LDS Joseph Smith was a False Prophet according to the Bible

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
The Bible clearly says to test a prophet this way:
Deuteronomy 18:22 – “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”

Isaiah 8:20 – “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

1 Corinthians 14:37 – “If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.”

Joseph Smith fails these tests. He has made prophecies which have failed. He has made prophecies which contradict God's Word. He does not acknowledge that the things written by the inspired Apostles are the commandments of the Lord.

To call Joseph Smith a prophet is wrong, he has failed the Biblical tests of being a prophet.
 

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,043
115
✟100,321.00
Faith
Mormon
The Bible clearly says to test a prophet this way:
Deuteronomy 18:22 – “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”

Isaiah 8:20 – “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

1 Corinthians 14:37 – “If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.”

Joseph Smith fails these tests. He has made prophecies which have failed. He has made prophecies which contradict God's Word. He does not acknowledge that the things written by the inspired Apostles are the commandments of the Lord.

To call Joseph Smith a prophet is wrong, he has failed the Biblical tests of being a prophet.

Was Ezekiel's a false prophet? He prophesied of that Tyre would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzarr Ezekiel 26:7-21 but that didn't happen Ezekiel 29:17-20.

Was Jeremiah a false prophet? He prophesied that Jehoiakim would have the burial of an ass (Jeremiah 22:19), but that didn't happen 2 Kings 24:6.

Was Jonah a false prophet? He prophesied Ninevah would destroyed and even gave a precise time table to it (Jonah 3:4). Didn't happen.

Is an angel a false prophet? An angel spoke to Samson's mother and prophecies that Samson would "begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines." (Judges 13:5) Didn't happen.

Is Nathan a false prophet? In 2 Samuel 7:5-17, he prophesied that David's empires would be established "forever," that the children of Israel would dwell in the promised land "and move no more," and that the "children of wickedness" would no longer afflict them. Totally didn't happen.



So: if your interpretation of the "test" is correct, then the Bible is full of false prophets!!
Or... your interoperation is incorrect.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
71
Salem Ut
✟161,549.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
A lot of prophesy is based on a blessing, “if” you obey then you will receive the promised land.

Jonah’s prophecy was based on ‘if’ you don’t repent you will be destroy you.

A lot of Joseph’s prophecy has the ‘if’ implied. He told Stephen Douglas;
“Judge, you will aspire to the presidency of the United States; and if you ever turn your hand against me or the Latter-day Saints, you will feel the weight of the hand of the Almighty upon you; and you will live to see and know that I have testified the truth to you; for the conversation of this day will stick to you through life.'. . .” 18th of May, 1843.

Douglas gave a speech in June of 1857 where he was asked what should we do about the Mormon problem in Utah.

“…..Should such a state of things actually exist as we are led to infer from the reports--and such information comes in an official shape--the knife must be applied to this pestiferous, disgusting cancer which is gnawing into the very vitals of the body politic. It must be cut out by the roots and seared over by the red hot iron of stern and unflinching law. * * * Should all efforts fail to bring them [the Mormons] to a sense of their duty, there is but one remedy left. Repeal the organic law of the territory, on the ground that they are alien enemies and outlaws, unfit citizens of one of the free and independent states of this confederacy.
"To protect them further in their treasonable, disgusting and bestial practices would be a disgrace to the country--a disgrace to humanity--a disgrace to civilization, and a disgrace to the spirit of the age. Blot it out of the organized territories of the United States….”

He turned his hand against the Mormons.

In 1860 and 17 years after Joseph’s prophecy Douglas was nominated at the Democratic Convention, he ran against Abraham Lincoln. In he only got 12 electoral votes and by June of 1861 he was dead from typhoid fever.

If he had said 'well I know a lot of Mormons and they are good people, I think we should wait to see if the rumors are true before we act' maybe he would have had a better showing, maybe he wouldn’t have died of typhoid, but that’s the way of prophecy there is a lot of either or.

Take the prophecy about building Zion, the Saints were all excited about building Zion in Missouri but there was and “if” attached to it.

D&C 63 August 30, 1831.
28 For Satan putteth it into their hearts to anger against you, and to the shedding of blood.
29 Wherefore, the land of Zion shall not be obtained but by purchase or by blood, otherwise there is none inheritance for you.
30 And if by purchase, behold you are blessed;
31 And if by blood, as you are forbidden to shed blood, lo, your enemies are upon you, and ye shall be scourged from city to city, and from synagogue to synagogue, and but few shall stand to receive an inheritance.

So they are being warned there will be martyrs, they will kill you but don’t you dare shed any blood in return.

Well my husband’s great grand father was with a group of 30 Mormons who were told a mob of over 100 had formed around one of the Witmers homes and were threatening them. They snuck up on them and as they drew closer someone yelled the Mormons are here, shots were fired on both sides leaving 3 or 4 dead, 1 Mormon and the others were part of the mob.

At that moment they lost Zion just as Moses was not allowed into the promised land, they had disobeyed the Lord and they lost it. (I’ve tried to match up this story from his journals, written 30 years later, with some of the Mormon history I’ve read and it seems to have occurred on Monday, 4 November 1833.)

On one hand the prophecies concerning the building of Zion did not come true but the prophecies concerning them being driven city to city did come true.
 
Upvote 0

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Was Ezekiel's a false prophet? He prophesied of that Tyre would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzarr Ezekiel 26:7-21 but that didn't happen Ezekiel 29:17-20.

Was Jeremiah a false prophet? He prophesied that Jehoiakim would have the burial of an ass (Jeremiah 22:19), but that didn't happen 2 Kings 24:6.

Was Jonah a false prophet? He prophesied Ninevah would destroyed and even gave a precise time table to it (Jonah 3:4). Didn't happen.

Is an angel a false prophet? An angel spoke to Samson's mother and prophecies that Samson would "begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines." (Judges 13:5) Didn't happen.

Is Nathan a false prophet? In 2 Samuel 7:5-17, he prophesied that David's empires would be established "forever," that the children of Israel would dwell in the promised land "and move no more," and that the "children of wickedness" would no longer afflict them. Totally didn't happen.



So: if your interpretation of the "test" is correct, then the Bible is full of false prophets!!
Or... your interoperation is incorrect.
Or.... your interpretation is incorrect.

Ezekiel's prophecy was fulfilled, Nebuchadnezzar did what was prophesied; I'm not sure how you are getting that this never happened.

Jonah's prophecy was conditional. The people of Ninevah responded to the condition by repenting so they would be spared, and God spared them. Not sure how you miss this one either.

Samson absolutely DID "begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines"! He judged Israel for 20 years! How do you figure it "didn't happen"????

And it's as if you saved the best for last - Nathan's prophecy was false? The House of David is Christ's lineage and Kingdom - He reigns forever. That's not a fulfillment of God's promise through Nathan's prophecy? Seriously?

Your interpretation of these as "failed prophecies" is not only wrong but not even logical.

If you want to see a failed prophecy, here is one of Joseph Smith's many failed prohecies...

All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War--"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3)
- This is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.
 
Upvote 0

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
A lot of prophesy is based on a blessing, “if” you obey then you will receive the promised land.

Jonah’s prophecy was based on ‘if’ you don’t repent you will be destroy you.

A lot of Joseph’s prophecy has the ‘if’ implied. He told Stephen Douglas;
“Judge, you will aspire to the presidency of the United States; and if you ever turn your hand against me or the Latter-day Saints, you will feel the weight of the hand of the Almighty upon you; and you will live to see and know that I have testified the truth to you; for the conversation of this day will stick to you through life.'. . .” 18th of May, 1843.

Douglas gave a speech in June of 1857 where he was asked what should we do about the Mormon problem in Utah.

“…..Should such a state of things actually exist as we are led to infer from the reports--and such information comes in an official shape--the knife must be applied to this pestiferous, disgusting cancer which is gnawing into the very vitals of the body politic. It must be cut out by the roots and seared over by the red hot iron of stern and unflinching law. * * * Should all efforts fail to bring them [the Mormons] to a sense of their duty, there is but one remedy left. Repeal the organic law of the territory, on the ground that they are alien enemies and outlaws, unfit citizens of one of the free and independent states of this confederacy.
"To protect them further in their treasonable, disgusting and bestial practices would be a disgrace to the country--a disgrace to humanity--a disgrace to civilization, and a disgrace to the spirit of the age. Blot it out of the organized territories of the United States….”

He turned his hand against the Mormons.

In 1860 and 17 years after Joseph’s prophecy Douglas was nominated at the Democratic Convention, he ran against Abraham Lincoln. In he only got 12 electoral votes and by June of 1861 he was dead from typhoid fever.

If he had said 'well I know a lot of Mormons and they are good people, I think we should wait to see if the rumors are true before we act' maybe he would have had a better showing, maybe he wouldn’t have died of typhoid, but that’s the way of prophecy there is a lot of either or.

Take the prophecy about building Zion, the Saints were all excited about building Zion in Missouri but there was and “if” attached to it.

D&C 63 August 30, 1831.
28 For Satan putteth it into their hearts to anger against you, and to the shedding of blood.
29 Wherefore, the land of Zion shall not be obtained but by purchase or by blood, otherwise there is none inheritance for you.
30 And if by purchase, behold you are blessed;
31 And if by blood, as you are forbidden to shed blood, lo, your enemies are upon you, and ye shall be scourged from city to city, and from synagogue to synagogue, and but few shall stand to receive an inheritance.

So they are being warned there will be martyrs, they will kill you but don’t you dare shed any blood in return.

Well my husband’s great grand father was with a group of 30 Mormons who were told a mob of over 100 had formed around one of the Witmers homes and were threatening them. They snuck up on them and as they drew closer someone yelled the Mormons are here, shots were fired on both sides leaving 3 or 4 dead, 1 Mormon and the others were part of the mob.

At that moment they lost Zion just as Moses was not allowed into the promised land, they had disobeyed the Lord and they lost it. (I’ve tried to match up this story from his journals, written 30 years later, with some of the Mormon history I’ve read and it seems to have occurred on Monday, 4 November 1833.)

On one hand the prophecies concerning the building of Zion did not come true but the prophecies concerning them being driven city to city did come true.
There are far too many failed prophecies that Joseph Smith made. All it takes is ONE failed prophecy, according to the Bible, to know that a prophet is false. Joseph Smith had many. He is a false prophet.

I'm sorry you took the time to type up everything you did because it is all rendered moot based on what the Bible says about prophecy and prophets.
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
71
Salem Ut
✟161,549.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Jonah's prophecy was conditional.

exactly!

And all prophecy is up for interpretation. It does not say all nations would get involved in the Civil War but that war would be poured out upon all nations.

the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain,

The South did this and in fact the British prolong the war by providing guns and food to the South;
http://www.military-history.org/blo...ring-the-american-civil-war-peter-tsouras.htm

"and they(Great Britain) shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations"

The Civil War ended in 1865, after that time a number of alliances began to form across Europe. First there was the an alliance between the German Empire, the Russian Empire and Austria-Hungary, from 1873 to 1887. Then Triple Entente alliances between Great Britain, Russia, Ireland, France to counter the the Triple Alliance of Germany, Austria-Hungary and the Kingdom of Italy, (See Wik) As WW1 broke out Britain called upon these nations and the US for help, turned round and did it in WW2 also.

So this general revelation on war came to pass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jane_Doe
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
71
Salem Ut
✟161,549.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There are far too many failed prophecies that Joseph Smith made. All it takes is ONE failed prophecy, according to the Bible, to know that a prophet is false. Joseph Smith had many. He is a false prophet.

I'm sorry you took the time to type up everything you did because it is all rendered moot based on what the Bible says about prophecy and prophets.

keep naming them and we'll take a look!
 
Upvote 0

Jane_Doe

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
6,658
1,043
115
✟100,321.00
Faith
Mormon
Or.... your interpretation is incorrect.

Ezekiel's prophecy was fulfilled, Nebuchadnezzar did what was prophesied; I'm not sure how you are getting that this never happened.

Jonah's prophecy was conditional. The people of Ninevah responded to the condition by repenting so they would be spared, and God spared them. Not sure how you miss this one either.

Samson absolutely DID "begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines"! He judged Israel for 20 years! How do you figure it "didn't happen"????

And it's as if you saved the best for last - Nathan's prophecy was false? The House of David is Christ's lineage and Kingdom - He reigns forever. That's not a fulfillment of God's promise through Nathan's prophecy? Seriously?

Your interpretation of these as "failed prophecies" is not only wrong but not even logical.
You're actually making my point for me: prophecy can be conditional (example Jonah), prophecy can be unexpected in what counts as "fulfilled" (example Nathan prophecy: yes, you see it as being fulfilled because you're taking a metaphysical approach to it. A literal approach clearly shows a lack of fulfillment).
 
Upvote 0

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,463
✟201,967.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Single
All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War--"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3)
- This is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.

Check your military history.

There's been armed conflict somewhere in the world virtually non-stop since the 1860s.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,442
1,983
Washington
✟219,619.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Check your military history.

There's been armed conflict somewhere in the world virtually non-stop since the 1860s.
So the American Civil War caused all the other wars since the 1860's? Is that what you are really trying to get us to believe was the "prophecy"?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,463
✟201,967.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Single
So the American Civil War caused all the other wars since the 1860's? Is that what you are really trying to get us to believe was the "prophecy"?

No, I'm saying "warfare has, indeed, covered the face of the Earth since then, so it's not actually wrong."
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
71
Salem Ut
✟161,549.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
When Jesus gives his description of the last days he says;

Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Really, the end of the world hasn't happened so....
 
Upvote 0

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
No, I'm saying "warfare has, indeed, covered the face of the Earth since then, so it's not actually wrong."

The South did this and in fact the British prolong the war by providing guns and food to the South;
http://www.military-history.org/blo...ring-the-american-civil-war-peter-tsouras.htm

"and they(Great Britain) shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations"

The Civil War ended in 1865, after that time a number of alliances began to form across Europe. First there was the an alliance between the German Empire, the Russian Empire and Austria-Hungary, from 1873 to 1887. Then Triple Entente alliances between Great Britain, Russia, Ireland, France to counter the the Triple Alliance of Germany, Austria-Hungary and the Kingdom of Italy, (See Wik) As WW1 broke out Britain called upon these nations and the US for help, turned round and did it in WW2 also.

So this general revelation on war came to pass.
Wow. This is amazing. Two of you, mormons, are so desperate to defend Joseph Smith's failed prophecy and insist it is not a failed one that you are resorting to a ridiculous assertion.

That assertion which you are both making is that Joseph Smith's prophecy was not tying subsequent wars to the Civil War, but rather was providing "a general revelation on war" and that "warfare has, indeed, covered the face of the Earth since then, so it's not actually wrong."

If Joseph Smith was "prophesying" simply that there would be many wars, then this is a fail on two levels:
1. He prophesied that these wars would "begin" with the Civil War. Well, no, the constancy of wars occurring throughout the world preceded the Civil War and subsequent (and UNRELATED) wars are not a continuation of some unique pattern of wars kicked off by the Civil War (as JS prophesied) but rather a continuation of normal historical patterns of the occurrence of wars throughout the world.
2. Somewhat related to the 1st point, it is not a prophecy to predict that there will be wars poured out upon the world as this is what has been happening throughout history. If you look at a list of the wars throughout the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_war#Wars) it is clear that it doesn't take a prophet to predict that wars will constantly be occurring throughout the world. It's like saying someone's a prophet for predicting that daylight will return every morning. It's something anyone can predict based on observation of very consistent patterns in the past and present.

But no matter how much either of you try to distort it, it's clear that Joseph Smith was prophesying a connection between the American Civil War and subsequent wars throughout the world, and there is no such connection. He predicted that the South would call upon "other nations" who in turn would also call upon "other nations" to defend themselves against "other nations"... It reads like a monkey with mental disabilities wrote it. And it is clearly WRONG.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigDaddy4
Upvote 0

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
exactly!

And all prophecy is up for interpretation. It does not say all nations would get involved in the Civil War but that war would be poured out upon all nations.
exactly wrong!

Prophecy is not up for interpretation. It is straightforward. There is no individual interpretation to it. And as I said in my previous post, if your assertion is that the prophecy only says that "war would be poured out upon all nations", what kind of prophecy is that? Anyone could say that at any time and be right. Historians, who are not prophets nor claim to be prophets, are always saying that there will be wars constantly throughout the world, because history has shown this to us. That's not prophecy, that's being Master Of The Obvious. And anyone can be Master Of The Obvious.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Actually, in our Nathan example we already discussed how fulfillment of prophecy can be a matter of intrepretatin
We didn't discuss it, you gave your opinion.

Your opinion, however, is not the same as the truth about Nathan's prophecy. There is no way to understand Nathan's prophecy correctly and think that it is a failed prophecy. The only way to think it's a failed prophecy is to misunderstand it. It is very clear that the prophecy was greatly fulfilled. I'm not sure how you think the prophecy was not fulfilled but there's no logical way to think it wasn't.
 
Upvote 0

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)
Site Supporter
Mar 6, 2011
20,046
7,674
.
Visit site
✟1,064,547.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
And what happens to people who follow a man?

5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. - Jeremiah 17

In a salt land and not inhabited... Hmmm... That sounds familiar!
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
71
Salem Ut
✟161,549.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Wow. This is amazing. Two of you, mormons, are so desperate to defend Joseph Smith's failed prophecy and insist it is not a failed one that you are resorting to a ridiculous assertion.

That assertion which you are both making is that Joseph Smith's prophecy was not tying subsequent wars to the Civil War, but rather was providing "a general revelation on war" and that "warfare has, indeed, covered the face of the Earth since then, so it's not actually wrong."

If Joseph Smith was "prophesying" simply that there would be many wars, then this is a fail on two levels:
1. He prophesied that these wars would "begin" with the Civil War. Well, no, the constancy of wars occurring throughout the world preceded the Civil War and subsequent (and UNRELATED) wars are not a continuation of some unique pattern of wars kicked off by the Civil War (as JS prophesied) but rather a continuation of normal historical patterns of the occurrence of wars throughout the world.
2. Somewhat related to the 1st point, it is not a prophecy to predict that there will be wars poured out upon the world as this is what has been happening throughout history. If you look at a list of the wars throughout the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_war#Wars) it is clear that it doesn't take a prophet to predict that wars will constantly be occurring throughout the world. It's like saying someone's a prophet for predicting that daylight will return every morning. It's something anyone can predict based on observation of very consistent patterns in the past and present.

But no matter how much either of you try to distort it, it's clear that Joseph Smith was prophesying a connection between the American Civil War and subsequent wars throughout the world, and there is no such connection. He predicted that the South would call upon "other nations" who in turn would also call upon "other nations" to defend themselves against "other nations"... It reads like a monkey with mental disabilities wrote it. And it is clearly WRONG.

Jesus did the same thing;
Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
"7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Didn't make him a false prophet.

Remember this Prophecy on War was given in 1832 a full 29 years before the Civil War started and then lets add this from D&C 130; April 2, 1843
"I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina"

He got that right!

And this one given to General Alexander. W. Doniphan, The story is told by Doniphan's brother in-law Leonidas M. Lawson. Both non Mormons.

"On one occasion General Doniphan caused the sheriff of the county to bring Joseph Smith from the prison to his law office, for the purpose of consultation about his defense. During Smith's presence in the office, a resident of Jackson county, Missouri, came in for the purpose of paying a fee which was due by him to the firm of Doniphan & Baldwin, and offered in payment a tract of land in Jackson county.

"Doniphan told him that his partner, Mr. Baldwin, was absent at the moment, but as soon as he had an opportunity he would consult him and decide about the matter. When the Jackson county man retired, Joseph Smith, who had overheard the conversation, addressed General Doniphan about as follows:

"'Doniphan, I advise you not to take that Jackson county land in payment of the debt. God's wrath hangs over Jackson county. God's people have been ruthlessly driven from it, and you will live to see the day when it will be visited by fire and sword. The Lord of Hosts will sweep it with the besom of destruction. The fields and farms and houses will be destroyed, and only the chimneys will be left to mark the desolation.'
"General Doniphan said to me that the devastation of Jackson county forcibly reminded him of this remarkable prediction of the Mormon Prophet. . . ."

It was called order 11, "1. All persons living in Jackson, Cass, and Bates counties, Missouri, and in that part of Vernon included in this district, except those living within one mile of the limits of Independence, Hickman's Mills, Pleasant Hill, and Harrisonville, and except those in that part of Kaw Township, Jackson County, north of Brush Creek and west of Big Blue, are hereby ordered to remove from their present places of residence within fifteen days from the date hereof."

They literally striped the county of Jackson bare and burned nearly every house to the ground leaving only the chimneys standing.

There is a difference here concerning wars in the past;

2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.

I bet there is a lot about the Civil war you don't know!
"The most dramatic gestures of cooperation between the Russian Empire and the United States came in the autumn of 1863, as the Laird rams crisis hung in the balance. On September 24, the Russian Baltic fleet began to arrive in New York harbor. On October 12, the Russian Far East fleet began to arrive in San Francisco....The Russian admirals had also been told that, if the US and Russia were to find themselves at war with Britain and France, the Russian ships should place themselves under Lincoln’s command and operate in synergy with the US Navy against the common enemies. It is thus highly significant that the Russian ships were sent to the United States."http://www.voltairenet.org/article169488.html

The French and British had sided with the Confederacy, they wanted America to break up, they were collaborating within Mexico trying to provoke a war and then they tried to get Russia to join them but the Czar of Russia liked Lincoln. The British then tried to occupy Poland in order to cause a crisis for Russia and keep her out of our civil war.

Our Civil War had repercussions around the world.

Never before had there been a 'world war' where literally all nations were involved.

Who would have thought the nation who prided itself in the fact the sun never set on it would have to call on Mexico to get 75% of it's oil. Did ya know Brazil was part of WW1, the Germans kept sinking their boats so they declared war. China declared war on Germany on Aug 14, 1917. The whole world was at war with each other, that had not happened before!

Now you can bury your head in the sand and deny all you want but that doesn't make Joseph a false Prophet.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmenianJohn

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist
Jan 30, 2013
8,962
5,551
New Jersey (NYC Metro)
✟205,252.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Jesus did the same thing;
Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
"7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Didn't make him a false prophet.
Jesus wasn't a prophet of any kind, even if He prophesied. He is God - He is speaking for Himself, not prophesying on behalf of someone else. You took a snippet out of a larger prophecy which is actually about the Church age and how things will be for the Church. The point was not about wars or famines, it was about the fact that the Church will endure hardships. It wasn't about the fact that there would be famines and wars per se, it was about the fact that the Church would bear the brunt of these but that the Church should not be distracted and put off course but rather should endure to the end.

Or are you trying to say Jesus was a false prophet?

Remember this Prophecy on War was given in 1832 a full 29 years before the Civil War started and then lets add this from D&C 130; April 2, 1843
"I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina"

He got that right!
It doesn't matter if he got a part of the prophecy right if it is wrong overall. A broken clock is right twice a day, a blind squirrel sometimes still finds a nut, and psychics and fortune tellers and demons can tell the future sometimes. It's note-worthy that Joseph Smith was a practicing witch and occultist so there's no doubt that he received supernatural help from Satan and demons, especially through his Jupiter talisman (a witchcraft, occultic talisman which summoned satanic and demonic help for Joseph Smith).

Jesus did the same thing;
Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
"7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Didn't make him a false prophet.
Jesus wasn't a prophet of any kind, even if He prophesied. He is God - He is speaking for Himself, not prophesying on behalf of someone else. You took a snippet out of a larger prophecy which is actually about the Church age and how things will be for the Church. The point was not about wars or famines, it was about the fact that the Church will endure hardships. It wasn't about the fact that there would be famines and wars per se, it was about the fact that the Church would bear the brunt of these but that the Church should not be distracted and put off course but rather should endure to the end.

Or are you trying to say Jesus was a false prophet?

And this one given to General Alexander. W. Doniphan, The story is told by Doniphan's brother in-law Leonidas M. Lawson. Both non Mormons.

"On one occasion General Doniphan caused the sheriff of the county to bring Joseph Smith from the prison to his law office, for the purpose of consultation about his defense. During Smith's presence in the office, a resident of Jackson county, Missouri, came in for the purpose of paying a fee which was due by him to the firm of Doniphan & Baldwin, and offered in payment a tract of land in Jackson county.

"Doniphan told him that his partner, Mr. Baldwin, was absent at the moment, but as soon as he had an opportunity he would consult him and decide about the matter. When the Jackson county man retired, Joseph Smith, who had overheard the conversation, addressed General Doniphan about as follows:

"'Doniphan, I advise you not to take that Jackson county land in payment of the debt. God's wrath hangs over Jackson county. God's people have been ruthlessly driven from it, and you will live to see the day when it will be visited by fire and sword. The Lord of Hosts will sweep it with the besom of destruction. The fields and farms and houses will be destroyed, and only the chimneys will be left to mark the desolation.'
"General Doniphan said to me that the devastation of Jackson county forcibly reminded him of this remarkable prediction of the Mormon Prophet. . . ."

It was called order 11, "1. All persons living in Jackson, Cass, and Bates counties, Missouri, and in that part of Vernon included in this district, except those living within one mile of the limits of Independence, Hickman's Mills, Pleasant Hill, and Harrisonville, and except those in that part of Kaw Township, Jackson County, north of Brush Creek and west of Big Blue, are hereby ordered to remove from their present places of residence within fifteen days from the date hereof."

They literally striped the county of Jackson bare and burned nearly every house to the ground leaving only the chimneys standing.

There is a difference here concerning wars in the past;

2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.

I bet there is a lot about the Civil war you don't know!
"The most dramatic gestures of cooperation between the Russian Empire and the United States came in the autumn of 1863, as the Laird rams crisis hung in the balance. On September 24, the Russian Baltic fleet began to arrive in New York harbor. On October 12, the Russian Far East fleet began to arrive in San Francisco....The Russian admirals had also been told that, if the US and Russia were to find themselves at war with Britain and France, the Russian ships should place themselves under Lincoln’s command and operate in synergy with the US Navy against the common enemies. It is thus highly significant that the Russian ships were sent to the United States."http://www.voltairenet.org/article169488.html

The French and British had sided with the Confederacy, they wanted America to break up, they were collaborating within Mexico trying to provoke a war and then they tried to get Russia to join them but the Czar of Russia liked Lincoln. The British then tried to occupy Poland in order to cause a crisis for Russia and keep her out of our civil war.

Our Civil War had repercussions around the world.

Never before had there been a 'world war' where literally all nations were involved.

Who would have thought the nation who prided itself in the fact the sun never set on it would have to call on Mexico to get 75% of it's oil. Did ya know Brazil was part of WW1, the Germans kept sinking their boats so they declared war. China declared war on Germany on Aug 14, 1917. The whole world was at war with each other, that had not happened before!

Now you can bury your head in the sand and deny all you want but that doesn't make Joseph a false Prophet.
Any war will bring about a response by other nations, again, that is history repeating itself. It is absolutely nothing new. Joseph Smith needed to look no further back than the American Revolution to see how a war here in the US would involve several foreign nations through alliances and diplomacy. All major wars have repercussions around the world. Thank you Joseph Smith, Prophet Of The Obvious.

Any foreign nation's involvement in the Civil War was first of all not direct, and second did not lead to the dynamics of World War I, which you are (wrongly) claiming to be the outcome of JS's prophecy. You make a leap from the Civil War to WWI, where the alliances were different from the quasi-alliances in the Civil War and you think this somehow helps make your point?

You make the assertion that "Never before had there been a 'world war' where literally all nations were involved." Let me correct that for you: "Never, ever, ever has there been a 'world war' where literally all nations were involved." See, the truth is kind of the opposite of what you said. So much for Joseph Smith's claim that a war would involve "all nations".

Not sure what Brazil being in WWI proves, China declaring war on Germany proves... I think it's just more padding to make it look like you're saying something relevant when most of it is completely irrelevant, as many of your very long posts seem to fit this pattern.

Our Civil War had repercussions around the world.

Never before had there been a 'world war' where literally all nations were involved.
This is how you ended your long post. What this is saying is that there is a direct connection between the US Civil War and the repercussions "around the world" and World War I (which you earlier asserted involved "literally" every nation).

The problem is, as I've demonstrated above, that you leave tremendous gaps in relating these events to each other. Gaps that are like chasms. And that's because there is no way to tie those events together. So this last couplet of yours really doesn't say anything that backs up JS's prophecy - his prophecy is failed.
 
Upvote 0