On God killing the "little ones" of Dathan and Abiram

Far Side Of the Moon

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Well, maybe they didn't die at all. That's my point. As far as why create them; if they go to be with God for eternity then I'd say it's much better for them to be created than not.
I feel the same way..much like people who God absolutely knows isnt going to make it to heaven...why create them? Their life was just a waste if they dont get to experience eternal paradise..
I just dont understand that.
 
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Achilles6129

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I feel the same way..much like people who God absolutely knows isnt going to make it to heaven...why create them? Their life was just a waste if they dont get to experience eternal paradise..
I just dont understand that.
I think that God creates them for a purpose that never gets fulfilled. He doesn't intend for anyone to be lost.
 
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charitylove

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God is not unfair. He only killed those who were old enough to understand and to be in the conspiracy with their parents. The proof of that is that Asaph, who wrote several psalms, was a descendant of one of the rebels (Korah), and he was one of the most prominent of the temple singers. God also gave a second chance to the little ones who knew not the difference between good or evil when the spies rejected the land they had surveyed. Only Caleb, Joshua and those "little ones" entered into the land of promise.
 
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tickingclocker

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The wages of sin is death.

Note that the concept of "punishment" does
not come up in my quote or your story.
I witnessed something yesterday that really fleshed out James 2:13 like never before. It reminded me that God's mercy doesn't always look like we expect it to. What would those children have been treated like if they had lived on without their parents? You know people. They would have been lifelong pariahs within their own community. The Jews who came out of Egypt were not exactly the nicest people in the world. They had been infected by the "world" for generations, to the point of shrugging off what being "Jewish" meant. Would that be mercy if God spared those children from a worse fate than a few moments of terror among their family? Who knows if God saved them because of their innocence, even in Sheol, while destroying their disobedient fathers at the same time? Didn't Jesus go to Sheol and ransom those who were captive there? You don't know if those innocent children were among the ransomed. Even if they were not, who can righteously judge God's actions? We may not like what He does, but we cannot judge Him. Being alive is not always a kindness.

I always come back to the same conclusion in these instances, leave the things of God to God. God alone... is God. We CANNOT ever puzzle out God or His ways to assuage our curiosity, our fear of unknowns, any guilt, resentment, nothing. We are not divine, so stop trying to be. Trust in His divine mercy, holiness, and love. Or drive yourself mad over what might amount to God's ultimate mercy that is the core of His Being. I'll just have to wait for heaven to find out why He does the things He does, when our eyes will be fully opened. YOU try determining all of what is happening around you with your eyes half shut. See if you can! In the meantime, I said I would trust Him and I shall. Maybe that's why those babies were destroyed? To exercise our trust in His mercy, despite what we "think" we may see.
 
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Shadowprophet

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If that's the case, then why doesn't God just destroy all of us?

I will admit that this passage is problematic because we don't know the age of Dathan/Abiram's children, but I think since it says "little ones" that we can safely assume that they could not have been in conscious rebellion against God.


People tend to over look that God can not tolerate sin, And he is vengeful and full of wrath, God is not some peace loving hippy on the verge of pop culture with what we find socially acceptable,, when Jesus returns, He will come to bring a sword. We have Gods mercy, If we accept it, But those who do not, Will be destroyed The Heavenly Father can not stand our sin and corruption he has destroyed cities before and people.. We are lucky that we have his mercy.. because people seem to have a problem accepting that he is GOD AND CAN DO WHATEVER HE PLEASES.. it is wise to Fear God and his wrath.
 
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Xalith

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People tend to over look that God can not tolerate sin, And he is vengeful and full of wrath, God is not some peace loving hippy on the verge of pop culture with what we find socially acceptable,, when Jesus returns, He will come to bring a sword. We have Gods mercy, If we accept it, But those who do not, Will be destroyed The Heavenly Father can not stand our sin and corruption he has destroyed cities before and people.. We are lucky that we have his mercy.. because people seem to have a problem accepting that he is GOD AND CAN DO WHATEVER HE PLEASES.. it is wise to Fear God and his wrath.

This kind of talk is what drives people away from Christ.

It is true that God is Almighty, it is true that God can, and will punish the wicked. However... God so Loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son to save it, so that no one would perish but all would come to repentance.

See, God doesn't care what you've done, if you're willing to repent. You could have raped 500 women and killed 500 babies and blasphemed Him 500 times and the moment you drop to your knees in front of Him and wholeheartedly and sincerely repent for your evil deeds, you will be forgiven.

God isn't looking for excuses to destroy us. If He were, He would have made the Earth explode a long time ago with the snap of His Holy Fingers. I rather like to think that God is looking for the opposites -- "excuses" to save us. He gives us every opportunity to repent and turn back to Him, and He will accept us at any time, as long as certain rules are followed, like... it has to be before your physical death, it has to be sincere and whole-hearted (He knows, trust me, He knows if you're being sincere), etc.

As for Dathan, and the like: God had to make a statement. He knew those children were not past the Age of Innocence yet, and He knew they would end up in Paradise, and later, Heaven if they were to die then. He also knew that if they didn't die, they likely might have been pariahs, or perhaps Israel might not have learned her lesson on those days. God knew that if He utterly destroyed everything that pertained to Dathan, that it would be a shocking wake-up call to the rest of Israel. He's got all kinds of mercy, longsuffering, etc... but there are certain things He will NOT tolerate by any means, and one of them is grossly breaking His Ten Commandments, not even two months after they were given, after they promised Him that they would do them.

Look at this from God's POV. You wrote with your own finger in stone 10 commandments. They stood before you and said "As You said, we will do." Then, you ask Moses to come up to the Mountain for 40 days for further instructions... and within those 40 days, they manage to break every single one of your 10 commandments just because they lacked faith that Moses would come back to them. This is after you made every attempt to show Israel your might. You used pillars of fire, clouds of shade, you made water flow out of rocks, you dropped bread from Heaven, you parted the Red Sea, you plagued Egypt and they lose faith in less than 40 days and entirely 180 turn away from you and do entirely detestable acts.

What would you do? Would you not be angry? Would you not want to wipe Dathan and his entire family off the planet to tell the rest of Israel that you will NOT tolerate such things happening in your holy nation?

The kids involved in that died, and normally that's a horrible thing... but yet kids get a free pass to Heaven because they were still innocent when they died. Whenever a person murders an innocent child, it's a truly heinous act, because God might have had plans for that child. However, when God causes a child's death... I see it as an act of mercy -- you know the child will go to Heaven and usually when that happens, I believe it happens for one of two reasons:

1). The child might have been lost otherwise,
2). It was a lesson to someone else.

In Jewish culture, genealogies are everything. The end of your family line was HUGE in ancient Jewish Culture (so big, Levirite Marriage was a thing -- if a married man died without offspring, the man's brother had an obligation to impregnate the widow to carry on the family line). If kids of Dathan had survived that catastrophy, Dathan's family line would have continued and God seemed to not want that. By destroying ALL of Dathan's house, God made a statement that He would entirely wipe them off the face of the planet if they did similar as to what Dathan did.
 
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DamianWarS

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To look at those "little ones" lives as wasted would discredit Christ power over death. That sin demanded death thousands of years ago has been defeated and those children will be restored again. What else does God owe us; our lives always had an expiry date and had no promise of length. Although it is painful to watch loves ones die especially with children, death has no power over us and I would include those "little ones" in that statement.

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EastCoastRemnant

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I feel the same way..much like people who God absolutely knows isnt going to make it to heaven...why create them? Their life was just a waste if they dont get to experience eternal paradise..
I just dont understand that.
By this response you are saying that salvation is not ours to accept or reject... that it is pre-determined. Can you give us scripture for that contention?
 
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Tree of Life

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Now here's the question: why destroy the "little ones" (which I take to mean the small children) of Dathan/Abiram? It would have been easy for their lives to have been spared by God. So why did God destroy them along with Dathan and Abiram? I find this to be a very interesting theological question and I'd appreciate any input. I'm thinking that God may destroy the children of the wicked not as punishment against the children but as punishment against the wicked. Thoughts?

Tragically our sin does not just affect us. It also has terrible consequences for those closest to us - especially those in our household. Dathan and Abiram defied the Lord and persisted in their defiance, refusing to swerve from their disobedience. In doing this they also brazenly exposed their families and little ones to the wrath of God. Adam did the same thing with all of his posterity (us included).

But the good news is that righteousness also has an affect on children - even a saving affect. The church of God exists today because of the faith of Abraham. But also ultimately because of the righteousness of our new Adam - Jesus Christ.
 
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Shadowprophet

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This kind of talk is what drives people away from Christ.

It is true that God is Almighty, it is true that God can, and will punish the wicked. However... God so Loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son to save it, so that no one would perish but all would come to repentance.

See, God doesn't care what you've done, if you're willing to repent. You could have raped 500 women and killed 500 babies and blasphemed Him 500 times and the moment you drop to your knees in front of Him and wholeheartedly and sincerely repent for your evil deeds, you will be forgiven.

God isn't looking for excuses to destroy us. If He were, He would have made the Earth explode a long time ago with the snap of His Holy Fingers. I rather like to think that God is looking for the opposites -- "excuses" to save us. He gives us every opportunity to repent and turn back to Him, and He will accept us at any time, as long as certain rules are followed, like... it has to be before your physical death, it has to be sincere and whole-hearted (He knows, trust me, He knows if you're being sincere), etc.

As for Dathan, and the like: God had to make a statement. He knew those children were not past the Age of Innocence yet, and He knew they would end up in Paradise, and later, Heaven if they were to die then. He also knew that if they didn't die, they likely might have been pariahs, or perhaps Israel might not have learned her lesson on those days. God knew that if He utterly destroyed everything that pertained to Dathan, that it would be a shocking wake-up call to the rest of Israel. He's got all kinds of mercy, longsuffering, etc... but there are certain things He will NOT tolerate by any means, and one of them is grossly breaking His Ten Commandments, not even two months after they were given, after they promised Him that they would do them.

Look at this from God's POV. You wrote with your own finger in stone 10 commandments. They stood before you and said "As You said, we will do." Then, you ask Moses to come up to the Mountain for 40 days for further instructions... and within those 40 days, they manage to break every single one of your 10 commandments just because they lacked faith that Moses would come back to them. This is after you made every attempt to show Israel your might. You used pillars of fire, clouds of shade, you made water flow out of rocks, you dropped bread from Heaven, you parted the Red Sea, you plagued Egypt and they lose faith in less than 40 days and entirely 180 turn away from you and do entirely detestable acts.

What would you do? Would you not be angry? Would you not want to wipe Dathan and his entire family off the planet to tell the rest of Israel that you will NOT tolerate such things happening in your holy nation?

The kids involved in that died, and normally that's a horrible thing... but yet kids get a free pass to Heaven because they were still innocent when they died. Whenever a person murders an innocent child, it's a truly heinous act, because God might have had plans for that child. However, when God causes a child's death... I see it as an act of mercy -- you know the child will go to Heaven and usually when that happens, I believe it happens for one of two reasons:

1). The child might have been lost otherwise,
2). It was a lesson to someone else.

In Jewish culture, genealogies are everything. The end of your family line was HUGE in ancient Jewish Culture (so big, Levirite Marriage was a thing -- if a married man died without offspring, the man's brother had an obligation to impregnate the widow to carry on the family line). If kids of Dathan had survived that catastrophy, Dathan's family line would have continued and God seemed to not want that. By destroying ALL of Dathan's house, God made a statement that He would entirely wipe them off the face of the planet if they did similar as to what Dathan did.


Ezekiel 13:18 , We are not supposed to make God sound like hes easy and soft, we are not supposed to soften Gods word to make it more acceptable and to peoples liking.
Those people who do that are in the wrong, And if Gods word chases people away. then that choice was theirs to make was it not?

We must speak Gods truth. And not candy coat it for people.
 
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Achilles6129

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He only killed those who were old enough to understand and to be in the conspiracy with their parents.

Actually that's not true at all in the narrative that we're considering above, nor is it true generally for the wrath and judgment of God. Consider the fact that God overthrew the entire cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Also consider the global flood. And, consider the book of Revelation.
 
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Achilles6129

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See, God doesn't care what you've done, if you're willing to repent. You could have raped 500 women and killed 500 babies and blasphemed Him 500 times and the moment you drop to your knees in front of Him and wholeheartedly and sincerely repent for your evil deeds, you will be forgiven.

What does this tell you about the nature of God?
 
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Shadowprophet

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Actually that's not true at all in the narrative that we're considering above, nor is it true generally for the wrath and judgment of God. Consider the fact that God overthrew the entire cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Also consider the global flood. And, consider the book of Revelation.

There is also this, 2 kings 2:23-25

Some children were scorning Elisha for being bald, And two bears came and killed them.
Through human eyes we see children as completely innocent, However, We are all born into sin and none of us are ever innocent.
 
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Achilles6129

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To look at those "little ones" lives as wasted would discredit Christ power over death. That sin demanded death thousands of years ago has been defeated and those children will be restored again. What else does God owe us; our lives always had an expiry date and had no promise of length. Although it is painful to watch loves ones die especially with children, death has no power over us and I would include those "little ones" in that statement.

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Interesting. I think that there are some theological implications in God destroying them the same way he destroyed their parents, but I'm just not sure what they are. I think that there's no question that they suffered before their deaths. I also think there's no question that the children during the times of the global flood suffered as well before their deaths. Does God perhaps make their suffering right later? But if so, why bring the suffering in the first place? Interesting questions.
 
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Achilles6129

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There is also this, 2 kings 2:23-25

Some children were scorning Elisha for being bald, And two bears came and killed them.
Through human eyes we see children as completely innocent, However, We are all born into sin and none of us are ever innocent.

Yes, I was thinking about that passage as well. However, I think that the word is actually translated "youths" instead of children, meaning that they were probably teenagers:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H5288&t=NASB
 
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Achilles6129

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Tragically our sin does not just affect us. It also has terrible consequences for those closest to us - especially those in our household. Dathan and Abiram defied the Lord and persisted in their defiance, refusing to swerve from their disobedience. In doing this they also brazenly exposed their families and little ones to the wrath of God. Adam did the same thing with all of his posterity (us included).

OK, I understand what you're saying, but let me ask you this: how do you think it's just for God to bring his wrath upon someone's offspring when those offspring haven't done anything to deserve his wrath?
 
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AmericanChristian91

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I would argue that God doesn't kill children even though there are stories in the bible which depict him doing that. Remember the books of the bible are also influenced by the views of the times (including morals). That is why your not going to get in the OT it being written that God thinks it's wrong to enslave foreigners, children are innocent and shouldn't be punished for the sins of fathers, mass murder is wrong, men and women should have equal rights, etc. Also note this is before people learned about Jesus and the mercy he shows to sinners and the love he wants us to show other people. Just as Jesus would not go around murdering sinners, neither would God. So from what my conscience says, the more clear picture of God in the NT, I would say God doesn't kill the "little ones".
 
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throughfiierytrial

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So here's the passage in question:

"25 Then Moses arose and went to Dathan and Abiram, with the elders of Israel following him, 26 and he spoke to the congregation, saying, “Depart now from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing that belongs to them, or you will be swept away in all their sin.” 27 So they got back from around the dwellings of Korah, Dathan and Abiram; and Dathan and Abiram came out and stood at the doorway of their tents, along with their wives and their sons and their little ones. 28 Moses said, “By this you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all these deeds; for this is not my doing. 29 If these men die the death of all men or if they suffer the fate of all men, then the Lord has not sent me. 30 But if the Lord brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the Lord.” 31 As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open; 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. 33 So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly. 34 All Israel who were around them fled at their outcry, for they said, “The earth may swallow us up!”" Num. 16:25-34 (NASB)

Now here's the question: why destroy the "little ones" (which I take to mean the small children) of Dathan/Abiram? It would have been easy for their lives to have been spared by God. So why did God destroy them along with Dathan and Abiram? I find this to be a very interesting theological question and I'd appreciate any input. I'm thinking that God may destroy the children of the wicked not as punishment against the children but as punishment against the wicked. Thoughts?

God says in Exodus...
Exodus 34:7:

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. (KJV)

I know however that the question is why???. In O.T. this was so, but under Christ there is a change of the covenant and this is in fact vividly prophesied:

Jeremiah 31:29-30:
“In those days people will no longer say,
‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge. (NIV)

...and again...

Ezekiel 18:2-4:
“What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:
“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
“As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die. (NIV)

Why God punished the children with the parents I do not know for sure, but it was part of His O.T. Law and He governed accordingly. It appears that only after Christ were we to be punished individually. Or does Exodus 34:7 above mean the sins were also passed down, meaning was there a perpetuation of these sins? Our sinful nature is acquired this way...it was passed down from Eve who became the mother of all the living. If this is so then the punishment was meant to wipe out that sin of rebellion it would seem, but???
 
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AmericanChristian91

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So the things in the OT are myths then, and not divinely inspired by God?
I never said God didn't give the authors of the OT inspiration. All I'm saying is that God inspiring doesn't mean the moral views (seen as immoral from a 21st century perspective) of the time/authors and there more violent view of how God acts towards people are ignored. The flaws of mans understanding can still enter the bible even though God is using them for his will. Similar to how God uses a flawed humanity, even flawed Christians to carry out his will. Also God could still have inspiration be used to create a myth.
 
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