Pre-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

Razare

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Here's some scriptures:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Revelation 18:23 - and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.

Daniel 9:27 - Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
(Even if applicable to 70 AD to some extent, it certainly means that God measures the end of the Roman kingdom, both Rome I and Rome II, with a measured week that is 7 years.)

Genesis 29:27 - "fulfill her week" ... the Church is required to have 1 ceremonial week with the bridegroom.

Daniel's Statue
Daniel2Dream.jpg


Daniel describes these kingdoms as beasts in Daniel 7.

Daniel 7:11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

Revelation 17:8 - The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.

So then Daniel lists 5 kingdoms of men, but only 4 beasts. The 5th kingdom is really all the beasts combined. The sea he rises out of, representing the nations of the world. That kingdom is destroyed by Christ.

The 10 toes of Daniel's statue, represent the 10 kings that reign for 1 hour in Revelation.

Christ returns, and certainly he is with us 1 week, and that week is our ceremonial marriage. Revelation lists a 7 year period implicitly.

1260 + 40 + 1260 = 2560 (2560 / 365 = 7.01 solar years)
Or 1260 + 1260 = 7 lunar years

It should be noted, in Revelation it is the fall of Babylon, which is not what Rome I was, marking them as 2 separate events. Rome is destroyed in Daniel 7, but not Babylon.

In Daniel, Babylon is permitted to continue to live, and is later destroyed at some other time, so even if Daniel 9 has the 70th week fulfilled in 70 AD, we then still have the issue that it does not fulfill the end of the Babylonian system according to Daniel 7. This destruction is then accomplished as a separate event in Revelation, which implies also implies 1 week or 7 years. The implication of 7 years being important for other reasons besides Daniel's 70th week, such as marriage and then also the Shemitah and year of Jubilee.
 
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Razare

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By the way, what do you guys think of...

And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. - Malachi 3:17

Perry Stone teaches that the raptured church are the Jewels.

Not 100% certain of this myself, what do you guys think?
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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By the way, what do you guys think of...

And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. - Malachi 3:17

Perry Stone teaches that the raptured church are the Jewels.

Not 100% certain of this myself, what do you guys think?
I think blood bought, born gain, Holy Ghost filled believers can take this promise "to the bank" so to speak. Yes ,I agree that the Church is the pearl of great price.
 
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Psalm3704

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By the way, what do you guys think of...

And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. - Malachi 3:17

Perry Stone teaches that the raptured church are the Jewels.

Not 100% certain of this myself, what do you guys think?

It sounds right.

My primary translation is the NKJV but whenever I come across a scripture I'm not 100% certain reading it in the NKJV, I cross reference it with numerous others translations along with the greek and hebrew till I understand it.

This is how it reads in the NLT, GNT and ERV.

Malachi 3:13-17 New Living Translation (NLT)
13 “You have said terrible things about me,” says the Lord.

“But you say, ‘What do you mean? What have we said against you?’

14 “You have said, ‘What’s the use of serving God? What have we gained by obeying his commands or by trying to show the Lord of Heaven’s Armies that we are sorry for our sins?15 From now on we will call the arrogant blessed. For those who do evil get rich, and those who dare God to punish them suffer no harm.’”

The Lord’s Promise of Mercy
16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke with each other, and the Lord listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and always thought about the honor of his name.

17 “They will be my people,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. “On the day when I act in judgment, they will be my own special treasure. I will spare them as a father spares an obedient child.

Malachi 3:13-17 Good News Translation (GNT)
God's Promise of Mercy

13 “You have said terrible things about me,” says the Lord. “But you ask, ‘What have we said about you?’ 14 You have said, ‘It's useless to serve God. What's the use of doing what he says or of trying to show the Lord Almighty that we are sorry for what we have done? 15 As we see it, proud people are the ones who are happy. Evil people not only prosper, but they test God's patience with their evil deeds and get away with it.’”

16 Then the people who feared theLord spoke to one another, and theLord listened and heard what they said. In his presence, there was written down in a book a record of those who feared the Lord and respected him. 17 “They will be my people,” says the Lord Almighty. “On the day when I act, they will be my very own. I will be merciful to them as parents are merciful to the children who serve them.

Malachi 3:13-17 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Special Time of Judgment
13 The Lord says, “You said cruel things to me.”

But you ask, “What did we say about you?”

14 You said, “It is useless to worship God. We did what the Lord All-Powerful told us, but we didn’t gain anything. We cried like people at a funeral to show we were sorry for our sins, but it didn’t help. 15 We think proud people are happy. Evil people succeed. They do evil things to test God’s patience, and God does not punish them.”

16 Then the Lord’s followers spoke with each other, and the Lord listened to them. There is a book in front of him. In that book are the names of his followers. They are the people who honor the Lord’s name.

17 The Lord said, “They belong to me. I will be kind to them. Parents are very kind to their children who obey them. In the same way I will be kind to my followers.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=malachi%203%3A13-17&version=NLT;GNT;ERV









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Razare

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I want to share this out of love to all of you. It is a word I have heard from God, through a minister. When God speaks to me this way, I know it's him.

I started to study when the rapture would be last year. I learned a lot. I believe the church will know or be expecting when it happens.

But what the church is missing, is something as big as the rapture. It's the greatest thing to occur since Jesus Christ came to Earth. And in fact, Jesus said it would be greater than what he did. This great thing must happen before Christ returns.

God made his church into his temple on Earth! The Lord God dwells in us, and dances over us. When we enter a room, it lights up with the glory of God, blessings follow before us and trail after us to all we meet. When the Ark came to the house of Obed-Edom, his household was blessed!

That Ark of the Covenant, lives in our heart and flows out from us... because God made us his temple on Earth.

God gave us prophecy in the old testament for the church... but it was always hidden. God hid the church inside the Old Testament, but we see us in there! Joel 2:16 mentions the bride. While it certainly refers to Jewish brides, Jewish brides are a type of Christ's bride. And the two become one, God and man, because a Christian is married with Christ, so they are one flesh and body. So we do see types of the bride in the OT, and it is us.

Also, we see types of us when it refers to God's temple! Because we are the temple. What does God say in regard to his temple?

The glory of this present house will be greater than the glory of the former house,' says the LORD Almighty. 'And in this place I will grant peace,' declares the LORD Almighty." - Haggai 2:9

God is a God of increase! He is a God of outdoing what occurred in the past. If there were blessings in the past, then there are more blessings in the future!

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. - 2 Corinthians 3:18

Before the coming of that day, the day of the Lord, comes the greatest time the Earth has ever seen since Adam lived. Times greater than when Christ walked the Earth. Greater than when his Apostles preached the gospel!

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. - John 14:12

The greater works have been available, and Peter began them when his shadow healed the sick who lined the streets. Those who touched Christ were healed, but when Peter walked by, they were healed by the glory of the Lord upon him.

But greater times than this are coming. God prophesied to this to the church, that he is a God of increase, and that there are former and later rains in Israel. So too, there is the glory of the later temple of God, and this glory surpasses the glory of the former.

It will be so, that the God of Increase shall increase his bride by grace, so that this grace is like an up-welling in our hearts, and overflow of Christ through us. Greater miracles than were ever performed on Earth will be done in the name of Jesus, and because of these signs and wonders will be the greatest revival on Earth. Yet unlike the revivals of times gone by, that were tainted with legalism, man's effort, and doctrines that held us back from the glory of God, the final revival of Christ's Bride will be a revival of faith, hope, and love as Christ ordained it.

And a revival of faith, hope and love, by God's grace will be like when Paul preached to the nations... yet greater because the later glory will outdo that of the former. Then in victory, the church will leave the Earth, called up to be with Christ.

It is God's will none perish. It is God's will there be no one left when this happens. God's prophets have prophesied otherwise, but God can change destiny. Hezekiah was ordained to die, but he sought God, and God granted him 15 more years rewriting the future. As we look to the coming of Christ, we should also look to the ministry he has set before us in the last days. The greatest move of God is coming to Earth, as prophesied by Tommy Hicks in 1961.

 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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I want to share this out of love to all of you. It is a word I have heard from God, through a minister. When God speaks to me this way, I know it's him.

I started to study when the rapture would be last year. I learned a lot. I believe the church will know or be expecting when it happens.

But what the church is missing, is something as big as the rapture. It's the greatest thing to occur since Jesus Christ came to Earth. And in fact, Jesus said it would be greater than what he did. This great thing must happen before Christ returns.

God made his church into his temple on Earth! The Lord God dwells in us, and dances over us. When we enter a room, it lights up with the glory of God, blessings follow before us and trail after us to all we meet. When the Ark came to the house of Obed-Edom, his household was blessed!

That Ark of the Covenant, lives in our heart and flows out from us... because God made us his temple on Earth.

God gave us prophecy in the old testament for the church... but it was always hidden. God hid the church inside the Old Testament, but we see us in there! Joel 2:16 mentions the bride. While it certainly refers to Jewish brides, Jewish brides are a type of Christ's bride. And the two become one, God and man, because a Christian is married with Christ, so they are one flesh and body. So we do see types of the bride in the OT, and it is us.

Also, we see types of us when it refers to God's temple! Because we are the temple. What does God say in regard to his temple?

The glory of this present house will be greater than the glory of the former house,' says the LORD Almighty. 'And in this place I will grant peace,' declares the LORD Almighty." - Haggai 2:9

God is a God of increase! He is a God of outdoing what occurred in the past. If there were blessings in the past, then there are more blessings in the future!

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. - 2 Corinthians 3:18

Before the coming of that day, the day of the Lord, comes the greatest time the Earth has ever seen since Adam lived. Times greater than when Christ walked the Earth. Greater than when his Apostles preached the gospel!

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. - John 14:12

The greater works have been available, and Peter began them when his shadow healed the sick who lined the streets. Those who touched Christ were healed, but when Peter walked by, they were healed by the glory of the Lord upon him.

But greater times than this are coming. God prophesied to this to the church, that he is a God of increase, and that there are former and later rains in Israel. So too, there is the glory of the later temple of God, and this glory surpasses the glory of the former.

It will be so, that the God of Increase shall increase his bride by grace, so that this grace is like an up-welling in our hearts, and overflow of Christ through us. Greater miracles than were ever performed on Earth will be done in the name of Jesus, and because of these signs and wonders will be the greatest revival on Earth. Yet unlike the revivals of times gone by, that were tainted with legalism, man's effort, and doctrines that held us back from the glory of God, the final revival of Christ's Bride will be a revival of faith, hope, and love as Christ ordained it.

And a revival of faith, hope and love, by God's grace will be like when Paul preached to the nations... yet greater because the later glory will outdo that of the former. Then in victory, the church will leave the Earth, called up to be with Christ.

It is God's will none perish. It is God's will there be no one left when this happens. God's prophets have prophesied otherwise, but God can change destiny. Hezekiah was ordained to die, but he sought God, and God granted him 15 more years rewriting the future. As we look to the coming of Christ, we should also look to the ministry he has set before us in the last days. The greatest move of God is coming to Earth, as prophesied by Tommy Hicks in 1961.


Amen!:amen:
 
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Psalm3704

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I just finished posting this on another thread but if anyone new to prophecy who are looking for scriptures that support a Pre-Trib rapture, here's three.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.


.
Isaiah 26:19 - 27:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.

20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.


1 In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
Leviathan that twisted serpent;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.


.
Hebrews 12:22-29 New King James Version (NKJV)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,”indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.











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Razare

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Does anyone know what Gold, Bronze, Iron, and Clay Symbolize in scripture?

Silver, I did learn. Keseph in Hebrew, which is desire... with silver there is hopes of the flesh, and hopes of the spirit. Sinful Desire vs. Godly Desire. Vain Imagination vs. Hopeful Imagination. Interestingly, from culture we learn "every cloud has a silver lining" and while culture is not our guide, this Biblical truth leaked up through culture with the right interpretation... that silver would represent hope... just that in scripture we know there are evil hopes and good hopes of God.

I have been trying to meditate on the materials that build the statue of Daniel so I could learn all of them. I know that clay is brittle of course.

Also, did the Medes and Persians have 10 kings? 10 provinces? They had 2 arms, and each arm would have had five fingers? Just curious. 10 toes is outlined in Revelation as 10 kings that rule for 1 hour.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Does anyone know what Gold, Bronze, Iron, and Clay Symbolize in scripture?

Silver, I did learn. Keseph in Hebrew, which is desire... with silver there is hopes of the flesh, and hopes of the spirit. Sinful Desire vs. Godly Desire. Vain Imagination vs. Hopeful Imagination. Interestingly, from culture we learn "every cloud has a silver lining" and while culture is not our guide, this Biblical truth leaked up through culture with the right interpretation... that silver would represent hope... just that in scripture we know there are evil hopes and good hopes of God.

I have been trying to meditate on the materials that build the statue of Daniel so I could learn all of them. I know that clay is brittle of course.

Also, did the Medes and Persians have 10 kings? 10 provinces? They had 2 arms, and each arm would have had five fingers? Just curious. 10 toes is outlined in Revelation as 10 kings that rule for 1 hour.

Heres an interesting site on the subject.

http://www.trackingbibleprophecy.com/antichrist.php
 
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Razare

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Good website, that's actually one of my favorite sites for research and getting their subject matter correct. It's the best resource I have found online. I didn't know they had done a study on the materials!! Thanks!

PS - I read it, but I did not have what I was looking for. I get that the materials represent those kingdoms, and it was also good to make sure to include Egypt and Assyria which are not parts of the statue.... but I was more looking for symbolism of the materials because it applies to many other verses such as:

Instead of bronze I will bring you gold, and silver in place of iron. Instead of wood I will bring you bronze, and iron in place of stones. I will make peace your governor and well-being your ruler. - Isaiah 60:17

Kind of makes me think Daniel's statue was standing on wood! But who knows on that.
 
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Razare

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Something I figured out yesterday... 10 toes on Daniel's statue represent 10 kings that reign for 1 hour in the final days.

What about the 10 fingers? If the statue has 10 toes, it has 10 fingers as well. Then I found them when I was thinking about it!!!

Esther 9:7 - They also killed Parshandatha, Dalphon, Aspatha, 8 Poratha, Adalia, Aridatha, 9 Parmashta, Arisai, Aridai, and Vaizatha— 10 the ten sons of Haman son of Hammedatha, the enemy of the Jews. But they did not take any plunder.

These leaders were appointed for 1 hour in the Persian kingdom, and were destroyed.

Then also, Esther has a strange thing she does in her 2nd day revenge. After the 10 sons of Haman are killed in vs. 7, she orders they be killed again in vs. 13: 13 Then Esther said, “If it pleases the king, let it be granted to the Jews who are in Shushan to do again tomorrow according to today’s decree, and let Haman’s ten sons be hanged on the gallows.”

She ordered the deaths of men already dead!!!! But you see, she was doing something of prophecy...

She ordered the hanging of the 10 fingers, but in the day after, the hanging of 10 toes perhaps?!??!?

10 Nazi War Criminals Hanged: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nazi-war-criminals-executed

Encoded in the Esther passage of these 10 men, it alludes to the year this would happen: http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Bible-Code-Ten-Sons-Haman


... Yet! If the 10 fingers were the 10 sons of Haman, and the 10 toes the 10 Nazi War Generals, maybe we got an issue? We would be drifting off into the prophetic twilight zone as far as I can tell because Christ was supposed to come back some years ago. It's an interesting thought.

However, it's enough to consider whether those were the 10 kings, and Hitler was the anti-Christ. Really, though, how I interpret it, the anti-Christ is really the "anti-Semite" since the church is in heaven who fully accept the realization of who Christ is. (But we weren't in heaven in this way of looking at it. o_O)

Maybe satan was trying to do it early? Seems odd. Seems odd we would have what essentially passes as a fulfillment of 10 kings prophesied by Esther, who would probably be the same 10 final kings. Yet, the Esther prophecy is not fully explained as there are two tav's and one is not really needed.

Just what I have been thinking about lately.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Maybe satan was trying to do it early? Seems odd. Seems odd we would have what essentially passes as a fulfillment of 10 kings prophesied by Esther, who would probably be the same 10 final kings. Yet, the Esther prophecy is not fully explained as there are two tav's and one is not really needed.

Just what I have been thinking about lately.

Very interesting. Wasn't Saddam hanged too. I guess he could be a modern day Haman.
 
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I would say fingers on the statue in the vision would have been seen, but they weren't mentioned, as the toes on the feet of iron and clay mixture were mentioned, so they are not so significant as the toes. I don't think I will change minds in this about eschatology, but I do agree Christ will come and take all of us who really are believers up to be with him, to not be with those with the wrath of Yahweh God coming to them, though we can still see more troubles coming to our world ahead of all this.
 
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Razare

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I would say fingers on the statue in the vision would have been seen, but they weren't mentioned, as the toes on the feet of iron and clay mixture were mentioned, so they are not so significant as the toes.

You actually learn a lot more about the Bible if you don't limit yourself to what is mentioned.

For example, if a verse just mentions a fig tree, the implication is that fig trees can have fruit. And if we realize a fig tree can have fruit, we understand something about God's word even if that verse fails to mention it.

God crafted symbolic objects he uses with precision, so that all their normal qualities, represent truths from God's word. Like for example, I do not suppose Daniel's statue has a zit, or even what color eyes it could have had if it were a real man... that's hyperbole, but I would consider it does have fingers. Perhaps I would consider that it's head has facial features, while it's torso has different features.

And sometimes as I wander down those paths of meditating on God's word, I wonder if I am going too far down a given path. Sometimes I just decide to let that one go, and if God wants to reveal it to me, he can.

But that I meditate on the symbolism and ask questions is how God gives me the understanding.
 
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Razare

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Perry Stone recently had a good one about the stones and the devil.

The devil has 9 Jewels in Ezekiel 28:

You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.


12 Jewels of Jerusalem (including New Jerusalem):

stones.jpg


Sardius = Ruby .. similar in appearance, even if not exactly the same

So if we research Chrysolite, Amethyst, Agate, there we learn something big out of God's word. What those jewels symbolize.
 
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Razare

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A person who has taught me a lot at our church, like he instructs my pastor even, because he's a visiting pastor from down south who went to bible school with my pastor...

He was telling us that he's not pre-tribulation rapture. Sounds like he used to be until he studied it a great deal.

One of his main points was that only the US church really believes in pre-tribulation rapture. Now, he is trying to counter a false doctrine I have seen with pre-trib rapture types... "Let's hide until Christ delivers us from this evil world!" ... instead of doing what Christ commanded us, which is to make disciples of all the nations.

What do you know about it? Is pre-trib rapture not popular outside the USA?
 
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What do you know about it? Is pre-trib rapture not popular outside the USA?

I believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture. I do all I can to bring the Kingdom of God to people while I am here. I don't know what other countries think. I hold to my own belief. I know a lot of people believe in post-trib. This is a pre-trib safe-house where pre-trib pov is discussed. You have to take this discussion to another thread.
 
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A person who has taught me a lot at our church, like he instructs my pastor even, because he's a visiting pastor from down south who went to bible school with my pastor...

He was telling us that he's not pre-tribulation rapture. Sounds like he used to be until he studied it a great deal.

One of his main points was that only the US church really believes in pre-tribulation rapture. Now, he is trying to counter a false doctrine I have seen with pre-trib rapture types... "Let's hide until Christ delivers us from this evil world!" ... instead of doing what Christ commanded us, which is to make disciples of all the nations.

What do you know about it? Is pre-trib rapture not popular outside the USA?
The answer means nothing. It does not matter what other people think: what we want to know is what God thinks about it.

Sorry to tell you, but your friend is teaching false doctrine: plain and simple. Jesus will come for His church before the 70th week begins.
 
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