A couple with 'church, work and life issues'.

Sean Marah · Jun 11, 2016

Hey Everyone,

This is my first post so bear with me.

My fiancee and I are having a few issues with life and would love to get some advice and hear other peoples experiences!

In order to explain i will write two paragraphs, the problems i am facing and the problems by fiancee is facing.

ME
For the last three years i have been doing a degree in Theology, alongside this i have been running a youth ministry at my church as a vulunteer, which takes about 15-20 hours work a week. I finished my degree 2 weeks ago and have now found myself in massive limbo. Over the past year the church has been talking to me about possibly paying me once i had finished. I am passionate about youth work and feel that this is what i want to do for the rest of my life. Sadly, a week before finishing the degree the church leaders met with me and told they wouldn't be paying me, but would love me to stay and carry on doing what i am doing. This causes a huge dilemma for me, in 7 weeks time i am getting married and cannot provide financially. Also, youth ministry is what brings me life and the thought of having to waste 40 hours of my week working and then in my spare time doing what i love quite honest makes me feel ill.

My Fiancee (Abbie)
Abbie finished her degree a year ago (she got a 1st and the highest grade ever at her college) and has been working a job which treats her poorly and is not her passion. The church we are a part of have not invested into her at all. She is the most lovely, kind and intelligent person. She has pursued people and has received nothing back. She has been in a kind of deep sadness for a year a now.

Abbie and me find ourselves feeling depressed and low every day. We do not feel honoured, blessed or loved by our church. We love our church, we love Jesus and we love doing our passion which is working with young people. But we feel so out of place and so dishonoured, people want us to stay for free but offer nothing to help us live or support us personally... in 7 weeks time we need a place to live, but can't get one because i am yet to have a full time job, but i am looking frantically and praying God will help us. The only reason we would have loved to have been paid by our church is so we can truly be released serve young people. But we will not be able to give our best in our current circumstances. It kind of feels like we are not in community that values us.

We hate moaning, and most of the time we are the most happy people, but we are truly struggling... and the more i think about it: for good reasons.

What do we do? Has anyone gone through anything similar?

Albion · Jun 11, 2016

Face it, you need a new church.

For me to say that doesn't mean that this church teaches wrongly or that it doesn't value both of you, but if these people are incapable or unwilling to pay for a youth minister and for her services--although you are qualified and other congregations do pay for the same--you need to go. With regrets, surely, but go.

Maybe that will involve relocating, too; but you have to find somewhere where you can serve and also live normally. It's nothing to be ashamed of or apologetic about and, no, it's not an unusual situation.

ValleyGal · Jun 11, 2016

Yes, we can identify as we have had very similar (but not the same) circumstances. We have come to the conclusion that we do not belong there at that church. It broke my heart to finally admit it was time to move on....but it also broke my heart to stay. Unfortunately, we have not found a new church we both feel comfortable at.

The other option is to find a job and both work to gain experience, and both volunteer to do youth where you are. I do think it is unfair for your church to lead you on the way they did, and then a week before grad tell you that you don't have the job you thought you might. I can see how there is a lot of pain associated with this church, and you will need to forgive them - not an easy task.

Finding a job after graduating is also really challenging. Your fiance has a job. She might not like it, but it is giving her valuable experience. She should hold onto this job until she can find another job. And you should also take whatever job comes along. Once your immediate food and housing needs are met, you will be able to more easily focus together on where you want to take your future. As Albion said, it might involve relocating.... but this can be an exciting adventure!

All the best as you work through this stuff and move towards your wedding day!

John Davidson · Jun 11, 2016

The fact is that there are not too many jobs in youth ministry. So you are probably going to need to find another job.

You may also want to find a new church as well where you aren't expected to work for free.

As far as your fiancé goes, she needs to stay in her job until she finds another one and finding a new church may benefit her since she is currently unhappy.

Albion · Jun 11, 2016

Sean, there seems to be a trend in the answers you've being given, so perhaps we could change the subject for a moment.

Of course the church would like you to stay on...for free. So what if you responded, politely, that this is sad news and you understand, but this means you'll have to find work as a youth pastor somewhere else? After all, you can't marry and start married life without employment.

Normal people would almost expect this to be the consequence of their decision, and they may be counting on you being so loyal that you'll forego what every other college-trained youth minister would expect.

It's a part-time job, so I take it that even a part-time salary would have been enough to convince you to stay on for at least the time being. Is there a chance that they'd reconsider rather than lose both of you as members in the church and also lose you as the youth minister? They're not likely to find another one as qualified as you are to work for nothing.

Sean Marah · Jun 11, 2016

I massively appreciate all these responses... It has really helped me to gain some extra perspective. And 'Albion' i truly appreciate your level-headedness. I am not sure if they would reconsider, but you are exactly right, a part-time salary would have been enough. The thing is, i am not angry or upset with anyone... just confused about what the best next step is. Its certainly something we intend to keep discussing and praying about, hopefully will figure it out very soon!

John Davidson · Jun 11, 2016

Sean Marah said:
just confused about what the best next step is.

Sean, pardon me for saying this but I think the next step is obvious. You need to find a job whatever that may be. This may or may not involve working as a youth minister at a new church. So start putting in applications, I would say that is the next step.

Albion · Jun 11, 2016

Sean Marah said:
I massively appreciate all these responses... It has really helped me to gain some extra perspective. And 'Albion' i truly appreciate your level-headedness. I am not sure if they would reconsider, but you are exactly right, a part-time salary would have been enough. The thing is, i am not angry or upset with anyone... just confused about what the best next step is. Its certainly something we intend to keep discussing and praying about, hopefully will figure it out very soon!

Hi. Well, that is part of my thinking--you are not angry. You can therefore describe your decision to the church council (if this turns out to be your decision) to seek a position as a youth minister in some other congregation that is seeking one--and announce this without any rancor or bitterness or recriminations.

You are in the position to say that you hate to have to do this, and you understand that church funds are not unlimited, but you have to have a job now that you've graduated and will be a new husband with a family to consider. See what happens. Unless, that is, you absolutely will not leave that church regardless, but it seems to me that you have to at least try to find a paying position as a youth minister after training for it all this time.

tturt · Jun 12, 2016

If you move on, you know you'll need to leave on good terms because they'll be called for references for years to come. In fact, you might want to get a letter of recommendation and have copies made. Staff changes, etc. Also, asking Yahweh for wisdom (James 1:5) for you.

Goodbook · Jun 12, 2016

I dont know how old you are but if you are fresh out of college and want to be married, set up house, you will need to find a steady job. Church does not exist so it can pay your mortgage.

If you do the work of your own hands, mind your own business, then you wont have to rely on anyone else. Do YOU support others who are also struggling?

Heres the thing. GOd is willing to provide all your needs. But just how big are your needs? If we have food and clothing, we are content. Jesus was homeless throught all his ministry.

He stayed at other peoples houses.
Some churches provide a manse but that is for ministers whove proven they can rule their households well ...see letter to Timothy.

Theres lots of ways you can minister to youth in workplaces. Get into teaching, ask schools, find work in libraries.

I know its frustrating that a church cant pay you, but the reality is if your church is not in a wealthy area then dont expect to be paid. Even Paul made tents and earned his living.

insurchoftruth · Jun 12, 2016

It does not matter who loves you and who does not! What matters is that both of you are loved very much by God, all the time! If you have God's approval, care and love for you personally, it does not matter what other people think about you, and if they support you or not! God does, because he said that he cares for us!

Fix your eyes on Jesus, and his Word! Do not look around and live by sight! The Bible calls us to live by faith - 2 Corinthians 5:7. Do believe that God cares for you, because he has said so! Not to believe that, is equal to say that that is a lie. But we know that God does not lie, and that it is the truth!

The more we look to circumstances, the more we will be discouraged. To live by circumstances, is to build our life on the sand, and Jesus said that when the storms comes, our building on the sand will collapse. We build our life on the sand, if we build based on circumstances.
But, if we build our lives on what God says about our life, then we build our life on a rock, which is the Word of God, and which lasts forever! Then, when the storms of life come, our building on the rock will stand, and not collapse!

You and your life, are more important and have more worth to God than food, clothes, birds or else, because
only you are created in the image of God, therefore, God will provide.

God created us, and designed us to be with needs. Our needs are his idea. Therefore, he has
promised to take care of us.

God feeds the birds, but he does not place worms in their nests.

God gives you food, but you have to put it in your mouth.

God will provide you with clothes, but you have to dress yourself.

The fruit is on the tree, but it will not fall into your mouth, you have to stretch your hand, and
take it.

God cursed the ground, because of Adam's sin, so the financial curse came to man. But Jesus took the curse of the Law which is poverty for us, on the cross, and gave us his blessing. He took our curse, and gave us his blessing. Jesus came to preach the Gospel first to the poor!

Genesis 1:27,29, Psalm 128, Psalm 37:19, Psalm 118:25, Psalm 103:5, Matthew 6:3,4,11,25-34, 1 Timothy 6:8-10,17-19, Matthew 7:9,10,11, Ephessians 4:28, Mark 8:2,3,17-21, Psalm 25:13, Psalm 68, Matthew 15:32-38, Psalm 111:5, Psalm 112:3, Deuteronomy 10:18, Psalm 84:11, Psalm 127:1,2, Psalm 128, Proverbs 21:26, Proverbs 31:20, Acts 20:34, Luke 3:11, 14:12, Nehemiah 9:25, 17-20, Psalm 68:6,10, 1 Peter 5:7, Psalm 34:9,10, Psalm 33:19, Psalm 37:19, 25,26, Psalm 104:27

Greg J. · Jun 13, 2016

You do what God wants you to do. If he hasn't shown you what to do it could be for many reasons. One reason can be because we are subconsciously resisting a possibility because we don't like it. Another frequent reason is that we have not settled in our own minds what our options are. It is similar to being double-minded. (James 1:5-8) You can work out analytically what your options are that are in line with your natures (write them down and talk about them), then seek Jesus through prayer about what He wants or commands you to do and keep refining your list. Recognize that the Lord already knows what he wants you to do and has already gone before you to prepare the way. (Ephesians 2:10) If you think of something that you had not thought of before, add it to the list and keep seeking him in prayer and Bible reading.

Other people should be praying specific prayers for you as well. The Lord will be clearer if he commands you to do something that appears unwise on the surface to you (but it should not actually be unwise; it might just be unexpected). As in seeking the Lord for anything, sin can hinder you from hearing or being ready for his answer.

This is different than seeking what he thinks you should do (his opinion), and is different than seeking what you are supposed to do (as if you already have an identifiable obligation). Seek something in line with the faith that the Lord has given you. It might be something that gives you a little anxiety, but not something that makes you afraid.

Seek the Lord until you have a conviction and peace about one (or more) options. If you end up having a peace about more than one option, choose what you would like. Keep in mind that God will make a way and provide for you if you commit yourself to anything in good faith to him. After you have started down the road you've chosen, don't be shy in asking God for specific things you need to keep going. Consider your faith. How much have you experienced asking God for money to do something you want to do and had him deliver? How much faith do you have that He'll make things work out if you do your best (and keep seeking him for success)? Most of us have not been given a general form of faith for the former.

I previously posted an grossly oversimplified list of life priorities on this web site, which might help you get your options into more concrete form.
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/putting-things-in-proper-perspective.7949245/#post-69689688

Johnnz · Jun 15, 2016

Don't see work as a waste of time. That is an unhelpful dualism.

You might find 'Falling Upward' by Richard Rohr helpful. There is much more to times like you are experiencing than we can recognise. Get some income and don't see any work to negatively. In NT times many were slaves seeking to honour Jesus wh ere they were.

John
NZ

Razare · Jun 16, 2016

Sean Marah said:
Abbie and me find ourselves feeling depressed and low every day. We do not feel honoured, blessed or loved by our church. We love our church, we love Jesus and we love doing our passion which is working with young people. But we feel so out of place and so dishonoured, people want us to stay for free but offer nothing to help us live or support us personally...

The church is not your source, God is our source as Christians. You accept funds from people for ministry, when and only when they desire out of their hearts to give it to you. If they are obligated to give to you for what you're doing, that is evil and it's sin.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. - 2 Corinthians 9:7

When Abraham gave tithe to Melchizedek, Abraham was under no obligation to do this. He wanted to do it out of faith in God, and he was giving to God.

praying God will help us.

That's the solution. Pray, and believe he provides.

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. - Mark 11:24

This means believing you already have it, when you physically see that you do not have it. So if I see that I am poor, I do not go around telling people I am poor. Rather, I go around giving out of my poverty to others.

They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything--all she had to live on. - Mark 12:44

When you give out of poverty in faith, believing God has answered your prayer for provision in life, you do not stay poor.

We give, because we believe God has already provided for us to give, and if you're able to give anything at all, then certainly God gave it to you, and this has enabled you to give to others. When I was poor, I started giving. I might earn $140 per week, and sometimes I would give $50 of it to God in faith.

When I could not make a car payment, I would say "God generously provides all that I need, and I have plenty leftover to share with others." And I believed it. So when people would ask me for money to borrow from me, I would give it to them.

For the LORD your God will bless you as he has promised, and you will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. You will rule over many nations but none will rule over you. - Deuteronomy 15:6

And in my poverty I stuck to it. I earned 13k per year. 1 year after becoming a Christian and giving, I got a job earning 40k with bonuses and benefits. 2 years later I now earn 55k, and God has blessed my investments to go up more than doubling in one year.

When I tithe, I do not give under the covenant of the law, but under the covenant given to Abraham where he had tithed to Melchizedek. And because this covenant is superior, I reap superior harvests from faith. There is no penalty should I not give, but the blessings overcome me because I believe God. One of my failed investments, I repented to God about, and God made it increase over 1000%.

And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. - 2 Corinthians 9:8

And when you believe that without seeing it, you share. And sharing proves you believe it, and because you believed you have received when you do not see, this is faith, and God honors it through covenant, so that his supply overtakes you.

If you understand this, you'll be the one giving to your church supplying them, rather them supplying you.

God's with you!

Kit Sigmon · Jun 18, 2016

Sean Marah said:
Hey Everyone,

This is my first post so bear with me.

My fiancee and I are having a few issues with life and would love to get some advice and hear other peoples experiences!

In order to explain i will write two paragraphs, the problems i am facing and the problems by fiancee is facing.

ME
For the last three years i have been doing a degree in Theology, alongside this i have been running a youth ministry at my church as a vulunteer, which takes about 15-20 hours work a week. I finished my degree 2 weeks ago and have now found myself in massive limbo. Over the past year the church has been talking to me about possibly paying me once i had finished. I am passionate about youth work and feel that this is what i want to do for the rest of my life. Sadly, a week before finishing the degree the church leaders met with me and told they wouldn't be paying me, but would love me to stay and carry on doing what i am doing. This causes a huge dilemma for me, in 7 weeks time i am getting married and cannot provide financially. Also, youth ministry is what brings me life and the thought of having to waste 40 hours of my week working and then in my spare time doing what i love quite honest makes me feel ill.

My Fiancee (Abbie)
Abbie finished her degree a year ago (she got a 1st and the highest grade ever at her college) and has been working a job which treats her poorly and is not her passion. The church we are a part of have not invested into her at all. She is the most lovely, kind and intelligent person. She has pursued people and has received nothing back. She has been in a kind of deep sadness for a year a now.

Abbie and me find ourselves feeling depressed and low every day. We do not feel honoured, blessed or loved by our church. We love our church, we love Jesus and we love doing our passion which is working with young people. But we feel so out of place and so dishonoured, people want us to stay for free but offer nothing to help us live or support us personally... in 7 weeks time we need a place to live, but can't get one because i am yet to have a full time job, but i am looking frantically and praying God will help us. The only reason we would have loved to have been paid by our church is so we can truly be released serve young people. But we will not be able to give our best in our current circumstances. It kind of feels like we are not in community that values us.

We hate moaning, and most of the time we are the most happy people, but we are truly struggling... and the more i think about it: for good reasons.

What do we do? Has anyone gone through anything similar?

Sean Marah:

The first thing you do is pray about this situation and the next thing
you do is to keep doing your church duties while you awaiting on the
Lord to direct your steps.

Difficult situation happen, see about the resources in your town that are
available to you, don't be ashamed to seek help from outreach places like the
Salvation Army, they been a help to me and mine more than once when we
fell on hard times.
Not only are we to give/help our own family, church or the Salvation Army etc,
we should also not be ashamed to call upon those same resources when we
find ourselves in need.

A couple with 'church, work and life issues'.

New Member

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

New Member

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

Senior Veteran

Reading the Bible

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

God gave me a throne

Well-Known Member

Similar threads