we would not attribute your fantasy state past to being the reason that no real ancient DNA exists!

Based on what evidence?

If Adam went back to being dust like God said he would, then why would we expect what you claim???

God didn't say that. A human wrote that.

Second, where is your evidence that any of that happened?

Try posting said evidence. Be honest.

Already posted several times.

You still can't explain why a different state past would produce the same exact ratios as a same state past. Until you do, the evidence stands.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Derek Meyer

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
438
114
44
Pretoria
✟17,192.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
None of what they use needs the time invoked.
Really? Those exploration and mining companies disagree. They tend to study the processes involved in how "rocks" form and what would be found underground.

Old earth methods work.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

AirPo

with a Touch of Grey
Oct 31, 2003
26,359
7,214
60
✟169,357.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Really? Those exploration and mining companies disagree. They tend to study the processes involved in how "rocks" form and what would be found underground.

Old earth methods work.
So does making things up. It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
We would already have some if the Earth were only 6,000 years old. That is a point against your theory.
Which part of 'so called science time' did you not get? In real time, probably the KT layer was less than 5000 years ago.


Based on what evidence?
Based on the glaring fact you HAVE no DNA from that time.


God didn't say that. A human wrote that.
A human posted your post. A human did not raise Christ from death.
Second, where is your evidence that any of that happened?
All that matters in this debate is that the bible says that. It does. The disposal of bodies was apparently lightning fast compared to the nature of today.


Already posted several times.
Again, be honest.
You still can't explain why a different state past would produce the same exact ratios as a same state past.
Neither can you!!!! That shows you know nothing about the nature of the past. Nothing to brag about. Science must know, or face the fact that they are ignorant and in the dark.

Until you do, the evidence stands.
"The evidence"?-- No such thing, all evidence can be looked at without your strange belief system.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Really? Those exploration and mining companies disagree. They tend to study the processes involved in how "rocks" form and what would be found underground.

Old earth methods work.
They do not know how the rocks formed!!! The long ages invoked are religious twaddle. Really. No kidding.
Looking at for example, sediments and how long they would have taken to pile up and form in the former nature is way beyond the little paygrade of so called science.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Derek Meyer

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
438
114
44
Pretoria
✟17,192.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
They do not know how the rocks formed!!! The long ages invoked are religious twaddle. Really. No kidding.
Looking at for example, sediments and how long they would have taken to pile up and form in the former nature is way beyond the little paygrade of so called science.
Yet, old earth models work. That's why all those exploration and mining companies use old earth models.
 
Upvote 0