Why are most christians against asylum seekers?

yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE stephen583 I have some personal experience in this area. After Hurricane Katrina I was homeless for ten years. One day I was a fire captain with 8 years on the department (Fireman of the Year in 1989) with an 1800 square foot house, a mini-van and a Fiat sports car, and a 30 foot sailboat sitting in the marina. The day after Katrina, I was standing in a line with 300 other homeless people waiting for one roll of toilet paper for a family of four. Wasn't I compensated by Insurance for all that stuff ? Sure I got a $1,500 dollar check from AllState before they bailed on everyone in Louisiana. Since my home was now re-designated as being located in a flood zone, I had to pay to raise it 25 feet in the air on pilings in order to qualify for any government hurricane assistance.

Initially, the churches in Houston responded with amazing generosity towards New Orleans refugees. They allowed tent camping on their property, provided wonderful meals, cloths and other forms of support. After about 12 months, the charity dried up and disappeared completely, even despite, or perhaps because of the reality the possibility of refugees returning to New Orleans was virtually nill. You couldn't even fill a one gallon jug from a church water spigot without being threatened with trespassing and theft. These conditions forced me to leave the Houston area two years after Katrina. My now ex-wife returned to California with the two step-kids to live with her mother.

Every city and town I passed through for the next ten years had an extremely hostile homeless policy. I was constantly being brutalized by police, and forced out of town onto BLM land where I had to live in a tent. Stays on BLM land are limited to 14 days, then you have to relocate 30 miles distance to another BLM in order to be legal. Believe me, when you exited a BLM, you were monitored the whole time you were walking.

Most inner city (inter-faith) shelters were deplorable. Bed bug infested mattresses and pillows, feces on the floor of cold water showers. Nowhere safe to lock up your belongings. Spend a week in a shelter, loose everything to theft and start over again. Drug dealers were ignored and conducted business openly on shelter property everywhere.

In Albuquerque New Mexico the shelter guards actually allowed the drug dealers to carry guns into the shelter and break into the front of the food lines. Everyone has to make a living I suppose and drug dealers can't be bothered with standing in line. Seems the guards and shelter workers were being paid off by the drug dealers, that's the story I heard anyway.

In every Christian Inter-faith shelter I stayed in, I saw cloths donations come in the front door and go straight out the back, loaded into the cars of shelter employees, their friends, or second hand store owners. Not a bad racket. Give a tax exemption right off for donations, and second hand store owners mark the donations up to 70 % of retail and resell the stuff. Meanwhile, the homeless are suffering from exposure and frost bite injury.
Shelters that handled food donations to the underprivileged, spent all afternoon loading boxes of food into Cadillac Escalades, Toyota SUV's and Lincoln Town Cars. It works the same way at most Christian soup kitchens. Donated boxes of steak are unloaded by grocer trucks and stored inside freezers, and that's the last time you ever see it again. The soup kitchens even ask the homeless to help as volunteers and unload the trucks. Sometimes you're asked to load the boxes of meat from the freezers into the Town cars. Some nerve, huh ?

After leaving Houston, for the next ten years, I was only approached personally three times by people who identified themselves as Christians and offered to help. The most extravagant gift I received was a new pair of hiking boots purchased at a nearby Walmart Store by a woman. The rest of the time, I might as well have been a ghost. Nobody ever looked me in the eye. They sort of looked through you. Like you weren't there.

Are any of you aware Jesus and his disciples were homeless guys ??? "Inasmuch as you have done this to the least of those among you, you have also done it to me", (Matthew 25:40-45). Good luck with that when you find yourselves face to face with him....end QUOTE

Just as Jesus was treated...... So His disciples are treated (in the usa)...
Same thing has been happening quite some time, instead of doing what Jesus says to do..... Only a few even care....
 
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stephen583

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That's a stretch. Twenty first century homelessness and what Jesus and the boys were are oranges and apples.


Really ? Where does it say anywhere in the Bible Jesus and any of his disciples took up permanent lodgings ? Chapter and verse if you please. I've actually read the Gospel and it sounds to me like they were basically itinerates who travelled from place to place, often sleeping on the ground, and only on occasion staying briefly in a house owned by someone else. Sure does sound like a bunch of homeless guys to me.
 
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Landon Caeli

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This thread is straying from the topic. We're not talking about preaching to ISIS or whether the homeless today are comparable to the homeless of another time.

Also, I dont know who some people are responding to because they dont use the "quote" option. Others are too vague and hard to understand what they're saying. Lets be clear.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Why it seems most Christians are against asylum seekers?
Lots of examples in the last few pages of posts.
Largely, Christians don't know what the Bible says to do. (How Many Read the Bible?)

Partly, The Bible does not say to take in all asylum seekers .
Partly, The Bible does not say the government of any gentile nation will do what is right.
Partly, There's not nearly enough people who BELIEVE the BIBLE ......
(that might be the main reason, whether to help or not help; and who to help, is not known nor done)
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Really ? Where does it say anywhere in the Bible Jesus and any of his disciples took up permanent lodgings ? Chapter and verse if you please. I've actually read the Gospel and it sounds to me like they were basically itinerates who travelled from place to place, often sleeping on the ground, and only on occasion staying briefly in a house owned by someone else. Sure does sound like a bunch of homeless guys to me.

Are an itinerate preacher and a guy with a shopping cart full of cans are the same thing in your mind?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Jesus said "Whatever you do ......" ....
and
again
"If you treat the man in suit and tie any different than the one in old worn clothes ... "
and
again
"Despise not the ...."
and
again
"YHWH THE CREATOR" chose the ...... castoffs ..... (for Himself)
 
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Circle Christ

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Are an itinerate preacher and a guy with a shopping cart full of cans are the same thing in your mind?
What if that man pushing that cart of cans was Jesus?

And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
 
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martinlb

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That nations have borders and have the authority to defend those border, enforce the law, and protect their citizens from foreign invaders is a Biblical principle.

It looks like the issue has somehow shifted. I agree completely that nations have borders and have the right to defend them. I don't think that has anything much to do with what God has instructed us do though; I think that's a whole other matter.
 
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martinlb

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Given the right circumstances, I could have been a member of ISIS. If I were born in the middle east 20 years ago to a Muslim family. . . In other words, I am no better than any of them. "There but for the grace of God go I". . .

Having said that, we don't just throw caution to the wind in dealing with this situation.

Ditto.
 
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martinlb

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I have some personal experience in this area. After Hurricane Katrina I was homeless for ten years. One day I was a fire captain with 8 years on the department (Fireman of the Year in 1989) with an 1800 square foot house, a mini-van and a Fiat sports car, and a 30 foot sailboat sitting in the marina. The day after Katrina, I was standing in a line with 300 other homeless people waiting for one roll of toilet paper for a family of four. Wasn't I compensated by Insurance for all that stuff ? Sure I got a $1,500 dollar check from AllState before they bailed on everyone in Louisiana. Since my home was now re-designated as being located in a flood zone, I had to pay to raise it 25 feet in the air on pilings in order to qualify for any government hurricane assistance.

Initially, the churches in Houston responded with amazing generosity towards New Orleans refugees. They allowed tent camping on their property, provided wonderful meals, cloths and other forms of support. After about 12 months, the charity dried up and disappeared completely, even despite, or perhaps because of the reality the possibility of refugees returning to New Orleans was virtually nill. You couldn't even fill a one gallon jug from a church water spigot without being threatened with trespassing and theft. These conditions forced me to leave the Houston area two years after Katrina. My now ex-wife returned to California with the two step-kids to live with her mother.

Every city and town I passed through for the next ten years had an extremely hostile homeless policy. I was constantly being brutalized by police, and forced out of town onto BLM land where I had to live in a tent. Stays on BLM land are limited to 14 days, then you have to relocate 30 miles distance to another BLM in order to be legal. Believe me, when you exited a BLM, you were monitored the whole time you were walking.

Most inner city (inter-faith) shelters were deplorable. Bed bug infested mattresses and pillows, feces on the floor of cold water showers. Nowhere safe to lock up your belongings. Spend a week in a shelter, loose everything to theft and start over again. Drug dealers were ignored and conducted business openly on shelter property everywhere.

In Albuquerque New Mexico the shelter guards actually allowed the drug dealers to carry guns into the shelter and break into the front of the food lines. Everyone has to make a living I suppose and drug dealers can't be bothered with standing in line. Seems the guards and shelter workers were being paid off by the drug dealers, that's the story I heard anyway.

In every Christian Inter-faith shelter I stayed in, I saw cloths donations come in the front door and go straight out the back, loaded into the cars of shelter employees, their friends, or second hand store owners. Not a bad racket. Give a tax exemption right off for donations, and second hand store owners mark the donations up to 70 % of retail and resell the stuff. Meanwhile, the homeless are suffering from exposure and frost bite injury.
Shelters that handled food donations to the underprivileged, spent all afternoon loading boxes of food into Cadillac Escalades, Toyota SUV's and Lincoln Town Cars. It works the same way at most Christian soup kitchens. Donated boxes of steak are unloaded by grocer trucks and stored inside freezers, and that's the last time you ever see it again. The soup kitchens even ask the homeless to help as volunteers and unload the trucks. Sometimes you're asked to load the boxes of meat from the freezers into the Town cars. Some nerve, huh ?

After leaving Houston, for the next ten years, I was only approached personally three times by people who identified themselves as Christians and offered to help. The most extravagant gift I received was a new pair of hiking boots purchased at a nearby Walmart Store by a woman. The rest of the time, I might as well have been a ghost. Nobody ever looked me in the eye. They sort of looked through you. Like you weren't there.

Are any of you aware Jesus and his disciples were homeless guys ??? "Inasmuch as you have done this to the least of those among you, you have also done it to me", (Matthew 25:40-45). Good luck with that when you find yourselves face to face with him.

I hate that such an experience could happen and that it happened to you. Your post reminds all of us about how unpredictable life is and about corruption and the human heart. All the more reason the body of Christ has been set apart, not to live as the world lives. I believe you've also stated the truth straight-up about each of us, that's 100%, at some point being directly in front of God face to face. We will see every excuse we've ever indulged ourselves in, every time we've made a way to explain to ourselves why we don't need obedience, every manner in which we've weakened the credibility of the Church, every single time we've sinned.

At that point the falsehood and the weakness of our self-deception will blow right through everything we've tried to build in order to keep ourselves where we decided we wanted to be. I hope we can, as brothers and sisters, help one another to see where we falter and where we fail. Besides bringing out a great deal of joy and positive results, that's one of the things we're called to do. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, the Church is very distracted and misdirected at this point in time. We can change that, though.

Best to you!
 
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martinlb

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"This is another example of my opinion but it seems to me that the overwhelming message of God is that we're to show compassion and mercy. I can't think of any examples where we are told to decide, based on self interest or risk to ourselves, who to extend compassion and help to or when to do it"

The countries these immigrants are coming from have shown little regard for Christians, in fact Christians have been persecuted in those parts of the world. We can show compassion and mercy by helping them rebuild their own countries, but as has become apparent they do not want to embrace our way of life, they do not want to assimilate but rather have shown violence towards those who do not share their religion it is dangerous and foolish to think that we can welcome them and they will be grateful and respect our Christianity. We have a duty to protect ourselves, our women and children from persecution. I don't believe God wants us to bow down to those who have made it clear they want to take over the world and that anyone not sharing their beliefs will meet a horrible fate.

It looks like we disagree on this area. I don't believe there is anywhere in the bible where we're told do behave in a certain way, and then we find that invalidated somewhere else. I could be misunderstanding you, and if so please set me straight!, but it looks to me like you're saying if someone doesn't have any regard for Christianity and doesn't want to assimilate into our way of life we don't have an obligation to show them compassion and take them in. My understanding of the "good Samaritan" is that it would be common for the people of Israel to feel the same way toward Samaritans as many of us feel about a significant portion of the people in the mid east. Jesus taught how we should respond. And one interesting aspect of the good Samaritan is that it's the person we would normally hate who was good and who rescues one of ours.

I'm also sure I haven't seen anything in the bible about us having a duty to protect ourselves from persecution. What I have seen, actually, is that persecution WILL come as a result of being a Christian.
 
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martinlb

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[QUOTE="Razare, post: 69769304, member: 364513"

Also, Christians are too afraid of ISIS. Real Christians would march into Syria and die preaching the gospel. They would not cower in fear, when a whole ocean separates them from the enemy, and they have the world's strongest military backing their government. That people have one fretful moment shows they fail to believe God about what the Bible says Psalm 91.[/QUOTE]

Yes. All a person has to do is read the book of Acts. The places God took Paul and others to were often extremely dangerous and unwelcoming places. Many lost their lives. That's one thing where I cringe. I honestly don't know what I'd do if God called me to the middle east. I for the most part believe that I would not have the courage or passion to go. I'm one of the many Christians in this culture who has had life easy enough that I've gotten accustomed to it. The Church has never done well during times of prosperity, that's a dynamic that's been identified and written about by Christian scholars and leaders going back a very long time. Thanks for bringing that up.
 
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stephen583

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Are an itinerate preacher and a guy with a shopping cart full of cans are the same thing in your mind?


In the ten years I was homeless, I do believe I met several "shopping cart" pushing prophets. One old bearded guy wearing cammo in particular used to show up at the Durango soup kitchen with a sign that read, "The End Is Near". I had seen the guy standing on Main street in Durango carrying the same sign and watched him, he wasn't pan handeling because I saw him turn down money several times when it was offered. I was curious if the guy was mentally ill, or not. So I engaged him in conversation one afternoon. He informed me I should leave Durango immediately, because he was going to bring a curse upon the town. It wasn't long after that I left Durango.

About a year later, around May 2015 I was watching the evening news and saw a story that left me stunned. An old gold mine on the mountain side above the town had collapsed into the Animas River that runs through Durango and dumped tons and tons of cyanide laden dirt into the river. The News was calling it the worst environmental disaster in the history of the South West. The Animas is one of the premier trout fishing destinations in America. It also feeds into the Colorado River. All I could think was, "good for you George". "Maybe now someone will take your sign seriously" ! To this day, I wonder if I didn't meet Elijah in Durango, Colorado.

The Bible does in fact confirm Jesus was homeless. As pointed out in post #231 by "Circle of Christ" the Scripture does say "the Son of Man shall have no place to rest his head". By the way, John the Baptist was homeless too. According to Scripture, he lived in the wilderness and lived off wild honey and grasshoppers. That's three paragraphs, right ?
 
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jimmyjimmy

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In the ten years I was homeless, I do believe I met several "shopping cart" pushing prophets. One old bearded guy wearing cammo in particular used to show up at the Durango soup kitchen with a sign that read, "The End Is Near". I had seen the guy standing on Main street in Durango carrying the same sign and watched him, he wasn't pan handeling because I saw him turn down money several times when it was offered. I was curious if the guy was mentally ill, or not. So I engaged him in conversation one afternoon. He informed me I should leave Durango immediately, because he was going to bring a curse upon the town. It wasn't long after that I left Durango.

About a year later, around May 2015 I was watching the evening news and saw a story that left me stunned. An old gold mine on the mountain side above the town had collapsed into the Animas River that runs through Durango and dumped tons and tons of cyanide laden dirt into the river. The News was calling it the worst environmental disaster in the history of the South West. The Animas is one of the premier trout fishing destinations in America. It also feeds into the Colorado River. All I could think was, "good for you George". "Maybe now someone will take your sign seriously" ! To this day, I wonder if I didn't meet Elijah in Durango, Colorado.

The Bible does in fact confirm Jesus was homeless. As pointed out in post #231 by "Circle of Christ" the Scripture does say "the Son of Man shall have no place to rest his head". By the way, John the Baptist was homeless too. According to Scripture, he lived in the wilderness and lived off wild honey and grasshoppers. That's three paragraphs, right ?

The connection you are trying to make about modern-day homelessness and Jesus traveling with the apostles is not there. That's my point.

Also, your bar is set pretty low for God's bringing a curse on a place. There are some good examples in the OT, and what you've described isn't a blip in comparison.

The man was ill. There are many of them within the homeless population.
 
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martinlb

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ISIS is a band of murderers and rapists. They worship Satan. They hate God and the Holy Spirit and they hate you if you're Christian. Anyone who thinks they can persuede ISIS in any way is a fool, and anyone who sacrifices their families, including their children for ISIS' sake, has helped ISIS and their father the devil.

Who is talking about sacrificing their families and children?
 
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