Futurist Only Damascus and animals

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keras

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This (like Isaiah 62:4) is about the future, blessed time of the millennium (Isaiah 30:18-26). The bright sun in Isaiah 30:26 is a good thing, just as the bright moon and the healing in Isaiah 30:26 are good things.
I notice you write out passages in KJV speak, but not this one.
Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days.....KJV
So your opinion is: that will be a good thing? The Hebrew word 'aur' does mean light, but heat accompanies the sun's light.
Ambient temperature = 20c X 7 = 140c Oven cooking heat, exactly as Malachi 4:1 says it will be.
Isaiah 47:14 But they are like stubble, the fire burns them up they cannot escape the flames. It isn't a glowing coal to warm them, not a fire to sit by! Revised English Bible
That this describes an explosion of the sun, a Coronal Mass Ejection of an unprecedented magnitude is confirmed by the many other prophesies, including Revelation 6:12-17, that describe an event that can only be literally fulfilled by a CME.
You may wish to deny this truth, but that simply means you have failed to understand the prophesies and rejected God's Plans.
There will be another, smaller CME at the 4th Bowl.

What rubbish to think Ezekiel 20:46-48 refers to the Congo! Just look at Ezekiel 21:1-7, the fire is specifically against the Land of Israel.
Note that nothing requires that.
"You will know that I am the Lord"... is repeated several times. Why? Because He isn't physically with them yet.
 
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keras said in post 261:

The Hebrew word 'aur' does mean light, but heat accompanies the sun's light.

That's right, but God would be able to not increase the infrared frequencies which relay heat, while increasing the visible frequencies.

keras said in post 261:

Malachi 4:1

This can refer to the 2nd coming (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), before the millennium of Isaiah 30:23-26.

keras said in post 261:

Isaiah 47:14 But they are like stubble, the fire burns them up they cannot escape the flames. It isn't a glowing coal to warm them, not a fire to sit by!

Isaiah 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

This refers to the destruction of Babylon (Isaiah 47:1), and so brings to mind Revelation 17:16/Revelation 16:19.

keras said in post 261:

That this describes an explosion of the sun, a Coronal Mass Ejection of an unprecedented magnitude is confirmed by the many other prophesies, including Revelation 6:12-17 . . .

Isaiah 47:14 could be fulfilled by nukes, and Revelation 6:12-17 by a huge volcano.

keras said in post 261:

There will be another, smaller CME at the 4th Bowl.

Revelation 16:8 could be the only CME.

keras said in post 261:

Ezekiel 21:1-7

This can refer to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 261:

"You will know that I am the Lord"... is repeated several times. Why? Because He isn't physically with them yet.

Note that nothing requires that. For example, compare Ezekiel 39:22, which won't be fulfilled until after the future millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-10). Ezekiel 39:22 means that near the end of the safe time of the future millennium (Ezekiel 38:11), the mortal Israelites living on the earth will have become complacent and backslidden away from God (Ezekiel 39:26,7). So, after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), as a punishment, God will let them be taken into captivity (Ezekiel 39:23-29) during the Gog/Magog time (Ezekiel 38:11-13). God will then bring judgment against Gog and Magog, and the mortal Israelites will return to being faithful to God (Ezekiel 39:21-29).
 
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Bible2+, I commend your persistence, but we need to sort out a few things before continuing our conversation.
You promote the KJV Bible. You must prove that it is superior to later translations, before discounting them. Remember that The KJV is dedicated to the High and Mighty King James, Your Most Sacred Majesty and to the Church of England. It base is the Textus Receptus and later Jewish scrolls. It is written in 1600's vernacular.
Modern translations have the benefit of a much wider scholarship and the use of far more ancient manuscripts.
I ask that you give valid reasons for thinking the KJV is the only Bible we should use. Why shouldn't a Bible translated by godly people today, be at least equal to the one translated by godly men 400 years ago?

You make assertions and post you opinions, without adequate support for them.
I ask that you cease such guesswork and provide facts in your responses.
For example, in #262, you say the CME that is prophesied in Isaiah 30:26, will have no heat, but the one at the 4th Bowl will!
Unfortunately your entire end times scenario is seriously flawed. You have the Israelites picking up the bones and weapons of Gog in Eternity?
You have failed to understand that God always intended to have a people in His holy Land, who would be His witness and a light to the nations. This has not happened yet, but it will. God will be with His people spiritually and they will know He is their Lord. Isaiah 30:21
That those people will inhabit all of the holy Land is certain from many prophesies and there will be difficult times for them, of testing, before Jesus Returns. Daniel 7:25, Daniel 11:29-35, Revelation 13:7, Revelation 12:17
 
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keras said in post 263:

You promote the KJV Bible.

Some other versions of the Bible aren't translations of the original Hebrew and Greek words, but are more like paraphrased interpretations, which when checked against the original Hebrew and Greek words (by using, for example, a Strong's Concordance and Hebrew and Greek Dictionary) say something completely different than the original, inspired text. The KJV is a fairly literal translation, and so usually avoids this problem. Also, the words of the KJV aren't constantly changing, like how new editions of the NIV are always coming out with some of the words changed. So you can remember key words and phrases in the KJV and use a Strong's Concordance (which is tied to the KJV) to help you find a particular verse that you are thinking of.

keras said in post 263:

Modern translations have the benefit of a much wider scholarship and the use of far more ancient manuscripts.

It has never been proven that the Textus Receptus (the Greek text on which the KJV is based) is less reliable than any other text, or that it is not the most reliable text of all.

One of the key old manuscripts which the NIV, for example, is based on, was found in a trash heap in a monastery on Mount Sinai. No doubt it had been thrown in the trash because it was a such a faulty copy (i.e. because it skipped over too many words, and even skipped over whole verses and passages). And yet modern "scholars" try to claim the opposite: that a manuscript thrown in the trash must be one of the "most reliable" of all.

keras said in post 263:

. . . you say the CME that is prophesied in Isaiah 30:26, will have no heat, but the one at the 4th Bowl will!

Note that it hasn't been said that Isaiah 30:26 is a CME.

keras said in post 263:

You have the Israelites picking up the bones and weapons of Gog in Eternity?

No, Ezekiel 39:14-16 will take place only up until the great white throne judgment.

Also, while the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-15), note that nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after that event. For there will be at least 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the end of that event and the great white throne judgment.

keras said in post 263:

God always intended to have a people in His holy Land, who would be His witness and a light to the nations.

Isaiah 42:6 and Isaiah 49:6 began to be fulfilled at Jesus' 1st coming (Luke 2:32, Acts 26:23) and his sending forth of his apostles to the Gentiles (Acts 13:47).

keras said in post 263:

Isaiah 30:21

This, in its context (Isaiah 30:18-26), can refer to the millennium.

keras said in post 263:

Daniel 7:25

This, like Daniel 7:21 and Daniel 12:7b, refers to the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast (Revelation 13:4-18), which reign will occur during the 2nd half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

keras said in post 263:

Daniel 11:29-35

This refers to right before and during the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign.

keras said in post 263:

Revelation 13:7

This refers to the same 3.5 years (Revelation 13:5b).

keras said in post 263:

Revelation 12:17

This refers to the same 3.5 years (Revelation 12:14b).
 
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keras

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Some other versions of the Bible aren't translations of the original Hebrew and Greek words, but are more like paraphrased interpretations, which when checked against the original Hebrew and Greek words (by using, for example, a Strong's Concordance and Hebrew and Greek Dictionary) say something completely different than the original, inspired text. The KJV is a fairly literal translation, and so usually avoids this problem
Yes, there are some Bibles that are quite unsuitable and even detrimental to correct understanding, The Scofield and the J.W Bibles are examples.
However most other translations are genuine efforts to present the true Word of God and my favorite is the Revised English Bible, Oxford Press 1989. A clear and accurate version, in modern English.
The KJV does contain many errors and the archaic language is a hindrance and many words have changed their meaning.
So you can remember key words and phrases in the KJV and use a Strong's Concordance (which is tied to the KJV) to help you find a particular verse that you are thinking of.
I can do that with my Bible. I usually remember the placement of a verse, so I can locate it quickly. I use the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer as well as Strongs for checking the Hebrew and Greek words.
Note that it hasn't been said that Isaiah 30:26 is a CME.
Unless anyone comes up with another valid and plausible explanation, it must be a Coronal Mass Ejection. A huge sun explosion: CME, would literally cause all the prophesied effects. In no way is Malachi 4:1-6 at the Return of Jesus. Is the Return 'the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord'? No, the Return is the Great Day of the Lord Almighty. Revelation 16:14
No, Ezekiel 39:14-16 will take place only up until the great white throne judgment.
Your only reason for thinking this wrong theory, is where Gog/Magog is mentioned in Revelation 20:8. This reference is merely describing a type of a huge attacking army. That time the armies come from all over the world, but in Ezekiel 38.39, they only come from the North.
The G/M attack against New Israel, just recently established in all of the holy Land: Ezekiel 38:8 making their home in the midst of the Land acquiring livestock and goods.... Ezekiel 38:12b simply doesn't fit with the time at the end of the Millennium. It must happen before the Return, as the Lord does it in order to show Himself great and holy and to make Himself known to many peoples. Ezekiel 38:23
Isaiah 42:6 and Isaiah 49:6 began to be fulfilled at Jesus' 1st coming (Luke 2:32, Acts 26:23) and his sending forth of his apostles to the Gentiles (Acts 13:47).
Christian people are the Lord's witnesses and we are all called to display the Light of Salvation to our neighbours. But we have yet to go and live in the holy Land. This will happen, as so extensively prophesied.
This, in its context (Isaiah 30:18-26), can refer to the millennium.
The context of Isaiah 30:21 is not Millennial. We will not need a voice behind us saying the right way to go then, but we will before the Return of Jesus.
This, like Daniel 7:21 and Daniel 12:7b, refers to the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist, the individual-man aspect of the beast (Revelation 13:4-18), which reign will occur during the 2nd half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
Yes they do, my point was they confirm that the holy people of God are present in the holy Land by then. They will go there to live soon after the Land is cleared and cleansed by the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, the Sixth seal disaster by fire.
This refers to right before and during the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign.
Correct. Daniel 11:29-35 and Revelation 13:7 & 12:17 are another confirmation of where God's people are by then. The AC will conquer them, but some wise leaders will guide the people as they are tested and refined. As you say: this will happen in the last 3.5 years before the Return of Jesus.

Ezekiel 22:15-16 I will disperse you Israelites among the nations, scattered over all the earth. I shall sift you to get rid of your defilement. Deut. 29:28, Amos 9:9-10
[The exile of Israel and Judah from the Holy Land was done in ancient times. Throughout the ages, righteous people have kept the faith and shone the light of the Gospel around the world and now we look expectantly for the fulfilment of the wonderful promises to all those who love the Lord and keep His commandments.]


Ezekiel 22:17-22 To the Lord, all of the House of Israel are but a debased alloy. So I shall gather you all into the Holy Land, as metal is refined in a crucible. I will fan the fire of My anger and wrath until you are melted. You will know that I the Lord, have poured out My anger upon you. Isaiah 41:1-10
[This forthcoming fire judgement will affect the whole world, then as Ezekiel 20:34-38...I shall take you Israelites out of the nations.....gather you and judge you....those who rebel against Me will not enter the Land. Deuteronomy 30:1-10]


Ezekiel 22:24 The Lord says to the land of Israel: You have become like a land on which no rain has fallen, on the Day of My wrath. Zephaniah 1:18, Ezekiel 20:47-48
[The Holy Land becomes ‘scorched and untrodden’ - Jeremiah 9:10-11. ...’dry and ruined, for fire has burned the trees and pastures’ - Joel 1:15-20]


Ezekiel 22:25-29 The leaders in the land are like lions that take what they want and the priests give rulings that violate My Laws, they profane what is sacred. The people do not keep My Sabbaths in truth and God is dishonoured among them. Their prophets and seers speak lies and the common people use extortion and commit robbery, oppressing the poor and the alien, denying them justice.
[This is the situation worldwide, but particularly in all the area of the Holy Land. Jeremiah 25:29-30, Isaiah 22:12-14, Ezekiel 7:2-4]

Ezekiel 22:30-31 The Lord searches for anyone righteous who could stand before Him and plead for the people, to avert the destruction of the Land, but no such person can be found. Ezekiel 6:11-12 So the Lord will pour out His wrath upon them and utterly consume them in His blazing anger, thus bringing down upon them the punishment they deserve.
Ref: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.


The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath.

This Day is described over 100 times in the Bible and is clearly prophesied to be a Coronal Mass Ejection sunstrike. Isaiah 30:26....the sun will shine with seven times its normal brightness. Psalms 50:1-6
All that area of Greater Israel will be cleared and cleansed and after that many prophecies say how the Land will be quickly regenerated, then how the Lord’s people will gather and settle there. Great will be the Day!
 
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keras said in post 265:

Unless anyone comes up with another valid and plausible explanation, it must be a Coronal Mass Ejection.

Note that Isaiah 30:26 can simply mean that God will cause the sun to burn brighter.

keras said in post 265:

In no way is Malachi 4:1-6 at the Return of Jesus. Is the Return 'the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord'? No, the Return is the Great Day of the Lord Almighty. Revelation 16:14

Note that those can refer to the same day.

But regarding Malachi 4:1-6, note that only verses 1-3 would apply to Jesus' 2nd coming (cf. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), whereas the coming of Elijah referred to in Malachi 4:5-6 was fulfilled by the coming of John the Baptist in the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17, Matthew 11:14).

Also, Malachi 4:4 was spoken back when the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was still in effect. It doesn't apply to today, or to anytime in our future. For on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and shouldn't keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18-19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus' New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30), while the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). And the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Leviticus 23:19), while the New Covenant replaced these with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:22-25), so that those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:22-31).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the 10 commandments) written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8) was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14, and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8.

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been completely and forever done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it is still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:14-16), while the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8-9b) which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b), and which permits believers to remove the veil and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (Acts 15:1,5), or in order to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any believers are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

keras said in post 265:

Your only reason for thinking this wrong theory, is where Gog/Magog is mentioned in Revelation 20:8. This reference is merely describing a type of a huge attacking army. That time the armies come from all over the world, but in Ezekiel 38.39, they only come from the North.

Note that armies from all over the world can still come from the north, if they first gather together there. So the Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) can occur after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the millennium, all present-day weapons of war throughout the world will be destroyed and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That is why after the millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He will be the chief leader of a future country which will form somewhere north of Israel (Ezekiel 39:2, Ezekiel 38:15), and which will be called "Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2). It will include at least 2 major cities and/or tribes which will be called "Meshech" and "Tubal" (Ezekiel 38:2). This country could come into existence during the millennium. Gog could be born near the end of the millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:11).

Both accounts of the Gog/Magog event show that the Gog/Magog armies will ultimately be completely defeated by miraculous fire from heaven (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9).

Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus' worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack before the millennium, at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

And Jerusalem could be attacked and totally defeated in the future at least 3 times before the millennium: once near the start of the future tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 38:12b simply doesn't fit with the time at the end of the Millennium.

Note that it can, for there is no "recently" there.

keras said in post 265:

It must happen before the Return, as the Lord does it in order to show Himself great and holy and to make Himself known to many peoples. Ezekiel 38:23

Note that Ezekiel 38:23 doesn't require that it is pre-2nd-coming. For the nations could become complacent near the end of the peaceful millennium, so that they will need to be reminded who is Lord.

keras said in post 265:

But we have yet to go and live in the holy Land.

That's right.

For if even those who are "strangers" in Israel can inherit the land of Israel (Ezekiel 47:21-23), then certainly believing Gentiles, who are "no more strangers" to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19), will inherit the land of Israel during the future millennium of Revelation 20:4-6. And they will inherit the land and all the other promises given to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:29, Genesis 12:7) along with all the elect Jews who have ever been saved in the past or who will get saved in our future, including at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:25-32).

Also (despite the claims of preterism and amillennialism), God still has regard for the land of Israel (as in Deuteronomy 32:43,49b), and Jerusalem especially (as in Isaiah 62:6-7, Psalms 122:6). For even during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:5-18), the earthly Jerusalem will still be considered by God to be the holy city (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24), the holy mountain (Daniel 11:45, Daniel 9:16). And after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming, it will be to the Mount of Olives just east of the walled Old City of Jerusalem that Jesus will descend (Zechariah 14:4-21, Acts 1:11-12). And then Jesus will rule the whole earth from the earthly Jerusalem during the millennium (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-21, Revelation 20:4-6).

Also, with regard to the Biblical, geographical extent of "the land of Israel", it doesn't (as is sometimes claimed) include everything between the Nile and the Euphrates. People quite understandably mistake "the river of Egypt" (Genesis 15:18) as being the Nile, when actually it is a wadi near Gaza which forms the border between the promised land and Egypt (Joshua 15:47,3-4). In this way, the promised land excludes the harsh deserts of Sinai.

Also, the promised land doesn't extend from the vicinity of Gaza eastward to the Euphrates, so that Israel would include northern Jordan and western Iraq, because the eastern border of the promised land runs between Damascus and the Dead Sea (Ezekiel 47:18).

So instead of extending from the vicinity of Gaza eastward to the Euphrates, the promised land extends from the vicinity of Gaza northward through Lebanon to the Euphrates in northern Syria, so that the promised land includes Lebanon and the region of Hamath (1 Kings 8:65), in the northwestern part of Syria.

In this way, the promised land includes the western part of the "Fertile Crescent", and excludes the harsh deserts of northern Jordan, eastern Syria, and western Iraq.

keras said in post 265:

The context of Isaiah 30:21 is not Millennial. We will not need a voice behind us saying the right way to go then, but we will before the Return of Jesus.

Note that the returned Jesus won't be everywhere physically, so we will still need the direction of his Spirit when we are away from him physically.

keras said in post 265:

Yes they do, my point was they confirm that the holy people of God are present in the holy Land by then.

Actually, verses like Daniel 7:25 can apply to believers throughout the world, just as Revelation 13:7 and Matthew 24:9 do.

keras said in post 265:

They will go there to live soon after the Land is cleared and cleansed by the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, the Sixth seal disaster by fire.

Actually, we won't live there until the millennium. And note that nothing requires that the 6th seal is actually God's wrath.

keras said in post 265:

Daniel 11:29-35 and Revelation 13:7 & 12:17 are another confirmation of where God's people are by then.

Note that none of these verses require that the church will have gone to Israel by that time. And Daniel 11:30c,32a can refer to formerly-Orthodox Jews in Israel who will apostatize and follow the Antichrist to keep from being killed by him.

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 22:15-16 I will disperse you Israelites among the nations, scattered over all the earth. I shall sift you to get rid of your defilement.

Ezekiel 22:15 And I will scatter thee among the heathen, and disperse thee in the countries, and will consume thy filthiness out of thee.
16 And thou shalt take thine inheritance in thyself in the sight of the heathen, and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.

This can refer to Jews after the destruction of Jerusalem (cf. Ezekiel 22:2) by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

Deut. 29:28

This can refer to the captivity of Israel at the destruction of Samaria in 722 BC (2 Kings 17:6).

keras said in post 265:

Amos 9:9-10

This could occur at Jesus' 2nd coming, for Amos 9:11-15 refers to the millennium.

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 22:17-22 To the Lord, all of the House of Israel are but a debased alloy. So I shall gather you all into the Holy Land, as metal is refined in a crucible. I will fan the fire of My anger and wrath until you are melted. You will know that I the Lord, have poured out My anger upon you.

Ezekiel 22:17 ¶And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
18 Son of man, the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are even the dross of silver.
19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.
20 As they gather silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you.
21 Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof.
22 As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the LORD have poured out my fury upon you.

This can refer to the destruction of Jerusalem (verse 19) by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

Isaiah 41:1-10

Isaiah 41:2 can refer to Cyrus (Isaiah 45:1, Isaiah 44:28; 2 Chronicles 36:23), who restored the Jews to their land after the Babylonian Captivity.

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 20:34-38...I shall take you Israelites out of the nations.....gather you and judge you....those who rebel against Me will not enter the Land.

Ezekiel 20:34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

This will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming, and can refer to Jesus judging the surviving, genetic Israelites who didn't get saved before the 2nd coming (cf. also Ezekiel 34:11-16).

keras said in post 265:

Deuteronomy 30:1-10

Deuteronomy 30:6, like Deuteronomy 10:16 and Jeremiah 4:4, refers to spiritual circumcision during the (now past) time of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Deuteronomy 30:8,10-11, Deuteronomy 10:13, Jeremiah 6:19). There is spiritual circumcision also during the (now present) time of the New Covenant (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 22:24 The Lord says to the land of Israel: You have become like a land on which no rain has fallen, on the Day of My wrath.

Ezekiel 22:24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.

Here "the day of indignation" can refer to the destruction of the land by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

Zephaniah 1:18

Zephaniah 1:14-18 refers to an ancient day of the Lord, like, for example, the ancient day of the Lord in Jeremiah 46:2,10. In its context, Zephaniah 1:14-18 was prophesying the destruction of the land of ancient Judah and neighboring countries (Zephaniah 1:4 to 2:5) by the Babylonians in the 6th century BC.

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 20:47-48

Here "the forest of the south" brings to mind the vast Congo forest, which is south of the Middle East, where Ezekiel was located when he received this prophecy (Ezekiel 20:45-47). The Congo forest could be burned by "flaming flame" (Ezekiel 20:47) at Jesus' 2nd coming in "flaming fire" (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

keras said in post 265:

Jeremiah 9:10-11

Jeremiah 9:7-22 could refer to Judah's destruction by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

Joel 1:15-20

Joel 1:18-20 could refer to an ancient, severe drought, and resulting wildfires, which affected the Israelites in their land.

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 22:25-29 The leaders in the land are like lions that take what they want and the priests give rulings that violate My Laws, they profane what is sacred. The people do not keep My Sabbaths in truth and God is dishonoured among them. Their prophets and seers speak lies and the common people use extortion and commit robbery, oppressing the poor and the alien, denying them justice.

Ezekiel 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.
29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

This can refer to the land before its destruction by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

Jeremiah 25:29-30

Jeremiah 25:29b-38 could refer to Jesus' 2nd coming. For compare the shout and treading of Jeremiah 25:30b with the 2nd-coming shout and treading of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 19:15b. And compare the giving of the wicked to the sword in Jeremiah 25:31b with the 2nd-coming giving of the wicked to the sword in Revelation 19:21.

keras said in post 265:

Isaiah 22:12-14

This could refer to Jerusalem (Isaiah 22:9-11) before its destruction by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 7:2-4

This can refer to the destruction of the land by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 22:30-31 The Lord searches for anyone righteous who could stand before Him and plead for the people, to avert the destruction of the Land, but no such person can be found.

Ezekiel 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.

This can refer to the destruction of the land by the Babylonians in 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

Ezekiel 6:11-12 So the Lord will pour out His wrath upon them and utterly consume them in His blazing anger, thus bringing down upon them the punishment they deserve.

Ezekiel 6:11 ¶Thus saith the Lord GOD; Smite with thine hand, and stamp with thy foot, and say, Alas for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! for they shall fall by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence.
12 He that is far off shall die of the pestilence; and he that is near shall fall by the sword; and he that remaineth and is besieged shall die by the famine: thus will I accomplish my fury upon them.

This can refer to 586 BC.

keras said in post 265:

The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath.

Revelation 19:15

keras said in post 265:

This Day is described over 100 times in the Bible and is clearly prophesied to be a Coronal Mass Ejection sunstrike.

Note that nothing in the Bible requires a CME, except possibly Revelation 16:8.

keras said in post 265:

Isaiah 30:26....the sun will shine with seven times its normal brightness.

Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

This (like Isaiah 62:4) is about the future, blessed time of the millennium (Isaiah 30:18-26). The bright sun in Isaiah 30:26 is a good thing, just as the bright moon and the healing in Isaiah 30:26 are good things.

keras said in post 265:

Psalms 50:1-6

Psalms 50:3 refers to Jesus' 2nd coming in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), just as Psalms 50:4-5 refers to what will happen at his 2nd coming (Mark 13:27).

keras said in post 265:

All that area of Greater Israel will be cleared and cleansed and after that many prophecies say how the Land will be quickly regenerated, then how the Lord’s people will gather and settle there. Great will be the Day!

Indeed. The 2nd coming and the millennium.
 
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Bible2+ your replies are simply your opinions and surmise. They do not correlate with history or with God's Plans, as the prophets describe. You just ignore my refutations and inconsiderately repeat your false beliefs. Anyone can see that the sun shining as seven days in one, won't be pleasant or beneficial.
Your premise of there being only one Day of the Lord and the Day of wrath and the Day of Jesus' Return, happens more or less simultaneously, is wrong. The descriptions of those events, just don't fit together.
Also, there have been previous 'Days' that the Lord has acted and will again at the end of the Millennium.

The Lord's people, be they descendants of Jacob or grafted in to Israel, will be motivated to gather into all of the holy Land BEFORE the Return of Jesus. This is proved by the many prophesies saying how they will travel, Isaiah 66:20, Psalms 107:1-32, Isaiah 60:9, Jeremiah 31:8-9, a physical transportation, not a spiritual gathering as at the Return: Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:17
See how Ezekiel 34:11-16 describes this gathering, to happen after the Day of cloud and darkness. Revelation 6:12-14
Ezekiel 35:1-15 & Ezekiel 36:1-7, describes the Judgement of the peoples surrounding Israel. Those peoples who have kept up their ancient feud and who love blood and death. They will be wiped out in the Lord's Day of wrath. Psalms 83:1-18, Micah 4:11-12, Jeremiah 12:14
Then the great chapter of Ezekiel 36:8-38, where the Lord will regenerate the holy Land and settle His people there. Note in verses 37-38, that the Lord says they will be able to pray to Him for help and: Then they will know that I am their God. This phrase is repeated 53 times in Ezekiel 1-39 and can be understood in no other way than by the fact that the Lord is not physically present on earth as yet. Ezekiel 40-48 is all about the period between the Lord's Day of wrath and the Return.
Ezekiel 37 describes the joining of all the Lord's people and their spiritual regeneration. Ezekiel 37:14 Then I shall put My Spirit in you and you will come into life, I will settle you into your own Land and [by these actions] you will know that I the Lord have spoken it and has performed these things. This is the Word of the Lord.
This is in accordance with what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10:1-11... where Jesus was in the cloud that accompanied the ancient Israelites and what happened to them was symbolic and was recorded for us, upon whom the end of the age has come.
The Lord won't be seen on His Day of retribution and wrath: Romans 1:18, Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4, or when His people are living in the holy Land. The Shekinah Glory will come into the new Temple. Ezekiel 43:2
That Day of fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis will change the world and will enable the fulfilment of Ezekiel's prophesies, reiterated by all the other prophets, including Jesus, Revelation 7:9, of how the Lord's true believers will live as He always wanted them to, in His Land. There will be more testing to come for them and the rest of the world, but all who hold firm to their faith will see Jesus Return and be with Him during the Millennium.
 
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keras said in post 267:

Anyone can see that the sun shining as seven days in one, won't be pleasant or beneficial.

Actually, it is in the context of beneficial things (Isaiah 30:18-26).

keras said in post 267:

Your premise of there being only one Day of the Lord and the Day of wrath and the Day of Jesus' Return, happens more or less simultaneously, is wrong. The descriptions of those events, just don't fit together.

Note that regarding 2 Peter 3:10-13, for example, in the day of the Lord will occur the destruction of heaven (the 1st heaven: the sky/atmosphere) and the earth (its surface) at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11, Revelation 21:1). And this will be followed by the creation of a new atmosphere and surface for the earth (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) onto which New Jerusalem, God the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:2-3), will descend from the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3).

But the day of the Lord won't immediately bring the destruction of earth's atmosphere and surface. For the day of the Lord will begin at Jesus' still-unfulfilled 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8) as a thief (2 Peter 3:10a, Revelation 16:15). And after his 2nd coming, he will establish his kingdom physically on the earth with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21).

And after the 1,000 years, the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). And after its defeat, at least 7 more years will occur (Ezekiel 39:9b), before the earth's atmosphere and surface are destroyed at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). All these events, from Jesus' 2nd coming to the great white throne judgment, will be part of the day of the Lord. For it is not a 24-hour day, but to God is like a 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).

keras said in post 267:

Also, there have been previous 'Days' that the Lord has acted and will again at the end of the Millennium.

Regarding there having been previous days of the Lord, that's right (e.g. Jeremiah 46:2,10).

keras said in post 267:

The Lord's people, be they descendants of Jacob or grafted in to Israel, will be motivated to gather into all of the holy Land BEFORE the Return of Jesus.

Some have always been motivated to do so. It is for this reason that, for example, regarding "Judaea" in Matthew 24:16, this doesn't have to mean 1st century AD Judaea. For there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today. They contain mostly Gentile believers, not just Jewish believers. The church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the church, both Gentiles and Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist's persecution of the church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up, and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the church (not in hiding) will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), so that the basic principle of Matthew 24:16, of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution), would apply to believers around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different, protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15), they should flee into places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the church who will be living in places in the world other than Judaea should flee into other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all the emergency supplies of canned food, bottled water, warm clothing and bedding, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

keras said in post 267:

Isaiah 66:20

This refers to the millennium.

keras said in post 267:

Psalms 107:1-32

Psalms 107:3 could refer to the start of the millennium.

Psalms 107:16 could refer, as one example, to the same thing as Matthew 16:18b, which meant that the literal gates of Hades wouldn't prevail against the "rock" in Matthew 16:18, which is Jesus himself (Matthew 16:16b,18b), the rock/stone on whom the church/New Covenant Israel is built (Ephesians 2:20, Matthew 16:18b; 1 Peter 2:6), the rock/stone who was rejected and crucified (Romans 9:33, Acts 4:11; 1 Peter 2:4,8), the same rock/Christ who followed Old Covenant Israel/the church in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4-5, cf. Acts 7:38), and the same rock/Christ revered by New Covenant Israel/the church (1 Peter 2:4-10).

That is, Matthew 16:18 was prophesying of when the literal gates of Hades wouldn't prevail against Jesus (Psalms 107:16), when, after his resurrection, he went down and liberated the souls of the dead Old Testament saints from Hades (1 Peter 4:6; 1 Peter 3:18c-19, Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).

keras said in post 267:

Psalms 107:1-32

Psalms 107:17-21 applies to any time the Lord heals someone from a deadly disease.

Psalms 107:29 was fulfilled by Mark 4:39, for example.

keras said in post 267:

Isaiah 60:9

This can refer to the millennium (cf. Micah 4:1-4).

keras said in post 267:

Jeremiah 31:8-9

This can refer to the start of the millennium.

keras said in post 267:

. . . a physical transportation, not a spiritual gathering as at the Return: Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:17

These 2 verses are only for those saved before the 2nd coming.

keras said in post 267:

Ezekiel 34:11-16

This can refer to after Jesus' 2nd coming, at the start of the millennium, when he will gather to Israel all the surviving, elect genetic Israelites from around the world who didn't get saved before the 2nd coming (cf. also Ezekiel 20:34-38).

keras said in post 267:

See how Ezekiel 34:11-16 describes this gathering, to happen after the Day of cloud and darkness.

Ezekiel 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

This cloudy and dark day could be a figurative reference to the tribulation generally. And note that afterward, here "he is among his sheep", i.e. he has returned.

keras said in post 267:

Revelation 6:12-14

This could be fulfilled in our future by a huge volcanic eruption (possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera) which will occur during only the 1st stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This eruption could begin with a large earthquake (Revelation 6:12), signaling the sudden rising of magma within the volcano. When it erupts, it could shoot so much ash and smoke into the sky that the sun will appear darkened and the moon blood-red (Revelation 6:12b), like happens during large forest fires. The volcano could also shoot blobs of red-hot magma into the sky, which as they fall back down could appear like falling stars (Revelation 6:13). And it could shoot so much super-heated ash and smoke so high and so quickly into the sky that they could form a gigantic mushroom cloud which will make the sky (the 1st heaven) look like a scroll being rolled up (Revelation 6:14). Earthquakes connected with the eruption could be so large that they set off a chain reaction of other earthquakes in nearby faults and volcanoes, which could set off even more earthquakes further away, and so on, so that earthquakes will end up affecting every mountain and island, moving each of their positions at least a little bit (Revelation 6:14b).

keras said in post 267:

Ezekiel 35:1-15

This could refer to the same thing as Isaiah 34:1-17. That is, just as Isaiah 34:4 refers to a future event which will affect "all nations" (Isaiah 34:2), the whole world (Isaiah 34:1), so in Isaiah 34:5, "Idumea" (Edom) isn't the ancient nation of Edom (present-day southern Jordan), but represents all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world, just as Paul the apostle employs a reference to the man "Esau" (also called Edom: Genesis 25:30, Genesis 36:1) to represent all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world (Romans 9:11-22). And in Isaiah 34:6, "Bozrah" isn't the ancient city of Bozrah, but represents the corrupt civilizations of the nonelect people of all times throughout the world, just as the "Babylon" which will be destroyed in our future in Revelation chapters 17-18 isn't the literal, ancient city of Babylon (nor the present-day one, in Iraq), but represents the corrupt civilizations of the nonelect people of all times throughout the world.

Isaiah 34 doesn't refer to the destruction of the ancient city of Bozrah. For its territory is in present-day Jordan, and it is still inhabited (it could be the city of Busaira). It is not an eternally-burning land of fire and brimstone which no living person ever passes through and won't ever pass through for all eternity (Isaiah 34:9-10).

Isaiah 34 won't be fulfilled until the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), when the present surface of the earth and its atmosphere (the 1st heaven) will pass away (Revelation 20:11). And all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world will be judged and cast into the eternal lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:15,10, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 14:10-11).

keras said in post 267:

Ezekiel 36:1-7

Ezekiel chapters 36-37 could refer to a restoration of the Jews to their land during the future millennium.

The fire in Ezekiel 36:5 could refer to the same fire as 2 Thessalonians 1:8, which will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which will occur right before the millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

keras said in post 267:

Psalms 83:1-18

If Psalms 83 wasn't referring to a threat against Israel in the time of Asaph (the author of Psalms 83), but to some future event, it may not happen until the Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39), which won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10).

keras said in post 267:

Micah 4:11-12

Regarding this in its context, Micah 4:9-13, if Micah 4:9-10 wasn't a prophecy of the Babylonian Captivity of the Jews in the 6th century BC, then Micah 4:9-13 could refer to what will happen right before, at, and after Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14).

keras said in post 267:

Jeremiah 12:14

This can refer to the destruction of the pagan nations neighboring ancient Judah, as well as ancient Judah itself, by the Babylonians in 586 BC. Jeremiah 12:15 can then refer to Judah's subsequent return from the Babylonian Captivity.

keras said in post 267:

Then the great chapter of Ezekiel 36:8-38, where the Lord will regenerate the holy Land and settle His people there. Note in verses 37-38, that the Lord says they will be able to pray to Him for help and: Then they will know that I am their God. This phrase is repeated 53 times by Ezekiel and can be understood in no other way than by the fact that the Lord is not physically present on earth as yet.

Note that nothing about that phrase requires that the Lord will not have returned by that point.

keras said in post 267:

Ezekiel 40-48 is all about the period between the Lord's day of wrath and the return.

Note that the Lord's day of wrath will be at his return (Revelation 19:15). And Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen, like those in Revelation must happen (Revelation 1:1), but could have been a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still in Old Testament/Old Covenant times (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Ezekiel 43:21-22), which were abolished by Jesus on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23).

Nonetheless, when Jesus returns and begins his millennial reign on the earth (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:3-21), he will still build a New Covenant, 4th temple building in Jerusalem; and New Covenant animal sacrifices will be offered in front of that temple (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). Instead of these sacrifices being for sin, they could be for thanksgiving (cf. Leviticus 22:29). Jesus could build that temple, and it could be operated according to the description in Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48, but leaving out the parts about animal sacrifices for sin. Another possibility is that New Covenant animal sacrifices for sin will be made, but only as a remembrance of Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28), like how communion is currently partaken of in remembrance of Jesus' sacrifice (Luke 22:19). The current practice of communion could cease at Jesus' return (1 Corinthians 11:26).

Also, after the millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), when the literal city of New Jerusalem will land on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3), there will no longer be any temple building (Revelation 21:22).

keras said in post 267:

Ezekiel 37 describes the joining of all the Lord's people and their spiritual regeneration. Ezekiel 37:14 Then I shall put My Spirit in you and you will come into life, I will settle you into your own Land and [by these actions] you will know that I the Lord have spoken it and has performed these things. This is the Word of the Lord.
This is in accordance with what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10:1-11... where Jesus was in the cloud that accompanied the ancient Israelites and what happened to them was symbolic and was recorded for us, upon whom the end of the age has come.

Note that Ezekiel 37 can be millennial.

keras said in post 267:

The Lord won't be seen on His Day of retribution and wrath: Romans 1:18 . . .

Note that Romans 1:18 doesn't require that Jesus won't be seen at any of its fulfillments, such as at his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:11-21; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). I.e., with regard to the 2nd coming, Romans 1:18's "heaven", like Revelation 19:11's and 2 Thessalonians 1:7's "heaven", can simply be the 1st heaven, the sky/atmosphere.

keras said in post 267:

Psalms 11:4-6

Psalms 11:6 can refer to Revelation 20:9b, which is the same event as Ezekiel 38:22.

keras said in post 267:

Habakkuk 3:4

This could refer to the brightness of Jesus' 2nd coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8b). In Habakkuk 3:4, the original Hebrew word (chebyown: H2253) translated as "hiding" can indeed refer to a concealment (Strong's Hebrew Dictionary). But it can simply mean that some of Jesus' power at his 2nd coming will be contained within horns protruding from his hand.

keras said in post 267:

Ezekiel 43:2

Note that this can be millennial.

keras said in post 267:

Revelation 7:9

Note that in Revelation 7:9-17, the great multitude could be only that part of the church (Revelation 7:14b) which will enter the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and then come out of it (Revelation 7:14) and enter heaven (Revelation 7:15) by dying (cf. Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8) during the 2nd through 6th seals in the chapter just prior (Revelation 6), the tribulation's 1st stage.
 
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keras

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Your usual litany of " this could refer, or this can be", that you say only because you are fixed on believing there is no gathering in the Land before the Return. That this belief violates what the prophets wrote and God's plans for His people, doesn't bother you. Revelation 7:9 is an example of all the Lord's righteous people, by then in the holy Land, praising Jesus who will be with them in the same way as He was to the ancient Israelites.

The phrase: Then they will know that I am the Lord God, is repeated by Ezekiel 53 times:
Note that nothing about that phrase requires that the Lord will not have returned by that point.
Really?
I note in some other trans; Then they will learn that I am the Ever Living God. Or; Then they will acknowledge I am the Lord.
Psalms 83:17-18 Lord destroy now our enemies, let them be put to shame and perish. So that men may know that You alone are God over all the earth.
Ezekiel 28:24-26 And there shall never again be a pricking briar or a painful thorn for the House of Israel from their neighbours around them, but they will all learn that I am the Mighty Lord.
Thus says the Lord God: When I gather the Israelites from the nations, amongst whom they are now dispersed, and I have been reverenced by them in the sight of the Gentiles, they will live in My holy Land, the Land I promised to My servant, Jacob. They will dwell safely there, build houses and plant vineyards, yes, they will live there with confidence, after I have executed My Judgements upon all those who hate them. Thus, they will know that I am the Lord their God.


Ezekiel 39:21-29 I shall display My glory among the nations and all will see the Judgements I execute and My Hand laid upon them. So, from that Day, My people will know that I am their God.......When they come out of the nations and settle into all of the holy Land, they will serve as an example of My Holiness to many peoples. Then they will acknowledge that I am the Lord, their God, the One who sent them into exile among the nations, but also the One who brought them back to their Land and left none of them behind.
No longer will I hide My Face from them, I who have poured out My Spirit on them
.

Ezekiel 37:13-14 You, My people, will know that I am the Lord, when I bring you up from your [spiritual] graves. Them. I shall put My Spirit into you and you will live [a complete life] and I will place you in your own Land, Thus you will know that I, the Lord God have spoken it and have performed it. This is the Word of the Lord. KJV, NKJV, CJB, NIV, REB.

The key truths above are:
The evil neighbours and all godless peoples will learn there is a Creator God.
After the Day of Judgement, all My people will know He is their God and they will reverence Him.
The Lord's people will go to live in the holy Land and be God's witnesses there.

The story of the first Exodus will be eclipsed by the greater Second Exodus. Isaiah 11:11-16, Isaiah 51:11, Isaiah 52:10-12, Isaiah 66:18-21, 1 Chronicles 6:36-39, Psalms 68:19-27, Isaiah 41:8-10, Isaiah 49:8-23, Jeremiah 23:3, Jeremiah 46:27-28, Ezekiel 11:15-20, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Hosea 11:8-11, Micah 2:12-13
Zechariah 10:6-12 I shall give victory to Judah and Joseph. I will restore them in My compassion...though still dispersed among the nations, from far off lands, they will remember Me...I shall lead them into the holy Land....their strength will be in the Lord, they will march proudly in His Name.
Jeremiah 23:7-8...the time is coming when people will no longer swear: By the life of the Lord who brought Israelites up from Egypt. Instead they will swear: By the life of the Lord who brought the descendants of the Israelites out of all the lands to which He had dispersed them and they will again live in their own Land.
These prophesies all fit the great gathering of the righteous nation that Jesus referred to in Matthew 21:43 and is described in Isaiah 62:1-12 It will happen before Jesus physically Returns, because they must prepare the world for that event.
 
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keras said in post 269:

Revelation 7:9 is an example of all the Lord's righteous people, by then in the holy Land . . .

Actually, it refers only to some of them before the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 7:9-17).

keras said in post 269:

I note in some other trans; Then they will learn that I am the Ever Living God. Or; Then they will acknowledge I am the Lord.

Note that such statements in themselves in no way require that the Lord will not have returned by that point.

keras said in post 269:

Psalms 83:17-18 Lord destroy now our enemies, let them be put to shame and perish. So that men may know that You alone are God over all the earth.

Psalms 83:17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is YHWH, art the most high over all the earth.

This can refer to after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9).

keras said in post 269:

Ezekiel 28:24-26 And there shall never again be a pricking briar or a painful thorn for the House of Israel from their neighbours around them, but they will all learn that I am the Mighty Lord.
Thus says the Lord God: When I gather the Israelites from the nations, amongst whom they are now dispersed, and I have been reverenced by them in the sight of the Gentiles, they will live in My holy Land, the Land I promised to My servant, Jacob. They will dwell safely there, build houses and plant vineyards, yes, they will live there with confidence, after I have executed My Judgements upon all those who hate them. Thus, they will know that I am the Lord their God.

Ezekiel 28:24 And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor any grieving thorn of all that are round about them, that despised them; and they shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
25 Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.
26 And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God.

Ezekiel 28:24, in its context, can refer to the destruction of ancient Zidon (Ezekiel 28:21-23) and the other pagan cities and nations in the region of ancient Judah (as well as ancient Judah itself) by the Babylonians in the 6th century BC. Ezekiel 28:25-26 can then refer to Judah's subsequent return from the Babylonian Captivity.

keras said in post 269:

Ezekiel 39:21-29 I shall display My glory among the nations and all will see the Judgements I execute and My Hand laid upon them. So, from that Day, My people will know that I am their God.......When they come out of the nations and settle into all of the holy Land, they will serve as an example of My Holiness to many peoples. Then they will acknowledge that I am the Lord, their God, the One who sent them into exile among the nations, but also the One who brought them back to their Land and left none of them behind. No longer will I hide My Face from them, I who have poured out My Spirit on them.

Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
23 ¶And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Note that this can refer to after the millennium. For Ezekiel 39:22 won't be fulfilled until after the millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-10). For Ezekiel 39:22 means that near the end of the safe time of the future millennium (Ezekiel 38:11), the mortal Israelites living on the earth will have become complacent and backslidden away from God (Ezekiel 39:26,7). So, after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), as a punishment, God will let them be taken into captivity (Ezekiel 39:23-29) during the Gog/Magog time (Ezekiel 38:11-13). God will then bring judgment against Gog and Magog, and the mortal Israelites will return to being faithful to God (Ezekiel 39:21-29).

keras said in post 269:

Ezekiel 37:13-14 You, My people, will know that I am the Lord, when I bring you up from your [spiritual] graves. Them. I shall put My Spirit into you and you will live [a complete life] and I will place you in your own Land, Thus you will know that I, the Lord God have spoken it and have performed it. This is the Word of the Lord. KJV, NKJV, CJB, NIV, REB.

Ezekiel 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

In the full context of Ezekiel 37, the resurrection described in verse 10 could refer to the political rebirth of Israel after its Babylonian Captivity. For Ezekiel 37:11 is referring to Israel in the time of Ezekiel, when it was in the Babylonian Captivity. The dry bones would then represent the loss of Israel's hope during that time (Ezekiel 37:11).

The "army" in Ezekiel 37:10 may not be literal in the sense of a military force sent out to attack or defend some territory, but could simply be a figurative way of expressing the size of the multitude of people seen by Ezekiel in his vision, like, for example, someone could say "There is a whole army of ants in the kitchen", meaning that there is a huge number of ants.

While Ezekiel 37:11-12 could have been a metaphor for Israel in its Babylonian Captivity, and then its return to the land of Israel after that captivity (Ezra 2:1), at the same time Ezekiel 37:12-24 could also refer to the future, physical resurrection of the church, which will occur at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:22-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For the church is Israel (e.g. Revelation 21:9b,12b).

keras said in post 269:

The story of the first Exodus will be eclipsed by the greater Second Exodus. Isaiah 11:11-16 . . .

Note that Isaiah 11:11-16, along with the preceding verse, Isaiah 11:10, can refer to Jesus' 2nd coming and the subsequent millennium.

In Isaiah 11:10, the original Hebrew word (nec: H5251) translated as "ensign" can mean a "sign". Compare Numbers 26:10, where some men who died a miraculous death became a "sign" (H5251) not to rebel against God. In the case of Isaiah 11:10, the sign is the person of Jesus Christ himself, who is the root of Jesse, and so the root of David (Revelation 22:16, Ruth 4:22b), and who at his return will serve as a physical sign of salvation for the nations (Isaiah 66:18-21, Micah 4:1-4), just he has always been the only way to salvation (John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12), proven by his miraculous rising from the dead (Romans 1:4-6). And Isaiah 11:10 is one of the verses which the apostle Paul quotes in his proof that God had always intended to save Gentiles as well as Jews (Romans 15:12, cf. Romans 9:24, Romans 3:29).

keras said in post 269:

Isaiah 51:11

This refers to the millennium.

keras said in post 269:

Isaiah 52:10-12

This, like Isaiah 52:8-9, won't happen until Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:3-21).

keras said in post 269:

Isaiah 66:18-21

This refers to the millennium.

keras said in post 269:

1 Chronicles 6:36-39

1 Chronicles 6:36 The son of Elkanah, the son of Joel, the son of Azariah, the son of Zephaniah,
37 The son of Tahath, the son of Assir, the son of Ebiasaph, the son of Korah,
38 The son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, the son of Israel.
39 And his brother Asaph, who stood on his right hand, even Asaph the son of Berachiah, the son of Shimea,

Was your reference a typo for 2 Chronicles 6:36-39? If so, note that the fulfillment of the latter would include the return of the Jews from their Babylonian Captivity.

keras said in post 269:

Psalms 68:19-27

Psalms 68:19-21 can refer to any time.

Psalms 68:22-27 can refer to Jesus' 2nd coming and the subsequent millennium.

keras said in post 269:

Isaiah 41:8-10

This, like Isaiah 41:11-20, can refer to the millennium.

keras said in post 269:

Isaiah 49:8-23

This can refer to the millennium.

keras said in post 269:

Jeremiah 23:3

This, like Jeremiah 23:4-8, can refer to the millennium.

keras said in post 269:

Jeremiah 46:27-28

This can refer to the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8). For not even during the preceding millennium (Revelation 20:4-6) will God "make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee" (Jeremiah 46:28). For they will continue to exist during the millennium (e.g. Zechariah 14:16-19, Revelation 20:7-9).

keras said in post 269:

Ezekiel 11:15-20

This, like Ezekiel 11:14, was addressing Ezekiel -- who was in captivity in Babylon at that time with other Israelites (Ezekiel 1:1-3) -- and can be referring to their (at that time) future return from the Babylonian Captivity.

keras said in post 269:

Ezekiel 36:8-12

Ezekiel chapters 36-37 could refer to a restoration of the Jews to their land during the future millennium.

keras said in post 269:

Hosea 11:8-11

Hosea 11:8 ¶How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.
9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into [can be depart from] the city.
10 They shall walk after the LORD: he shall roar like a lion: when he shall roar, then the children shall tremble from the west.
11 They shall tremble as a bird out of Egypt, and as a dove out of the land of Assyria: and I will place them in their houses, saith the LORD.

This can refer to a restoration of the Jews to their land during the future millennium. For Hosea 11:9 refers to the preceding return of Jesus, when he will be physically in the midst of Israel, just as his roar in Hosea 11:10 brings to mind his 2nd-coming shout in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. In Hosea 11:9c, the original Hebrew word (bow: H0935) translated as "enter" can instead be translated as "depart" (cf. 2 Kings 10:12).

keras said in post 269:

Micah 2:12-13

This refers to a restoration of the Jews to their land after the 2nd coming of Jesus, who is the king and LORD in Micah 2:13b.

keras said in post 269:

Zechariah 10:6-12 I shall give victory to Judah and Joseph. I will restore them in My compassion...though still dispersed among the nations, from far off lands, they will remember Me...I shall lead them into the holy Land....their strength will be in the Lord, they will march proudly in His Name.

Consider this passage along with its immediately-preceding-context verse of Zechariah 10:5:

Zechariah 10:5 ¶And they shall be as mighty men, which tread down their enemies in the mire of the streets in the battle: and they shall fight, because the LORD is with them, and the riders on horses shall be confounded.
6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.
7 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD.
8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.
9 And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again.
10 I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and place shall not be found for them.
11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.
12 And I will strengthen them in the LORD; and they shall walk up and down in his name, saith the LORD.

This can refer to Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium. For Zechariah 10:5 says "the LORD is with them". And the fighting of the Jews against their enemies in Zechariah 10:5-7 is the same as the post-2nd-coming (Zechariah 14:3-4) fighting of the Jews against their enemies in Zechariah 14:14.

keras said in post 269:

Jeremiah 23:7-8...the time is coming when people will no longer swear: By the life of the Lord who brought Israelites up from Egypt. Instead they will swear: By the life of the Lord who brought the descendants of the Israelites out of all the lands to which He had dispersed them and they will again live in their own Land.

Jeremiah 23:7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

This can refer to the millennium.

keras said in post 269:

These prophesies all fit the great gathering of the righteous nation that Jesus referred to in Matthew 21:43 . . .

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Matthew 21:43 is addressing unbelieving, non-elect Jews, whom God doesn't consider to be the true Israel (Romans 9:6-24), or true Jews (Romans 2:28-29, Philippians 3:3), or true children of Abraham or of God, but the children of Satan (John 8:39-47, Revelation 3:9, Revelation 2:9b), just as all the non-elect, no matter whether they are Jews or Gentiles, are considered by God to be the children of Satan (Matthew 13:38-42, cf. 1 John 3:8-10).

The nation in Matthew 21:43b is the church (1 Peter 2:9), which includes both believing Jews and believing Gentiles (1 Corinthians 12:13). And this nation will come to include those elect Jews who won't get saved until Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:25-29).

That is, in Romans 11:25, the Gentiles are genetic Gentiles, the people addressed throughout Romans 11:13-31, who aren't genetic Jews like Paul the apostle (Romans 11:1,14). Both individual genetic Jewish believers (natural branches) and individual genetic Gentile believers (engrafted wild branches) are branches in the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24). For when Gentiles become believers they "come in" (Romans 11:25) to be part of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29). The fruit of each individual branch would be the good works of each individual (Colossians 1:10). It is the genetic Jews who are "blind in part", meaning that some (in the sense of not all) of them are spiritually blind while others aren't (Romans 11:7-10). For "blindness in part is happened to Israel" (Romans 11:25) in its genetic sense (Romans 11:1,14), that is, genetic Jews (Acts 22:3). Also, in Romans 11:25-26, "Israel" includes elect genetic Jews who aren't yet believers (Romans 11:28), but who will become believers eventually (Romans 11:26).

When Paul says "until the fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25), he means until a full number of genetic Gentile individuals have become saved, which won't happen until near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:26), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30), just as Luke 21:24 shows that "the times of the Gentiles" won't be "fulfilled (pleroo)" until the completion of the treading down of Jerusalem during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 11:2b, Revelation 13:5-18), during the 2nd half of the tribulation.

Immediately after the tribulation, when the whole world will see the amazing return of Jesus himself (Matthew 24:29-30, Revelation 1:7), all the still-living, unsaved, elect genetic Jews will be ashamed, and will all weep and become saved when they see Jesus and realize that he truly is their salvation (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26-29). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church. For now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

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Also, if the genetic Jews who will become saved at the 2nd coming had been religious Jews, they won't continue to mistakenly try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, because they will then be believers in the truth that on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and shouldn't keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

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Also, the fullness of the Gentiles coming in during the tribulation doesn't mean that no Gentiles will be added to the church during the subsequent millennium, because they will be (Isaiah 66:19-20). For "fullness" doesn't have to mean "no more after that". For example, even after a cup has been filled with wine, more wine can be added to it, so that the "cup runneth over" (Psalms 23:5b). Also, it doesn't matter that the new believers during the millennium will be added to the church/bride (cf. Ephesians 4:4-6, Ephesians 5:30-32) after the marriage occurred at the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7). For as many husbands have discovered, a bride can increase in size sometime after her wedding.

keras said in post 269:

. . . and is described in Isaiah 62:1-12

Isaiah 62:1-5,8-12 refers to the future time of the millennium (Micah 4:1-8, Isaiah 2:1-3).

Regarding Isaiah 62:6-7, note that even today, both Christians and Jews can go up onto the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem and pray to God, until he makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth (Isaiah 62:6-7, Micah 4:1-7).

keras said in post 269:

It will happen before Jesus physically Return . . .

Note that the only gathering to Israel before Jesus' 2nd coming could be the past gathering of the Jews in 1948 AD.

That is, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34; cf. Matthew 21:19,43, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's 1st year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021 or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b; 1 Peter 2:9, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

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The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the literal, fruitless fig tree (Matthew 21:19) foreshadowed his curse on the part of Old Covenant Israel which rejected him (Matthew 21:43), for a fig tree can represent Israel (Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9). And the Israel which was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel which Jesus cursed at his 1st coming, insofar as it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel which was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman army.

But Jesus' kingdom is still called "Israel" (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7), and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living, unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

keras said in post 269:

It will happen before Jesus physically Returns, because they must prepare the world for that event.

Note that the world will in no way be prepared for Jesus' return (e.g. Matthew 24:38-39).
 
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keras

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Note that the world will in no way be prepared for Jesus' return (e.g. Matthew 24:38-39).
I stand corrected on this one. But the Lord's people will be prepared; John 14:18-21, Revelation 12:14

Regarding the question of whether the Lord's righteous people will go to live in all of the holy Land before the Return of Jesus. The answer is in Biblical precedent:
God said He would be with all of these individuals and people. Not physically, but only spiritually.
Abraham - Genesis 26:24
Jacob - Genesis 28:15
Moses - Exodus 33:14
Joshua - Joshua 6:27
Samson - Judges 13:25
Saul - 1 Samuel 10:6-7
Saul loses the Spirit of the Lord - 1 Samuel 16:14
David - 2 Samuel 7:9
Solomon - 1 Kings 3:5-14
The returnees of Judah - Ezra 1:3, Haggai 2:4-5
Isaiah - Isaiah 6:8-9a
Jeremiah - Jeremiah 1:8, Jeremiah 15:20
Paul - Acts 18:9-10
The upright and pure in heart - Psalms 73:1 & 23
All true Christians - Matthew 28:20
So, with the question of whether the Lord is spiritually or physically present, it seems that most of the prophesies detailing the restoration of all the Israelites, be they true descendants or grafted in, is interpreted by some according to a personal belief that Jesus must be present to redeem His people.
But according to how God has dealt with His people before, it must be a spiritual help and support, as we are told what happened to them will again happen to us, in the last days. 1 Corinthians 10:6-11
Jesus will come later to reign, as His reward. His Coming will be the ultimate 'God with us', the last feast of Tabernacles.

There is also the many prophesies saying: You will know I am the Lord. This is always said after He takes some kind of action. It is superfluous and unnecessary to say that, if Jesus had Returned by that time. For examples: Ezekiel 34:27-31, Ezekiel 35:11, Isaiah 43:10-13, Joel 2:27, Joel 3:16-17
 
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keras said in post 271:

But the Lord's people will be prepared; John 14:18-21 . . .

John 14:18,23b means that Jesus would come by his Holy Spirit the Comforter (John 14:16-18), who would come with power upon the disciples at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Luke 24:49, Acts 2:1-4). Similarly, it is by his Holy Spirit that Jesus could say to his disciples: "I am with you always, even unto the end of the world" (Matthew 28:20b, Hebrews 13:5b). And it is by his (and God the Father's) Holy Spirit that Jesus has always made his abode (along with the Father) within obedient believers (John 14:23, Ephesians 3:17-19, Romans 8:9-10). And it is by his Holy Spirit that Jesus has always manifested himself spiritually to obedient believers (John 14:21; 2 Corinthians 3:18).

John 14:19a meant that the unbelieving world wouldn't see Jesus physically from the time of his burial at his 1st coming (John 16:20a) until his (never fulfilled) physical, 2nd coming in Matthew 24:30b, Revelation 1:7, and Revelation 19:11-21, just as John 16:10b meant that believers wouldn't see Jesus physically from the time of his resurrection at his 1st coming (John 14:19b, John 16:16,20b,22) until his (never fulfilled) physical, 2nd coming in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30b-31, John 14:3, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, and 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-58.

keras said in post 271:

Revelation 12:14

The woman in Revelation 12 represents the church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). For she is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). And the moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the crown of 12 stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the 12 apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26), who have been placed over the church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

Her giving birth to the "man child", and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6), represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will occur during the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the church during that time who won't flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities and be persecuted in every nation, and be imprisoned and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, Genesis 37:9-10 isn't (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1, the church/Israel isn't clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2), through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the church/Israel doesn't have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the church/Israel doesn't have Jacob's 12 sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the 12 apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her 12 tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

keras said in post 271:

Regarding the question of whether the Lord's righteous people will go to live in all of the holy Land before the Return of Jesus.

Note that some are already living there, just as some have always lived there, from the start of the church. But note that nothing requires, even by type, that everyone in the church will go to live there before Jesus' 2nd coming.

keras said in post 271:

The answer is in Biblical precedent:
God said He would be with all of these individuals and people. Not physically, but only spiritually.
Abraham - Genesis 26:24
Jacob - Genesis 28:15
Moses - Exodus 33:14
Joshua - Joshua 6:27
Samson - Judges 13:25
Saul - 1 Samuel 10:6-7
Saul loses the Spirit of the Lord - 1 Samuel 16:14
David - 2 Samuel 7:9
Solomon - 1 Kings 3:5-14
The returnees of Judah - Ezra 1:3, Haggai 2:4-5
Isaiah - Isaiah 6:8-9a
Jeremiah - Jeremiah 1:8, Jeremiah 15:20
Paul - Acts 18:9-10
The upright and pure in heart - Psalms 73:1 & 23
All true Christians - Matthew 28:20
So, with the question of whether the Lord is spiritually or physically present, it seems that most of the prophesies detailing the restoration of all the Israelites, be they true descendants or grafted in, is interpreted by some according to a personal belief that Jesus must be present to redeem His people.

Jesus indeed didn't, and still doesn't, have to be physically present to redeem his people. But note that this in no way requires (as is sometimes asserted) that he has to not be physically present in order to return all of them in the future to the promised land.

keras said in post 271:

But according to how God has dealt with His people before, it must be a spiritual help and support, as we are told what happened to them will again happen to us, in the last days. 1 Corinthians 10:6-11

Note that just as the church is under a different covenant than Israel was during the Exodus (2 Corinthians 3:6-18), so the church can be gathered together to the promised land in a different manner, i.e. at Jesus' 2nd coming (Mark 13:26-27). 1 Corinthians 10:6-11 simply means that what happened to Israel during the Exodus is a warning to us not to backslide.

keras said in post 271:

Jesus will come later to reign, as His reward. His Coming will be the ultimate 'God with us', the last feast of Tabernacles.

Regarding the feast of tabernacles, note that all the Old Covenant feasts can have a New Covenant fulfillment.

For Christ's New Covenant death (Matthew 26:28) was the fulfillment of the Old Covenant Passover (Leviticus 23:5; 1 Corinthians 5:7b), and his resurrection was the fulfillment of the firstfruits of Leviticus 23:10 (1 Corinthians 15:20). The general salvation of the church could be a subsequent fulfillment of the firstfruits of Leviticus 23:10 (James 1:18). And the 144,000 part of the church could be a subsequent fulfillment of the firstfruits presented to the Lord (Leviticus 23:10b-11, Revelation 14:4b).

The 50 days, firstfruits, and 2 loaves of Leviticus 23:16-17 could have been fulfilled at the Pentecost in Acts 2 and subsequently, when the firstfruits of the Spirit (Romans 8:23) were poured out on (one loaf) the Jews in the church (Acts 2:14-18) and then on (another loaf) the Gentiles in the church (Acts 10:45b).

The feast of trumpets of Leviticus 23:24 could be fulfilled at the 2nd coming, when the 2nd-coming trumpet will sound (Matthew 24:30-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52) after the 7 trumpets of the tribulation have sounded (Revelation 8:2).

The day of atonement of Leviticus 23:27-28 could be fulfilled when Christ saves all the elect unbelieving Jews alive at the 2nd coming (Romans 11:26-28, Zechariah 12:10-14).

The feast of tabernacles of Leviticus 23:34 could be fulfilled at the marriage feast (Revelation 19:9) which will be on the earth after the 2nd coming (Isaiah 25:6-9). Paul quotes from Isaiah 25:8 in 1 Corinthians 15:54b, showing that the earthly feast of Isaiah 25:6-9 will be connected with the resurrection of the church at the 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:4-6).

keras said in post 271:

There is also the many prophesies saying: You will know I am the Lord. This is always said after He takes some kind of action. It is superfluous and unnecessary to say that, if Jesus had Returned by that time.

Note that nothing requires that it is superfluous and unnecessary to say that, if Jesus has returned by that time.

keras said in post 271:

For examples: Ezekiel 34:27-31 . . .

This can refer to the millennium.

keras said in post 271:

Ezekiel 35:11

This, like its context, Ezekiel 35:1-15, can refer to the same thing as Isaiah 34:1-17, i.e. the great white throne judgment.

keras said in post 271:

Isaiah 43:10-13

Isaiah 43:10b shows that there will be no future Gods, just as there were no past Gods: YHWH has always been, is now, and forever will be the only God (Deuteronomy 4:35, Isaiah 45:5-6, Psalms 90:2b).

keras said in post 271:

Joel 2:27

Joel 2:1-27 can refer poetically to a literal locust invasion which destroyed ancient Israel's crops (Joel 2:25) sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the 1st century AD (Joel 2:28-29, Acts 2:16-18). For the day of the Lord in Joel 2:1-27 can refer to an ancient day of the Lord, like, for example, the ancient day of the Lord in Jeremiah 46:2,10. Both of these ancient days of the Lord can be different than the future day of the Lord (Joel 2:31), which won't start until sometime after (as in only a few years after) the 6th seal (Revelation 6:12, Joel 2:31) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the future day of the Lord (Christ) (2 Thessalonians 2:2) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Joel 2:1 referring only to Zion, the holy mountain, and to the land, can mean that it is referring only to a localized day of the Lord which affected only the ancient Israelites on their land. Joel 2:2 can refer to a huge cloud of literal locusts darkening the skies of Israel. Just as literal ants can be referred to as "a people" (Hebrew: "am": H5971) (Proverbs 30:25), so a huge cloud of devouring locusts can be referred to poetically as "a great people (H5971) and a strong" (Joel 2:2). Joel 2:3b describes the effects of a locust invasion, which can be poetically expressed as being like a devouring fire (Joel 2:3a). Joel 2:4 can describe locusts running along the ground as looking like little horses. Joel 2:5 can poetically describe locusts leaping high, and devouring every plant down even to its stubble. "A strong people set in battle array" (Joel 2:5) brings to mind another poetic description of a locust swarm: "go they forth all of them by bands", i.e. distributed into ranks (Hebrew: "chatsats": H2686) (Proverbs 30:27).

Joel 2:6 can poetically describe the immense grief felt by the ancient Israelites as they witnessed all their crops being devoured by the locust swarm. Joel 2:7 can describe locusts running along the ground and climbing up walls. "They shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks" (Joel 2:7) again brings to mind another poetic description of a literal locust swarm: "go they forth all of them by bands" (Proverbs 30:27). Joel 2:8 can refer to the locusts in the swarm not attacking each other, and to how useless a sword was in fighting against them. Because locusts are small and have an exoskeleton, they can just bounce off a swinging sword as they fly along. Joel 2:9 can refer to locusts running along the ground through a city, climbing up onto the walls of buildings and into windows looking for food anywhere they can.

Joel 2:10 can be poetic hyperbole to express how terrible the locust swarm was to the land of Israel, and how the swarm was so vast that it darkened the skies of Israel completely. The original Hebrew word (erets: H0776) translated as "the earth" (Joel 2:10) can refer to only a local area of land (e.g. Genesis 2:11,13), like how, for example, our word "earthquake" today can refer to only a local event. Joel 2:11 shows that the literal locust swarm wasn't (as is sometimes claimed) from Satan, fallen angels, or evil nephilim, but was considered by God to be his own "army", as it were (Joel 2:25). Joel 2:20 can mean that God's literal locust "army" (Joel 2:25) came from the north into the land of Israel, and that the swarm was eventually sent off by God into the barren desert, where the locusts died of starvation and their millions of dead bodies rotted in the sun and sent up a great stench. Joel 2:25 shows that it was literal locusts and other plant-destroying insects which God considered to be "my great army which I sent among you".

Joel 2:28-29 shows that the locusts devoured ancient Israel's crops sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the 1st century AD. For Joel 2:28-29 began to happen sometime "afterward", sometime after the locust invasion of Joel 2:1-27. And Joel 2:28-29 began to happen at the Acts 2 day of Pentecost (Acts 2:16-18).

keras said in post 271:

Joel 3:16-17

Joel 3 might refer to the Gog/Magog event after the millennium, and then blend into the subsequent new earth and New Jerusalem. For compare Ezekiel 39:22, which won't be fulfilled until after the future millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-10). Ezekiel 39:22 means that near the end of the safe time of the future millennium (Ezekiel 38:11), the mortal Israelites living on the earth will have become complacent and backslidden away from God (Ezekiel 39:26,7). So, after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), as a punishment, God will let them be taken into captivity (Ezekiel 39:23-29) during the Gog/Magog time (Ezekiel 38:11-13). God will then bring judgment against Gog and Magog, and the mortal Israelites will return to being faithful to God (Ezekiel 39:21-29).
 
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Note that some are already living there, just as some have always lived there, from the start of the church. But note that nothing requires, even by type, that everyone in the church will go to live there before Jesus' 2nd coming.
Jesus indeed didn't, and still doesn't, have to be physically present to redeem his people.
So you see it is possible for the Lord's people to be in the holy Land before the Return.
Consider Daniel 7:23-25, paralleled by Revelation 13:7, where God's people are defeated by the armies of the Anti-Christ. Where does this happen? We are told in Revelation 11:1-8...in the Holy City, where the Lord was crucified. And in the context of Daniel, Jerusalem, or the holy Land is mentioned or implied many times.
Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:29-35, also describe this 3 1/2 year period of traumatic testing for the people of the Lord, WHO ARE IN THE HOLY LAND AT THAT TIME.
Revelation 12:1-17 is very informative and gives more details of this 3 1/2, 42 month or 1260 day period: that chapter tells us that Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him. He pursues the 'woman', that we know must refer to all righteous Christian Israel. Israelites as per Galatians 3:26-29. They are then living in peace and prosperity in the holy Land, as many prophesies describe. The new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5
The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27, are those who remain in the Land, Revelation 12:17, Zechariah 14:2b. But those who refuse to accede to that treaty, will leave the holy Land and will be taken to a place of safety, where they will be looked after for 1260 days, in a place prepared by God. Revelation 12:6
These are Biblical truths, proving the many prophesies about the great Second Exodus of all the Lords people, from every tribe, nation, race and language, Revelation 5:9-10, that will happen before the Return of Jesus. Isaiah 32:15-18, Psalms 20:1-6 Then, He will destroy those conquerors of the holy Land, along with the rest of those gathered by Satan, Revelation 16:14, and bring all His people back to Jerusalem, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

That this teaching is not known to you and most other Christians, is how God wanted it to be. Matthew 11:25
But now as we are so close to the time of fulfillment, God is 'opening the eyes and unstopping the ears' of a few who are willing to put aside false teachings and really understand His Plans for our future. Jeremiah 30:24
 
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keras said in post 273:

So you see it is possible for the Lord's people to be in the holy Land before the Return.
Consider Daniel 7:23-25, paralleled by Revelation 13:7, where God's people are defeated by the armies of the Anti-Christ. Where does this happen?

The future persecution of the church will happen in all nations (Matthew 24:9-14, Revelation 13:7, Daniel 7:23).

Regarding Daniel 7:23-25 and its reference to "The fourth beast", in Daniel 7 the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). And the 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. The 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

keras said in post 273:

We are told in Revelation 11:1-8...in the Holy City, where the Lord was crucified.

Note that Revelation 11:8 can simply refer to where the 2 witnesses will be killed.

Also, in the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12, the 2 witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the 2 men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4, the 2 "olive trees" refer back to the 2 men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues which the 2 witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael the archangel retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like how, for example, Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could be alive at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The 2 witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the 2 witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason there will be 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because 2 witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the 2 "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

keras said in post 273:

And in the context of Daniel, Jerusalem, or the holy Land is mentioned or implied many times.

Yet nothing requires that the entire church will be there before Jesus returns, to gather them there (Mark 13:26-27).

keras said in post 273:

Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:29-35, also describe this 3 1/2 year period of traumatic testing for the people of the Lord, WHO ARE IN THE HOLY LAND AT THAT TIME.

Some will be, but not all.

Also, Daniel 11:30c,32a can refer antitypically to Orthodox Jews in Israel who will apostatize and follow the Antichrist to keep from being killed by him.

Daniel 11:33-35 refers to the persecution of people in the church (not in hiding) throughout the world during the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), immediately after which tribulation, Jesus will return and gather together (rapture) the church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the 1st (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the 1st part of it antitypically, and the rest for the 1st and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

keras said in post 273:

Revelation 12:1-17 is very informative and gives more details of this 3 1/2, 42 month or 1260 day period: that chapter tells us that Satan will be thrown out of the spiritual realm and will come to earth, his angels with him.

That's right. Revelation 12:7-9 hasn't happened yet, but is part of the things which must be hereafter (Revelation 4:1b).

Just as what John saw in Revelation 4:2-11 are literal things in heaven, so what he saw in Revelation 12:7-9 is a literal, future, mid-tribulation war in heaven, between Michael and his angels on the one hand, and Satan and his angels on the other, resulting in Satan and his angels being defeated and cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:8-9,12-13).

Revelation 12:7-9 shows that Michael and his angels are more powerful than Satan and his angels. But this doesn't mean that Satan won't be able to deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into thinking that he and his angels (with the help of a united mankind) will be able to defeat YHWH and his army (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19).

For before Revelation 12:7-9 happens, an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19). If they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as aliens. But they and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they are YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The 4 fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind utterly desperate before its complete takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when this army starts killing 1/3 of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought on humanity. For the Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels, and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

It is at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. After landing there, Lucifer, a literal 7-headed, red dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he has come to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the unsaved world as the saviors of mankind. And the unsaved world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH God's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist and a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send 7 vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of these 7 vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the world's armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).

When Jesus returns, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 19:7-21, Matthew 24:29-31), he will descend physically from heaven on a white horse (Revelation 19:7-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all the holy angels (Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:27,30, Revelation 1:7). Then the church will be physically resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortality (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:4-6) and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and marry its obedient part (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12) in the clouds, before it mounts white horses and comes back down from sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the world's armies (Revelation 19:19,21), and the Antichrist and False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and has Lucifer (Satan) bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54), while the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's defeated armies (Revelation 19:17-18). Then Jesus and the obedient part of the church will rule the surviving nations with a rod of iron for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2). After the 1,000 years, Lucifer will be released from the bottomless pit and bring about the Gog/Magog rebellion, only to be defeated for the last time (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

At least 7 years after that defeat (Ezekiel 39:9b), the great white throne judgment will occur, in which all those who hadn't been resurrected and judged at Jesus' return will be resurrected and judged (Revelation 20:11-15). Then God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1; 2 Peter 3:10b,13). Then God the Father will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:3), and he will dwell on the earth with Jesus and the church (Revelation 21:3).

In one area outside the walls of New Jerusalem on the new earth will be the lake of fire (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8), in which all of unsaved humanity will suffer forever in fire and brimstone with Lucifer and his fallen angels (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

keras said in post 273:

Isaiah 62:1-5

This refers to the millennium.

keras said in post 273:

Daniel 9:27

Regarding this verse, note that back in the preceding verse the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). But a future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are militarily defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So this future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false "Messiah" and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

keras said in post 273:

The 'many' who had agreed to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, the leader of the One World Government, Daniel 9:27, are those who remain in the Land, Revelation 12:17, Zechariah 14:2b.

Note that Revelation 12:17 can refer to Christians around the world, while Zechariah 14:2b can refer to Jews in Jerusalem.

keras said in post 273:

Revelation 12:6

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different, protected wilderness places around the world.

keras said in post 273:

Revelation 5:9-10

Revelation 5:10a refers to those who are in the church (1 Peter 2:9, Revelation 1:6). And Revelation 5:10b refers to the future reign of the physically resurrected church on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29), which will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

keras said in post 273:

Isaiah 32:15-18

This may refer to what will happen to surviving, unsaved elect Jews at Jesus' 2nd coming (cf. Zechariah 12:10-14) and then during the subsequent millennium (Micah 4:3-4).

keras said in post 273:

Psalms 20:1-6

This can refer to any time.

keras said in post 273:

Then, He will destroy those conquerors of the holy Land, along with the rest of those gathered by Satan, Revelation 16:14, and bring all His people back to Jerusalem, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

That's right (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).
 
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keras

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This refers to the millennium.
It is impossible for Isaiah 62:1-5 to be Millennial.
That prophecy says it is the Lord's people who will show righteousness and display His holy glory, for all to see. It is them who will be as jewels in the Lord's crown, joined as in wedlock to the holy Land.
Zechariah 9:16 On that Day, [the Lord's Day of wrath] God will save His people, for they are precious stones in His crown, to sparkle all around His holy Land.
Isaiah 61:2b...a Day of vengeance of our God. THEN: Isaiah 61:3...to comfort those who mourn, [those who look for the Return of Jesus.] they will be comforted and called 'trees of righteousness', planted by the Lord, so that He may be glorified.
Isaiah 61:11 As plants burst into bud and flowers blossom, so will the Lord God make His victory and renown known before all the nations.
This is the proof of how the Lord will use His people to be 'a light to the nations and His witnesses', to glorify His Name, before the Return of Jesus.
Isaiah 61:9b... all who see them will acknowledge that they are a people blessed by the Lord.
 
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Riberra

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I notice you write out passages in KJV speak, but not this one.
Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days.....KJV
So your opinion is: that will be a good thing? The Hebrew word 'aur' does mean light, but heat accompanies the sun's light.
Ambient temperature = 20c X 7 = 140c Oven cooking heat, exactly as Malachi 4:1 says it will be.
Isaiah 47:14 But they are like stubble, the fire burns them up they cannot escape the flames. It isn't a glowing coal to warm them, not a fire to sit by! Revised English Bible
That this describes an explosion of the sun, a Coronal Mass Ejection of an unprecedented magnitude is confirmed by the many other prophesies, including Revelation 6:12-17, that describe an event that can only be literally fulfilled by a CME.
Keras,you should know by now that a CME is not even hot when it hit the Earth whatever the size of the CME .Also you should know that a CME does not make the Sun becoming hotter .

A coronal mass ejection (CME) is an unusually-large release of plasma from the solar corona.

Plasma

an ionized gas consisting of positive ions and free electrons in proportions .


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection
Check this video :
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/A_Coronal_Mass_Ejection_strikes_the_Earth.ogv

350px--A_Coronal_Mass_Ejection_strikes_the_Earth.ogv.jpg


This video shows the particle flow around Earth as solar ejecta associated with a coronal mass ejection strike.
 
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Keras,you should know by now that a CME is not even hot when it hit the Earth whatever the size of the CME .Also you should know that a CME does not make the Sun becoming hotter .
A coronal mass ejection (CME) is an unusually-large release of plasma from the solar corona.
What Wikipedia and most other information on Coronal Mass Ejections tell us, is the historical effects of a sun explosion. Until now, these small CME's have never seriously affected the earth. The earths magnetosphere protects us, but in 1859 and again recently in Quebec, CME's did cause damage.
Secular scientists warn of serious effects if we were to be struck directly by a big CME. Richard Fisher of NASA said: It isn't a matter of if, but when the earth will be hit and badly affected by a big CME.
Check out: ecology.com/ earths greatest threat- the sun and it's cme's

But we who have the benefit of the Prophetic Word, can know the means whereby the Lord will send fire, Amos 1, how that Day will burn like a furnace, Malachi 4:1, how all the cosmic and earthly effects will be produced, Revelation 6:12-14, by a CME, the like has never been seen and will not again. Joel 2:2b
 
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Riberra

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What Wikipedia and most other information on Coronal Mass Ejections tell us, is the historical effects of a sun explosion. Until now, these small CME's have never seriously affected the earth. The earths magnetosphere protects us, but in 1859 and again recently in Quebec, CME's did cause damage.
Secular scientists warn of serious effects if we were to be struck directly by a big CME. Richard Fisher of NASA said: It isn't a matter of if, but when the earth will be hit and badly affected by a big CME.
Check out: ecology.com/ earths greatest threat- the sun and it's cme's
I was there in the province of Quebec during the black out caused by the CME....

But we who have the benefit of the Prophetic Word, can know the means whereby the Lord will send fire, Amos 1, how that Day will burn like a furnace, Malachi 4:1, how all the cosmic and earthly effects will be produced, Revelation 6:12-14, by a CME, the like has never been seen and will not again. Joel 2:2b
A CME is not a fire.... a CME is not hot .
 
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A CME is not a fire.... a CME is not hot .
An opinion without proof is worthless.
The sun is super hot, any mass ejected from it will be a very high temperature. Remember the sun is a million times bigger that the earth, so just a millionth of the suns matter would be earth size and even a fraction of that exploded out and directed at earth, will cause havoc, just as all the prophets foretell.
The idea of such a terrible event happening isn't nice and denial is a common reaction. The antediluvian peoples also denied the idea of a flood! It happened and they drowned. Now what?
 
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An opinion without proof is worthless.
The sun is super hot, any mass ejected from it will be a very high temperature.
I have provided the proof in post 276.

When the mass of plasma quit the sun only the charged particles arrive on the Earth...

The video below is the proof...
The proof that when it arrive in the vinicity of the Earth only the charged particles of the CME affect the earth....no heat.
Video:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/A_Coronal_Mass_Ejection_strikes_the_Earth.ogv

Plasma :
an ionized gas consisting of positive ions and free electrons in proportions .

The idea of such a terrible event happening isn't nice and denial is a common reaction. The antediluvian peoples also denied the idea of a flood! It happened and they drowned. Now what?
CME's does not cause earthquakes.... if that may reassure you ,the great earthquake of the 6th seal will not be caused by a CME.

Can you provide a scientific proof that a CME can cause an erthquake ?An opinion without proof is worthless.
 
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