College Students Want to Eliminate Grades Below 'C' and Written Exams

redleghunter · May 26, 2016

Uncle Siggy said:
This is just another example of people not wanting to be responsible for their actions, just like getting an abortion...

That R word again.

ChristsSoldier115 · May 26, 2016

ThatRobGuy said:
If you eliminate any grade lower than a C, then you're eliminating failing grades...which means, even if a student didn't show up at all throughout the entire semester (whether they were protesting or not), they still pass the courses.

Hey man, they're paying the college for a degree, not to learn stuff. lol

Hetta · May 26, 2016

ThatRobGuy said:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/05/...nt-eliminate-grades-below-c-and-written-exams

Heller spoke to self-identified “Afro-Latinx” student Megan Bautista, who said that she was upset that the school refused her demand to erase any grades below Cs.

Protest surged again in the fall of 2014, after the killing of Tamir Rice. “A lot of us worked alongside community members in Cleveland who were protesting. But we needed to organize on campus as well—it wasn’t sustainable to keep driving forty minutes away. A lot of us started suffering academically.” In 1970, Oberlin had modified its grading standards to accommodate activism around the Vietnam War and the Kent State shootings, and Bautista had hoped for something similar. More than thirteen hundred students signed a petition calling for the college to eliminate any grade lower than a C for the semester, but to no avail. “Students felt really unsupported in their endeavors to engage with the world outside Oberlin,” she told me.

Obviously, I support anyone's right to protest and think it's a freedom and right that should be celebrated... however, is it the school's job to accommodate their protesting/organizing schedule?, and expunge poor grades from their records for instances when they were choosing to participate in extra-curricular activities?

I think the school is in a position in which they'd be confronted with the "if you're doing it for them, then why aren't you doing it for us???" line of questioning if they gave in to this. Obviously, everyone has different things their passionate about, if they make accommodations (special rules/exemptions) for one person's passion, then they'd have to do that for everyone.

It's an interesting idea, but I figure that if I, as a full time non-traditional Master's student can work full-time, raise a family and run a household, and get A's, then those who are presumably traditional students/activists can at least get a C. I manned plenty of barricades back in the day, when I was a traditional student, but I didn't expect the college to change its rules to accommodate that activism.

Hetta · May 26, 2016

Nithavela said:
If any grade beneath C gets eliminated, any student that finishes with a C will have it way harder to find a job. I fail to see the point.

This too. Your GPA actually matters a LOT at undergrad level if you want to get into graduate school and/or get hired.

TheBear · May 26, 2016

Equal opportunity means nothing to them. No. This is a perfect example of the "equal outcome" crowd.

Uncle Siggy · May 27, 2016

TheBear said:
Equal opportunity means nothing to them. No. This is a perfect example of the "equal outcome" crowd.

I wonder how big a trophy they expect to receive???

Uncle Siggy · May 27, 2016

redleghunter said:
That R word again.

Those "R" words are just so annoying and inconvenient to some folks aren't they???

Uncle Siggy · May 27, 2016

ChristsSoldier115 said:
Hey man, they're paying the college for a degree, not to learn stuff. lol

Having that "piece of paper" has been more important than actually having real knowledge for quite sometime now, look at the current government for a prime example...

faroukfarouk · May 28, 2016

PreachersWife2004 said:
College students running naked through campus could be considered "goofy".

Getting your grade fixed because you did poorly on academics isn't "goofy", it's downright ridiculous and presumptuous.

I agree. When I go to a doctor or fly on an airplane, I don't want to think that some politician has 'fixed' the doctor's or engineer's grades, in case they felt "offended"...

rambot · May 29, 2016

Uncle Siggy said:
This is just another example of people not wanting to be responsible for their actions, just like getting an abortion...

yeah. Stupid rape victims!

FreeSpirit74 · May 30, 2016

Stupidest thing I ever heard of. Want higher grades than a C? STUDY HARDER.

As for the essay tests, what do these people rather want, multiple choice? Coloring the dots on Scan-tron sheets? Guessing the right answer doesn't show that you have learned the material. Being able to explain it in a well-organized, articulately written short essay shows that one has learned and internalized the material on which the student is being tested.

dogs4thewin · May 30, 2016

rambot said:
yeah. Stupid rape victims!

Well, at the same time, it is no one's fault but the rapist so why not carry the child term? It is about as much their fault you were raped as it would be their fault you consented to sex and then did not want them.

ThatRobGuy · May 30, 2016

Uncle Siggy said:
This is just another example of people not wanting to be responsible for their actions, just like getting an abortion...

rambot said:
yeah. Stupid rape victims!

I leave for a day and this is what happens to my thread lol.

I suppose a "culture of responsibility" angle isn't too much of a sidebar so I'll play along...

The truth lies in the middle.

To @Uncle Siggy , not every abortion is the result of people not wanting to take responsibility for their actions...no doubt that's true in more cases than not, but we still can't use a broad brush on that one.

To @rambot , people on the pro-choice side (and I'm pro-choice btw, so this isn't coming from a pro-life bias) need to stop making the entirety of pro-choice argument about rape, incest, and health cases in efforts to try to make the stance sound more "noble".

Here's the data pertaining to reasons given for getting an abortion.
Rape/Incest: 1%
Mother's Health Issues: 3%
Fetal Health Issues: 3%
Contraceptive Failed Despite Proper Use: 17%
Didn't Use Contraception: 46%
Improper Contraception Use: 22%
(the rest is divided up among several smaller reasons like "change in relationship status" & "change in financial situation")

People on the pro-choice side just need to start taking the more honest approach which saying "I realize 2/3 of abortions are had because of irresponsibility, however, I support people having a fallback/plan B for those scenarios because the alternative is worse" (that alternative being, forcing women into bringing unwanted children onto the planet to live less-than-enjoyable lives)

rambot · May 30, 2016

ThatRobGuy said:
I leave for a day and this is what happens to my thread lol.

I suppose a "culture of responsibility" angle isn't too much of a sidebar so I'll play along...

The truth lies in the middle.

To @Uncle Siggy , not every abortion is the result of people not wanting to take responsibility for their actions...no doubt that's true in more cases than not, but we still can't use a broad brush on that one.

To @rambot , people on the pro-choice side (and I'm pro-choice btw, so this isn't coming from a pro-life bias) need to stop making the entirety of pro-choice argument about rape, incest, and health cases in efforts to try to make the stance sound more "noble".

Here's the data pertaining to reasons given for getting an abortion.
Rape/Incest: 1%
Mother's Health Issues: 3%
Fetal Health Issues: 3%
Contraceptive Failed Despite Proper Use: 17%
Didn't Use Contraception: 46%
Improper Contraception Use: 22%
(the rest is divided up among several smaller reasons like "change in relationship status" & "change in financial situation")

Not for doubt but do you have a source for that?
I didn't make my comment to make abortions "more noble". Abortions suck and I HATE them. I'm just not a huge fan of slander (not in the legal sense but colloquial) based on ignorance.

If a full 40% of pregnancies happen outside of the mom's desire (either by rape or contraceptive use), I take great umbrage at the presumption that all women who've had abortions have been irresponsible.

rambot · May 30, 2016

dogs4thewin said:
Well, at the same time, it is no one's fault but the rapist so why not carry the child term? It is about as much their fault you were raped as it would be their fault you consented to sex and then did not want them.

Good heavens, even for CF, this feels like a completely insane statement.

But I'm not going to keep posting on abortions in this thread.
Excuse me
[bows out back]

dogs4thewin · May 30, 2016

rambot said:
Good heavens, even for CF, this feels like a completely insane statement.

But I'm not going to keep posting on abortions in this thread.
Excuse me
[bows out back]

What is so insane about it honest question? Is it the baby's fault the mother was raped?

ThatRobGuy · May 30, 2016

rambot said:
Not for doubt but do you have a source for that?

Sure thing

https://www.guttmacher.org/about/jo...use-among-us-women-having-abortions-2000-2001
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/tables/370305/3711005t3.pdf
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/tables/3429402t2.pdf

rambot said:
I didn't make my comment to make abortions "more noble". Abortions suck and I HATE them. I'm just not a huge fan of slander (not in the legal sense but colloquial) based on ignorance.

I can understand that, and that's why I made sure to point out the flaw in the argument coming from the other poster as well.

rambot said:
If a full 40% of pregnancies happen outside of the mom's desire (either by rape or contraceptive use), I take great umbrage at the presumption that all women who've had abortions have been irresponsible.

As it currently breaks down
Rape/Incest accounts for 1% (outside of the mothers control)
Health issues (mother and/or fetus) is 6% combined (outside of the mothers control)
Contraception Failed Despite proper use is 17% (outside of the mothers control)

On the "irresponsible side"...
Not using contraception 46% (completely irresponsible)
Improper use of contraception 22% (irresponsible)

The other items like "change in financial status", or "change in relationship status" are definitely a grey area...
If a women intentionally gets pregnant with the hopes of starting a family, and out of the blue, she loses her job and her house 2 months in, that's obviously a rough situation. If a couple decides to start a family, then 2 months in, the dude bails on her and she's left alone, that's obviously a rough situation...so we'll leave those out of the equation for the time being since opinions on those scenarios are going to be subjective coming from both sides of the fence.

However, we can definitively say the following based on the first 2 sets of numbers.
At least ~25% are for reasons outside the woman's control
At least ~68% are for reasons of irresponsibility

The issue I have with the argument presented by my fellow pro-choice folks out there is that the first defense they tend to throw out is pertaining to the rape victims. (1% of all cases of abortions) They create this no-win scenario in which a person can't criticize the 2/3 of abortions that take place due to irresponsibility, without depicting them as some sort of cold, heartless monster that doesn't care about rape victims. The harsh reality is, the majority of the practice of abortion is because of irresponsibility...when pro-lifers say that the high number of abortions is due to a culture of irresponsibility, they're not totally wrong. When someone brings up these numbers to them, the standard second line of defense argument is to blame fundamentalist conservatives for not wanting to embrace free contraception programs and earlier sex education. And while that's certainly a small factor (no denying that), it's definitely not the only factor. The proof of that is the fact that NYC has the highest abortion rate of anywhere in the nation...they have a liberal education system, teach sex ed in the 4th grade, and over 25 locations in the city that offer free contraception.

I liken it to the kinds of arguments pro-weed folks tend to throw out when justifying their position. As soon as someone criticizes it, they instantly bring up the cancer patients. (Even though, according to a reason magazine survey, 3/5 of medical marijuana users admit that they're using it for recreational purposes.)

(I'm pro-legalization of marijuana too)

rambot · May 30, 2016

ThatRobGuy said:
Sure thing

https://www.guttmacher.org/about/jo...use-among-us-women-having-abortions-2000-2001
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/tables/370305/3711005t3.pdf
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/tables/3429402t2.pdf

I can understand that, and that's why I made sure to point out the flaw in the argument coming from the other poster as well.

As it currently breaks down
Rape/Incest accounts for 1% (outside of the mothers control)
Health issues (mother and/or fetus) is 6% combined (outside of the mothers control)
Contraception Failed Despite proper use is 17% (outside of the mothers control)

On the "irresponsible side"...
Not using contraception 46% (completely irresponsible)
Improper use of contraception 22% (irresponsible)

The other items like "change in financial status", or "change in relationship status" are definitely a grey area...
If a women intentionally gets pregnant with the hopes of starting a family, and out of the blue, she loses her job and her house 2 months in, that's obviously a rough situation. If a couple decides to start a family, then 2 months in, the dude bails on her and she's left alone, that's obviously a rough situation...so we'll leave those out of the equation for the time being since opinions on those scenarios are going to be subjective coming from both sides of the fence.

However, we can definitively say the following based on the first 2 sets of numbers.
At least ~25% are for reasons outside the woman's control
At least ~68% are for reasons of irresponsibility

And I would disagree, I would say "improper use of contraception" is NOT necessarily irresponsible but I have no idea exactly what is meant by that. For example, a condom ripping in my mind, is NOT necessarily irresponsible. It's vague (which is why I included it as I did).

The issue I have with the argument presented by my fellow pro-choice folks out there is that the first defense they tend to throw out is pertaining to the rape victims. (1% of all cases of abortions) They create this no-win scenario in which a person can't criticize the 2/3 of abortions that take place due to irresponsibility, without depicting them as some sort of cold, heartless monster that doesn't care about rape victims. The harsh reality is, the majority of the practice of abortion is because of irresponsibility...when pro-lifers say that the high number of abortions is due to a culture of irresponsibility, they're not totally wrong. When someone brings up these numbers to them, the standard second line of defense argument is to blame fundamentalist conservatives for not wanting to embrace free contraception programs and earlier sex education. And while that's certainly a small factor (no denying that), it's definitely not the only factor. The proof of that is the fact that NYC has the highest abortion rate of anywhere in the nation...they have a liberal education system, teach sex ed in the 4th grade, and over 25 locations in the city that offer free contraception.

I would basically, grudgingly agree with most of this. I think the issue of irresponsibility may also be more convoluted than that (mental health and cognitive functioning could play factors, of course); unless those are included with "mother's health" (though I doubt it).

ThatRobGuy · May 31, 2016

rambot said:
And I would disagree, I would say "improper use of contraception" is NOT necessarily irresponsible but I have no idea exactly what is meant by that. For example, a condom ripping in my mind, is NOT necessarily irresponsible. It's vague (which is why I included it as I did).

I would agree on Condom Ripping...however, I would think those would be included in "contraceptive failure despite proper use"...which I wasn't including in the "irresponsible" category.

When I think "improper use", I'm thinking of things like "missing days on birth control pills", but having sex anyway and hoping for the best...not reading the directions and taking antibiotics at the same time as birth control (which some can cancel out the birth control)...not checking their IUD monthly (as recommended) to make sure it's still in place correctly, etc...

The same institute that published the numbers I posted previously also posted this data:

ThatRobGuy · May 31, 2016

rambot said:
I would basically, grudgingly agree with most of this. I think the issue of irresponsibility may also be more convoluted than that (mental health and cognitive functioning could play factors, of course); unless those are included with "mother's health" (though I doubt it).

(I would think) Mental health scenarios would fall under the category of "rape" in most cases as it is considered a form of rape (4th degree felony) for a man to knowingly engage in sexual relations with a women who is mentally challenged.

College Students Want to Eliminate Grades Below 'C' and Written Exams

Thank You Jesus!

Mabaho na Kuya

I'll find my way home

I'll find my way home

NON-WOKED

Promulgator of Annoying Tidbits of Information

Promulgator of Annoying Tidbits of Information

Promulgator of Annoying Tidbits of Information

Fading curmudgeon

Senior Member

Contra Dancing Pagan Warrior

dog lover

Part of the IT crowd

Senior Member

Senior Member

dog lover

Part of the IT crowd

Senior Member

Part of the IT crowd

Part of the IT crowd

Similar threads