discipline

Yesterday at 07:38 AM kimber1 said this in Post #1

Just a small request for all you parents out there. I am a babysitter and the one thing I have noticed that is increasing rapidly is the amount of child ruling parent homes. letting your child do whatever they want just to save you from hearing them cry or throw a tantrum makes my job so unbelievably hard!! I pray for patience on a constant basis!!   My children are no where near perfect but they do know how far they can push mom's buttons before they end up in the corner!! I just want to remind you parents that the Bible does say " He whospares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him promptly." Not trying to be mean or anything! I'm not saying go out and beat your kids but children need limits and rules in order to grow into godly adults and not setting boundaries when they are young will cause major problems in the long run! Jus tsomehting to think about!!!

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We have some friends that do not control their kids, or discipline thier kids. We hate watching them. Their kids just run their parents into the ground. Those kids are hard on our kids, too rough, mean etc.
My wife and I have found that parents who do NOT work on a parenting style (ie: effectice parenting, Babywise, or just James Dobson) thier kids are just WILD! That is what Babywise call a "child centered home". They do not listen to the parents, and generally a pain.

A child centered home is when the child basically runs the house and gets everything he/she wants. A parent centered home is when the child is respectul of authority, and others.


Peace

FaithtoFaith... It sounds like he's trying to find his boundaries. He is happy when you have the boundaries fully in place. But when he starts pushing them do you keep the line drawn with consequences? or are you avoiding a fight and allowing him to get away with little things? This is my hardest issue. My kids are great and we've gone through our battles but even with my 10yo boy when I let him 'get away' with little things I notice the attitude slips a bit and he is crabby with his family. When the boundaries are fully in place he's the happiest kid ever.

I notice that when you 'use the rod' efficiently then you don't have to use it often Praise the Lord!!! Setting boundaries and NOT budging at all!!!

A couple of books I'd recommend are Bringing_Up_Boys by Dobson, The_Stongwilled_Child by Dobson and You_Can't_make_me by Cynthia Tobias (she's also been a guest with Dobson a few times and you may be able to listen to her online - www.family.org ). I know you can order her tapes there - they only keep the most recent shows available for listening online.

I also like the No Greater Joy ministry - they have a website and have some great resources. PM me if you want more info on them. (I'm reading To_Train_Up_A_Child right now - The ministry is run by the Pearls)

I'm there with you! I had a screamer/fit thrower and I had a hold your breath till you pass out kid. <whew> And I want more??? LOL Kids Rock!!!

ha you thhink parenting little ones is hard !!. as my step-granfather used to say--when they are little they have little problems and when they are big they have big problems.

Today at 10:49 AM Beckijhn said this in Post #22

FaithtoFaith... It sounds like he's trying to find his boundaries. He is happy when you have the boundaries fully in place. But when he starts pushing them do you keep the line drawn with consequences? or are you avoiding a fight and allowing him to get away with little things? This is my hardest issue. My kids are great and we've gone through our battles but even with my 10yo boy when I let him 'get away' with little things I notice the attitude slips a bit and he is crabby with his family. When the boundaries are fully in place he's the happiest kid ever.

I notice that when you 'use the rod' efficiently then you don't have to use it often Praise the Lord!!! Setting boundaries and NOT budging at all!!!

A couple of books I'd recommend are Bringing_Up_Boys by Dobson, The_Stongwilled_Child by Dobson and You_Can't_make_me by Cynthia Tobias (she's also been a guest with Dobson a few times and you may be able to listen to her online - www.family.org ). I know you can order her tapes there - they only keep the most recent shows available for listening online.

I also like the No Greater Joy ministry - they have a website and have some great resources. PM me if you want more info on them. (I'm reading To_Train_Up_A_Child right now - The ministry is run by the Pearls)

I'm there with you! I had a screamer/fit thrower and I had a hold your breath till you pass out kid. <WHEW>And I want more??? LOL Kids Rock!!!

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It's funny that should mention keeping the boundaries.&nbsp; I do try to stay consistent, but like last night, we are working on a new house really late and he was so tired.&nbsp; I couldn't do anything right.&nbsp; I didn't want to spank him, because I felt like he wasn't able to convey what was really bothering him, exhaustion.&nbsp; But, then he didn't hit me either last night.&nbsp; That's the thing that really get's me is when he tries to slap at me or push me away or kick at me.&nbsp; That usually don't make without getting a swift swat on the behind!

My husband is not so quick to discipline.&nbsp; We came from totally different families.&nbsp; But, I've noticed the baby pushing him to his limits lately too.&nbsp; So, it won't be long before he will probably get his first paddling from his dad.

I've never used PM before, so I will have to give a try.&nbsp; I think I will get the James Dobson books.&nbsp; I've heard a few co-workers talk about a series they did at church on raising boys.

Thanks!

Today at 10:54 AM Didymus said this in Post #23

ha you thhink parenting little ones is hard !!. as my step-granfather used to say--when they are little they have little problems and when they are big they have big problems.

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Yeah, we won't get into my 17 year old at this time.&nbsp; That would be a whole other post!&nbsp; Praise God that He is in control!&nbsp; I'm too tired to do it!&nbsp; LOL

I so agree with you,I think some parents have forgotten how to be a parent!One thing&nbsp; I am constantly on my daughter about is ,you will show respect to others and treat them in a manner&nbsp; that a christian would.I have kids come in&nbsp;to&nbsp; &nbsp;my suday school class and their behavior is appaling.&nbsp; We as christians need to do a better job as parents! God bless you I will keep you in my prayers!

I hate children calling me by my first name and have tried to dicourage it but their parents tell them it s ok--I think it weakens the respect chain. That s one thing the schools still enforce anyway. i also hate it when you speak to a child because the parent isn t around and YOU ge rebuked in front of the child by another adult !! This is one reason I stopped going to one church. It was the kids can do what they want because we don t want them to stop coming to church.

I have big problems with Babywise, Dobson, and especially with the Pearls. I have read their literature, and I feel it promotes abuse. How can you expect a child to be respectful if you do not respect them first? A child who obeys out of fear is not showing respect – just fear.

Children should know they deserve the same respect they are expected to show to everyone else. Grown-ups don’t magically deserve more respect because they are grown-up. All people, children included, deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. My children both receive and demonstrate respect.


Some alternative books on discipline, all written by Christians, are:

The Discipline Book - by William Sears

The Complete Book of Christian Parenting & Child Care: A Medical & Moral Guide to Raising Happy, Healthy Children - also by Dr. Sears

Biblical Parenting - by Crystal Lutten

Families Where Grace is in Place - by Jeffery Vanvonderen

Kids are Worth It – by Barbara Coloroso

All of these books were written by Christian men and women, and all of them condone a mutually respectful model of discipline.

Hi Evening,

I haven't read any of the books you mentioned but I think if you find something that truly works and your are raising truly obendient, respectful, honest kids, then good for you.

I believe in using the rod and honestly haven't met a child that is 'reasoned with' and 'respected' in the way you've mentioned it, that has much respect for their own parent or anyone else.

I think a lot depends on the child. My twin was very good and never got spanked. I on the other hand was quite lively but when i outgrew spanking my mother was at a loss . Fortunely for her i was just lively not bad

I also babysit and I can tell you the children I watch are totally different at home then here. I am not harsh by any means but I tell the children up front my rules and that nothing else will be tolerated. I have seen children hitting their parents, running from their parents and cussing at their parents. What gets me is when the parent says oh so and so thats not nice and that is it. I have and will continue to put a stop to that behavior. I have to tell these children repeatly that you dont talk or act that way towards the parent. I have also gotten up and gave the child a swat on the butt. That usually does the trick if not they can always stand in the corner. Most of the time its just the only way the child can get the parents attention, which totally breaks my heart. Though I do not let them use that as a reason to disrespect a parent in front of me. I have also been known to call a child down when we have met up in public.

Didymus - I think you are right. It does depend on the child. My oldest was rarely ever spanked but my second child was a 'strong-willed' child. I think one of us would have met our maker if I hadn't found resources like Dobson. I was totally at a loss. How can a child act like this? Why would she do this? What is wrong with her? What is wrong with me? AARRGGHHH!!

But Praise God she's doing great now. All of my children have had heart issues - character issues - behavior issues over the years and I'm sure there are more to come, but I'm learning that each of them are different in spirit!

It is possible to deal with defiance or disrespect without hitting a child, or without publically humiliating him. It just takes more energy and more creativity to stay on top of the situation.

I have heard various interpretations of my style a million times: "You are idealistic. He is still too young to give you real trouble. Wait until you have 2 kids. Just wait until you have a strong willed child."

Well, I've been a mother for 6 and 1/2 years. I have 2 *very* strong willed, very bright, and very challenging boys. And guess what? I haven't changed my mind yet. Maybe someday I will meet my match, but I'm sure you can understand why I no longer take much stock in comments like that.

There was a short time that I did spank my older son. I was falling back into the pattern of how I was raised. I wanted to do differently, but I had no idea how. My son (who was breastfed, carried, and never left to cry through infancy) was becoming distant and angry as a toddler. The more "strict" I became, the more he pulled back and the more set and determined his negative attitude became. Yes, he obeyed me, but his anger was breaking my heart. I decided I would do differently, and I started reading everything I could get my hands on.

I read the books I listed above, I read Dobson, Pearl, and I read Ezzo. And I read books by secular authors -- psychiatrists, etc. When I read the books by Dobson, Pearl, and Ezzo I kept coming back to the same thought, "This is not how Jesus would treat my child." Jesus was perfect, and I am far from it. So the chances of me becoming abusive are that much greater.

Believe me, I can understand feeling tired and angry. I can understand feeling pressure to present a well-behaved child in public, who reflects well on me. But non of those things matter as much as my child's inner wellbeing.

The problem with demanding that children "respect their elders" is that is just too easy to slip into a pattern of defending my ego and preserving my sense of superiority. When I do that, I loose touch with the issues that are *actually* bothering my child.

When you say 'hitting' I get the visual of someone smacking their kid around. I also hear you say publically humiliating and see the one lady we've all seen in our grocery store telling her kid how rotten he is and destroying his self worth.

But moving on to godly discipline, I don't know of any child that's been 'reasoned' with as the only form of correction that is anything short of extreme strong willed or in most cases a family running brat.

Most of the training-a-child advice is given in the Proverbs written by THE wisest man ever recorded - King Solomon. We're on our way out the door but here are a couple of verses.

Prov 19:18

Prov 13:24

Prov 22:15

Prov 23:13-14

Prov 29:15

Prov 29:17

But let me add that raising our children (should) has a lot to do with love and discipline and little to do with physical punishment when it is applied in a manner according to God's will.

*ducking from shoes being thrown* lol

In Christ

Beck -- I never throw shoes! You're quite safe.

I already said that "reasoning" is not the only thing I do.

Many parents think that the goal of discipline is the make their kids "be good." According to this logic, the end justify the means. I think this is short sighted.

The goal of discipline is to raise strong and humane people. The "means" we use are what influences their thinking about what it means to love and be loved. The "means" are more important, and more within our control than the "end." Indeed, the end is not a tangible thing. We are all growing and learning, all working to develop our humanity and our strength.

To use spanking and punishement as a means to an end incorporates violence and force into their developing view of what it means to love and be loved. Everything we do to our child contributes to a foundational knowlege in them of "what relationships are like." I do NOT want my child to grow up believing that hitting or being hit is EVER an appropriate part of a loving relationship, no matter how controlled, no matter how loving the intentions, and no matter how "deserved" it might seem.

There is a great book called "For Your Own Good" about Nazi Germany, and how the child rearing practises of the era lead to a country full of people predisposed to "obey orders." It is an extreme example, I realize. But it really got me thinking. I don't want to raise "obedient" people. I want to raise Thinking, bold, and strong people who are not afraid to challenge authorities when authorities are clearly wrong. This means that I have to give my children room to practise being that sort of person, room to make mistakes, and room to experiment. Childhood is their practise time. My job is to protect, comfort and guide them when I can.

I will check out the book you mentioned about Nazi Germany and thanks for not throwing shoes!

I know God is loving and is the ultimate example of what a relationship is. He does punish where it is required however, and we don't say he is mean, we say he is just.

There are times of humility (public included) in his methods of correcting us, but if we were not proud he would not bring us down to a humbled state. Therefore the humility felt is a creation of our own decisions. How he humbles us is within his design and his will. It is not a destructive correction and there is always love. He will always comfort us.

When my children were punished it was never that I was mad at them and I punished them. It was that they know the rules, they know the consequences, and what punishment is received is based on their actions. Being good is not the end all be all of children's behavior but it is not a bad goal nor a wrong one. Neither is it the end justifying the means. It is a social behavior that is expected and required, the opposite of which is rewarded with consequences that are set and known full well before the incident occurs.

I give my children room to make mistakes, I also give them room to be themselves. I actually have less hands on guidance with my kids these days than most people I know because they have been raised to make the correct decision (whether they make it or not) and know the consequences to bad choices. I can trust them to buy their own clothes (modest) go wherever with their buddies, hang at the mall, whatever. They aren't going to embarrass me or behave badly. Their heart attitude is evident in their behaviour.

As to the situation in Nazi Germany (being psychologically prepared for a dictator) I doubt much of it has to do with whether children were spanked or not but a lot to do with the failed recovery plans after WWI and the great depression that occured there. When your family is starving and someone comes along and offers help you will take it and most likely believe what they tell you.

All of Gods word is true and correct. I won't take part and leave the rest. I will use the rod if and when it is needed, and through that will rarely need to use it.

In Christ,
Becki