Futurist Only Damascus and animals

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keras

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Note that the tribulation's 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), as in only a few years before. The day of the Lord itself won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming
Therein lies our main point of contention.
Your belief the Sixth Seal isn't a Day of the Lord, [there have been many DoL's and there are more to come] because the people saying that are mistaken, is an error and must be wrong, for it isn't just a few people who say: hide us from Almighty God and the Lamb, for great of their wrath has come. Read Revelation 6:15 VERY carefully: it is everyone on earth that says that.
Your idea that everyone on earth will be mistaken at the Sixth Seal, is wrong, for I and many others who know the truth, WILL know the Day of the Lord's wrath has arrived.
The Day of Jesus' Second Advent, is referred to in Revelation 16:14b....as the Great Day of God Almighty.

I disagree with all the rest of your theories, they mostly deny and twist scripture to suit your personal beliefs.
 
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Psalm3704

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I disagree with all the rest of your theories, they mostly deny and twist scripture to suit your personal beliefs.

Any of these sound familiar? Boy! You have the audacity to accuse others of denying and twisting. But I still accuse you as a brother.

1) The world will be destroy by a coronal mass ejection.

2) All of God's people including the church must move to the holy land and live there during the tribulation.

3) Nobody goes to heaven except Christ, never have and never will.








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keras said in post 201:

Read Revelation 6:15 VERY carefully: it is everyone on earth that says that.

Note that nothing requires that. For in Revelation 6:15, the original Greek word (pas: G3956) translated as "every" doesn't have to mean absolutely everyone, but can mean "all manner of" (cf. Acts 10:12). I.e.. all manner of people (whether unbelievers or believers) could mistakenly think that the 6th seal is the wrath of YHWH God, just as, at some subsequent point, "all" (manner of) people will mistakenly worship the Antichrist (Revelation 13:8).
 
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Psalm3704 said in post 202 [in the signature]:

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How can there be a post trib rapture when the elects are gather from heaven? People go up in a rapture, they don't come down.

Note that Matthew 24:31's parallel verse of Mark 13:27 shows that the church will be gathered together from both heaven and earth.

The way this will work is: 1 Thessalonians 3:13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 show that at Jesus' 2nd coming, the souls of all obedient dead believers of all times will be brought down from the 3rd heaven with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14-15), and their souls will descend to the earth, and their physical bodies will resurrect/rise from their graves (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Then they and all believers who will survive the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 on the earth (those who will still be "alive and remain") will be raptured up high into the air above the places all around the globe where they will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17a), and then they will be gathered together from the sky (the 1st heaven) all around the globe (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) to the one place in the sky where the returned Jesus will be (1 Thessalonians 4:17b), which will be in the clouds above Jerusalem, before he descends to set his feet on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5, Acts 1:11-12).

It is because of this 2nd-coming rapture into the sky, and then the gathering to where in the sky Jesus will be (and then the marriage of the obedient part of the church there to Jesus: Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), that the obedient part of the church will already be with Jesus when he subsequently descends from the sky (the 1st heaven) to the earth (Revelation 19:14, Revelation 17:14, Zechariah 14:5c,4).
 
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keras

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Any of these sound familiar? Boy! You have the audacity to accuse others of denying and twisting. But I still accuse you as a brother.
Judge not or you will be judged. Matthew 7:1, James 4:11-12
1) The world will be destroy by a coronal mass ejection.
THAT is twisting what I have pointed out. Bible Prophecy says the Lord will judge the world with fire on His Day of wrath. The final destruction and remaking of the heavens and the earth happens after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1
2) All of God's people including the church must move to the holy land and live there during the tribulation.
All true, righteous Christians are God's people, not necessarily all the established Church. Many prophesies prove that they will live in peace and prosperity in all of that area given to Abraham. Those who maintain their faith in the Lord will be taken to a place of safety during the Great Tribulation. Some will not and they will experience the G.T. Daniel 11:32
Nobody goes to heaven except Christ, never have and never will.
These are Jesus' Words: No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13
 
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keras

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Note that nothing requires that. For in Revelation 6:15, the original Greek word (pas: G3956) translated as "every" doesn't have to mean absolutely everyone, but can mean "all manner of"
This is a prime example of using a reference like Strongs to make it mean what you want it to.
Strongs G3956 says: every, the whole, [all manner of means] always, anyone, everyone, as many as, thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Really no room for doubt as to the right meaning of Revelation 6:15, it means EVERY person alive on earth will know that what is happening IS the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. The idea it isn't that Day, is the lie.
This is confirmed by Luke 21:34 ....That Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over. The word 'everyone' there is the Greek word 'pantos' G3843, meaning; entirely, by all means, altogether, no doubt, surely.

I ask you to renounce the false teaching of the Sixth Seal not being the Lord's Day of wrath.
 
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Psalm3704

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THAT is twisting what I have pointed out.

No it's not. This was what you wrote in your other post just two days ago. Did you already forget what you wrote? It sounded pretty global to me when I read it. Plus all those verses you pasted are prophecies on a global effect.


1/ LIGHT -The initial light flash arrives from the sun within 8 minutes. 2/ HEAT – Seven times hotter, ambient temperature say, 15c X 7 = could be 120c, 250f

3/ DARKNESS – Caused by ash from volcanic eruptions, plus smoke from forest and city fires.

4/ FIRE – A huge mass of superheated cosmic particles envelopes the earth.

5/ EARTHQUAKES – The electromagnetic microwave effect will cause volcanoes & earthquakes.

6/ EARTH MOVED–The earth’s orbit may be speeded up by this event, resulting in a 360 day year, that will make sense out the time periods given to us in Revelation and Daniel.

7/ COSMC PARTICLES – This CME will hit with a great pressure wave. Previous CME’s have pushed satellites into lower orbits, this one will make them crash back to earth. This cannot refer to real stars, as the nearest one is 4¼ light years away and they are of enormous size.

9/ SKY EFFECTS – The earth magnetosphere and atmosphere are badly affected. This may cause a pole shift and huge storms will encircle the globe.

10/ A GREAT NOISE – The CME strike will be heard all around the earth.

11/ DEATHS WORLDWIDE – Many millions will die, but for those who stay in shelter, it will be survivable, it is only a one day event. More will die from fighting and famine afterward.

12/ THE LAND BURNED – The fireball will make forests and wooden houses catch fire, even concrete buildings mostly have tarred roofs, which will burn, as will tar sealed roads.

13/ CITIES DESERTED – The fires and destruction will drive people out and there will be no power, water or communications, plus no food deliveries, survival must be out in the country.



The following 116 Bible verses describe the literal effects of the Coronal Mass Ejection that the Lord will use to carry out His prophesied Day of vengeance and wrath against His enemies, the godless peoples and nations that attack the State of Israel. It will strike earth at midday: Zephaniah 2:4.


1/ LIGHT -The initial light flash arrives from the sun within 8 minutes.

Isaiah 30:26a The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength. The flash of a CME explosion of unprecedented magnitude, directed toward earth.
Isaiah 30:26a & Rev 6:12b The moon will shine blood red, as brightly as the sun. The thermite reaction of superheated hydrogen and lunar regolith. [dust]
Habakkuk 3:3-4 His brightness is like the dawn, His radiance covers the sky.
Psalms 144:6 Send lightning bolts to scatter Your enemies.
Psalms 18:14 He hurled lightning shafts far and wide.
Ezekiel 21:10 My deadly sword is sharpened, it will flash like lightning for the slaughter.

2/ HEAT – Seven times hotter, ambient temperature say, 15c X 7 = could be 120c, 250f

Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace.
Psalm 18:8 Smoke and fire come from the Lord, with glowing coals and searing heat.
Isaiah 64:1-2 When You tear apart the sky, fires blaze and water boils.
Jeremiah 17:8...when the heat comes, trust in the Lord for protection.
Jeremiah 6:29 The fiery bellows of judgement burn fiercely to refine My people.
Isaiah 25:4 You give refuge to the poor and needy, shelter from the tempest and shade from the heat.

3/ DARKNESS – Caused by ash from volcanic eruptions, plus smoke from forest and city fires.

Isaiah 50:3 I can clothe the sky in darkness, cover it with sackcloth.
Amos 5:20 The Day of the Lord is indeed a Day of deep darkness.
Isaiah 13:10 The sun, moon and stars will give no light.
Ezekiel 32:7-8 I will veil the sky with clouds and bring darkness over the land.
Zephaniah 1:15 The Day of the Lord’s anger will be a Day of destruction, of darkness and gloom.
Amos 8:9 On that Day, the sun will darken at noon.
Revelation 6:12...the sun turned black as a funeral pall and the whole moon blood red.
Psalms 18:11 He made thick darkness His covering, dense vapor His canopy.
Jeremiah 4:23 The earth was in chaos and the sky was in darkness.

4/ FIRE – A huge mass of superheated cosmic particles envelopes the earth.

Isaiah 66:15 The Lord is coming in fire like a whirlwind with the flaming fire of His rebuke.
Luke 3:16 He will baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire, the chaff will burn forever.
Ezekiel 20:47 I am about to light a fire, its fiery flame cannot be put out.
1 Corinthians 3:13...for that Day dawns in fire and fire will test every persons worth.
Psalms 21:9 The anger of the Lord will engulf His enemies in a fiery furnace and consume them.
Hebrews 10:27 For the godless, there is only the terrifying expectation of a fierce fire that will consume God’s enemies.
2 Peter 3:10 On that Day the earth will be enveloped in flames and all that is in it will be brought to judgement.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 ..when the Lord Jesus comes forth with His mighty host in blazing fire, he will punish all the godless and apostate people.
Psalms 97:2-5 Cloud enfolds Him, fire goes ahead and consumes His enemies.
Isaiah 4:4b The Lord will cleanse Jerusalem, with His judgement burning like fire.
Isaiah 33:12 The nations will be burned to ashes, like thorn bushes set on fire.
Ezekiel 30:16 I shall set Egypt on fire. Amos 1:1-15 Syria, Palestine, Lebanon and Jordan burned.

5/ EARTHQUAKES – The electromagnetic microwave effect will cause volcanoes & earthquakes.

Haggai 2:6 In a little while, I shall shake the sky, the earth and break the power of the godless.
Psalms 144:5 Lord, part the sky and come down, touch the mountains, so they pour forth smoke.
Isaiah 24:18-19 ..the windows of the sky above are opened, the earths foundations shake, it is convulsed and reels wildly.
Amos 8:8-9 On that day the earth will quake like ocean waves.
Revelation 6:12-14 There was a violent earthquake...every mountain and island was moved.
Psalms 18:7 The earth shook and quaked, the mountains trembled because of His anger.
Jeremiah 4:24 The mountains were reeling and the hills rocked to and fro.
Habakkuk 3:6 The Lord shakes the earth, the mountains are flattened.

6/ EARTH MOVED–The earth’s orbit may be speeded up by this event, resulting in a 360 day year, that will make sense out the time periods given to us in Revelation and Daniel.

Isaiah 13:13...and the earth will be moved out of her place.

7/ COSMC PARTICLES – This CME will hit with a great pressure wave. Previous CME’s have pushed satellites into lower orbits, this one will make them crash back to earth. This cannot refer to real stars, as the nearest one is 4¼ light years away and they are of enormous size.

Isaiah 28:2 The Lord will beat down violently upon the earth, as a destroying tempest.
Revelation 6:13 The starry host will fall to the earth, like fruit blown of a tree in a gale.
Isaiah 34:4 The host of the heavens will fall like ripe fruit.
Jeremiah 6:25 Do not go outside, for the sword of the Lord spreads terror all around.

8/ ELECTRICAL EFFECTS – The supercharged particles will cause extreme voltage in all the electric power supply systems, telephone wires and pipelines. Transformers and switchgear will be destroyed. Any appliances connected to the grid, even if switched off, will burn out. Most telephone and radio communications will be out of action for a long time. Modern vehicles, aircraft and ships will be inoperable.

9/ SKY EFFECTS – The earth magnetosphere and atmosphere are badly affected. This may cause a pole shift and huge storms will encircle the globe.

Isaiah 13:13 I shall make the heavens shudder...on the day of the Lord’s blazing anger.
Isaiah 51:6 The sky will be dispersed like smoke.
2 Peter 3:10 ...the heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound.
Revelation 6:14 The sky vanished like a scroll being rolled up.
Isaiah 34:4 The sky will crumble into nothing and will be rolled up like a scroll.
Psalms 83:15 Pursue Your enemies with Your tempest, terrify them with Your storm winds.
Jeremiah 30:23See what a scorching wind goes out, it rages down upon the heads of the wicked.
Jeremiah 4:11 & 20 A scorching wind will sweep down upon My people, the whole Land is ruined.

10/ A GREAT NOISE – The CME strike will be heard all around the earth.

Jeremiah 25:30-31 The Lord roars from on high, the great noise reaches the ends of the earth, for He judges the nations and has handed over the wicked for destruction.
Isaiah 29:6 Judgement will come from the Lord with thunder, earthquakes, loud noise and consuming flames of fire.
Jeremiah 51:54-55 The Lord is ready to destroy the godless nations, the advancing wave booms and roars as it despoils them.

11/ DEATHS WORLDWIDE – Many millions will die, but for those who stay in shelter, it will be survivable, it is only a one day event. More will die from fighting and famine afterward.

Deuteronomy 32:41 When I set My hand to judgement, My sword will devour flesh.
Isaiah 28:21-22 The Lord will arise and storm with rage, destruction is decreed upon the earth.
Isaiah 66:16 He will judge with fire, many will be slain by Him.
Isaiah 34:5 For My sword is prepared, it descends in judgement on those doomed for death.
Isaiah 51:6 The sky will be dispersed like smoke and the people will die like flies.
Jeremiah 25:33 Those that the Lord kills on that Day will lie scattered from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned or buried, they will be as dung on the ground.
Isaiah 63:1-6 The Lord comes from the nations, His garments splashed with blood, His Day of vengeance had come and He tramped on them and spilled out their blood.
Psalms 37:20 Evil people will die, they will be incinerated and go up in smoke.
Isaiah 13:12 Humans will become scarce, more rare that fine gold.
Ezekiel 30:1-5 Egypt will suffer anguish...her slain will fall along with all the Arab lands.
Zephaniah 1:3 & 11 I shall destroy humans and animals, I shall bring the godless to their knees. Dire distress will come to sinful peoples, their blood and guts will spill on the ground.
Jeremiah 9:22 Corpses will lie like dung in the fields with no one to gather them.
Ezekiel 21:3 My sword of judgement will kill both the righteous and wicked alike, from the Negev, Northward.
Jeremiah 11:16 Once you were My people, now with a great noise, you will be burned & consumed.
Isaiah 5:25 His anger is roused against His people and as He strikes them down the mountains shake. Their bodies lie like refuse in the streets.
Ezekiel 32:6 I shall drench the land with blood, the villages will be filled with it.

12/ THE LAND BURNED – The fireball will make forests and wooden houses catch fire, even concrete buildings mostly have tarred roofs, which will burn, as will tar sealed roads.

2 Peter 3:12 Look forward to the coming Day of the Lord and work to hasten it on, that Day will set the sky ablaze and will melt the elements in fervent heat.
Isaiah 9:19 The land is scorched and the people are fuel for the fire.
Jeremiah 4:26 The fertile land becomes a wilderness before the fierce anger of the Lord.
Isaiah 42:15 I shall lay waste to all the land and dry up the rivers and lakes.
Ezekiel 15:8 I will make the land a waste because they have broken faith.
Joel 1:11 & 19-20 Despair you farmers for your harvest is lost, the ground is dry and scorched. To You, Lord I cry out for fire has consumed the pastures and trees of the holy Land.
Jeremiah 9:10-12 ......the land is scorched and untrodden, not even birds or beasts remain. Jerusalem and the towns of Judah are ruined and uninhabited. The Land is a dead place, burned and laid waste.
Isaiah 10:18-19 Suddenly, His trees and meadows will be destroyed, what remains will be so few that a child may count them.

13/ CITIES DESERTED – The fires and destruction will drive people out and there will be no power, water or communications, plus no food deliveries, survival must be out in the country.

Isaiah 17:9 On the Day of Retribution, cities will be deserted.
Isaiah 6:11-12 How long, Lord? Until the Land is desolate and cities are deserted, houses vacant.
Jeremiah 4:7 The Destroyer comes, cities will lay waste and empty.
Hosea 8:14 You have forgotten your Maker, I shall send fire to burn your cities.
Micah 5:10-11 On that Day, I will devastate your cities.
Jeremiah 9:21-22 Death has come to our towns, corpses lie like dung in the streets.
Jeremiah 4:26 Your Holy cities are ruined, Jerusalem is burned by fire, all that we treasured has been destroyed.
Isaiah 27:10 The fortified city is left solitary, stripped bare and forsaken like a wilderness.

14/ THE MILITARY DESTROYED – The powerful electromagnetic pulse will disable ships, tanks and aircraft. It will also cause explosive devices to either explode or be neutralized.

Jeremiah 50:22-23 The noise of battle is heard, see how the hammer of the whole world is broken.
Hosea 2:18 ...I shall break the bow and all weapons of war and sweep them off the earth.
Micah 5:5-11 On that Day, I will destroy your military fortifications.
Zephaniah 1:16 A Day of battle cries against the fortified cities and towns.
Isaiah 30:25b On the Day of massacre, when fortresses fall.
Amos 5:9 Destruction will flash forth onto the mighty, against their strongholds.
Jeremiah 50:27 Put all warriors to the sword, lead them to slaughter, for their time has come.

15/ AN UNEXPECTED EVENT – This sudden and shocking event, is not the Return of Jesus, as when the Anti Christ desecrates the new Temple, Jesus will come exactly 1260 days after that.

2 Peter 3:10 The great and terrible Day of the Lord will come like a thief, unexpectedly.
Isaiah 29:5-6 Suddenly, in an instant, your enemies will be punished with earthquakes, storms and flames of devouring fire.
Isaiah 10:17-19 In 1 Day, the Lord will burn up His enemies, sudden as someone falling into a fit.
Jeremiah 6:26...for in an instant the Despoiler will be upon us.

16/ A ONE DAY EVENT – A CME strikes the earth at a speed of 3 to 5 million miles per hour. It causes terrible effects, but then continues on past, leaving us to recover.

Zephaniah 3:8 Wait for the Day when I accuse the nations and pour out My burning anger upon the whole world.
Ezekiel 30:2-3 Alas for the Day, a day is near, the Day of the Lord is near, a Day of reckoning for the nations.
Isaiah 13:9 The Day of the Lord is coming, a cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger.
Joel 1:15 The Day is near, it comes, a mighty destruction from the Lord.
Isaiah 2:20-21 On the Day the Lord will arise and strike the world with terror.
Zechariah 3:9 In a single Day, I will wipe away the guilt of this Land.
Isaiah 63:4-6 I resolved on a Day of vengeance, I shattered nations in My fury.
Joel 2:11 The Lord thunders as He leads the host, great and terrible is the Day, who can endure it.
Zephaniah 2:4-5 Land of the Philistines, at midday, I shall crush you and lay you in ruins, bereft of inhabitants.
Joel 2:30-31 On that great and terrible Day of the Lord, the sky and the earth will show blood, fire and smoke.


17/ HIS PEOPLE – Joel 2:32 Then all who call on the Lord’s Name will be saved. Acts 2:21

Isaiah 30:26 The sun will shine 7 times stronger, on the Day the Lord saves and heals His people
Habakkuk 3:12-13 Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations. You go forth to save Your people.
Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion, the heavens and the earth shudder but He is a refuge for His people and a defense for Israel.
Psalm 68:1-3 God springs into action! His enemies scatter like smoke, as wax melts before a fire, so the godless are destroyed before Him. The righteous are happy and praise God.
Isaiah 43:2 When you pass through rivers, they will not overwhelm you. Walk through fire and flames and not be burned or scorched. I am the Lord, your God and your Deliverer.
1 Peter 1:5 Because you put your faith in God, you are under the protection of His power until the salvation now in readiness is revealed at the end of time.

Reference: Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged.


These are Jesus' Words: No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13

Keras,

He did NOT say no one goes to heaven. (You're specking future tense). He said no one has gone to heaven. (Christ was specking past tense). That's a huge difference and a huge error on your part!

John 3:13 (KJV) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 3:13 (NIV) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

John 3:13 (NKJV) No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

John 3:13 (GNT) And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from heaven."










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Psalm3704

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Note that Matthew 24:31's parallel verse of Mark 13:27 shows that the church will be gathered together from both heaven and earth.

Bible2,

How do you rapture people from heaven as mentioned in both Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27?

In a rapture, people go up. People don't come down during a rapture.















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keras

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No it's not. This was what you wrote in your other post just two days ago. Did you already forget what you wrote? It sounded pretty global to me when I read it. Plus all those verses you pasted are prophecies on a global effect.
You said the world would be destroyed by this CME. I said it would be judged and punished, but most will survive.
Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7 and Zephaniah 3:8 are good examples of what will happen. All the world will be affected, but the main devastation and depopulation will happen in the Middle East region. Ezekiel 30:1-5
He did NOT say no one goes to heaven. (You're specking future tense). He said no one has gone to heaven. (Christ was specking past tense). That's a huge difference and a huge error on your part!
I looked at the scripture analyzer and a case can be made for either way; past, present and future.
However, looking at what God's plans actually are for His human people, a removal to heaven for them is not on His agenda. We are earth people, made for His purposes here, God has angels to serve Him in heaven.
Jesus also prayed for His people, that they be kept from the evil one, NOT taken out of this world. John 17:15
Our task is to be a light to the nations and His witnesses. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 43:10 Get on with that and cease your futile and unscriptural hope of going to heaven; that ain't gonna happen!
I agree with Bible2 on this issue. There will be a gathering in the clouds, earths atmosphere, at Jesus' Return, then we will always be with Him, during His Millennium reign on earth and later in the new Jerusalem on the new earth.
 
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keras said in post 209:

Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7 and Zephaniah 3:8 are good examples of what will happen.

Regarding Isaiah 66:15-16, that refers to Jesus' 2nd coming in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10) and with his sword, and the slain of the Lord shall be many (Revelation 19:11-21).

keras said in post 209:

Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7 and Zephaniah 3:8 are good examples of what will happen.

Regarding 2 Peter 3:7, that refers to the destruction of the heavens and earth at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11 to 21:1), which is when the unsaved of all times will undergo final judgment.

keras said in post 209:

Isaiah 66:15-16, 2 Peter 3:7 and Zephaniah 3:8 are good examples of what will happen.

Regarding Zephaniah 3:8, that could refer to the gathering of the nations to Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21) in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), followed by the millennium in Zephaniah 3:9 (cf. Zechariah 14:16).
 
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keras

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Regarding Isaiah 66:15-16, that refers to Jesus' 2nd coming in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10) and with his sword, and the slain of the Lord shall be many (Revelation 19:11-21).
It is just your opinion that the Return of Jesus is also His judgement Day by fire. An opinion not supported by the three prophesies that describe the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Zechariah 14:3-11, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:11-21 None of these say the Lord will come with fire on that Day.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 is very evidently another description of the Lord's Day of wrath, as He is only revealed to His own on that Day.
The context of 2 Peter 3:1-10 is all to do with the next event, the Day the godless will be destroyed by burning. Only after verse 11, does Peter prophesy about the new heaven and earth.

The great and terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, an event years before the glorious Return, is clearly told to us as happening at the Sixth Seal. Any other interpretation of that sudden and shocking worldwide disaster is false.
There will be more of the wrath of God to come, as He punishes those who follow the Anti-Christ, to be completed after the 7 Bowls are over, Revelation 15:1.
 
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Psalm3704

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You said the world would be destroyed by this CME. I said it would be judged and punished, but most will survive.

No. I'm quoting what you said. And here you said it again on Sunday, post#128 in another link. In that post also you said nothing about the world being judged and punished either. Here's what you said:

"I know the Sixth Seal very well, it will be the next prophesied event, that will reset our civilization.
It is described in over 100 other prophesies as a worldwide disaster of fire from the sun, causing terrible earthquakes, storms, tsunamis and destroying all our modern infrastructure."

I know the Sixth Seal very well, it will be the next prophesied event, that will reset our civilization.
It is described in over 100 other prophesies as a worldwide disaster of fire from the sun, causing terrible earthquakes, storms, tsunamis and destroying all our modern infrastructure.

You've been caught more than once with your hand in the cookie jar. You're just denying it even when your finger prints are there.

I looked at the scripture analyzer and a case can be made for either way; past, present and future.

If your ability to decipher the analyzer was anything similar to how you comprehended John 3:13, I doubt you knew what it meant. All the translations convey the same message, "no one has ever gone to heaven." All past tense.

Do you even know why John wrote this at all?
http://www.biblestudytools.com/john/3-13-compare.html

I agree with Bible2 on this issue. There will be a gathering in the clouds, earths atmosphere, at Jesus' Return, then we will always be with Him, during His Millennium reign on earth and later in the new Jerusalem on the new earth.

The reality is, you disagree with him about a lot more other prophecies than you agree with him. Just read the last several pages for yourself and see. As well as with many other people too. Just read the other threads.














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keras

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No. I'm quoting what you said. And here you said it again on Sunday, post#128 in another link. In that post also you said nothing about the world being judged and punished either.
Nowhere have I said the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, is the end of the world. As Isaiah 66:15-16 says: many will die, but not all by any means. The world will carry and recover, most to form a One World Govt. All the Lord's righteous believers will form the new nation of Beulah in the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5
If your ability to decipher the analyzer was anything similar to how you comprehended John 3:13, I doubt you knew what it meant. All the translations convey the same message, "no one has ever gone to heaven." All past tense.
Your desperate attempts to justify a rapture removal to heaven, out of the testing times ahead, in no way prove such a thing will happen. Even if what Jesus said in John 3:13 pertained only to the past, why should God allow people to come and live in heaven now? He allowed Steven to be killed, plus the millions of martyrs since and those still today being killed for their faith. The very idea of God changing His mind is an anathema, a scriptural impossibility. Malachi 3:6a, Hebrews 13:8
The pre-trib rapture theory is a Satanic deception, proved by how nasty and un-Christian those who are deceived by it get, when their beliefs are challenged with the truth.
 
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keras said in post 212:

Zechariah 14:3-11, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:11-21 None of these say the Lord will come with fire on that Day.

Note that they don't have to, because 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 does.

Similarly, nothing in Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:11-21, or 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 says that the Lord will set his feet on the Mount of Olives on that day. But they don't have to, because Zechariah 14:4 does.

keras said in post 212:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 is very evidently another description of the Lord's Day of wrath, as He is only revealed to His own on that Day.

Note that nothing in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 says or requires that Jesus will be revealed only to his own on that day.

For 2 Thessalonians 1:7 refers to when "the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven", which is only at his 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30).

And 2 Thessalonians 1:7 refers to when "the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels", which is only at his 2nd coming (Matthew 25:31, Matthew 24:31, Mark 8:38, Luke 9:26).

And 2 Thessalonians 1:9 refers to the future presence of the Lord in glory and power, which is only at his 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30).

And 2 Thessalonians 1:10 refers to when Jesus "shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe", which is only at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

*******

keras said in post 214:

All the Lord's righteous believers will form the new nation of Beulah in the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5

Isaiah 62:1-5 refers to the future time of the millennium (Micah 4:1-8, Isaiah 2:1-3).
 
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Nowhere have I said the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, is the end of the world.

Nobody said you said the 6th seal is the end of the world. Your problem is your inability to understand the things you read. That also includes the things you've written also as nothing below mentions the end of the world.

"I know the Sixth Seal very well, it will be the next prophesied event, that will reset our civilization.
It is described in over 100 other prophesies as a worldwide disaster of fire from the sun, causing terrible earthquakes, storms, tsunamis and destroying all our modern infrastructure."

I know the Sixth Seal very well, it will be the next prophesied event, that will reset our civilization.
It is described in over 100 other prophesies as a worldwide disaster of fire from the sun, causing terrible earthquakes, storms, tsunamis and destroying all our modern infrastructure.

******************************************************************

As Isaiah 66:15-16 says: many will die, but not all by any means. The world will carry and recover, most to form a One World Govt. All the Lord's righteous believers will form the new nation of Beulah in the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5

:doh::doh::doh:

Isaiah 66:15-16 doesn't happen at the 6th seal. The next prophetic event is not Christ coming to earth to destroy His enemies. He comes in the second half of the tribulation near the end at armageddon. It's either more comprehension problem or your eschatology is all out of wack.

Isaiah 66:15-16 Good News Translation (GNT)
15 The Lord will come with fire. He will ride on the wings of a storm to punish those he is angry with. 16 By fire and sword he will punish all the people of the world whom he finds guilty—and many will be put to death.

Your desperate attempts to justify a rapture removal to heaven, out of the testing times ahead, in no way prove such a thing will happen. Even if what Jesus said in John 3:13 pertained only to the past, why should God allow people to come and live in heaven now? He allowed Steven to be killed, plus the millions of martyrs since and those still today being killed for their faith. The very idea of God changing His mind is an anathema, a scriptural impossibility. Malachi 3:6a, Hebrews 13:8
The pre-trib rapture theory is a Satanic deception, proved by how nasty and un-Christian those who are deceived by it get, when their beliefs are challenged with the truth.

John 3:13 is not about the rapture, absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not about Stephen's death or God changing His mind either. Read what John 3:13 said, it's about going to heaven and Who came from heaven. There got to be at least translation below you can understand. Your numerous attempts to change the subject only reveals a desperation attempt at strawman. Keras, if you wanna argue about the rapture, go make a new thread. If you want to debate about the 6th seal or a CME, go make a new thread.






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keras

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Isaiah 62:1-5 refers to the future time of the millennium
All of your refutations ignore the clear sequence of events in Revelation. The Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event, followed by the gathering of the Lord's people into the holy Land as described in Revelation 7:9.
I could post dozens of prophesies proving this, but Ezekiel 36 is one of the best:
Ezekiel 36:4-38
This is what the Lord says about the Land of Israel: Israel, you were trampled down when you were occupied by other nations. I will speak to the Land, now plundered and despised by the surrounding nations.
In My burning zeal, I have spoken out against the rest of the nations, especially Edom, for with glee and malice they seized My Land as spoil. Therefore, because Israel has suffered the scorn of the nations, I swear that those nations will in turn suffer scorn.


But you, Land of Israel, bring forth your branches and yield your fruit for My people,[all true Christian believers], for their homecoming is near. See how I will look on you with favour, you will be fruitful. I shall settle on you many people - the whole 12 tribes of Israel, [plus those grafted in] the towns inhabited and the Land prosperous. My people, will live there again, never again to leave. No longer will they suffer the scorn of foreigners.
When ancient Israel and Judah were living in the Land, they defiled it by their idolatry. I sentenced them to exile around the world. But I have concern for My Holy Name, so you Israelites, it is not for your sake that I am acting – I shall show My Holiness through you and all the nations will know that I am the Lord.


I shall take you out of the world, gather you from every land and bring you back to your homeland. I will purify you of everything that defiles you. You will have a new heart and I will put My spirit within you and you will desire to only follow My Laws.
Then you will live in the Land that I had given to your forefathers. You will be My people and I will be your God. Having saved you from all that defiles you, I shall command the Land to be plentiful, trees will bear abundant fruit and the soil will produce heavy crops. Never again will you suffer famine.


You will recall your wicked conduct and evil deeds and will hate yourself for them. Feel the shame and disgrace of your old ways, people of Israel.
The Lord says: when I have cleansed you of all your wrongdoings, you will settle in the Land and the ruined places will be rebuilt. The Land will be ploughed and sown, no longer a devastation,
[after the Sixth Seal event] rain will come in due season.
The nations still left around you will know that it is I, the Lord who has done this. Jesus is not present as yet.

The Lord says; once again, I will let the Israelites pray to Me for help. They will become many, as flocks of sheep in the Land. As Jerusalem has flocks of sheep at festival time, so will the towns of Israel be filled with flocks of people.
Then they will know that I am their God. Ref: REB verses abridged.

The prophet Ezekiel, who was commissioned to prophesy specifically to the House of Israel: Ezekiel 2:3, wrote chapter 36, giving the story of how God will, in His burning zeal, clear the evil neighbours, Jeremiah 12: 14] out of all the holy Land. Then, His people, righteous Israelites, will gather and resettle in the Land. They will receive God’s Spirit and will live in the Land with great prosperity. This is in order for them to be a light to the nations and to prepare for the Return of Jesus.
 
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Isaiah 66:15-16 doesn't happen at the 6th seal. The next prophetic event is not Christ coming to earth to destroy His enemies. He comes in the second half of the tribulation near the end at armageddon.
This is just opinion and conflicts with the prophesies. The forthcoming terrible fire judgement prophesied in Isaiah 66:15-17,
causing the cosmic effects of the Sixth Seal and in over 70 other Bible verses, will be a sunstrike instigated by the Lord. He is not seen on that Day. Psalms 11:4-6, Romans 1:18
His visible Return is years later, at Armageddon, as you say.
John 3:13 is not about the rapture, absolutely nothing to do with it
On the contrary, Jesus' Words have everything to do with the fact that living people never go to heaven. Confirmed by John 17:15, Psalms 115:16
As I post in #217, our destiny is to be His witnesses and the light to the nations, This will be our glory, our fulfilment!
 
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This is just opinion and conflicts with the prophesies. The forthcoming terrible fire judgement prophesied in Isaiah 66:15-17,
causing the cosmic effects of the Sixth Seal and in over 70 other Bible verses, will be a sunstrike instigated by the Lord. He is not seen on that Day. Psalms 11:4-6, Romans 1:18
His visible Return is years later, at Armageddon, as you say.

Keras, you're completely out of your mind. Jesus does not come to judge the world twice. Nothing in the bible even hint at that but numerous scriptures in the OT and NT points to Christ coming in judgment near the end of the tribulation ONLY. Isaiah 66:15-17 has nothing about Him coming at the 6th seal. You're eschatology is flat out wrong.

Isaiah 66:15-17 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.

17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

On the contrary, Jesus' Words have everything to do with the fact that living people never go to heaven. Confirmed by John 17:15, Psalms 115:16
As I post in #217, our destiny is to be His witnesses and the light to the nations, This will be our glory, our fulfilment!

Keras, you're doing more of what you've been doing: pulling scriptures out of context, twisting and fabricating verses to promote your own theology that denies the teachings of the bible.

Read the entire chapter of John 17, (including the titles). From verse 1-5, He prays for Himself. From verse 6-19, He prays for His disciples. Read verse 19. It even said He prays for them but not the world. (NOT THE WORLD, KERAS!!!!!) This has nothing to do with the rapture. This is a prayer of protection for His disciples because they are no longer followers of this world and satan will be after them. The bible is telling us Jesus prayed that ONLY His disciples ( NOT THE WORLD) not be taken out of the world. Don't you understand bible basics and the gospel? You need to put on the whole armor of God. What you're preaching and promoting is definitely not biblical truth nor is it from God.

Keras, for your sake, I would try very hard to understand what Jesus meant from verse 17-19. He spoke about those truly belonging to Him being sanctified by the truth. Not all Christians are Disciples but all Disciples are Christians. The truth is what sets you free from satan's deceptions. All disciples are true followers of Christ and know the truth.

And He finally prays for other believers from verse 20 on. He said He prays not for them alone (His disciples) but for others who believe in Him (Christians).

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+17&version=NKJV

John 17 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus Prays for Himself

17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said:“Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

And lastly, we're not talking about the rapture. Stop trying to change the subject from John 3:13. John 3:13 is past tense, the rapture is future tense.








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Jesus does not come to judge the world twice. Nothing in the bible even hint at that but numerous scriptures in the OT and NT points to Christ coming in judgment near the end of the tribulation ONLY. Isaiah 66:15-17 has nothing about Him coming at the 6th seal.
He judged the world in Noah's time. And now the world is again: as in the days of Noah.
You show your lack of knowledge of all the prophesies about the forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, a Day described quite differently from the Day of Jesus' visible Return.
The cosmic effects of the sixth Seal are mentioned in many other prophesies:
Isaiah 30:26-28 & 30 The sun will shine with 7 times its normal strength... on the Day the Lord sieves out the nations for destruction. His arm will descend in fierce anger, with devouring flames of fire....
Isaiah 34:1-8...The Lords anger is against all the nations...My Sword of destruction appears in the heavens and descends in judgement upon the peoples doomed for destruction. The sky will roll up like a scroll.....
Isaiah 51:6 The sky will be dispersed like smoke.....
2 Peter 3:10 The heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound....
Joel 2:31 The sun will become dark and the moon red as blood.....
Acts 2:19-20 ...signs in the sky and on earth, blood, fire and smoke....the moon will turn red as blood....
None of these prophesies, plus many others, happen at the Return. As is clear to anyone who studies the Bible prophesies, this terrible fire judgement, of a similar magnitude as the Flood, is nothing to do with the Return in glory of Jesus for His Millennial reign. All He does at the Return, is to destroy the army attacking Jerusalem. Why burn the earth and devastate the holy Land at that time?

Re a rapture to heaven. When I see a verse that clearly states that is God's intention, then I will believe it. Until then, I believe all the prophesies telling us how the Lord's people will live in peace and prosperity in the holy Land.
 
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