Why did Jesus have to die?

com7fy8

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A God with limitations is not God.
He did not limit Himself from coming to this earth, as a Human.

And while Jesus was in a human body, He was not limited from defeating Satan and death and all evil while Jesus was the One on the cross. Now, in His resurrection, Jesus still has those wounds, but they do not have any effect. So, Jesus is not limited by those wounds.

And on the cross, Jesus had hope for any and all people; He was not limited in His hope > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

So, indeed, God is not limited the way people of this world are limited.

But He is limited, in that He "cannot be tempted by evil" > in James 1:13.
 
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Noxot

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yes God is limited to God but if God is a creature then God is a creature. this is in part how we derive that the second person of the Trinity is both fully God and fully human ( in the absolute sense). the second person is a polarized unity. humanity is not cut off from God and God is not cut off from humanity.

to think of God in terms of power is kind of more in line with the way satan thinks of reality. kings of the world think they rule because they have various forms of power. nature is a reality where certain things are required in order to stay alive and creatures derive a sense of power by such. the kingdom of heaven is freedom in God and the kingdom of nature is necessity and compulsion.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Sin isn't the cause of physical death. Sin causes the spiritual death. Being mortal causes the physical death.
Adam was direct of God, if he remained in grace and never sinned, how long do you think he would have lived?

Death came through sin, remember the words of the apostle Paul. Through one man death reigned. Jesus is the second Adam, who gives life.

Death is a spirit, not merely entropy.

This makes us go back to how to interpret Genesis. Bearing in mind fossils... There is theistic evolution, but then there is also a passage in which God breathes life into Adam personally, and later creates from him a female. To this comes the problem that, chimps and orangutans share 95% or more DNA in common with us.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Cannot God choose to Self-limit Himself?
Philippians 2 reads that Jesus emptied Himself of use of His equality with God. Like a sleep. Jesus surpassed all His tests like a humble person.
 
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Noxot

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the manner in which our universe is how it is due to a fall in a higher spiritual plane of existence. what the universe was like before adams falling to sleep is a mystery as this universe is like a crack in eternity in the dynamic and eternal process of Gods kingdom of souls. in some ways the universe is like a shadow of what it is in eternity but the nature of God is such that all things are ever unfolding in a play of love and thus this universe falls but is again resurrected.

Rom 8:19-24 (YLT)
for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; for to vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it --in hope, that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God; for we have known that all the creation doth groan together, and doth travail in pain together till now. And not only so , but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting--the redemption of our body; for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for it ?
 
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Steeno7

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Philippians 2 reads that Jesus emptied Himself of use of His equality with God. Like a sleep. Jesus surpassed all His tests like a humble person.

I would interpret that to mean that He set aside His prerogative to function as who He is, God, in order to limit Himself to function as a man.
 
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com7fy8

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the second person is a polarized unity. humanity is not cut off from God and God is not cut off from humanity.
Jesus came in order to reach us and personally share with us, because He is a Person of God who so loves us. Also, He did this in order to obey and please our Heavenly Father. This shows how unconceited God is. Jesus left Heaven itself, in order to come here for us. And Jesus died in order to reach us in our sin and bring us to God.

Would we leave our little heavens which we have made for ourselves, in order to reach and care for and share with any person, at all, like Jesus has done? Jesus came and died for us, because He has hope for any evil person, at all. So, He had to die for us, because He does have hope for us > love "hope all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).

to think of God in terms of power is kind of more in line with the way satan thinks of reality.
There is religious culture which makes a point only of talking about how God knows all, is all-powerful, and is present everywhere . . . oh yes, and all-seeing and all-recording for judgment > but these characteristics can be things which impress people of ego, of this world, people who are into control and using people. Ones do not make a point of talking about how God is all-loving, and about family caring and sharing as His children while we are personally caring for any and all people. They make God seem distant and not interested in personally sharing with His own children.

Philippians 2 reads that Jesus emptied Himself of use of His equality with God. Like a sleep. Jesus surpassed all His tests like a humble person.
humble > another characteristic of God, which ones never mention
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I would interpret that to mean that He set aside His prerogative to function as who He is, God, in order to limit Himself to function as a man.
We have to remember Jesus was God and could not deny Himself or lie or actually in Spirit, die. Although in John 6, He seems to mislead His brothers about the feast, and of course Jesus who knew no sin was made sin, then overcame it and minutes later left His body engaged with all the power of death. To observers, He died. And Jesus refused to turn the stone to bread, for His bodily appetite and instead followed His Spirit and Father.
 
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com7fy8

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I would interpret that to mean that He set aside His prerogative to function as who He is, God, in order to limit Himself to function as a man.
Jesus was not limited; even while He was so suffering, Jesus was loving; and while Jesus was dead, Jesus defeated Satan and any and all sin and evil.

So we are guaranteed, with Jesus.

Part of why He had to die, then, was to establish proof for us, of how we can count on Jesus.
 
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Steeno7

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Jesus was not limited; even while He was so suffering, Jesus was loving; and while Jesus was dead, Jesus defeated Satan and any and all sin and evil.

So we are guaranteed, with Jesus.

Part of why He had to die, then, was to establish proof for us, of how we can count on Jesus.

Jesus in His incarnation was as limited as any man, as any man living in total dependency upon God...and a man living in total dependency upon God is a man that God can do anything through.
 
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Steeno7

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We have to remember Jesus was God and could not deny Himself or lie or actually in Spirit, die. Although in John 6, He seems to mislead His brothers about the feast, and of course Jesus who knew no sin was made sin, then overcame it and minutes later left His body engaged with all the power of death. To observers, He died. And Jesus refused to turn the stone to bread, for His bodily appetite and instead followed His Spirit and Father.

Jesus died. He didn't just appear to die, He really died.
 
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ewq1938

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Adam was direct of God, if he remained in grace and never sinned, how long do you think he would have lived?

He would have aged and died at some point unless he ate from the tree of life.

Death came through sin, remember the words of the apostle Paul. Through one man death reigned. Jesus is the second Adam, who gives life.

Spiritual death comes from sin, not physical death. Christ came to save us from spiritual death not from physical death.
 
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ewq1938

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Jesus died. He didn't just appear to die, He really died.


Specifically his body died, that being the first death. That's what happens when any human dies. What does not die as part of the first death is death of spirit or soul.
 
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ewq1938

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Did Jesus rise from death physically or not?

Of course.

What does this have to do with Adam dying physically because he was mortal not because he sinned?
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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He would have aged and died at some point unless he ate from the tree of life.



Spiritual death comes from sin, not physical death. Christ came to save us from spiritual death not from physical death.

Adam was glorious when young, maybe he appeared to be a fire from the loins up and the loins down, like Gabriel. Like it says in Revelation, blessed are they that take part in the first resurrection, death has no power over them. Adam would not have died. Angels don't die, and if we are sanctified, we will become like the Holy Angels. Death is the work of a force of spirits, Jesus overcame them as seen in the resurrection. Death left the people in their graves going for Jesus Christ, and the godly ones returned home from the grave.

In the OT it prophesies of a time when 400 year olds will be considered young, and I believe this comes before the time the godly no longer die. With mention from Revelation of those who practice fornication and witch craft... will have to stay outside the new Jerusalem and from sin they will eventually die.
 
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