LDS Lucifer and Jesus are not brothers!

Peter1000 · Apr 11, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
Yes, the priesthood of Jesus Christ. That Mormons stole. What have you got that you haven't stolen from Jews or Christians? Is anything REALLY yours?

Thank you for admitting that we have it. That's a step in the right direction.

Tommorrow lets talk about "if we stole it". I have to go tonight. I love the discussion, don't get too disgusted with me that you say good-bye, sometimes I get too playful.

Super14LDS · Apr 11, 2016

Peter1000 said:
Can God make us divine?

Can God change our human DNA to God DNA?

Metamorphosis happens within the same species with the same DNA (please correct me if I am wrong). I'm sure God can do whatever He says He will do.

Super14LDS · Apr 12, 2016

Peter1000 said:
So we have a question about a particular word, lets call it X. Just in English X could have 3 definitions. Usually in the dictionary, it lists the most common definition first, and so forth. Since we are fluent in speaking and reading modern English, and we recognize the little nuances that can present themselves, and we can usually put the word in context (since we understand the context), we can usually come to an agreement as to what this X means.

But, since there are times that we can not come to an agreement about X in English, lets now see if we can go back to the original Hebrew or Greek to help us. What we find often is the X in Hebrew and Greek has many definitions also. This time, however, since we are not fluent in Hebrew or Greek and we do not understand the little nuanses of the day, 2000-4000 years ago, and it is hard to know the context that the word was used in, it becomes much more difficult to come to consensus about what the ancients meant when they said X.

So when you have a person that translates this X into English, another translator is so incensed that the translation is not right, so he translates X the way he thinks it is and so forth, and so forth, and so forth, until today there are 50+ translations from the Hebrew and the Greek that are all supposed to be the best available English transation.

So I think, if you cannot agree with me about X in English, the probability that you will agree with me about X in Hebrew and Greek is very low.

The great thing about looking up X in Hebrew or Greek is that you can pretty much come to a definition that supports your agenda, or your belief. in fact I can quarantee it.

Has anyone tried the mechanical translation of Genesis?
(a most interesting read)

[link to www.mechanical-translation.org]

2:17
and from the tree of the discernment of function and dysfunction you will not eat from him given that in the day you eat from him a dying you will die,

Interesting indeed when dysfunction is understood as non-procreating.

Something learned long ago, but not well supported by the text, until now!

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Super14LDS said:
Has anyone tried the mechanical translation of Genesis?
(a most interesting read)

[link to www.mechanical-translation.org]

2:17
and from the tree of the discernment of function and dysfunction you will not eat from him given that in the day you eat from him a dying you will die,

Interesting indeed when dysfunction is understood as non-procreating.

Something learned long ago, but not well supported by the text, until now!

I'm not going to read such craziness. No thank you.

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Peter1000 said:
Thank you for admitting that we have it. That's a step in the right direction.

Tommorrow lets talk about "if we stole it". I have to go tonight. I love the discussion, don't get too disgusted with me that you say good-bye, sometimes I get too playful.

It's tomorrow and I am ready to talk about if it was stolen. Are you up?

Peter1000 · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
Each member of the Trinity calls each other God.

This just once more proves, a different Jesus

Each one of the Holy Trinity do call each other God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That is not new. I have given you this scripture before, where God the Father calls His Son Jesus, God (PSalms 45:7). I have not seen a scripture that calls the Holy Spirit, God, but I know he is part of the Holy Trinity. So if there are 3 Gods in the Trinity that call each other God, why not just admit there are 3 Gods that are in such unity of purpose that it is as if they are 1 God. These 3 Gods constitute what we call God and there is no other God beside me. That is a phrase that makes sense even though there are 3 Gods.

TBL says:
This just once more proves, a different Jesus.

Matthew 20:17 clearly proves that your Nicean Jesus is absolutely different from the NT Jesus, who the LDS believe in. Your Nicean Jesus is a 3 in 1 God. Matthew's Jesus is 3 distinct Gods, so united in purpose that it is as if they are 1 God.

That is why God the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit can all 3 be in different places at the same time. Have you ever noticed that in the NT. A Nicean 3 in 1 God cannot do that, all 3 Gods/Persons have to be at the same place at the same time, all the time. If there is 1 time that all 3 are not together, it shatters the 3 in 1 God doctrine and it is proven inadequate to explain their nature.

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Peter1000 said:
Each one of the Holy Trinity do call each other God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That is not new. I have given you this scripture before, where God the Father calls His Son Jesus, God (PSalms 45:7). I have not seen a scripture that calls the Holy Spirit, God, but I know he is part of the Holy Trinity. So if there are 3 Gods in the Trinity that call each other God, why not just admit there are 3 Gods that are in such unity of purpose that it is as if they are 1 God. These 3 Gods constitute what we call God and there is no other God beside me. That is a phrase that makes sense even though there are 3 Gods.

TBL says:
This just once more proves, a different Jesus.

Matthew 20:17 clearly proves that your Nicean Jesus is absolutely different from the NT Jesus, who the LDS believe in. Your Nicean Jesus is a 3 in 1 God. Matthew's Jesus is 3 distinct Gods, so united in purpose that it is as if they are 1 God.

That is why God the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit can all 3 be in different places at the same time. Have you ever noticed that in the NT. A Nicean 3 in 1 God cannot do that, all 3 Gods/Persons have to be at the same place at the same time, all the time. If there is 1 time that all 3 are not together, it shatters the 3 in 1 God doctrine and it is proven inadequate to explain their nature.

So in your opinion, what should be the Books of the Bible. Since you say they are wrong.

Peter1000 · Apr 12, 2016

mmksparbud said:
Oh--we fully understand that---what you do not comprehend is that we do not become Gods--there are no other Gods--God the Father is it and Jesus Christ His ONLY Son---and the Holy Spirit--no other Gods means just that, not ever, past present or future.

Always remember, Jesus is God's "only begotten son". Not His "only son". The newer translations, that are Nicean driven, make it sound like Jesus is God's "only son". That is not true. Jesus is God's "only begotten son". There is a lot of difference. Do you see the danger of different translations?

That's why Jesus made such an effort to communicate this to Mary, when he said I ascend to My Father and Your Father (Matthew 20:17). So according to Jesus, Mary is God's Father also. You don't get to argue with me about this scripture in the NT, you would have to argue with Jesus. Jesus is God's "only begotten son". The Father has many, many other sons and daughters. The NT is full of this doctrine.
Matthew 20 is just 1 of many that support this doctrine. You cannot discard it.

Peter1000 · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
So in your opinion, what should be the Books of the Bible. Since you say they are wrong.

The bible that the LDS read and use is the KJV and all the books of the KJV are appropriate and full of truth.

Peter1000 · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
It's tomorrow and I am ready to talk about if it was stolen. Are you up?

I am awake and going. So tell me why you think we stole the priesthood?

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Peter1000 said:
Always remember, Jesus is God's "only begotten son". Not His "only son". The newer translations, that are Nicean driven, make it sound like Jesus is God's "only son". That is not true. Jesus is God's "only begotten son". There is a lot difference. Do you see the danger of different translations?

That's why Jesus made such an effort to communicate this to Mary, when he said I ascend to My Father and Your Father (Matthew 20:17). So according to Jesus, Mary is God's Father also. You don't get to argue with me about this scripture in the NT, you would have to argue with Jesus. Jesus is God's "only begotten son". The Father has many, many other sons and daughters. The NT is full of this doctrine.
Matthew 20 is just 1 of many that support this doctrine. You cannot discard it.

What part of the Bible is in the original language do you not understand?

That is not messed up by translations. It's not even English.

What part of there is no ENGLISH Translation in the original language.

Your giving me a headache with this same craziness over and over.

What does it have to do with Nicea? I am so confused by you.

Peter1000 · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
What part of the Bible is in the original language do you not understand?

That is not messed up by translations. It's not even English.

What part of there is no ENGLISH Translation in the original language.

Your giving me a headache with this same craziness over and over.

What does it have to do with Nicea? I am so confused by you.
TBL says:
What part of the Bible is in the original language do you not understand?

I'm not sure what you are asking, so I will guess. All parts of the bible in the original language I do not understand. I cannot read Greek or Hebrew.

TBL:
That is not messed up by translations. It's not even English.

What is not messed up by translations? What is not even English?

TBL:
What part of there is no ENGLISH Translation in the original language.

Don't know what you mean.

TBL:
What does it have to do with Nicea? I am so confused by you.

The Council of Nicea was in 325 AD, and about 120 AD the debate started in earnest about the nature of God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost. Most Christians by 120 AD believed that God the Father was in heaven and had sent His only begotten son to earth. They knew Jesus had come to earth and had healed the sick, did all manner of miracles and even raised the dead, forgave sin, and died for us on the cross. So if God was in the heavens and Jesus was on the earth, then they were 2 separate and distinct Persons that worked together for the salvation of man. Both were Gods in their own respects, and it is reflected in the NT. By 150 AD, Justin Martyr still taught that God the Father and Jesus were separate and distince individuals as reflected in the NT.
Then men started the debate, well if Jesus did all these wonderful things, he must have been God himself. No, others said, Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Father. He did all these miracles by the gift of his Father. Others said, since he is the only begotten son of God he is fully God. No, he is fully man. So on and on it went. By 215 AD Sebellius taught that God and Jesus and the HS were 1 God with 3 facets, or masks. This teaching was callled heresy and he was excommunicated by Pople Callixtus I in 220 AD. He opened the door to linking God and Jesus and the HS into 1 God and so 100 years later when the Nicean council met under the authority of a Roman Emperor (not even a Christian) we have the 3 Persons in 1 God doctrine (not a lot different that Sabellianism) that is now the doctrine of the church. Even though it was contrary in many regards to the NT.

So when I say your Jesus is the Nicean Jesus, he is different from the NT Jesus by 300 years of human debate and power struggles between the 5 major Christian sees.

withwonderingawe · Apr 12, 2016

Peter1000 said:
Each one of the Holy Trinity do call each other God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That is not new. I have given you this scripture before, where God the Father calls His Son Jesus, God (PSalms 45:7). I have not seen a scripture that calls the Holy Spirit, God, but I know he is part of the Holy Trinity. So if there are 3 Gods in the Trinity that call each other God, why not just admit there are 3 Gods that are in such unity of purpose that it is as if they are 1 God. These 3 Gods constitute what we call God and there is no other God beside me. That is a phrase that makes sense even though there are 3 Gods.

TBL says:
This just once more proves, a different Jesus.

Matthew 20:17 clearly proves that your Nicean Jesus is absolutely different from the NT Jesus, who the LDS believe in. Your Nicean Jesus is a 3 in 1 God. Matthew's Jesus is 3 distinct Gods, so united in purpose that it is as if they are 1 God.

That is why God the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit can all 3 be in different places at the same time. Have you ever noticed that in the NT. A Nicean 3 in 1 God cannot do that, all 3 Gods/Persons have to be at the same place at the same time, all the time. If there is 1 time that all 3 are not together, it shatters the 3 in 1 God doctrine and it is proven inadequate to explain their nature.

Nope nope nope they have it all figured out the one god can be in three different places at one time cause some how they divide each other up and can be everywhere at once. It's so big It fills the universe and yet small enough to fit in your heart. It is neither here or there because there is no there there.

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

withwonderingawe said:
Nope nope nope they have it all figured out the one god can be in three different places at one time cause some how they divide each other up and can be everywhere at once. It's so big It fills the universe and yet small enough to fit in your heart. It is neither here or there because there is no there there.

What God do you think that can create the heavens and the earth, all animals, human beings and the universe cannot be in three places at any time?

What can your god do?

Peter1000 · Apr 12, 2016

withwonderingawe said:
Nope nope nope they have it all figured out the one god can be in three different places at one time cause some how they divide each other up and can be everywhere at once. It's so big It fills the universe and yet small enough to fit in your heart. It is neither here or there because there is no there there.

Take a deep breath, and remain civil. It is a difficult and wonderful discussion. I'm sure they get as frustrated with us as we sometimes get frustrated with them. It is not easy to come to an agreement. The discussion is everything though, so give them something real interesting to think about, and we all remain friends even though we disagree. Thanks, love your posts.

Peter1000 · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
What God do you think that can create the heavens and the earth, all animals, human beings and the universe cannot be in three places at any time?

What can your god do?

He can create and be in 3 places at the same time too. They are the same God. We believe in God the Father and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the HG. Just like you.

Peter1000 · Apr 12, 2016

ToBeLoved said:
It's tomorrow and I am ready to talk about if it was stolen. Are you up?

Did you figure out how we stole the priesthood yet? You made a real interesting statement, I was just wondering how you came to that conclusion? Let me know.

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

Peter1000 said:
Did you figure out how we stole the priesthood yet? You made a real interesting statement, I was just wondering how you came to that conclusion? Let me know.

Well to reiterate. The Melchezedek priesthood only belonged to Melchezedek and Jesus Christ so you have no place claiming that one. The Aaronic priesthood was for Hebrew descendants which your faith is not in that heritage, so that priesthood is also not yours.

mmksparbud · Apr 12, 2016

Peter1000 said:
Always remember, Jesus is God's "only begotten son". Not His "only son". The newer translations, that are Nicean driven, make it sound like Jesus is God's "only son". That is not true. Jesus is God's "only begotten son". There is a lot of difference. Do you see the danger of different translations?

That's why Jesus made such an effort to communicate this to Mary, when he said I ascend to My Father and Your Father (Matthew 20:17). So according to Jesus, Mary is God's Father also. You don't get to argue with me about this scripture in the NT, you would have to argue with Jesus. Jesus is God's "only begotten son". The Father has many, many other sons and daughters. The NT is full of this doctrine.
Matthew 20 is just 1 of many that support this doctrine. You cannot discard it.

Oh, but yes. I most certainly can and so discard it!!!

μονογενής
monogenēs
mon-og-en-ace
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole: - only (begotten, child).

#3439 μονογενής monogenes {mon-og-en-ace'} from G3441 and G1096; TDNT - 4:737,606; adj
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) single of its kind, only
1a) used of only sons or daughters
(viewed in relation to their parents)
1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole:—only (begotten, child).
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

#3439.
μονογενη´ς
monogenēs; from 3441 and 1085; only begotten:—
NASB - only(3), only begotten(6).

This is the only way that the original Greek will copy--It won't copy in one sentence structure-- John 1:18 Commentaries & Bibles">1:18 ThEONto-a-deity2316{N-ASM}">θεὸν "ThEON2316{N-ASM}">To-a-Deity" OUDEISnot-moreover-one3762{A-NSM-N}">οὐδεὶς "OUDEIS3762{A-NSM-N}">not-moreover-one" hEÔRAKENit-had-come-to-discern-unto3708{V-RAI-3S-ATT} / 5758">ἑώρακεν "hEÔRAKEN3708{V-RAI-3S-ATT} / 5758">it-had-come-to-discern-unto" PÔPOTEunto-whither-which-also4455{ADV}">πώποτε: "PÔPOTE4455{ADV}">unto-whither-which-also;" MONOGENÊSalone-kindreded3439{A-NSM}">μονογενὴς "MONOGENÊS3439{A-NSM}">alone-kindreded" ThEOSa-deity2316{N-NSM}">θεὸς "ThEOS2316{N-NSM}">a-Deity" hOthe-one3588{T-NSM}">ὁ "hO3588{T-NSM}">the-one" ÔNbeing1510{V-PAP-NSM} / 5723">ὢν "ÔN1510{V-PAP-NSM} / 5723">being" EISinto1519{PREP}">εἰς "EIS1519{PREP}">into" TONto-the-one3588{T-ASM}">τὸν "TON3588{T-ASM}">to-the-one" KOLPONto-a-bosom2859{N-ASM}">κόλπον "KOLPON2859{N-ASM}">to-a-bosom" TOUof-the-one3588{T-GSM}">τοῦ "TOU3588{T-GSM}">of-the-one" PATROSof-a-father3962{N-GSM}">πατρὸς "PATROS3962{N-GSM}">of-a-Father" EKEINOSthe-one-thither1565{D-NSM}">ἐκεῖνος "EKEINOS1565{D-NSM}">the-one-thither" EXÊGÊSATOit-led-out-unto1834{V-ADI-3S} / 5662">ἐξηγήσατο. "EXÊGÊSATO1834{V-ADI-3S} / 5662">it-led-out-unto."

In the original Greek, which is your preference is it not (it is mine)---only begotten is actually----"alone-kindred--a Diety--

ToBeLoved · Apr 12, 2016

mmksparbud said:
Oh, but yes. I most certainly can and so discard it!!!

μονογενής
monogenēs
mon-og-en-ace
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole: - only (begotten, child).

#3439 μονογενής monogenes {mon-og-en-ace'} from G3441 and G1096; TDNT - 4:737,606; adj
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) single of its kind, only
1a) used of only sons or daughters
(viewed in relation to their parents)
1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole:—only (begotten, child).
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

#3439.

μονογενη´ς

monogenēs; from 3441 and 1085; only begotten:—

NASB - only(3), only begotten(6).

This is the only way that the original Greek will copy--It won't copy in one sentence structure-- John 1:18 Commentaries & Bibles">1:18 ThEONto-a-deity2316{N-ASM}">θεὸν "ThEON2316{N-ASM}">To-a-Deity" OUDEISnot-moreover-one3762{A-NSM-N}">οὐδεὶς "OUDEIS3762{A-NSM-N}">not-moreover-one" hEÔRAKENit-had-come-to-discern-unto3708{V-RAI-3S-ATT} / 5758">ἑώρακεν "hEÔRAKEN3708{V-RAI-3S-ATT} / 5758">it-had-come-to-discern-unto" PÔPOTEunto-whither-which-also4455{ADV}">πώποτε: "PÔPOTE4455{ADV}">unto-whither-which-also;" MONOGENÊSalone-kindreded3439{A-NSM}">μονογενὴς "MONOGENÊS3439{A-NSM}">alone-kindreded" ThEOSa-deity2316{N-NSM}">θεὸς "ThEOS2316{N-NSM}">a-Deity" hOthe-one3588{T-NSM}">ὁ "hO3588{T-NSM}">the-one" ÔNbeing1510{V-PAP-NSM} / 5723">ὢν "ÔN1510{V-PAP-NSM} / 5723">being" EISinto1519{PREP}">εἰς "EIS1519{PREP}">into" TONto-the-one3588{T-ASM}">τὸν "TON3588{T-ASM}">to-the-one" KOLPONto-a-bosom2859{N-ASM}">κόλπον "KOLPON2859{N-ASM}">to-a-bosom" TOUof-the-one3588{T-GSM}">τοῦ "TOU3588{T-GSM}">of-the-one" PATROSof-a-father3962{N-GSM}">πατρὸς "PATROS3962{N-GSM}">of-a-Father" EKEINOSthe-one-thither1565{D-NSM}">ἐκεῖνος "EKEINOS1565{D-NSM}">the-one-thither" EXÊGÊSATOit-led-out-unto1834{V-ADI-3S} / 5662">ἐξηγήσατο. "EXÊGÊSATO1834{V-ADI-3S} / 5662">it-led-out-unto."

In the original Greek, which is your preference is it not (it is mine)---only begotten is actually----"alone-kindred--a Diety--

They wish they had any history or truth.

LDS Lucifer and Jesus are not brothers!

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