Those who really love Jesus prove it -- unto eternal life

ZacharyB said:

James 1:
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation;
for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.”
Wow, this verse covers a lot of ground.
Those who continually endure (pass) the test of being tempted to sin:
-- are blessed
-- will eventually be approved
-- will have proved their love for the Lord
-- will receive the promised crown of eternal life

Matthew 7:
21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name,
cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you (Vine: approved of you);
depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

John 14:
15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him …”
23 If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words …

John 15:14 “You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”
Jesus and His friends love each other!

1 John 2:
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments,
is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him.
By this we know that we are in Him.
This what being “in Christ” is all about.

James 1:
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation;
for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”;
for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Please note:
The Lord doesn’t go around killing sinners with physical death;
no, we’re talking about eternal death here (as is Paul in Romans 6:23, etc.).

After sinning, you are hereby invited to have your sins washed away by Jesus’ blood:
1 John 1:
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 2:
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins,
and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Please notice (v.9) that you are NOT as righteous as you may think you are!
But, proper confessing of sin, i.e. sincere repentance, will remove your unrighteousness.

This confessing of sins here is referring to sincere REPENTANCE,
which is the sorrow over sins committed and the forsaking of them.

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What's your question or point to dialogue?

ZacharyB said:

Dost thou believe these Scripture passages and what they teach?
If thou art OSAS, thou wilt not.
Ergo, thou art free to voice your opinion: pro, con, or not sure.
A trinity of choices.

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Oh ye of little faith OSAS is that of ye Fathers holding.

ZacharyB said:

For those who don't understand olde English, he's votin' Nay.

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Thou states it rightly. Yah knowest me best.

"He forgave you before you repented. That’s crucial. See, that is why it is so outrageous. The gospel is really vulgar, crass and immoral because it says God forgives the world before it repents. In the gospel, repent is always repent and believe. It means turn yourself around from not trusting the forgiveness and trust it. That’s it. It doesn’t mean that you earn it by repenting. You had it before."

- Robert Farrar Capon

ZacharyB said:

That's why everything must be measured against God's word.
Which requires the spiritual understanding of God's word,
as opposed to just reading the English words with one's intellect.
Humans are such spiritual idiots that they really do require
spiritual revelation from the Lord on most things spiritual.

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Don't be so hard on yourself.

ZacharyB said:

James 1:
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation;
for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.”
Wow, this verse covers a lot of ground.
Those who continually endure (pass) the test of being tempted to sin:
-- are blessed
-- will eventually be approved
-- will have proved their love for the Lord
-- will receive the promised crown of eternal life

Matthew 7:
21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you (Vine: approved of you);
depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

John 14:
15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him …”
23 If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words …

John 15:14 “You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”
Jesus and His friends love each other!

1 John 2:
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments,
is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him.
By this we know that we are in Him.
This what being “in Christ” is all about.

James 1:
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation;
for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life
which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”;
for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
Please note:
The Lord doesn’t go around killing sinners with physical death;
no, we’re talking about eternal death here (as is Paul in Romans 6:23, etc.).

After sinning, you are hereby invited to have your sins washed away by Jesus’ blood:
1 John 1:
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 2:
1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins,
and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Please notice (v.9) that you are NOT as righteous as you may think you are!
But, proper confessing of sin, i.e. sincere repentance, will remove your unrighteousness.

This confessing of sins here is referring to sincere REPENTANCE,
which is the sorrow over sins committed and the forsaking of them.

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The OP seems to have no connection to the title of this thread.

So, it appears you think that one must prove their love of Jesus in order to be saved.

So, what Scripture actually says so?

As you know, I can give you many verses that tell us that salvation, or eternal life, is based on faith.

Once faith, THEN the believer is commanded to love and obey Jesus. No unbeliever can do that.

I think you have scrambled the order of things.

ZacharyB said:

I guess Paul has scrambled things also ... his scrambled unorderly mess is in
Romans 6:16-23 ...
obedience >>> righteousness >>> holiness >>> eternal life

... whereupon he warns believers

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This is an interesting twist of a passage, for sure. He never put it together the way you have here. In fact, he proved that righteousness is by faith in ch 3:22-ch 4.

Here are some specific verses that clearly state that righteousness is by faith, not obedience:
3:22, 26, 28, 30, 4:3, 5, 6, 9, 11, 13, 22, 24.

3 times in the short span of 8 verses: sin leads to eternal death

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The fact is; we are all born spiritually dead. As Paul taught in Eph 2:1 - And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

And, we all continue to be spiritually dead until we are born again with eternal life through faith in Christ.

No one becomes spiritually dead at some point in life. We are all born that way.

And, as David wrote in Psa 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

iow, he was sinful at birth.

ZacharyB said:

This is the whole point ...
people need to understand ...
What is true saving faith?
What does true saving faith entail?
Unfortunately ...
the NT warns in many dozens of passages:
True saving faith includes many things, such as obedience and enduring!
(These dozens have been presented here countless times.)

This is how we must reconcile all of the supposedly conflicting passages.
ALL must fit together ... NONE may be ignored.
Tell this to your pastor, church, denomination ... lol

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The only way to know and understand what it means to believe in Jesus is to consult with a dictionary, and we have them in the form of Greek lexicons.

And the Greek word for "pisteuo" is this:

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thing

Now, please cite the line # where I will find any mention of obedience.

When one places their faith, trust, confidence (all meaning the same thing) in Jesus Christ, they are acknowledgingl that their salvation is solely by Him and nothing that they themselves have done or need to do.

Those who believe that salvation can be lost do NOT exhibit "saving faith", since they think there are other requirements in order to get to heaven.

The action of believing in Christ is not what saves us. It is God who saves us. I'm sure you know the verses. However, we also know those God has chosen to save; which is believers, from 1 Cor 1:21. The verse says that God is pleased to save those who believe.

If salvation can be lost, then Christ isn't really a Savior. And He promises that He loses NONE that have been given to Him (Jn 6:39).

So maybe you should ask yourself this Zach....Why did the writers of the NT NOT write ONE verse that specifically mentions losing salvation? But repeated mentions of not only being saved in the past tense, but being protected by God, secured in God's hands? So why is that Zach that we get very clear verses that indicate that becoming saved is a one time thing, you can never be saved again. And that once you are saved, you are protected by God, you will never be taken from the Father's hands.

Why were those words NEVER spoken by Jesus? Instead He tells the woman if she drinks of the water He offers...she will NEVER thirst again. How can you get thirsty again if you drank of the water that Christ specifically said you would never thirst again from?

ZacharyB said:

We all need to ask ourselves ...
Why all of the dire warnings in the NT about enduring in the faith, and many etc.?

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The question is easily answered. The warnings are about God's discipline, expressed by Paul in 1 Cor 11:30 this way: "That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died."

There are also warnings against losing one's reward in eternity, as expressed this way in 2 John 8: "Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully."

Some of these warnings make it clear that we're talking about losing salvation.

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Actually, none of them clearly state that salvation is the subject of loss. Again, discipline and reward.

So, we must ask ourselves ...
Are the NT writers exaggerating, bluffing, giving empty threats, lying, etc.?

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Nope. Legitimate warnings about God's discipline and loss of reward.

But I invite you to provide even one that clearly states that salvation can be lost. Out of the many warning passages, if loss of salvation were true, then at least 1 of them would be clear enough.

Some believers lately have actually been intelligent enough to comment:
"Why all of the warnings, if it's not possible to lose salvation?"
Huh?

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Now that you've been given reasonable answers to the question, what are you going to do about it?

For those "intelligent enough" to have asked your question, what do these "intelligent ones" do with these 6 points?

First, Paul described both justification (Rom 3:24, 5:15,16,17) and eternal life (Rom 6:23) as gifts of God. Then he wrote Rom 11:29 - the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Since he had already described what he meant by "gifts of God", there was no reason for him to specifically list what he meant by "gifts of God".
3:24 - being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus
6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Second, every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe (Eph 1:13). This sealing is a pledge with a view to the redemption of God's own possession (believers - Eph 1:14).
And, this sealing is for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30).
1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
1:14 - who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Third, Jesus tells us WHEN one HAS eternal life; when they believe (Jn 5:24). Then, He tells us that those to whom He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28).
5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Fourth, Paul stated that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, or "whether we are asleep or awake, we will be together with Him" in 1 Thess 5:10. The context begins in v.4 and contrasts believers with unbelievers, or day with night, or being alert with being asleep or sober with drunkeness.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Analysis of this passage:
v.4 tells us that believers are "not in darkness"
v.5 differentiates believers (sons of light and day) with unbelievers (not of night or darkness).
v.6 encourages believers to not live like unbelievers (not sleep as others do, but be alert and sober).
v.7 describes unbelievers and what they do.
v.8 explains that "since we are of the day" (believers), we need to be sober.
v.9 explains the destiny of the believer - not destined for wrath but for salvation
v.10 says that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, we will live together with Him.

Fifth, Jesus noted how people are saved in John 10:9 - “I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

The Greek word for “enters” is in the aorist tense, meaning “in a point in time”, as opposed to the present tense, which those who believe in loss of salvation only emphasize. Iow, one must continue to believe in order to continue to have eternal life. Further, Paul used the aorist tense in his answer to the jailer in Acts 16:31, and Jesus used the aorist tense in Luke 8:12 “believed and be saved”.

Sixth, there are absolutely zero verses that warn us plainly that one can lose their salvation.

ZacharyB said:

This answer is for those who are open to spiritual Truth:

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Your insinuation that I'm not is not only sinfully judgmental but arrogant. As if you can read minds. Please stick with what you know.

Many NT passages speak of losing eternal life.
And I have presented them here often.

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A half truth. You've presented many NT passages, yes. But NONE of them speak of losing eternal life. That is merely an assumption. I've given verses that directly teach eternal security.

But, the 2 latest ones are personal favorites of mine:
1) Romans 6, but one needs to understand Paul's tongue-in-cheek style!

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Which verse in ch 6 speaks of loss of eternal life?

In fact, Paul taught that eternal life is a gift of God (v.23) and in 11:29, that God's gifts are irrevocable.

And neither you nor anyone else has shown from exegesis that Paul ever excluded the gift of eternal life from 11:29.

2) Hebrews 10, leading up to the hilariously optimistic v.39!

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Your claim is certainly hilarious.

10:39 - But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

So, why would anyone think that "destoyed" refers to the lake of fire, or loss of eternal life?

When one dies, what is destroyed is the physical body, not the soul or spirit. Unless you can prove otherwise.

But we know that is impossible because unbelievers will exist forever (eternally) in the lake of fire, proving that their souls weren't destroyed.