My Mesopotamian Challenge

eclipsenow · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Like landlocked Kansas ... in the center of the United States?

How did fish end up in Kansas?

Because the universe is 14 billion years old, the world is about 4 billion years old, life is about a billion years old, and fish are hundreds of millions of years old. Because continental plates move and ocean floors rise up to become land.

lesliedellow · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Hi, there.

So I got to thinking.

Scientists like to say the Flood was just a local one because there ain't any fossils found all over the earth.

It's usually evangelical Christians I hear say that - the ones who can't quite bring themselves to believe that Noah made a quick trip down to Australia to collect some Kangaroos..

KTatis · Apr 17, 2016

Colter said:
If the flood story of Genesis was true there would be no cultures other than the Jews to remember a global flood.

Nah that the Christian view, they distort things a little too much. But truth is there were other cultures around the world who also survived the flood.

AV1611VET · Apr 17, 2016

KTatis said:
Nah that the Christian view, they distort things a little too much.

They???

Does that include you as well?

eclipsenow · Apr 17, 2016

KTatis said:
Nah that the Christian view, they distort things a little too much. But truth is there were other cultures around the world who also survived the flood.

The truth is most early settlements were beside rivers so, um, people could fish and DRINK, and so most early cultures also have various flood narratives! Because, um, rivers flood? Also fascinating is the end of the last ice age. As the ice melted the sea rose and gradually the Australian Aboriginals lost access to Tasmania. They lost something like 30km per generation, and event so traumatic it made it into their dreamtime.

joshua 1 9 · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Hi, there.

So I got to thinking.

Scientists like to say the Flood was just a local one because there ain't any fossils found all over the earth.

If that's the case, are they saying fossils have been found just only in the Mesopotamian region only?

And if that's the case, what fossils have they found that are not found anywhere else in places?

Does the Bible mention penguins, kangaroos & koalas? The fossils that they find in ancient Mesopotamian are what we read about in the Bible. Wiki has a list of animals we read about in the Bible. For example Apes are mentioned with gold, silver, ivory, and peacocks among the precious things imported by Solomon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_in_the_Bible

joshua 1 9 · Apr 17, 2016

eclipsenow said:
The truth is most early settlements were beside rivers so, um, people could fish and DRINK, and so most early cultures also have various flood narratives! Because, um, rivers flood? Also fascinating is the end of the last ice age. As the ice melted the sea rose and gradually the Australian Aboriginals lost access to Tasmania. They lost something like 30km per generation, and event so traumatic it made it into their dreamtime.

There are 10,000 islands in the Pacific that were effected by the rising ocean level at the end of the last ice age 12,975 years ago. The areas that flooded are rich in Oil deposits so they have done a lot of off shore exploration looking for oil for off shore drilling. This is also were we find the Coral reefs. Science has studied this quite a bit.

The first artifacts date back 40,000 years. They find sowing needles, fishing hooks and fishing nets. This is when they came up out of Africa and took over the area where Neanderthal was living. In African they were making clothing out of the Fiber from the Fig tree. In order to come up out of African they needed to make clothing out of Animal Skins.

"Firstly among the artifacts of Africa, archeologists found they could differentiate and classify those of less than 50,000 years into many different categories, such as projectile points, engraving tools, knife blades, and drilling and piercing tools. The new technology generated a population explosion of modern humans which is believed to have led to the extinction of the Neanderthals.[5][6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic

AV1611VET · Apr 17, 2016

eclipsenow said:
The truth is most early settlements were beside rivers so, um, people could fish and DRINK, and so most early cultures also have various flood narratives!

Yes, but they get the details drastically wrong.

There were no cultures that survived the Flood.

Sumeria, Egypt and China came from Noah's offspring.

AV1611VET · Apr 17, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
Does the Bible mention penguins, kangaroos & koalas?

No.

joshua 1 9 said:
The fossils that they find in ancient Mesopotamian are what we read about in the Bible.

If you say so, brother.

joshua 1 9 said:
Wiki has a list of animals we read about in the Bible.

Neat.

joshua 1 9 said:
For example Apes are mentioned with gold, silver, ivory, and peacocks among the precious things imported by Solomon.

That is correct.

1 Kings 10:22 For the king had at sea a navy of Tharshish with the navy of Hiram: once in three years came the navy of Tharshish, bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.

And as I have mentioned many times here, Solomon, after studying the apes, concluded ...

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Notice Solomon calls evolution an "invention," not a "discovery" like evolutionists would like us to think?

Hoghead1 · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
No.If you say so, brother. Neat.
That is correct.

1 Kings 10:22 For the king had at sea a navy of Tharshish with the navy of Hiram: once in three years came the navy of Tharshish, bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.

And as I have mentioned many times here, Solomon, after studying the apes, concluded ...

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Notice Solomon calls evolution an "invention," not a "discovery" like evolutionists would like us to think?

Notice how Solomon is not a scientist, never claims to be, presents no scientific evidence of anything, and never uses the term "evolution." Your post is way, way off from the facts.

AV1611VET · Apr 17, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
Notice how Solomon is not a scientist,

Actually, no, I haven't noticed.

Solomon was a scientist-king.

Ecclesiastes 1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
Ecclesiastes 1:13a And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven:

Notice what God says about these scientist-kings?

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

He certainly sounds like a scientist to me.

Hoghead1 said:
... never claims to be,

If he did, I'm sure unbelievers would be all over that term as being an anachronism.

Hoghead1 said:
... presents no scientific evidence of anything,

He was reporting his conclusion.

And for the record, you weren't his boss.

Hoghead1 said:
... and never uses the term "evolution."

Ya ... and I heard Paul never used "Rapture," and John never used "Trinity."

What's your point?

Hogshead1 said:
Your post is way, way off from the facts.

Is it now?

You were there?

joshua 1 9 · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
No.If you say so, brother. Neat.
That is correct.

1 Kings 10:22 For the king had at sea a navy of Tharshish with the navy of Hiram: once in three years came the navy of Tharshish, bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.

And as I have mentioned many times here, Solomon, after studying the apes, concluded ...

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Notice Solomon calls evolution an "invention," not a "discovery" like evolutionists would like us to think?

Yes God made man upright but he wants to trust in his own devices. Rather we should trust in god.

The word inventions is only used in one other verse in the Bible translated "engines".

2Ch 26:15

And he (Uzziah) made in Jerusalem engines, invented by cunning men, to be on the towers and upon the bulwarks, to shoot arrows and great stones withal. And his name spread far abroad; for he was marvellously helped, till he was strong.

AV1611VET · Apr 17, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
The word inventions is only used in one other verse in the Bible translated "engines".

Groovy.

joshua 1 9 · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Actually, no, I haven't noticed.

Solomon was a scientist-king.

Ecclesiastes 1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
Ecclesiastes 1:13a And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven:

Notice what God says about these scientist-kings?

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

He certainly sounds like a scientist to me.If he did, I'm sure unbelievers would be all over that term as being an anachronism.He was reporting his conclusion.

And for the record, you weren't his boss.Ya ... and I heard Paul never used "Rapture," and John never used "Trinity."

What's your point?Is it now?

You were there?

David is said to be descended from Shem and Bathsheba descended from Ham.

Hoghead1 · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Actually, no, I haven't noticed.

Solomon was a scientist-king.

Ecclesiastes 1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
Ecclesiastes 1:13a And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven:

Notice what God says about these scientist-kings?

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

He certainly sounds like a scientist to me.If he did, I'm sure unbelievers would be all over that term as being an anachronism.He was reporting his conclusion.

And for the record, you weren't his boss.Ya ... and I heard Paul never used "Rapture," and John never used "Trinity."

What's your point?Is it now?

You were there?

My point is that you are reading in way too much into the biblical account of Solomon. Let me ask you a question. You were there? You saw and heard Solomon talking about evolution? You saw him carrying out scientific experiments? If so, you sure know far more about him than what the Bible has to say. The fact that one may be said to "search out by wisdom" has nothing to do with them being a scientists. There are all kinds of nonscientific ways to go about this. That was definitely true of Solomon, as is no record of him using any scientific mean here. Also, the facts that Paul never mentioned the Rapture, and John never mentioned the Trinity are most important to bear in mind. They challenge the whole rapture theory. It's proponents say it is biblical, but here is strong evidence it isn't. John never uses the word "Trinity," nor does he speak of the Deity of the Spirit. That raises the question as to whether he was not a strictTri8nitarian and then denied the Deity of the Spirit, which many early Christians did. The fact that the word "Trinity " does not occur in the Bible is also significant. it points to the fact that while a Trinity may be implied in the Bible, there is no through working-out of this concept. The major Trinitarian doctrines are based largely on extra-biblical sources and thinking. There is no concept of "substance" in Scripture , for example.

AV1611VET · Apr 17, 2016

joshua 1 9 said:
David is said to be descended from Shem and Bathsheba descended from Ham.

Sounds good to me.

AV1611VET · Apr 17, 2016

Hoghead1 said:
My point is that you are reading in way too much into the biblical account of Solomon.

Thankfully, you're not the one grading my paper.

Hoghead1 said:
Let me ask you a question. You were there?

I was no more there than you were in the Garden of Eden.

So if, in your opinion, I'm reading too much into Ecclesiastes, then I submit you read too much into Genesis.

KTatis · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
They???

Does that include you as well?

Nah I know better. I'd never disrespect my intellect like that.

eclipsenow said:
The truth is most early settlements were beside rivers so, um, people could fish and DRINK, and so most early cultures also have various flood narratives! Because, um, rivers flood? Also fascinating is the end of the last ice age. As the ice melted the sea rose and gradually the Australian Aboriginals lost access to Tasmania. They lost something like 30km per generation, and event so traumatic it made it into their dreamtime.

So you mean to tell me that altho every civilization talks about a violent cataclysmic deluge you still choose to interpretate that as oh it was nothing the sea levels gradually rose because they were on the coast? You still deny the fact that there are many landlocked civilizations who report the great deluge like the in can civilization and they lived in the mountains above the tree line where trees cannot grow.

Hoghead1 · Apr 17, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Thankfully, you're not the one grading my paper.I was no more there than you were in the Garden of Eden.

So if, in your opinion, I'm reading too much into Ecclesiastes, then I submit you read too much into Genesis.[/QUO
Talking about my view Genesis is way off topic here. I didn't share it anyway. So how would you know? We were talking about your understanding of Solomon and science.

nightflight · Apr 18, 2016

If all but eight were wiped out by the flood, how could there be people to witness the flood in their various localities around the world? How did these flood stories like from North America or Asia get passed down when most people died?

My Mesopotamian Challenge

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