The Law Stands, it condemns us all.
- Thread starter Razare
- Start date
Where is your scriptural reference?
Then when it is written out, each person can decide.
The problem is paraphrased scripture. List it out, full verses, no text added.
Let's see if you are right or wrong.
What you are missing is the ability to not put any of your own opinions into a post, but to only list and quote complete and exact scripture to make your point.
It's not that hard
Upvote
0
I don't think you know how to list scripture, so I will help you.
Which verses in these two books?
Upvote
0
There may be commands that are physically impossible to keep
-Men cant keep commands meant only for women
-Women cant keep commands only meant for me
-Some commands applied to kinds, priests, farmers only
-Many commands are only physically possible with a active Temple up
-And animal sacrifices are replaced by the blood of Christ
So its more of keeping commands that apply to you.
I personally think the Sabbath is hard to keep per the biblical requirements in our modern age: No work & no one to do work for you (Exodus 20), no pleasure of your own (Isaiah 56), which would mean no sports, no buying groceries, watching TV or doing anything that isnt Holy or focused on God for 24 hrs, no selling anything. With the way with our society setup and many businesses closed on Sunday it would be extremely inconvenient to drop everything you are doing for 1 entire day vs back in the OT days where they probably didnt have nearly as many things to do as we do now, maybe outside of more physical labor.
-Men cant keep commands meant only for women
-Women cant keep commands only meant for me
-Some commands applied to kinds, priests, farmers only
-Many commands are only physically possible with a active Temple up
-And animal sacrifices are replaced by the blood of Christ
So its more of keeping commands that apply to you.
I personally think the Sabbath is hard to keep per the biblical requirements in our modern age: No work & no one to do work for you (Exodus 20), no pleasure of your own (Isaiah 56), which would mean no sports, no buying groceries, watching TV or doing anything that isnt Holy or focused on God for 24 hrs, no selling anything. With the way with our society setup and many businesses closed on Sunday it would be extremely inconvenient to drop everything you are doing for 1 entire day vs back in the OT days where they probably didnt have nearly as many things to do as we do now, maybe outside of more physical labor.
Upvote
0
tzadik
Follower of the Messiah
- Nov 16, 2011
- 4,847
- 136
- 38
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Married
Isaiah 58 (I believe you were quoting) is in reference to Yom Kippur and not necessarily the weekly Shabbat.
However I do agree that society almost to a fault has made it so that keeping Sabbath on the day that God intended it is much harder. I think that will only get worse as lawlessness increases (Matthew 24:12). Looking forward to the day we will be keeping the Sabbath with the Saviour when He reigns among us!
Upvote
0
It would be bad because some Christians like to set every day apart from God, and if we could only do it on Sunday would be kind of disappointing.
I gave up TV back in April of 2015. I watch youtube videos that glorify God, or are not full of trash. With youtube, you pick what you watch so you can exercise good discrimination. When I visit with other people, I might watch their television with them in their home, but it doesn't occupy any of my daily time... and it is not good watching a lot of the time, I close my eyes, turn my head, or go do other things.
And it isn't inconvenient. For me, it is inconvenient to watch television... Think of it this way, I have to sit still in one place, dull my mind and heart, and intentionally listen to lies spoken by boastful hypocrites. Watching TV is a lot of work!!!
God has given me hobbies that I do with him. I am learning to grow mushrooms with God's help. I learn other stuff and do other things. It's a lot more fun than wasting my life away in front of a box.
Where people think the law is troublesome, is they are looking at it from sacrifice rather than blessing. Rather, scripture should always be seen from the viewpoint God intends to bless us and make us prosper. When you lose something like television, you gain something greater than television!
Upvote
0
He is the Sabbath of Sabbaths.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
He is the Jubile
Lev_25:9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
Lev_25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.
Lev_25:11 A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
Lev_25:12 For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.
Lev_25:13 In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession.
Lev_25:15 According to the number of years after the jubile thou shalt buy of thy neighbour, and according unto the number of years of the fruits he shall sell unto thee:
Lev_25:28 But if he be not able to restore it to him, then that which is sold shall remain in the hand of him that hath bought it until the year of jubile: and in the jubile it shall go out, and he shall return unto his possession.
Lev_25:30 And if it be not redeemed within the space of a full year, then the house that is in the walled city shall be established for ever to him that bought it throughout his generations: it shall not go out in the jubile.
Lev_25:31 But the houses of the villages which have no wall round about them shall be counted as the fields of the country: they may be redeemed, and they shall go out in the jubile.
Lev_25:33 And if a man purchase of the Levites, then the house that was sold, and the city of his possession, shall go out in the year of jubile: for the houses of the cities of the Levites are their possession among the children of Israel.
Lev_25:40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile:
Lev_25:50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.
Lev_25:52 And if there remain but few years unto the year of jubile, then he shall count with him, and according unto his years shall he give him again the price of his redemption.
Lev_25:54 And if he be not redeemed in these years, then he shall go out in the year of jubile, both he, and his children with him.
Lev_27:17 If he sanctify his field from the year of jubile, according to thy estimation it shall stand.
Lev_27:18 But if he sanctify his field after the jubile, then the priest shall reckon unto him the money according to the years that remain, even unto the year of the jubile, and it shall be abated from thy estimation.
Lev_27:21 But the field, when it goeth out in the jubile, shall be holy unto the LORD, as a field devoted; the possession thereof shall be the priest's.
Lev_27:23 Then the priest shall reckon unto him the worth of thy estimation, even unto the year of the jubile: and he shall give thine estimation in that day, as a holy thing unto the LORD.
Lev_27:24 In the year of the jubile the field shall return unto him of whom it was bought, even to him to whom the possession of the land did belong.
Num_36:4 And when the jubile of the children of Israel shall be, then shall their inheritance be put unto the inheritance of the tribe whereunto they are received: so shall their inheritance be taken away from the inheritance of the tribe of our fathers.
It is His Spirit that lives inside us every day of the week.
Therefore, the Lord of the Sabbath is always inside of us.
Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Act_8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Act_21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.
Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2Co_3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co_3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
It is this indwelling of the Holy Spirit that is the fulfillment of the Old covenant shadow of Sabbath Rest.
He is our Sabbath Rest, not one day per week, but every day of the week.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Great post. I live in the Sabbath, and live in the Jubilee! Awesome confirmation, I've believed it for a while now, but no one mentions it.
Working on the Sabbath is permitted, for Adam had been given God's rest, having been made on the 6th day, Adam worked inside God's rest on the 7th day. And this work was not burdensome but blessed.
We who live in the Sabbath, work not of toil of the fall of Adam, but work in Christ who redeemed us from the fall. I know not many believe this, but when I work, I get energy, not lose it. Tired is a fallen attitude of a corrupted world that I was freed from.
I don't live under the curses, and so I labor in God's rest.
Upvote
0
tzadik
Follower of the Messiah
- Nov 16, 2011
- 4,847
- 136
- 38
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Married
Your argument flawed from the beginning does not hold any water because the Sabbath was not created to EVER be a burden.
So any "liberty" or "freedom" given by the Messiah was not to "liberate" us from a day that He specifically created, set apart and sanctified as a special day for His people to meet and rejoice in Him.
What the Word DOES say that He is the Lord of the Sabbath. What the Word DOES say is that the Sabbath day is HIS Holy Day. Do you in all honesty feel like a believer and son of God is supposed to be liberated from His Holy day?
Exodus 31:13. "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, `You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
Leviticus 19:3, 30 "Every one of you shall reverence his mother and his father, and you shall keep My sabbaths; I am the LORD your God. You shall keep My sabbaths and revere My sanctuary; I am the LORD."
Leviticus 26:2, 43 "You shall keep My sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary; I am the LORD. For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes."
Isaiah 56:4, 6 "For thus says the LORD, "To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath and holds fast My covenant;"
Isaiah 58:13 "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot from doing your own pleasure on My holy day, and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, and honor it, desisting from your own ways, from seeking your own pleasure and speaking your own word,"
His Spirit living inside of us has nothing to do with whether or not we are to obey or disobey His physical commandments.
His Spirit inside of me does not make me not have to honor my parents.
His Spirit inside of me does not make me not have to love my neighbor.
On the contrary...it is because His Spirit is inside me that I am now empowered to correctly obey and live my life according to His Spiritual Word!
Perfect verse quoted.
His Spirit will guide us in ALL truth. not some truth. not 1/3 of the truth. but ALL of Truth.
Question: Are God's Law and commandments considered Truth?
Answer: Psalm 119:43, 142, 151, 150.
And do not take the Word of truth utterly out of my mouth, For I wait for Your ordinances.
Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Your Law is truth.
You are near, O LORD, and all Your commandments are truth.
The sum of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting.
God's Spirit leads us according to all of God's Word including the Law of God!
Ezekiel 36 further confirms this...
"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
tzadik
Follower of the Messiah
- Nov 16, 2011
- 4,847
- 136
- 38
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Married
If God's Spirit living inside of you "obeys and performs" commandments on your behalf, what commandments (if any) are you supposed to DO yourself?
Does God's Spirit living in side of you make it so that you don't have to physically obey any of God's commandments?
Where are you getting any of the above information from?
God says, remember His Holy Sabbath day and keep it sanctified. 6 days you should work, but not on the 7th.
You say "working is permitted on the Sabbath".
Jesus' death did not redeem us from the Father's commandments. He redeemed us from sin and death.
Upvote
0
Some of His commandments were not given to me.
It does not require me to follow the commandment given to Abraham for him to circumcise his male offspring.
In the same manner, it does not require me to follow the Sinai Sabbath, which was "added" 430 years "after" the Promise to Abraham and given to the children of Israel "until" the Seed could come to whom the promise was made.
It is finished, and symbolized by the temple veil being ripped in half.
.
Upvote
0
You will be judged by the law then, not grace. That is what God's Word says.
So you will be able to prove your own words to Christ on Judgement Day as He will hold you to the law you wish to be held to.
Upvote
0
Don't need it.
Jesus Himself called the New Covenant a new and BETTER covenant. Then fulfilled ALL of the law and gave us ONLY two NEW commandments.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
tzadik
Follower of the Messiah
- Nov 16, 2011
- 4,847
- 136
- 38
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Married
Unfortunately for you, the text clearly tells us that it's the Same Law (as God only has ONE set of Holy Instructions for His people) that will be used in the New Covenant; this time written on the hearts of the believers (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-28) "My Law (Torah)" is always translated as the one and only Instructions of the Father. There's no way around it.
God says do not profane God's name (Exodus 22:28). Do you?
God says hallow God's name (Leviticus 22:32). Do you?
God says "love God" (Deuteronomy 6:5). Do you?
God says "serve God" (Exodus 23:25). Do you?
God says "love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18). Do you?
God says "take care of the poor" (Deuteronomy 24:19-20). Do you?
God says "honor your father and mother" (Exodus 20:12). Do you?
God says "not to have sexual relations with relatives" (Leviticus 18:6). Do you?
God says "do not wrong others when you buy and sell" (Leviticus 25:14). Do you?
Upvote
0
tzadik
Follower of the Messiah
- Nov 16, 2011
- 4,847
- 136
- 38
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Married
Please show me in the Scriptures where He shows you which commandments are for Jewish believers and which ones are specifically only for Gentile believers.
Last time I checked it was one body, one Lord, one baptism, one faith, one Spirit.
Either you are a son of God or your are not. Either you are part of God's Kingdom, subject to All of His Kingdom's rules or you are on the outside looking in.
There is a before and after. (Ephesians 2)
Before:
1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR;18for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Actually Jesus told us what commandments are part of the New Covenant, so I do not need your list, but thank you anyways.
If the Torah is the only law of the Father, are you saying that the Father and the Son are in disagreement? Or that Jesus words carry less weight?
Also, God has written His entire Word on our hearts. That includes all of scripture, but He left us with two commandments.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Nov 21, 2008
- 51,331
- 10,600
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- SDA
- Marital Status
- Married
The Law that "Condemns all" Romans 3:19-22 also "defines sin" 1 John 3:4 - and includes the TEN Commandments (Eph 6:2) -- and since it still "condemns all the world" -- it "still exists.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
