The 144,000

AlasBabylon · May 31, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
Genetic purity? That's an interesting concept to consider after hundreds of generations.

Like Noah who was "perfect in his generations" [Genesis 6:9] while the other "sons of God"
who married "daughters of men" were not... the reason the Bible is filled with genealogies
is because God's chosen people, Israel, were supposed to be separate from all other people
[Deuteronomy 7:6 Deuteronomy 14:2.] That did not always happen... in the "days of Noah"
when God saved only Noah and his family... and after the Babylonian captivity when Ezra
rebuked those who sinned by taking strange wives and those who transgressed put away
their strange wives and children [Ezra 9 Ezra 10 Nehemiah 9:2.]

Btw... even the individual 12 tribes of Israel lived separately... each in his own territory.
Under King David... the 12 tribes were united but remained separate with their own identity.
In Revelation 21:12 New Jerusalem has 12 gates one for each of the 12 tribes of Israel...
that New Jerusalem has 12 gates instead of one big gate infers the 12 tribes are still separate...
each with its own special identity... even in the Kingdom of God.

.

joshua 1 9 · May 31, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
Genetic purity? That's an interesting concept to consider after hundreds of generations. Let's compare the number of generations with the number of ancestors one has.

Number of generations --> Number of ancestors
1 --> 2
2 --> 4
3 --> 8
4 --> 16
5 --> 32
6 --> 64
7 --> 128
8 --> 256
9 --> 512
10 --> 1024
20 --> 1,048,576 (a million)
30 --> 1,073,741,824 (a billion)
40 --> trillion+
50 --> quadrillion+

Hmm ... the world has never had a quadrillion people in it at one time so the only reasonable conclusion is that there must be substantial duplication of ancestors after even just ten or twenty generations. The drawbacks of in-breeding are well known and so natural evolution and personal preferences have favored the introduction of new genetic stock into the gene pool.

Rather than genetic purity of the 12 tribes, it kinda seems to me that a more accurate description is that the genetic stock of the 12 tribes were distributed throughout mankind ... just as stated in Micah 5.

And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

There were 42 generations between Abraham and Christ.
Matt1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

precepts · May 31, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
Here's a little more on the Levites.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel. And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them. Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity. And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed. But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.

But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD: They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge. And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within. They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat. And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments. Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads. Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court. Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before. And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths. And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves. And after he is cleansed, they shall reckon unto him seven days. And in the day that he goeth into the sanctuary, unto the inner court, to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, saith the Lord GOD.

And it shall be unto them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and ye shall give them no possession in Israel: I am their possession. They shall eat the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs. And the first of all the firstfruits of all things, and every oblation of all, of every sort of your oblations, shall be the priest's: ye shall also give unto the priest the first of your dough, that he may cause the blessing to rest in thine house. The priests shall not eat of any thing that is dead of itself, or torn, whether it be fowl or beast.

And what does this have to do with the fact the tribes of Dan and Ephraim aren't mentioned in Rev 7? :priest:

AlasBabylon · May 31, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
We know little about the "lost tribes".

We know that the civil war in Israel separated the 12 tribes into the Kingdom of Israel [10 tribes]
and the Kingdom of Judah [ 2 tribes.] Afterwards, because of their unfaithfulness, God divorced
the Northern Kingdom and Assyria destroyed it. Per 2 Kings 17:6 2 Kings 18:11 Assyria resettled
the 10 tribes in the "cities of the Medes." Secular history tells us the Medes were Aryans and
connected with them was a smaller group of Aryans... who were divided into 10 to 12 tribes -
10 or 12 tribes depending upon the ancient Greek historian telling the history... called Persians.
I've always thought it interesting that the founder of the Persian empire, Cyrus, is not only called
God's anointed in Isaiah 45... he is an archetype for Christ in the OT. I believe Cyrus was Israelite.
Which makes his conquering Babylon, liberating the other 2 tribes of Judah and sending them back
to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple not only interesting, but profound... proving that God indeed
is the Author of His-story... and while He does sift the seed of Israel among the nations [gentiles]
that seed is never lost to Him [Amos 9:9.]

Btw... both the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah were unfaithful to God... so why did
God only divorce the Kingdom of Israel and remove them from the Holy Land to become gentiles?
Because Jesus Christ was to be born into the Kingdom of Judah in the Holy Land. From there
His disciples searched out God's lost sheep... Israelites who had been divorced and scattered
since the 8th century BC. Jesus said: "I am sent only to the lost sheep of Israel" [Matthew 15:24.]

.

NightHawkeye · May 31, 2016

AlasBabylon said:
Like Noah who was "perfect in his generations" [Genesis 6:9] while the other "sons of God"
who married "daughters of men" were not... the reason the Bible is filled with genealogies
is because God's chosen people, Israel, were supposed to be separate from all other people
[Deuteronomy 7:6 Deuteronomy 14:2.] That did not always happen... in the "days of Noah"
when God saved only Noah and his family... and after the Babylonian captivity when Ezra
rebuked those who sinned by taking strange wives and those who transgressed put away
their strange wives and children [Ezra 9 Ezra 10 Nehemiah 9:2.]

Speaking of the days of Noah ... and genealogy, herewith an account of the generations from Shem (from whose name come Semites) to Abram.

These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood: And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.

And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah: And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.

And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber: And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.

And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg: And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.

And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu: And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.

And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug: And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.

And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor: And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.

And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah: And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.

And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

One is left to wonder what became of the unnamed sons and daughters who were begat. According to this accounting (if my counting backward is correct) Shem would have been only about 350 years old when Abram was born ... and very much alive at the time.

AlasBabylon said:
Btw... even the individual 12 tribes of Israel lived separately... each in his own territory.
Under King David... the 12 tribes were united but remained separate with their own identity.
In Revelation 21:12 New Jerusalem has 12 gates one for each of the 12 tribes of Israel...
that New Jerusalem has 12 gates instead of one big gate infers the 12 tribes are still separate...
each with its own special identity... even in the Kingdom of God.

All interesting points to ponder.

Razare · Jun 1, 2016

The 144,000 are needed because all the Christians are gone already, so a new body of ministers of his word are appointed for that season.

Luke17:37 · Jun 1, 2016

Razare said:
The 144,000 are needed because all the Christians are gone already, so a new body of ministers of his word are appointed for that season.

Welcome to the eschatology forum.

Have you ever thought of testing your theory of pre-tribulation rapture? If not, I encourage you to do so because what you believe about the Tribulation and return of Christ could be critically important.

If so, what how you did reach that conclusion? We could discuss this privately or open another thread.

It's probably not a surprise to you now, but I disagree with your premise that Christians will be gone prior to the Tribulation and that God will start over with a completely brand new Church. I believe these 144,000 are just Israelite believers in Jesus chosen by the Lord to be protected on account of their pure faith in Jesus.

NightHawkeye · Jun 1, 2016

Razare said:
The 144,000 are needed because all the Christians are gone already, so a new body of ministers of his word are appointed for that season.

I think not.

Razare · Jun 1, 2016

Luke17:37 said:
Have you ever thought of testing your theory of pre-tribulation rapture? If not, I encourage you to do so because what you believe about the Tribulation and return of Christ could be critically important.

If God would permit me to remain a Christian and go through the tribulation, I would choose it.

The reason he can't is, I am delivered from all of those things. The church has everything and more available to them that the 144k do. Except the 144k get a new song to sing, and are appointed to a special ministry. I have all the blessings of an OT prophet, and more, but I am not an OT prophet.

So the issue with a Christian living in the tribulation is multi-layered due to how blessed we are and our authority in Christ.

If satan falls to Earth and attempts to do things to the world, a Christian can take authority over him, and command him out of a situation.

I exercise this authority over the devil's kingdom in my daily life. I no longer get sick or ill. I intercede for others whom I have authority over and they are healed and delivered. I operate in miracles by the grace of God.

God does not suddenly abandon me because a tribulation shows up. And there are other Christians who have authority like this, I am not the only one.

Terry Mize kicked out the acting President of Haiti with spiritual authority, because that man was going to permit that nation to be re-dedicated to the devil.

Just for this election God got on my case for my words because I was speaking evil about the candidates. This evil I was speaking began to manifest, to what degree I am not fully certain, but even people at work who had not heard me speak these words, were saying exactly what I had said as if they were repeating me. So certainly my words of authority infiltrated my immediate domain. Did they permeate up to the top levels to some degree? I do not know, but I do not put it past God since he commanded me to pray for leaders.

If I can pray for a leader by God's authority, then I can impact that leader's life by authority, for God would never ever have me pray vainly.

So when you operate in this degree of authority, you have trouble accepting the notion I would be around during the tribulation where God's people are persecuted to such a degree and seemingly put under foot. The issue is, a Christian can never be put under the devil's foot unless that Christian permits it. And ultimately we never should permit it, but sometimes we die in acts of love where we don't exercise our authority, and choose to die to help others. Yet our authority given to us, can maintain our life up until the number of years given to a man to live. So death is optional, as it was for Paul, who was warned by God, but Paul chose to go anyway so he could preach to the leaders of the world.

Paul could have stayed inside God's protection, without sinning, and not died that way. It was 100% optional, as it is optional for all whom believe in Christ. That people are ignorant of what they have is why they perish. Hosea 4:6

So if God tries to strike the region where I live, I just confess my justification by Christ, and this justification was greater than God's wrath, for Christ having suffered fully God's wrath, still rose from the dead by the very words he prophesied. Those words spoken in faith, were greater than the full wrath of God's law wrought. So too then, a Christian has this justification by faith, and what wrath God can bring, words given to me by God spoken in love and faith are superior to his wrath, for God's love is greater than his anger. Upon this basis, God would have to remove me to do the things we see in Revelation.

Luke17:37 · Jun 1, 2016

Razare said:
If God would permit me to remain a Christian and go through the tribulation, I would choose it.

The reason he can't is, I am delivered from all of those things. The church has everything and more available to them that the 144k do. Except the 144k get a new song to sing, and are appointed to a special ministry. I have all the blessings of an OT prophet, and more, but I am not an OT prophet.

So the issue with a Christian living in the tribulation is multi-layered due to how blessed we are and our authority in Christ.

If satan falls to Earth and attempts to do things to the world, a Christian can take authority over him, and command him out of a situation.

I exercise this authority over the devil's kingdom in my daily life. I no longer get sick or ill. I intercede for others whom I have authority over and they are healed and delivered. I operate in miracles by the grace of God.

God does not suddenly abandon me because a tribulation shows up. And there are other Christians who have authority like this, I am not the only one.

Terry Mize kicked out the acting President of Haiti with spiritual authority, because that man was going to permit that nation to be re-dedicated to the devil.

Just for this election God got on my case for my words because I was speaking evil about the candidates. This evil I was speaking began to manifest, to what degree I am not fully certain, but even people at work who had not heard me speak these words, were saying exactly what I had said as if they were repeating me. So certainly my words of authority infiltrated my immediate domain. Did they permeate up to the top levels to some degree? I do not know, but I do not put it past God since he commanded me to pray for leaders.

If I can pray for a leader by God's authority, then I can impact that leader's life by authority, for God would never ever have me pray vainly.

So when you operate in this degree of authority, you have trouble accepting the notion I would be around during the tribulation where God's people are persecuted to such a degree and seemingly put under foot. The issue is, a Christian can never be put under the devil's foot unless that Christian permits it. And ultimately we never should permit it, but sometimes we die in acts of love where we don't exercise our authority, and choose to die to help others. Yet our authority given to us, can maintain our life up until the number of years given to a man to live. So death is optional, as it was for Paul, who was warned by God, but Paul chose to go anyway so he could preach to the leaders of the world.

Paul could have stayed inside God's protection, without sinning, and not died that way. It was 100% optional, as it is optional for all whom believe in Christ. That people are ignorant of what they have is why they perish. Hosea 4:6

So if God tries to strike the region where I live, I just confess my justification by Christ, and this justification was greater than God's wrath, for Christ having suffered fully God's wrath, still rose from the dead by the very words he prophesied. Those words spoken in faith, were greater than the full wrath of God's law wrought. So too then, a Christian has this justification by faith, and what wrath God can bring, words given to me by God spoken in love and faith are superior to his wrath, for God's love is greater than his anger. Upon this basis, God would have to remove me to do the things we see in Revelation.

"The issue is, a Christian can never be put under the devil's foot unless that Christian permits it."

You have completely left God out of this equation, but you have no power apart from God. God provides the power for spiritual warfare. God also allows the devil to exercise power according to certain bounds. Daniel and Revelation both speak of a time when the power of the holy people will be crushed. The 144,000 are the exceptions who are given God's protection. They are probably the same referred to in Revelation whom the dragon tries in vain to kill (Revelation 12:14-16). Enraged, he goes off to make war with the rest of the woman's offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Revelation 12:17).

We need to be careful not to think of God as a genie bound to do what we ask if we use the right words. We are not in control. There is only one Sovereign God of the universe.

The Tribulation is mostly Satan's wrath, not God's. You can test that.

I implore you to challenge this pre-tribulation rapture theory diligently against the light of God's Word. If it exists, you should find it clearly stated and supported by the whole counsel of Scripture. As for me, I'm firmly convinced the Church will be here the whole time and will be mostly slaughtered by Satan in the Tribulation. In the midst of this bloodbath of the faithful, the gospel will spread until it reaches every last nation, language, tribe and person who is going to believe.

NightHawkeye · Jun 1, 2016

Luke17:37 said:
"The issue is, a Christian can never be put under the devil's foot unless that Christian permits it."

You have completely left God out of this equation, but you have no power apart from God. God provides the power for spiritual warfare. God also allows the devil to exercise power according to certain bounds. Daniel and Revelation both speak of a time when the power of the holy people will be crushed. The 144,000 are the exceptions who are given God's protection. They are probably the same referred to in Revelation whom the dragon tries in vain to kill (Revelation 12:14-16). Enraged, he goes off to make war with the rest of the woman's offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Revelation 12:17).

We need to be careful not to think of God as a genie bound to do what we ask if we use the right words. We are not in control. There is only one Sovereign God of the universe.

The Tribulation is mostly Satan's wrath, not God's. You can test that.

I implore you to challenge this pre-tribulation rapture theory diligently against the light of God's Word. If it exists, you should find it clearly stated and supported by the whole counsel of Scripture. As for me, I'm firmly convinced the Church will be here the whole time and will be mostly slaughtered by Satan in the Tribulation. In the midst of this bloodbath of the faithful, the gospel will spread until it reaches every last nation, language, tribe and person who is going to believe.

I hasten to point out that even those who understand shall go through the trial and it is written that some of them shall fall ... "to try them, and to purge and to make them white".

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Do these include the 144,000? Perhaps not.

AlasBabylon · Jun 1, 2016

Luke17:37 said:
As for me, I'm firmly convinced the Church will be here the whole time and will be mostly slaughtered by Satan in the Tribulation.

It is not only a blessing to be God's people... it is also a sober responsibility.

An OT analogy is Ezekiel 9 where God marks righteous Israelites who cry over all the abominations being committed in Jerusalem.

Then God commands the slaughter of the rest of the Israelites.

God tells the destroyers [Babylon's horrific final siege of Jerusalem] to begin the slaughter with the elders at the temple.

So, instead of the temple [ie, the church] being exempt... it suffers first [because those chosen to know God's commandments, yet live in sin, are without excuse.]

In Amos 3:2, God tells Israel that of all the people of the earth, He has chosen them... therefore He will punish them when they sin.

This is also NT teaching.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not
the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall
the ungodly and the sinner appear?

1 Peter 4:17-18

Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:21

.

NightHawkeye · Jun 1, 2016

AlasBabylon said:
It is not only a blessing to be God's people... it is also a sober responsibility.

An OT analogy is Ezekiel 9 where God marks Israelites who cry over all the abominations being committed in Jerusalem.

Then God commands the slaughter of all the rest of the Israelites.

God tells the destroyers [Babylon's horrific final siege of Jerusalem] to begin the slaughter with the elders at the temple.

So, instead of the temple [ie, the church] being exempt... it suffers first [because those chosen to know God's commandments, yet live in sin, are without excuse.]

In Amos 3:2, God tells Israel that of all the people of the earth, He has chosen them... therefore He will punish them when they sin.

This is also NT teaching.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not
the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall
the ungodly and the sinner appear?

1 Peter 4:17-18

Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:21

.

... and Matthew 8.

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

... and Matthew 22

The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen.

AlasBabylon · Jun 1, 2016

.

Another OT example is King Josiah.

During King Josiah's reign over Jerusalem, he gave money so the temple could be repaired.
During those repairs a book of God's law was found and taken to the king. The king was aghast
because according to God's laws [which apparently had been lost and forgotten] his Kingdom
of Israel [Judah] was living in sin. Josiah was wise to realize God's sword was hanging over them.
So King Josiah repented and made radical righteous reforms to stop Israel's sinful abominations.
Josiah inquired of God as to their fate. God told Josiah that indeed He was going to punish
Israel for their evil abominations. But because Josiah had righteously repented... God would
wait until after the king's death so he would not see the destruction of Jerusalem.

If God only postponed destruction because of righteous repentance... what will be the fate
of those who do not repent.

Btw... after King Josiah died, his heirs allowed sinful abominations in Jerusalem.
God sent Babylon [and Edom] to destroy both Jerusalem and the temple.

.

precepts · Jun 1, 2016

I guess pointing out the fact the tribe of Dan and Ephraim aren't listed among the twelve in Rev 7 isn't important to some and their theology, thinking it should have been since it's the topic. lol!

Go figure.

NightHawkeye · Jun 1, 2016

precepts said:
I guess pointing out the fact the tribe of Dan and Ephraim aren't listed among the twelve in Rev 7 isn't important to some and their theology, thinking it should have been since it's the topic. lol!

Go figure.

Not sure why the snark, Precepts. I responded to your post which mostly focused on Levites ... but you ignored what I posted ... and still have responded about anything specifically.

Sure, the absence of the tribes of Dan and Ephraim and Manassah and Joseph are interesting in that one or another of them disappears from end-times prophecy in either Revelation or Ezekiel, but the 12 tribes are different in each ... and both are different from a straight historical listing of the twelve tribes ... some of which is readily explainable ... though perhaps not all.

Whither direction on this topic wilst thou go? :scratch:

precepts · Jun 2, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
Not sure why the snark, Precepts. I responded to your post which mostly focused on Levites ... but you ignored what I posted ... and still have responded about anything specifically.

You posted a thread on the 144,000 being the 12 tribes of Israel and I pointed out the fact the tribes of Dan and Ephraim weren't listed. You in turn tried to avoid the fact by only addressing my reference to the Levites and not addressing the fact the text is erroneous. I was merely adding more facts that I thought were essential to identifying the 144,000 since the tribes of Dan and Ephraim weren't listed, but you chose to ignore it.

NightHawkeye said:
Sure, the absence of the tribes of Dan and Ephraim and Manassah and Joseph are interesting in that one or another of them disappears from end-times prophecy in either Revelation or Ezekiel, but the 12 tribes are different in each ... and both are different from a straight historical listing of the twelve tribes ... some of which is readily explainable ... though perhaps not all.

Please explain, if you think you have a logical excuse.

NightHawkeye said:
Whither direction on this topic wilst thou go?

You people make an art out of dodging the facts.

NightHawkeye · Jun 2, 2016

precepts said:
You people make an art out of dodging the facts.

Continue to dodge as you wish. I offered you an opportunity to make whatever case you wish for your viewpoint/perspective. Take advantage of that ... or don't. Your choice.

I merely request that you cease the personal attacks. It comes across as petty and mean-spirited.

precepts · Jun 2, 2016

NightHawkeye said:
Continue to dodge as you wish. I offered you an opportunity to make whatever case you wish for your viewpoint/perspective. Take advantage of that ... or don't. Your choice.

Yet you only replied to one of my three comments. Go figure! And I said it was you who was doing the dodging, not me. It's interesting how you get the facts mixed up though.

NightHawkeye said:
I merely request that you cease the personal attacks. It comes across as petty and mean-spirited.

Pointing out the fact you dodged my point is a personal attack? It's either you did or you didn't.

NightHawkeye · Jun 3, 2016

precepts said:
Yet you only replied to one of my three comments. Go figure! And I said it was you who was doing the dodging, not me. It's interesting how you get the facts mixed up though.

Pointing out the fact you dodged my point is a personal attack? It's either you did or you didn't.

Attributing motivation ... and being snarky ... absolutely.

Perhaps if you focused your comments on the subject matter. Just a thought ...

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