LDS Lucifer and Jesus are not brothers!

Peter1000

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Well to reiterate. The Melchezedek priesthood only belonged to Melchezedek and Jesus Christ so you have no place claiming that one. The Aaronic priesthood was for Hebrew descendants which your faith is not in that heritage, so that priesthood is also not yours.
Yes, we have had this discussion before. But it is worth having again, and again. Priesthood is a key piece of the true religion of Jesus Christ. So it is worth talking about it.

As I remember, you told me that Melchizedec and Jesus Christ were the only ones that qualified to hold the Melchizedec priesthood, and no other persons could possibly have that priesthood because they did not qualify. You then gave me the qualifying elements, coming from a scripture in Hebrews
(Hebrews 7:3).
Here is the scripture:
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

So here are the qualifiers:

1) without father
2) without mother
3) without decent
4) having neither beginning of days
5) having no end of life
6) made like unto the Son of God
7) abideth a priest continually

It is interesting that I'm not sure about Melchizedec, so because I am unsure, let's say he qualifies.

Now let's look at Jesus. Well, Jesus had a father and a mother, I don't think he left any decendants, I know that he had an end of life on the cross, he was not made like unto the Son of God, because he was the Son of God, and he does abideth a priest continually. Therefore, by your reckoning, Jesus does not meet at least 3 of the qualifiers, so Jesus does not qualify to hold the Melchisedec priesthood.

Now, having said this, I know very well that Jesus is qualified to hold the MP. So your qualifiers are not true. But you are saying that this is the reason that men did not receive the MP from Jesus, because they are not qualified, per this Hebrews 7:3. So if you maintain that men are not qualified, and therefore no MP on earth, then you must maintain that Jesus is not qualified, which is an absurd position.

By this same kind of reasoning, if Jesus Christ does qualifies to hold the MP, then men on earth are able to qualify too. That is what a royal priesthood means, men holding the MP, acting in the name of Jesus Christ, to help Jesus bring to pass the salvation of men.

One other interesting observation. The KJV translation has at least 2 scriptures that has the word "priesthood" in them. The WE translation drops the word "priesthood" and uses the words "holy priests".
But the NLV translation drops the word "priesthood" and the words "holy priests" and uses the words "religious leaders". Can you see the danger in the different translations? At one time you told me there was no mention of "priesthood" in the NT, none at all. Well, you were right if you used a translation that didn't believe in the "priesthood". But you are wrong for most translations that do believe in the "priesthood". You really don't want to be on the wrong side of teaching "no priesthood" on earth. It is a key piece of the true church of Jesus Christ.
 
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mmksparbud

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The Priesthood was passed on by right of birth--God alone appointed Aaron and his descendants as priests. God alone can appoint a Priest. Not any dead disciple can do it--God alone. Moses anointed Aaron-but God appointed him and told Moses to anoint him. God did not appoint JS to any priesthood. By JS own admission, Moses didn't anoint him. There is a record that God told Moses to anoint Aaron--where is the record of God telling anyone to anoint JS a priest? There is no statement that ayone but the Only son of God was appoinbted as a Priest. The whole book of Hebrews states that--and Jesus as the only Son of God has no decendents---The priesthood was never passed on by the laying on of hands, right of birth alone--only elders, deacons and bishops---church leaders only---no priests. That only stsarted with the Catholics, and their claim supercedes yours.
 
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Peter1000

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Has anyone tried the mechanical translation of Genesis?
(a most interesting read)

[link to www.mechanical-translation.org]

2:17
and from the tree of the discernment of function and dysfunction you will not eat from him given that in the day you eat from him a dying you will die,

Interesting indeed when dysfunction is understood as non-procreating.

Something learned long ago, but not well supported by the text, until now!
To hard to follow. Probably won't read all of Genesis that way. But thanks for the site.
 
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Peter1000

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The Priesthood was passed on by right of birth--God alone appointed Aaron and his descendants as priests. God alone can appoint a Priest. Not any dead disciple can do it--God alone. Moses anointed Aaron-but God appointed him and told Moses to anoint him. God did not appoint JS to any priesthood. By JS own admission, Moses didn't anoint him. There is a record that God told Moses to anoint Aaron--where is the record of God telling anyone to anoint JS a priest? There is no statement that ayone but the Only son of God was appoinbted as a Priest. The whole book of Hebrews states that--and Jesus as the only Son of God has no decendents---The priesthood was never passed on by the laying on of hands, right of birth alone--only elders, deacons and bishops---church leaders only---no priests. That only stsarted with the Catholics, and their claim supercedes yours.

The very reason for the priesthood being in the hands of men, is so that God does not have to come from heaven every time there is a priest or bishop, or pastor, or apostle ordained to officiate in the affairs of the church. One good example of that is God gave Moses the right to ordain Aaron to the Aaronic Priesthood. Another good example is Jesus giving Peter the keys of the kingdom of God so that Peter and the Apostles could go out to every nation and ordain ministers to lead local congregations in the gospel.
Another good example is Jesus ordaining his Apostles.

If God doesn't pass on this priesthood, then every time there is an ordination, God would have to come from heaven and take care of that duty. Not going to happen, Never did happen. So He passes it to good men on earth to take care of the church.

As it says in Hebrews, the priesthood that Jesus held in the NT was a changed or a different priesthood that the Jews held in the OT. One of the differences was that the priesthood was no longer a hereditary priesthood. It could now be held by any worthy man, regardless of his country of origin. The OT priesthood could only be held by people from Israel and more specific from Israelites that were of the house of Levi. So this was a major change in the priesthood, which Jesus initiated. The church was going worldwide to every nation, tongue, and people, and this necessitated a change in the priesthood. It is now a holy, royal priesthood, held by all peoples that were worthy to hold the priesthood of God.

You keep mentioning that there were no priests in the NT, well that was the change in the priesthood too. There are now Apostles, evengelists, pastors, teachers, deacons, bishops, elders, etc. These are the offices of the MP, not the priest office of the AP.

The Catholic church had the priesthood in the beginning, but because of the corruption within that orgainization, Jesus took the priesthood away. Eventually Jesus restored the true priesthood through Peter,James,and John to JS. They are not dead men, they are alive and well, doing the work that Jesus wants them to do, even today, and they will yet do many wonderful works for Jesus in the future, even sitting in judgement of the 12 tribes of Israel. So these men are not dead.
 
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mmksparbud

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No---God ordained Aaron---no other priest did He have to ordain after that--not until He appointed Jesus Christ--and no other has been needed. Jesus ordained apostles they ordained bishops and elders and that can be passed on. Priesthood was by birthright only. Jesus Christ is the only High Priest and the business of the church is run by the elders, bishops and decons. God set His own olan into action and needs no man to change it.
 
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mmksparbud

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Has anyone tried the mechanical translation of Genesis?
(a most interesting read)

[link to www.mechanical-translation.org]

2:17
and from the tree of the discernment of function and dysfunction you will not eat from him given that in the day you eat from him a dying you will die,

Interesting indeed when dysfunction is understood as non-procreating.

Something learned long ago, but not well supported by the text, until now!


Yes---I refer to it a lot---just how you get procreating out of that is beyond me.

DYSFUNCTIONAL: Impaired or abnormal action other than that for which a person or thing is intended. Something that does not function within its intended purpose. [Strong's #: 7451, 7455]
http://www.mechanical-translation.org/mt/dictionary_d.html

Genesis 6:5
and Yhwh saw that the dysfunctions of the human in the land was abundant, and all the thoughts of inventions of his heart was only dysfunctional every day,
http://www.mechanical-translation.org/mt/translation6.html

They certainly were procreating--
 
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mmksparbud

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Each one of the Holy Trinity do call each other God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That is not new. I have given you this scripture before, where God the Father calls His Son Jesus, God (PSalms 45:7). I have not seen a scripture that calls the Holy Spirit, God, but I know he is part of the Holy Trinity. So if there are 3 Gods in the Trinity that call each other God, why not just admit there are 3 Gods that are in such unity of purpose that it is as if they are 1 God. These 3 Gods constitute what we call God and there is no other God beside me. That is a phrase that makes sense even though there are 3 Gods.

TBL says:
This just once more proves, a different Jesus.


Matthew 20:17 clearly proves that your Nicean Jesus is absolutely different from the NT Jesus, who the LDS believe in. Your Nicean Jesus is a 3 in 1 God. Matthew's Jesus is 3 distinct Gods, so united in purpose that it is as if they are 1 God.

That is why God the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit can all 3 be in different places at the same time. Have you ever noticed that in the NT. A Nicean 3 in 1 God cannot do that, all 3 Gods/Persons have to be at the same place at the same time, all the time. If there is 1 time that all 3 are not together, it shatters the 3 in 1 God doctrine and it is proven inadequate to explain their nature.


God the Holy Spirit can be anywhere at any time, so can God the Father--the only who can't anymore---is Jesus because of His humanity. That is why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit when He left.. because the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and does the work of God.
Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
 
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MJFlores

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Oh boy! There are quite a number of doctrines you people hold that does not conform with the bible.

Who was Satan's Father?

Before Satan was called Satan, what is his name?

Isaiah 14:12-15 New King James Version (NKJV)

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

satandragon.jpg


Lucifer was his name. He wanted to be like the Most High - like God, himself.
He was called son of the morning. He was an angel, fallen but nevertheless an angel. Having said that we move to another verse:

Hebrews 1:5 New King James Version (NKJV)

For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?

The answer to these is a simple - NONE of the angels did God said those things. So what are the angels therefore?

Hebrews 1:5-6 New International Version (NIV)

For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?
Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

Let all God’s angels worship him.”

So, those who have the same father are called children of that father and brothers and sisters.
Conclusion: Christ and Lucifer are brothers. They have the same Father. Even if make up unbiblical doctrine that they are different species, they are still brothers. So, LDS are correct.

So Lucifer who was an angel was never God's son
Because God never said to an angel "You are my son"
That goes true with the rest of the angels.
But when God brought his first born into the world

Matthew 3:16-17 New International Version (NIV)

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.

Therefore:
  1. Lucifer who was an angel is an angel. No angel became a son.
  2. On the other hand, God told everybody that Jesus is His Son and is loved and pleased with him.
  3. Lucifer and The Lord Jesus Christ were never brothers.
  4. Lucifer was an angel (disqualified) and the Lord Jesus is a human born through the spirit of God

Who created Lucifer and who created the Lord Jesus?
God created them both.
God created angels to be worshipers, servants, messengers, gatherers and death bringers.

If I were to make an allegory: Distinction between a former employee and the Heir would be more apt.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Oh boy! There are quite a number of doctrines you people hold that does not conform with the bible.



Before Satan was called Satan, what is his name?

Isaiah 14:12-15 New King James Version (NKJV)

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

View attachment 193414

Lucifer was his name. He wanted to be like the Most High - like God, himself.
He was called son of the morning. He was an angel, fallen but nevertheless an angel. Having said that we move to another verse:

Hebrews 1:5 New King James Version (NKJV)

For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?

The answer to these is a simple - NONE of the angels did God said those things. So what are the angels therefore?

Hebrews 1:5-6 New International Version (NIV)

For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?
Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

Let all God’s angels worship him.”



So Lucifer who was an angel was never God's son
Because God never said to an angel "You are my son"
That goes true with the rest of the angels.
But when God brought his first born into the world

Matthew 3:16-17 New International Version (NIV)

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.

Therefore:
  1. Lucifer who was an angel is an angel. No angel became a son.
  2. On the other hand, God told everybody that Jesus is His Son and is loved and pleased with him.
  3. Lucifer and The Lord Jesus Christ were never brothers.
  4. Lucifer was an angel (disqualified) and the Lord Jesus is a human born through the spirit of God

Who created Lucifer and who created the Lord Jesus?
God created them both.
God created angels to be worshipers, servants, messengers, gatherers and death bringers.

If I were to make an allegory: Distinction between a former employee and the Heir would be more apt.
I'm sorry, but I don't see the answer to my question here (maybe I missed it). *WHO* is Satan/Lucifer's Father?
 
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JLB777

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Who created Lucifer and who created the Lord Jesus?
God created them both.
God created angels to be worshipers, servants, messengers, gatherers and death bringers.

Jesus created all things, including angels.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17


Jesus stretched out the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth, and is the Creator of all things, and is Lord.


8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Hebrews 1:8-10



Jesus Christ is Lord, the Lord God, our Savior.

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 Peter 1:1


and again


13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Titus 2:13-14


and again



16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16




JLB
 
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JLB777

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I'm sorry, but I don't see the answer to my question here (maybe I missed it). *WHO* is Satan/Lucifer's Father?


God is the Father of all spirit's.

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9


Lucifer was created as perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you. Ezekiel 28:14-15



He was cast out of Heaven, and became the enemy, adversary, Satan.


JLB
 
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Jane_Doe

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God is the Father of all spirit's.

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9


Lucifer was created as perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you. Ezekiel 28:14-15



He was cast out of Heaven, and became the enemy, adversary, Satan.


JLB
100% agreed.
 
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MJFlores

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God is the Father of all spirit's.

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9

100% agreed.

Jane_Doe agreed with JLB777 but how come we skipped:

Hebrews 1:5-6 New International Version (NIV)

For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

But I will not skip JLB777 Hebrews 12:9 - the verse runs a little off with Hebrews 1:5-6 doesn't it? Is that the right translation of Heb 12:9 or is it something else? Lets check other translations:

Hebrews 12:9 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

Furthermore, we had physical fathers who disciplined us, and we respected them; how much more should we submit to our spiritual Father and live!

Hebrews 12:9Contemporary English Version (CEV)

Our earthly fathers correct us, and we still respect them. Isn’t it even better to be given true life by letting our spiritual Father correct us?

Hebrews 12:9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

We have all had fathers here on earth who corrected us with discipline. And we respected them. So it is even more important that we accept discipline from the Father of our spirits. If we do this, we will have life.

Hebrews 12:9 Good News Translation (GNT)

In the case of our human fathers, they punished us and we respected them. How much more, then, should we submit to our spiritual Father and live!

Now Hebrews 1:5-6 is no longer off with Hebrews 12:9

Still Lucifer is not the brother of the Lord Jesus
Lucifer was an ex-angel (now the adversary) and the Lord Jesus Christ is a man (the Son of God as the Father addresses him)

mej.jpg


Matthew 17:4-6 New International Version (NIV)

Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!

When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified.

Lucifer = Satan = ex Angel = never a Son - Hebrews 1:5-6
Father of spirits = mistranslated
our spiritual Father or Father of our spirits = sound translations
The Lord Jesus = expressed declaration from God = Son, loved and pleased
Therefore: Satan and Jesus were never brothers

In fairness to the Mormons, I have watched this video on YouTube before posting my comments and replying to you. The Mormons have 2 chapels in the city, I'm in.

 
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withwonderingawe

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It's a good video but I think it could have explained a little bit more.

1, we believe the being inside of you which we call an intelligence has always existed, God the Father clothes this being in spirit matter thus he becomes the Father of Spirits.

2, Yahweh/Jesus was the first born of the spirit as the video explained. His septer was a septer of righteousness and the Father then anointed him God with the oil of gladness above his "fellows" as Heb 1 explains.

3, the 'fellows' are us, the angels are us, angels are not some other third kind of being with wings but the spirits of men. The angel who appeared to John in Rev 22 said "I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book" so he wasn't some sort of different creature but a passed prophet.

4, and this is to your point, Yahweh/Jesus was the only begotten in the flesh. None of the other spirit children were begotten as Jesus was in the flesh. But let me point on Job 1 and 38 to you and I'll put in the Hebrew wording

6"Now there was a day when the sons of elohiym(s) or the Gods came to present themselves before Yahweh and Satan came also among them."

4 Where wast thou when I/Yahweh laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding....
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of (the) elohiym(s) shouted for joy?

There were many sons of the Elohiym(s). I asked myself what does it mean by 'the morning stars' so I started looking. In Rev 22 Jesus is called the bright and morning star. Then I found that the word Lucifer in the Hebrew means; morning star, son of dawn. Thus you have the morning stars Jesus and Lucifer sing together at the foundation of the world and before the fall of mankind.
 
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MJFlores

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It's a good video but I think it could have explained a little bit more.

1, we believe the being inside of you which we call an intelligence has always existed, God the Father clothes this being in spirit matter thus he becomes the Father of Spirits.

2, Yahweh/Jesus was the first born of the spirit as the video explained. His septer was a septer of righteousness and the Father then anointed him God with the oil of gladness above his "fellows" as Heb 1 explains.

3, the 'fellows' are us, the angels are us, angels are not some other third kind of being with wings but the spirits of men. The angel who appeared to John in Rev 22 said "I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book" so he wasn't some sort of different creature but a passed prophet.

4, and this is to your point, Yahweh/Jesus was the only begotten in the flesh. None of the other spirit children were begotten as Jesus was in the flesh. But let me point on Job 1 and 38 to you and I'll put in the Hebrew wording

6"Now there was a day when the sons of elohiym(s) or the Gods came to present themselves before Yahweh and Satan came also among them."

4 Where wast thou when I/Yahweh laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding....
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of (the) elohiym(s) shouted for joy?

There were many sons of the Elohiym(s). I asked myself what does it mean by 'the morning stars' so I started looking. In Rev 22 Jesus is called the bright and morning star. Then I found that the word Lucifer in the Hebrew means; morning star, son of dawn. Thus you have the morning stars Jesus and Lucifer sing together at the foundation of the world and before the fall of mankind.

Really had a hard time weaving through 1-7, I was looking for the verses where these statements came from. Except 7 which I believe is Job 38:7.

1. I have clarified this above as a mistranslation and showed 3 other bible versions to correct such.
Lucifer and Jesus are not brothers"]LDS - Lucifer and Jesus are not brothers!!

2. This is where Mormon belief kicks in - multiple gods. But what does the bible say how many gods are there?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

I think that is self explanatory, sure the LDS could have so-called gods in heaven or on earth, the Catholics and Protestants could have many gods and lords (Trinity) but for us - there is one God, the Father - that is what the bible said.

3. Has a bible reference, thank you.
Revelation 22:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

I think this verse no bearing whatsoever. It shows that angels shouldn't be worshiped unlike some religions are doing - a combination of idolatry and angel worship.
catholic angel.jpg

Sweetest Heart of Mary Catholic Church (Detroit, MI) - herald angel
This is a dud, moving on...

4. Other translations of the bible say "sons of God" others say "angels" while others say "children" again these are mistranslated versions if they are not consistent with other verses. A more neutral translation would be NRSV.
NRSV.jpg


Job 1:5-7 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

And when the feast days had run their course, Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “It may be that my children have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.” This is what Job always did.

One day the heavenly beings came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”

Well - Satan came among them. The Lord Jesus isn't here. He wasn't born yet.

Job 38:1-8 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind:

“Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
Gird up your loins like a man,
I will question you, and you shall declare to me.
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone
when the morning stars sang together
and all the heavenly beings shouted for joy
?
“Or who shut in the sea with doors
when it burst out from the womb?—

Why would we assume that the morning stars above refer to the Lord Jesus Christ and Satan? As in they were in a duet? It is inconclusive.
Talking about duet - this song is nice. You gotta watch it.
Let us take a breather.

 
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MJFlores

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Forgot to mention this: Is there a relationship between the Lord Jesus Christ and the Devil?

2 Corinthians 6:15 Contemporary English Version (CEV)

Is Christ a friend of Satan? Can people who follow the Lord have anything in common with those who don’t?

The questions are answerable by a NO.
Christ is not a friend of Satan - how much more a brother?

 
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@JLB777
You quoted:

Colossians 1:15-17 New International Version (NIV)

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Then said "Jesus created all things, including angels."
Ahhh...
The first phrase was: The Son is the image of the invisible God
Very true - how does invisible like?
Invisible is something you can't see, isn't it so?
God is invisible as Col 1:15-17 said.
However is Christ visible, isn't it so? Yes he is and we can read this on:

Acts 10:40 New International Version (NIV)

but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

There you go, Christ is visible and not only that when the Lord Jesus died, God raised him from the dead.

So God did the raising and he is invisible - how can the Son be the image of God? If God is unseen what is the nature of God? This comes from his Son the Lord Jesus Christ:

John 4:24 New International Version (NIV)

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

That is why God couldn't be seen (invisible) - God is spirit. When Christ said that he was very visible to the Samaritan woman.
samaritan woman.jpg

And if there is no invisible God, Apostle Paul wouldn't write:

The Son is the image of the invisible God,

He would have written something like: The Christ is the image of himself which doesn't make sense at all and unnecessary.

The Son is Jesus Christ
The Invisible God is the Father (that is why at the onset Paul wrote The Son is the....)

I'm not done yet with this verse - its just a scratch.
I have to run errands

beback.jpg
 
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