Is Tithing for the Christian today?

Kenny'sID

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Furthermore, the OP believes that the concept of a paid, full-time minister is at least unbiblical,

FWIW,

I wouldn't say it was necessarily Biblical, yet it may be, seems priests needs were met in the OT but I just haven't looked into it enough to comment much more. Either way I personally see no problem supporting a preacher and their family, as long as they are pulling their weight, but I won't pay them to live high on the hog either.

I think one of the big problems and what may bother many is preachers that live way beyond the level of their congregation and preachers that teach 10% or you are not doing your part.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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I have read through the first page of comments.

Let me say from the outset, I am not a paid minister of the gospel and I am not serving a single congregation. When I minister I minister in love and service to Jesus Christ so those who wish to bag me better find another reason than accepting wages for preaching the gospel.

Practicality means the church needs financial support because there are incidental costs. If you don't want to support these, don't go to church. If you meet in a home church, don't brag because you haven't got it Scripturally right.

Paul the apostle was an amazing man with skills and abilities he could use to support himself. He also found very supportive business partners who would carry the burden when he needed to give his time to the gospel. Did Paul ever receive from the church? Yes, but it was not his custom as he says himself that he followed Jesus principle of giving rather than receiving, especially at Ephesus. Yet Paul, who did not demand payment defended the right of Christ's servants to receive, both to the Corinthians and instructing Timothy; and to Timothy he doesn't just say "to cover their needs", he says "a double portion". In other words, think what you would like for your needs... then double it.

It is a shame that most of the replies I have read set a character of stinginess that has no regard for anything other than themselves.

Tithing, though not mandatory becomes a good principle for the success of the gospel. Giving to charity is good but today giving to charity does not always lead people to Christ. In most countries these days they disallow charity for the purpose of preaching Christ. Just look for yourself.

Tell me, how many people do you witness to in a week? If you won't speak, who will? The minister of Christ is worthy of their reward, are you holding on to it?

In reply to the one who said tithing was not giving to God... read Malachi where it says concerning the tithing, "Will a man rob God?" Sounds like tithing was giving to God to me.


I think it is wonderful you preach for free and are motivated out of the Love of Jesus. This is awesome.

But I will say, to say the home church is not biblical is not correct. Matter of fact there is no mention of any building structure as we see today anywhere in the NT.

Yet.

Day of Pentecost they were in the upper room - of a house.
Peter went to Cornelius at his house
Acts 2, they went from house to house
Jesus called Zacheus out from the tree and said, let us go to your house.
Paul preached and a boy fell out of a window, from a house
Paul met with Priscilla at her house.

There are a ton more examples that make the case for a home church. Where are the bible references that we should have a building like we see today? If you are going to make these statements at least give us some bible.

God Bless
 
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Breeze7

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Tithing is 10 percent. It belongs to God. Everything we have is from God and all He asks from us is to give back 10% of all our income and take it to our local church, God's house. We get to keep the other 90% and give offerings as we desire.

When we take care of God's house, He takes care of ours.

When you tithe the Bible says the windows of heaven will be opened above you and pour out a blessing you don't have room enough to contain. It is also the only thing (that I am aware of) in the Bible that causes God to rebuke the devourer in our lives.

Tithing is part of the law and even in the NT it is clear we are to continue tithing. Jesus told the Pharisees they should continue to do it in Matt 23:23.

However tithing is really a matter of the heart. And the first people to tithe did so before there was a law. Look at Abraham and Jacob making vows back in Genesis.

Where your treasure is that's where your heart will be. - Matt 6:21

Your heart follows your treasure. Where is your heart? You can choose to have it be in the things of God.

So if our love and honor for God doesn't move us to give to God even if it wasn't a law, (like Abraham did), we can still get our heart in the right place by obeying God's Word and tithing.

It seems people are so fearful when it comes to money. If they only knew how much they are missing out on by not obeying God in this area, they would turn that fear in to faith in an instant. God doesn't ask us to do something we are not capable of doing...

Anyway that's my 2 cents and I believe tithing is for every single Christian.

Be blessed to be a blessing -
Brenda
 
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Hank77

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Tithing is part of the law and even in the NT it is clear we are to continue tithing. Jesus told the Pharisees they should continue to do it in Matt 23:23.
The Pharisees didn't have a choice they were obligated to follow the Law of Moses, the old covenant that God made with the nation of Israel.
Look at Abraham and Jacob making vows back in Genesis.
Who did Abraham give to? What was it he gave? Is there any record of him tithing to God or to anyone at any other time?
What did Jacob say to God about the 10th? Where in scripture did Jacob actually give a tithe? If so, what did he tithe?
 
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2Timothy2:15

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The Pharisees didn't have a choice they were obligated to follow the Law of Moses, the old covenant that God made with the nation of Israel.

Who did Abraham give to? What was it he gave? Is there any record of him tithing to God or to anyone at any other time?
What did Jacob say to God about the 10th? Where in scripture did Jacob actually give a tithe? If so, what did he tithe?


That is right Hank. Abraham gave the spoils of war, he did it once, then not again.
 
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Michael Scaman

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Still, the New Testament does refers to Abraham as 'tithing' to Mechizadek before there was a law of Moses so you can make a case that somehow the practice of tithing continues. I do not believe in being heavy handed about it, but a Christian should be 'generous' which may take a different form in different people and circumstance today.

There also are a few laws refered to by Paul who did not appear to believe in 'righteousness by law'. The first commandment with a promise, not bein unequally yoked being two examples..
 
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Hank77

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This whole book is written to the Jews so we know it needs to be interpreted with them in mind.
How could Jesus be the Jewish Messiah....
Argument - Jesus was not of the tribe of Levi. - Melchizedek was king and priest of God but he was a Canaanite, neither of the loins of Abraham or Aaron and yet Abraham honored him with a tithe.
The argument continues on as an answer to the Jews objections.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Money....the root of all evil.

And of course that's not to say money in itself is bad, but is it any wonder there is confusion in this area?

Fact... there are preachers out there that will push tithing (the 10% rule) as a command from God when as far as I can tell it is not. If it were a command, it would be clear and completely obvious like the other commandments, and it is far from that. It can only be falsely proven out with much talk and twisting here and there...something most of us can see through if we want to bother to pay attention. If we want to be sheep of mans flock and not part of Jesus' flock, believe all anyone tells you without question....our choice.

The Tithe has been drilled into the heads of most of us since birth so naturally some are going to believe it's a fact, but again there is far from good evidence to support it. To them, I'd suggest using a little common sense, realizing money IS involved here and what man tends to do, and always have done with matters involving money....they just want more, so at best they see what they want to see when it comes to what the Bible says on the subject. At worst, those preachers don't bother seriously looking into it because they are afraid of what they will find and what it may cost them, and at the very worst, some preachers know Tithing (still talking the 10% rule here) isn't biblical but they not only twist and turn things to make it look Biblical to their trusting audience, but furthermore, they try to convince you to give even more to their cause, that cause being themselves.

Just ask yourself where you really got the idea Tithing was Biblical from, men or the Bible? And before I get slammed, all that doesn't include all preachers by any means. However, if they preach Tithing as a rule/command from God, I'd be very leery of them. I'm sure enough it's not Biblical that I'd dare say those are preaching lies, and no matter how good they may be or seem to be, there is no excuse and that should not happen...especially in situations involving preachers/teachers of Gods word.

If we are told anything long enough and often enough it can become fact, whether it is or not. So especially in an area where some man has something to gain, always prove out what they are telling us and never assume because religion/Christianity is involved that people are telling the truth....we all know some of the things that go on in the name of Christianity.

And since some, even though I was clear, will take that to mean we shouldn't as Christians give to others and support our Church, we should...or better said, not so much the Church/Church building, support that if that's where you fellowship, and if not support wherever you fellowship, whether it be your home or under a tent. It's a necessity to support the teaching of Gods word, and I mean the truth so, if we know of someone special that is good at that, whether we attend their services or not, might even want to consider helping them do what they do so well. But be very sure you are supporting teachers/preachers that teach the untwisted hard truth, and we shouldn't just think to ourselves because I have a lot of good friends here or whatever, I'll let insincerity of the leaders slide. I wouldn't support anything that doesn't jibe with Gods truth in the Bible, if we do so, we are working against God.

I do feel it's a command/rule that we give to the poor, whether we do that through the church, online, directly, or if we don't have the money or would even rather keep our money, that's fine, we can volunteer our services to help the poor, same thing. If there are times we cannot help with services/money, don't worry about it...use common sense, you know when a situation arises where you need what you have for self or family. As long as we help when we can, or even go a little further if we choose....we are good to go in that we are doing as Jesus expects us to do, as well as building a better future for ourselves in Heaven....mighty good investment. :) I should add right here, I feel God blesses giving so we may find, unless we choose an extravagant, all about us/self lifestyle, if we give of ourselves/money, we might just find we are never in need and always able to give. (And that doesn't mean we can't do some things just for ourselves...moderation). But please don't confuse that with giving to some preacher, especially TV preachers but even some local preachers that tell you how much you will the blessed if you pledge/send money to them. They can get to you, believe me, I've been there, and I know. Don't let them con you out of your money, the money meant for Gods work, money that will only go to support horrible so-called ministries efforts if you let it.

It's really as simple as a good heart/love and using God given Holy Spirit/common sense. Trust others, but never assume all can be trusted. Read the Bible for yourself for the few simple things required of us and don't depend solely on others for your knowledge of Gods word. Always question teachers/preachers or something that doesn't sound right, no matter who says it. And always "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I know that verse may sound like over simplification, but it really works and really does make things simple, at least for the most part.
 
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episkopos

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I am a pastor. I am in my 50s. Been by the grace of God been tithing from my teenage years. The Psalmist admonishes us to taste and see that thatshe Lord is good! In Malachi 3, God promised us blessings when we tithe and curses if we don't. Some Christians try to exclude the Old Testament to their own detriment. Learning from the experience of the Jews, you will be able to see how blessed they are as they obey the covenants including that of tithing. Their example and blessings should stir us to follow them. I believe any one interested will benefit from a book "Why non tithing CHRISTIANS become poor and how tithing CHRISTIANS become rich".
It's a real and true blessing one cannot miss out on.
God is faithful!
 
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Hank77

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In Malachi 3, God promised us blessings when we tithe and curses if we don't.
Blessings of rain for crops and grazing for animals. Sheesh....NOBODY tithed in the OT except in agricultural products. Tent makers, carpenters, stone mason, weavers, pottery makers, fishermen, etc., etc, did Not tithe. Peter did not tithe. Jesus did not tithe. But they did give to the poor and needy, alms.
Learning from the experience of the Jews, you will be able to see how blessed they are as they obey the covenants including that of tithing. Their example and blessings should stir us to follow them.
Jews of today do Not tithe. They support their synagogues with membership type dues and then their son's religious educations and then giving to whichever charities that they choose. They are givers, yes.

It's purely stereotyping to think that Jews are materially blessed. There are many, many Jews in poverty around the world.
There are many Jews living in Israel in poverty.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I am a pastor. I am in my 50s. Been by the grace of God been tithing from my teenage years. The Psalmist admonishes us to taste and see that thatshe Lord is good! In Malachi 3, God promised us blessings when we tithe and curses if we don't. Some Christians try to exclude the Old Testament to their own detriment. Learning from the experience of the Jews, you will be able to see how blessed they are as they obey the covenants including that of tithing. Their example and blessings should stir us to follow them. I believe any one interested will benefit from a book "Why non tithing CHRISTIANS become poor and how tithing CHRISTIANS become rich".
It's a real and true blessing one cannot miss out on.
God is faithful!

So you seem to think that all God expects from you is 10% of your income (net or gross?) and then He is obligated to return that 10% with hefty interest. My own brother is locked into that mentality and I must honestly say that he has quite a miserable life, being married to an equally legalistic woman who is also a major shrew. When I fail to see that God is not Lord of everything I own, that I earn, than I am, and that I do, then I am in serious spiritual blindness.
 
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Kenny'sID

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So you seem to think that all God expects from you is 10% of your income (net or gross?) and then He is obligated to return that 10% with hefty interest. My own brother is locked into that mentality and I must honestly say that he has quite a miserable life, being married to an equally legalistic woman who is also a major shrew. When I fail to see that God is not Lord of everything I own, that I earn, than I am, and that I do, then I am in serious spiritual blindness.

With that in mind, will you give god everything you own, or say, sell all you have, give the money to the poor and follow him? Or will you just give what he expects of us to further his cause of taking care of those who do Gods work, and help the poor as you see fit?

I'm not condoning the 10% as a rule, but I saw no evidence the pastor indicated God wasn't lord of what he owned, if that is even a fact. It may sound all spiritual like to say that but fact is God only asks for so much from us and the rest is ours to do as we see fit so, that doesn't sound like God is Lord over all we have at all. If he chooses to be fine, but he has not.
 
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bbbbbbb

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With that in mind, will you give god everything you own, or say, sell all you have, give the money to the poor and follow him? Or will you just give what he expects of us to further his cause of taking care of those who do Gods work, and help the poor as you see fit?

I'm not condoning the 10% as a rule, but I saw no evidence the pastor indicated God wasn't lord of what he owned, if that is even a fact. It may sound all spiritual like to say that but fact is God only asks for so much from us and the rest is ours to do as we see fit so, that doesn't sound like God is Lord over all we have at all. If he chooses to be fine, but he has not.

Here is what he posted -

I am a pastor. I am in my 50s. Been by the grace of God been tithing from my teenage years. The Psalmist admonishes us to taste and see that thatshe Lord is good! In Malachi 3, God promised us blessings when we tithe and curses if we don't. Some Christians try to exclude the Old Testament to their own detriment. Learning from the experience of the Jews, you will be able to see how blessed they are as they obey the covenants including that of tithing. Their example and blessings should stir us to follow them. I believe any one interested will benefit from a book "Why non tithing CHRISTIANS become poor and how tithing CHRISTIANS become rich".


As I read it, he is clearly advocating an exact 10% tithe to God with the primary goal to become rich as a result. He states that non-tihing Christian become poor and are cursed by God. I do not see the slightest indication of any love for God or God's people, but I do see a clear, legalistic understanding of God as the source of wealth if you follow God's law of tithing.

One of the difficulties in the legalistic mindset is the concept that if you pay God what you owe Him He is obligated to bless you. God's grace is earned through obedience, in this mindset, and is not a gift.

However, how does one "pay God"? Is it like the old joke about a Jew and a Christian who were discussing the matter and one told the other that he tosses his money up in the air to God and whatever falls back is his and whatever doesn't is God's? Obviously not. Should we give the tithe, as God commands, to the Levitical priests? I don't know any Christians who advocate that idea. Instead, the usual doctrine is that it should be given to our local Christian priest/pastor who is standing in for God. That then raises the peculiar issue regarding pastors paying their tithes. As he noted in his post, the pastor regularly pays tithes. To whom does he pay them as God is not sitting at a booth to collect the tithe from him? It could be that he puts his tithe into his own church's offering, thus actually sending his tithe back to himself, at least in part. It is very doubtful that he will give his tithe to another church or pastor.

Continuing with the thought that God enriches those who tithe and curses those who don't, I wonder if he believes that Bill Gates, Warren Buffett (both the richest men in the world at different times) or even Donald Trump (a mere multi-billionaire) have reached their extremes of poverty because they do not pay God a tithe of their income. Or, on the other side of the coin, why is it that the Lord Jesus Christ and His Apostles were dirt poor if, in fact, they were meticulously tithing.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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I am a pastor. I am in my 50s. Been by the grace of God been tithing from my teenage years. The Psalmist admonishes us to taste and see that thatshe Lord is good! In Malachi 3, God promised us blessings when we tithe and curses if we don't. Some Christians try to exclude the Old Testament to their own detriment. Learning from the experience of the Jews, you will be able to see how blessed they are as they obey the covenants including that of tithing. Their example and blessings should stir us to follow them. I believe any one interested will benefit from a book "Why non tithing CHRISTIANS become poor and how tithing CHRISTIANS become rich".
It's a real and true blessing one cannot miss out on.
God is faithful!


Malachi was talking to the priest who were misusing and abusing the tithe for their own gain. This is clear as you read the context of Malachi. The storehouse was a literal storehouse full of grain, it was not a bank account. The windows of heaven has always been rain, to water crops to produce food. Windows of heaven is not a window that opens money to pour on you. The problem is not that Christians try to exclude the Old Testament, the problem is teachers/pastors who are not teaching it correctly to the people.

Further you insinuate that if someone does not pay a tithe they will be cursed. Well my bible says Jesus became the curse once and for all.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So how can any Christian be cursed for not paying a tithe to a pastor to which was never commanded ever? This is putting people in legalistic bondage just to generate a constant revenue stream. Pretty foul.

Why is it the pastor out of all the offices mentioned that is the only one who seems to get a full time salary?

Ephesians 4:11
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

We do not see full time paid prophets (real ones), evangelists, teachers and apostles as a rule. Yet out of all listed it is the pastor who justifies a full time paid salary. Also, it may be important to note the order mentioned, pastor is almost last...is that by chance? I am not sure, but one thing it seems God always has a purpose for putting things in scripture the way he does. Yet it seems the pastors have elevated themselves higher than they should? Food for though.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Malachi was talking to the priest who were misusing and abusing the tithe for their own gain. This is clear as you read the context of Malachi. The storehouse was a literal storehouse full of grain, it was not a bank account. The windows of heaven has always been rain, to water crops to produce food. Windows of heaven is not a window that opens money to pour on you. The problem is not that Christians try to exclude the Old Testament, the problem is teachers/pastors who are not teaching it correctly to the people.

Further you insinuate that if someone does not pay a tithe they will be cursed. Well my bible says Jesus became the curse once and for all.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So how can any Christian be cursed for not paying a tithe to a pastor to which was never commanded ever? This is putting people in legalistic bondage just to generate a constant revenue stream. Pretty foul.

Why is it the pastor out of all the offices mentioned that is the only one who seems to get a full time salary?

Ephesians 4:11
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

We do not see full time paid prophets (real ones), evangelists, teachers and apostles as a rule. Yet out of all listed it is the pastor who justifies a full time paid salary. Also, it may be important to note the order mentioned, pastor is almost last...is that by chance? I am not sure, but one thing it seems God always has a purpose for putting things in scripture the way he does. Yet it seems the pastors have elevated themselves higher than they should? Food for thought.

Thanks for the excellent post. I do not see anywhere in my Bible that a pastor is entitled to any salary. A pastor is no more an employee of a church than is a teacher, evangelist, apostle, or prophet.
 
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sunlover1

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Money....the root of all evil.
oops! Not what the Bible says at all.
Money isn't good or evil, it's just money.
Very useful in fact.
And how ya going to obey God and feed the hungry
without money? How will we always be generous as
it speaks of in 2 Cor 10 if we're broke?



I do feel it's a command/rule that we give to the poor,
Rule?? whatchutalkinboutwillis?
Actually, even better yet!
Preach the good news to the poor!
(And give him some food to eat while he listens!)

"The Spirit of the LORD is upon me, for he
has anointed me to bring Good News to the poor.

Wonder what "Good news" is to a poor man!

... Don't let them con you out of your money, the money meant for Gods work, money that will only go to support horrible so-called ministries efforts if you let it.
Like Paul did?
3But I am sending the brothers in order that our boasting about you in this matter should not prove hollow, but that you may be ready, as I said you would be. 4For if any Macedonians come with me and find you unprepared, we—not to say anything about you—would be ashamed of having been so confident. 5So I thought it necessary to urge the brothers to visit you in advance and finish the arrangements for the generous gift you had promised. Then it will be ready as a generous gift, not as one grudgingly given.

It's really as simple as a good heart/love and using God given Holy Spirit/common sense.
What's the worse that can happen if you give to the Kingdom of God?
Shrug*
Not sure why but when I give, He does open the windows of Heaven and pours out such blessing that i can't
even contain it .. in fact, tears come to my eyes right now just thinking about it. Not only that, but if you read
and MEDITATE on that 2 Cor 9 .. in context... it's going to blow your mind.
SO many good things come out of your small offering.. just look at all of the superlatives you'll find in that chapt.

Trust others, but never assume all can be trusted. Read the Bible for yourself for the few simple things required of us and don't depend solely on others for your knowledge of Gods word. Always question teachers/preachers or something that doesn't sound right, no matter who says it. And always "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I know that verse may sound like over simplification, but it really works and really does make things simple, at least for the most part.
:clap::amen::clap::amen:
 
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sunlover1

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Thanks for the excellent post. I do not see anywhere in my Bible that a pastor is entitled to any salary. A pastor is no more an employee of a church than is a teacher, evangelist, apostle, or prophet.
How can a pastor feed his family if we don't give them money?
 
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