LDS Why is Adam's sin in the garden seen as good by Mormons

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Marvin Knox

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I have to disagree with you here because understanding why our Father in Heaven created us and this earth helps us to understand the need for the atonement. Understanding the need for the atonement makes it easier to bow the knee to Christ and ask for his grace.

Humanism is the tool of Satan and the Lord foresaw that in this day man would no long bow to dumb idols but to this new tool of atheism and the worship of man's own knowledge. He knew we would need new prophets with a greater understanding and light to show us the way back home to him. It's fine for you to have your faith but there are others who struggle with why, why did God put that tree in the garden? Why does God allow evil? Your theology does not have answers for those questions at lest not any which satisfies a thoughtful mind.
I am very much interested in these things. My theology does have answers for those questions.

Once a person has crossed over from the works oriented salvation of Mormonism and into the light of the true gospel - I can and do discuss the so called "deeper" doctrines of scripture.

Until that time I am simply wasting my time in arguing minute theological points with a person who is quite likely still spiritually dead.
He knew we would need new prophets with a greater understanding and light to show us the way back home to him.
The scriptures that we have from the prophets that God provided for us is all we "need" for understanding the important things concerning salvation.

The problem is that the teaching of "additional" prophets (from Muhammad to Joseph Smith) have simply obscured the simple gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
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withwonderingawe

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.....the witness of the Holy Spirit does not serve to provide a "burning in the bosom" but a mere knowing of the truth of His testimony, in the same order of knowledge that I know I was born. That is to say, the Holy Spirit's witness renders the belief in His testimony concerning Christ to be properly basic (i.e. rationally self-evident).

Exodus 35:21
21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing...

Psalms 77:6
6 I call to remembrance my song in the night: I commune with mine own heart: and my spirit made diligent search.

Luke 24:32
"And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?"

Act 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

2 Corinthians 1:
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Galatians 4:
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

There is a faith which goes "beyond self-evident(s)" which the witness of the Holy Spirit gives.
 
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withwonderingawe

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I am very much interested in these things. My theology does have answers for those questions.

Once a person has crossed over from the works oriented salvation of Mormonism and into the light of the true gospel - I can and do discuss the so called "deeper" doctrines of scripture.

Until that time I am simply wasting my time in arguing minute theological points with a person who is quite likely still spiritually dead.

The scriptures that we have from the prophets that God provided for us is all we "need" for understanding the important things concerning salvation.

The problem is that the teaching of "additional" prophets (from Muhammad to Joseph Smith) have simply obscured the simple gospel of Jesus Christ.

Explain please using the Bible why God put that Tree of Knowledge in the Garden? Why did he allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve? Remember use scripture, not your own surmising.
 
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withwonderingawe

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You can do nothing for yourself with regard to salvation in it's basic sense.

Understanding the fall helps put this into perspective.


John 15:10
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

You can claim all the faith and grace you want but unless you keep his commandments you can not abide in his love.

But you are right there is nothing we could do to save ourselves from our lost and fallen state. There was now way for us to breach the gulf of death both physical and spiritual without the atonement made by an infinite God.

2Nephi 9
"7 Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement—save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption. Wherefore, the first judgment which came upon man must needs have remained to an endless duration. And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more.

8 O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace! For behold, if the flesh should rise no more our spirits must become subject to that angel who fell from before the presence of the Eternal God, and became the devil, to rise no more.

9 And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; ....

10 O how great the goodness of our God, who prepareth a way for our escape from the grasp of this awful monster; yea, that monster, death and hell, which I call the death of the body, and also the death of the spirit....

20 O how great the holiness of our God! For he knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows it.

21 And he cometh into the world that he may save all men if they will hearken unto his voice; for behold, he suffereth the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam.
 
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mmksparbud

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Explain please using the Bible why God put that Tree of Knowledge in the Garden? Why did he allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve? Remember use scripture, not your own surmising.


Well---you claim to have the answers---so, using scripture, not your own surmising---why did He put the tree in the garden and allow Satan to tempt Eve??
 
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withwonderingawe

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Well---you claim to have the answers---so, using scripture, not your own surmising---why did He put the tree in the garden and allow Satan to tempt Eve??

Ah but I have the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenant and modern prophets and that's the point!

Ya have to start with Knox's statement "The scriptures that we have (Bible) from the prophets that God provided for us is all we "need" for understanding the important things concerning salvation"

Really ? Then why do so many choose not to believe? Why do so many look at the Bible and ask 'What do ya mean someone else had to suffer for my sins?

Just as Jesus opened up the scriptures to those men who walked with him on the road to Emmaus modern Prophets sent by our Heavenly Father have reopened up those scriptures and added further light and knowledge.
 
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mmksparbud

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You have nothing. That is why so many choose not to believe in your JS and his writings. Jesus opened up those scriptures---He did not change them or add to them, He just showed them they were referring to Him. And He did not need a seer stone in a hat to do it. We have all we need for salvation---endless, needless surmising and speculation of what is not needed for salvation is superfluous, and adding to that things that have nothing to do with that salvation is distortion of the word of God. God's true prophets do not change the word of God, their light does not distort or make up stuff that contradicts the bible. God's true prophets do not call God a liar by saying that God did not create Adam and Eve and they became a living soul, but that they say they were already alive as the spirit children of God and a Mother Goddess, they do not call Him a liar by saying He did not create everything, but that there are other Gods on other worlds who created those worlds, they do not call Lucifer the brother to Jesus because they know Jesus created Lucifer to begin with as Jesus created ALL things, they do not say that God was human before becoming God because God says He is from everlasting to everlasting and there is no other God but Him.


No--let's not start with Knox--let's start where he got it from.

Heb_7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Jas_1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

2Ti_3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


JS does not save---Jesus does.
 
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Strong in Him

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You look at be eternities differently. We believe that we have always existed. Not as we are now or when we were spirits. That we existed as a entity that is more fine matter than spirit matter. Since God is perfect and anything he does is perfect he created spirit bodies for the more fine matter which we call intelligence. These bodies were perfect and would never be destroyed or die. As spirits we literally lived in the presence of God. While there we gained knowledge and progressed to become more than what we were. There were many things that we. Ould not learn as a spirit. We did not know what it was like to cut off from the presence of God so we could develop faith in him. We also had a desired to be more like our Heavenly Father. As spirits we could see that the Father was different from us. He had a perfected physical body. We desired to be like him because as spirits there were other things we could not understand. One was to feel physical pain. But we also did not understand what joy was either. We didn't know what sick was or understand what healthy was. We couldn't be married as spirits either. These are all part of mortality that can help us progress to the eternities. So because of his love for us Heavenly Father allowed his first spirit creation jehovah to created a earth for us to dwell on. He had help in the creation and one was named micheal or as we came to know him on earth as Adam. So the whole purpose for us to come to earth was a eternal perspective. It was for us to continue to progress until we become perfected. By becoming perfect we become like the Father.
When Adam and Eve were born on earth they were placed under in the garden of Eden. They now had physical bodies that were perfect and would not die. They would have lived there forever. It was a beautiful place and there was no violence hate or death there. They could eat the food there which required no effort on their part to grow. It was just there for them to eat when they wanted to. Sounds good doesn't it? The problem is that perfection needs more than just a perfect body. One has to have knowledge of good and evil. God did place a tree in the garden that bore fruit that represented the knowledge of good and evil. When God placed Adam and Eve in the garden he gave them two commandments. The first was to multiply and replenish the earth. The other was to not eat of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve as I have said had immortal bodies but they had knowledge of a little child. They did not have knowledge of good and evil. They were not stupid but had their former memory blocked. When lucifer came and tried to destroy Gods plan Adam and Eve had little knowledge about anything. So when Satan tempted them they succumbed to it. Now many mainstream Christian place Adam and Eve in a negative mood because they did fall. They don't understand that this life is just a continuation of a life of eternal progression. Because of this I have always wondered how God could promise us eternal life if we had a beginning. I know others have tried to answer this but still strikes me funny.
Anyway God had his plan. It was not to have Adam and Eve live in the garden forever. Nothing would have been learned that needed to be learned.
As is said earlier that God is perfect and his creations are perfect. Adams body was perfect and would never die. His intelligence that was placed in his spirit body was not create but had always existed. Again the bodies of Adam and Eve were immortal. They would have remained in the garden not knowing good from evil. In order to learn these things God perfect plan was for man to become mortal. When God gave them the commandments there were consequences to disobedience. It was they would die. Since death had not yet entered into the world death meant little to Adam and Eve. Being innocent as little children they partook of the fruit. This plunged the world into mortality and made Adam and Eve susceptible to death. This was not the wrong thing to do but was Gods plan for our progression and growth. Because of their disobedience sin was brought into the world. Although Adam and Eve did not have enough knowledge to sin it was still disobedience and the consequences are the same.

I'm sure it's what you believe, and you are entitled to your beliefs.
If you are saying that this is what ....... teaches, that is one thing; they are clearly just his view/belief. If you were saying that this is what Scripture teaches, you'd be wrong.

You contradict yourself by your last statement, "because of their disobedience sin was brought into the world." That's exactly right - Adam and Eve disobeyed God. You say that they disobeyed God but did not have the knowledge to sin; disobedience is sin. They KNEW what God had said not to do, but they did it anyway. As soon as they disobeyed him, that was the first sin.
 
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revanneosl

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It is really disturbing to me that this thread has gone on for three pages without anyone pointing out that the idea of The Fall being a good thing is not confined to LDS theology, but is, in fact, a tenet of the very most orthodox schools of Christian theology, beginning with St. Augustine.

His reasoning went like this:
  • Since God is wonderful, God's creation must be as close to wonderful as can be managed.
  • A world in which evil had never existed would be pretty wonderful, but
  • A world in which good triumphs over evil is even more wonderful
  • Therefore, The Fall is a wonderful thing, since it allows for Christ's redemption of the world
In fact, we more liturgical Christians sing about it every Easter Sunday, "O Happy Fault, O necessary sin of Adam, that won for us so great a Savior."
 
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withwonderingawe

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You have nothing. That is why so many choose not to believe in your JS and his writings. Jesus opened up those scriptures---He did not change them or add to them, He just showed them they were referring to Him. And He did not need a seer stone in a hat to do it. We have all we need for salvation---endless, needless surmising and speculation of what is not needed for salvation is superfluous, and adding to that things that have nothing to do with that salvation is distortion of the word of God. God's true prophets do not change the word of God, their light does not distort or make up stuff that contradicts the bible. God's true prophets do not call God a liar by saying that God did not create Adam and Eve and they became a living soul, but that they say they were already alive as the spirit children of God and a Mother Goddess, they do not call Him a liar by saying He did not create everything, but that there are other Gods on other worlds who created those worlds, they do not call Lucifer the brother to Jesus because they know Jesus created Lucifer to begin with as Jesus created ALL things, they do not say that God was human before becoming God because God says He is from everlasting to everlasting and there is no other God but Him.


No--let's not start with Knox--let's start where he got it from.

Heb_7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Jas_1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

2Ti_3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


JS does not save---Jesus does.

I know Joseph Smith does not save no body ever claimed that he did BUT why does salvation come by no other name than Jesus. Why does faith in Jesus save you?
 
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fatboys

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I'm sure it's what you believe, and you are entitled to your beliefs.
If you are saying that this is what ....... teaches, that is one thing; they are clearly just his view/belief. If you were saying that this is what Scripture teaches, you'd be wrong.

You contradict yourself by your last statement, "because of their disobedience sin was brought into the world." That's exactly right - Adam and Eve disobeyed God. You say that they disobeyed God but did not have the knowledge to sin; disobedience is sin. They KNEW what God had said not to do, but they did it anyway. As soon as they disobeyed him, that was the first sin.
I can see why you would see it that way. We believe that not all disobedience is sin. We believe that a person has to understand what the consequences for their disobedience is before it is called a sin. Example is that little children cannot sin until they come to the age of accountability. Usually around the age of eight. Doesn't mean they can't disobey but the atonement automaticly pays for it without having to go through repentance. The consequences are the same as if they did have the knowledge and understanding. We believe that Adam and Eve were innocent from knowledge of understand the commandments God gave them because they had no knowledge of good or evil. Disobedience did take place and the result became known as the fall of not just man but the whole world. So sin came into the world by disobedience. Adam and Eve were now susceptible to death. Because of this their posterity would become susceptible to death. Imperfection or disinigration was passed on through Adam and Eve's choices.
 
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JLB777

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In contrast with Christian notion that the fall resulted in a condition of human depravity, the Mormon view asserts that the fall was a necessary condition for man to realize his ultimate potential....

to the Mormon the fall is a fall upward rather than downward.... Rather than the view of Christian's where Adam is conceived as the cause of human suffering, ...

Mormonism holds Adam in very high esteem....

Within Mormon angelology Adam is Michael the Archangel, the Ancient of Days. He assisted in the creation process and will assist in the resurrecting of the dead. He holds positions of importance next to the members of the Godhead. Indeed, Adam was so highly regarded within early Mormonism that Brigham Young elevated him to the status of God ("The Social Psychological Basis of Mormon New-Orthodoxy," Master's thesis, by Owen Kendall White, Jr., University of Utah, June 1967, pp. 101-4).


This is a quote from Brigham Young's (former Mormon President and Prophet) April 9, 1852


"Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken—He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later ... the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 50-51).


Wow!

Thanks for posting this! I have never studied Mormonism.

This is shocking!


JLB
 
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ToBeLoved

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If they are dead and we are wrong what on earth difference does it make to them? The only difference it makes is you.
How do you know what that ceremony is doing? We are talking about the spiritual realm. Your teachers even say it is so "what is bound on earth is also bound in heaven"

Matthew18:18

18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Matthew 16:18-19
18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

This is a very high level spiritual thing. It is not just playtime.
 
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JLB777

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I know Joseph Smith does not save no body ever claimed that he did BUT why does salvation come by no other name than Jesus. Why does faith in Jesus save you?


He alone purchased your salvation by His blood on the cross.

He paid for your sins, and was punished for your sins.


He is God's only begotten Son, who became flesh, and died on the cross for your sins.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:1-5


Jesus Christ is the only Begotten Son of God.

Angels were created by Him, as Jesus created all things.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17


For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.


and again


5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”?
Hebrews 1:5


again


8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10


Jesus Christ is the Son of God, as is Himself God.


Michael the archangel is an angel, and was created by the Lord Jesus.



JLB





 
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withwonderingawe

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It is really disturbing to me that this thread has gone on for three pages without anyone pointing out that the idea of The Fall being a good thing is not confined to LDS theology, but is, in fact, a tenet of the very most orthodox schools of Christian theology, beginning with St. Augustine.

His reasoning went like this:
  • Since God is wonderful, God's creation must be as close to wonderful as can be managed.
  • A world in which evil had never existed would be pretty wonderful, but
  • A world in which good triumphs over evil is even more wonderful
  • Therefore, The Fall is a wonderful thing, since it allows for Christ's redemption of the world
In fact, we more liturgical Christians sing about it every Easter Sunday, "O Happy Fault, O necessary sin of Adam, that won for us so great a Savior."

As a Mormon I have a wealth of scriptures and prophets to draw from so that I can understand why the fall.

In Gen 1God made a purpose statement

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion …..So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

In Gen 3 Yahweh says at less part of the plan has come to pass

'And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..'

1 God must not exist in a state of eternal bless because he knows evil, I didn’t say he does evil but he knows what it is. He has seen how awful evil can be. He knows what sorrow it can bring.

2 In order for us to be made in his perfect image we to had to understand evil too.

The Book of Mormon helps explain why God but those two different trees in the Garden and it’s almost what you have said;

1 Nephi 2
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.

15 And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.

16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.

Now I’m turning to a talk give by Elder L. Lionel Kendrick, one of our Seventy

Moral agency is an inherent part of our existence. The Lord revealed to Joseph Smith: “Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
“All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.”

And from D&C 101
78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.

And back to the Book of Mormon 2Nephi 2
26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.

27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.

28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit;

Now my own summery. If man had not been give the knowledge of good and evil then we could not have been made in God’s image and God’s eternal purpose would have been for not. We needed to taste the bitter to comprehend the sweet, thus we have moral agency to act. We can choose between Jesus the mediator or Satan and the death he brings. Adam choosing to partake of the Tree of Knowledge brought about God’s eternal plan, that was a good thing.
 
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ToBeLoved

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As a Mormon I have a wealth of scriptures and prophets to draw from so that I can understand why the fall.

In Gen 1God made a purpose statement

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion …..So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

In Gen 3 Yahweh says at less part of the plan has come to pass

'And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..'

1 God must not exist in a state of eternal bless because he knows evil, I didn’t say he does evil but he knows what it is. He has seen how awful evil can be. He knows what sorrow it can bring.

2 In order for us to be made in his perfect image we to had to understand evil too.

The Book of Mormon helps explain why God but those two different trees in the Garden and it’s almost what you have said;

1 Nephi 2
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.

15 And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.

16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.

Now I’m turning to a talk give by Elder L. Lionel Kendrick, one of our Seventy

Moral agency is an inherent part of our existence. The Lord revealed to Joseph Smith: “Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
“All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.”

And from D&C 101
78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.

And back to the Book of Mormon 2Nephi 2
26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.

27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.

28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit;

Now my own summery. If man had not been give the knowledge of good and evil then we could not have been made in God’s image and God’s eternal purpose would have been for not. We needed to taste the bitter to comprehend the sweet, thus we have moral agency to act. We can choose between Jesus the mediator or Satan and the death he brings. Adam choosing to partake of the Tree of Knowledge brought about God’s eternal plan, that was a good thing.
The issue is that the Bible cannon is closed. No further revelation needed.

The prophets that have written your holy books we were warned of, those who would come along and change the gospel.

Matthew 7:15-16
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.


So, I'm sorry we have been warned about 'new revelations' and false prophets.
 
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fatboys

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The issue is that the Bible cannon is closed. No further revelation needed.

The prophets that have written your holy books we were warned of, those who would come along and change the gospel.

Matthew 7:15-16
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?"

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.


So, I'm sorry we have been warned about 'new revelations' and false prophets.
Tell God he can't reveal anymore of his word
 
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withwonderingawe

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He alone purchased your salvation by His blood on the cross.

He paid for your sins, and was punished for your sins.


He is God's only begotten Son, who became flesh, and died on the cross for your sins.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:1-5


Jesus Christ is the only Begotten Son of God.

Angels were created by Him, as Jesus created all things.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17


For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.


and again


5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”?
Hebrews 1:5


again


8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10


Jesus Christ is the Son of God, as is Himself God.

I'm not arguing that Jesus doesn't save, salvation only comes through him that is an eternal truth;

But what makes his blood so special? Why couldn't God just line us up and say you, you and you I like you so you're saved but you and you off to hell with you. Why the need to shed blood?
 
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