Are women inferior to men?

expos4ever

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There is no "male" or "female" for those who are in Christ Jesus. The subjection of women to the power of men was part of the curse of the fall, which has been cancelled by the resurrection of Christ.
I think you are bang-on correct here. While I do not have immediate access to the arguments, I have heard the case made that the "man over woman" relationship is indeed an artifact of the fall and that this "vertical" relationship has now been set back to the horizontal.

I think there are two lessons here:

1. We need to be careful to not read the Scriptures as a set of "timeless truths" - we make hyuuuge (Trump-ism) mistakes when we do that. What was the case at one time in the grand narrative of redemption may no longer hold true;

2. We need to be more sophisticated in our thinking than building a theology based on "verses"; that is the easy route and we need to look at the broad narrative and see the big themes and where the story is going. The reversal of the fall and all that this implies is one of those "big picture" ideas that many miss as they hunt for bite-sized, easily understood statements of doctrine bundled into one tiny verse.
 
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expos4ever

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We are not yet resurrected...that is at Judgement Day.
Obviously we are not yet resurrected, but I see no reason to identify the reversal of the fall with resurrection. There are, I suggest many reasons to see the reversal of the fall as having been achieved at the Cross - 2000 years ago.

Consider these:

1. When Mary first sees Jesus after His resurrection, she mistakes Him for the gardener. I suggested this is a cryptic, yet compelling cue that we are to see Jesus as initiating a new "Garden of Eden" project;

2. Jesus is raised on the "eighth day" - the first day of a new week. Again, we should take the hint - God is embarking on a new round of creative activity to essentially transform the fallen world associated with the first creation account in Genesis.

3. The "new creation" is all over the place in the New Testament. And new creation surely implies the reversal of the fall.

4. There are all sorts of reasons to see Jesus as a second Adam, and this clearly implies that the fall is effectively undone.
 
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Strong in Him

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Yet the God explicitly defines Himself as 'He'. So according to the Bible, the God of the Bible, the Father of Christ is not 'genderless'.

God is Spirit, John 4:24. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God or Spirit of the Lord.

I have already said that God is NOT an "it" - so we need to say "he", "she" or "he/she". Because the NT refers to God as "he" and "Father", you are obviously convinced that he is only a male Spirit. Tell me, how can a Spirit have a gender; how would you tell?
Yes, we call God Father, and I have no plans to do otherwise, nor to start calling the Holy Spirit "she". But the fact remains that God is Spirit. It is also a fact that Scripture says that God chose to give us birth, James 1:18, that he nurtures as a mother nurtures her children, and that we have new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit. Whether you explain that as God being a male Spirit with female qualities or have some other idea; God is Spirit.

That you have forces one to wonder what "God" you are looking for.

Oh please!!

I would say to 'consider' God to be 'genderless' would most certainly be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit that clearly guides us to the understanding of His 'gender identity'.

Not at all.
Jesus told us what is considered blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - knowing something, like the miracles that he performed, is from God yet attributing it to the devil. In other words, giving the devil the credit and honour for something when that glory belongs to God.
Saying that God is Spirit, which is Scriptural, is referred to as male but has female characteristics and is actually neither male nor female, comes nowhere near that definition.
 
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expos4ever

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The 'new' covenant is about 'forgiveness'. That doesn't alter the natural order God created.
Disagree - I think the New Testament clearly and repeatedly expresses the theme of new creation as well. I politely suggest you will be hard-pressed to deny this.
 
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Kersh

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Coming to the conversation late, and without having read all of the previous posts:

No, I don't think that women are inferior to men.

Women are different than men, but this does not mean that they are lesser than men. Although the popular culture wants to deny the differences, even to the point of encouraging us to disregard them, even in our choice of spouse, the differences are real. There are things that my wife can contribute to our family and to our community that I cannot, because I am a man, and vice versa. There are also many things about which our gender does not play a part.

Another issue is how do we apply the writings of Paul on the subject. Paul's letters served two distinct purposes, and it is often difficult to distinguish between them. One purpose was doctrinal; the other was administrative. The doctrinal purpose was to explain the gospel for the churches under his watch to understand it. As doctrine never changes, these passages certainly remain relevant today. The administrative passages pertain to issues that were being dealt with in the local church that he was writing to. Although the principles applied in this passages may be relevant today, often the applications are not. These should be interpreted in light of the social and political context that they are directed towards. And, I think that many of the passages about the role of women likely fall into this category.
 
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Extraneous

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Coming to the conversation late, and without having read all of the previous posts:

No, I don't think that women are inferior to men.

Women are different than men, but this does not mean that they are lesser than men. Although the popular culture wants to deny the differences, even to the point of encouraging us to disregard them, even in our choice of spouse, the differences are real. There are things that my wife can contribute to our family and to our community that I cannot, because I am a man, and vice versa. There are also many things about which our gender does not play a part.

Another issue is how do we apply the writings of Paul on the subject. Paul's letters served two distinct purposes, and it is often difficult to distinguish between them. One purpose was doctrinal; the other was administrative. The doctrinal purpose was to explain the gospel for the churches under his watch to understand it. As doctrine never changes, these passages certainly remain relevant today. The administrative passages pertain to issues that were being dealt with in the local church that he was writing to. Although the principles applied in this passages may be relevant today, often the applications are not. These should be interpreted in light of the social and political context that they are directed towards. And, I think that many of the passages about the role of women likely fall into this category.

The problem with what you're saying is that i believe Paul is referring to spiritual mysteries when hes writing to these churches, and even when hes correcting a Church hes still using that spiritual revelation. People shouldn't dismiss any of his words as irrelevant, and all of them are very relevant today
 
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Tiny Bible

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What appears to be missing here is that people aren't aware that the OP question asks if women are inferior to men.

There's far too many sexist misogynist threads like this on these forums. Sexist misogyny couched in an opportunity to prove the validity of those shortcomings by asking Christians to support them using scripture.

Women are not inferior to men. Each has their role in God's plan and that is absolutely different than the sexist misogynist that argues it a sign of inferiority.
There isn't a single scripture wherein God says women are subjacent to men.

1 Corinthians 11:12
For as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.

Genesis 1:27
God created both man and woman in his own image. Those who claim God's plan reflects sexism, misogyny, aren't of God. Because God never said it.
 
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jimbohank

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1) Well-known passages from the Apostle Paul seem to indicate that women are not to have authority over men or even speak in church.

2) God created the man first, then the woman.

3) Every author of Scripture (that we know of) is a man.

4) All of Christ's Apostles were men.

5) Christ himself is a man, and God is clearly described as masculine in Scripture.

Thoughts?
I would say the answer to the question is emphatically no. When God breathed life into Adam, he breathed both masculine and feminine spirits into him. They are tied together, one not inferior to the other but each having its own spirit. This is why God did not create "woman" from the clay since she was already in Adam. Just because the masculine in form came first doesn't require the feminine to be inferior but it was one with the masculine. God separated the feminine (Eve) out of Adam as a physical companion, yet they were still "one flesh" in the eyes of God...thus where "marriage" comes from...and on a side note, this is why there is such an issue with same sex "marriage".
 
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Hillsage

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Can you show Biblical evidence of such a statement? Paul obviously didn't 'see things' as you have offered them.

Blessings,

MEC
Actually this verse was presented by me back in post 47.

GAL 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


In the Garden Adam didn't create Eve. She was already present within Adam/mankind who was created adrogenous and able to reproduce after his own kind just like all of God's creation.

GEN 1:27 So God created man/MANKIND in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
0120 'adam: ruddy,i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.)

But because of 'his/mankind's' loneliness God removed 'his/mankind's' female part and fashioned another body for it. The Genesis command to rule over all was given to androgenous male/female Adam prior to female/Eve being taken out.

So who do you suppose we should listen to? You or Paul?
Paul, but only in the 'context' of the truth. He wrote 13 books to 9 cities and 3 cultures. The Greeks believed women more powerful than men and made Gods of them. The Romans considered women as more equals. The Jews, during in the 400 silent years, and under the authority of the Pharisees reduced women to chattel. All the restrictive letters of Paul were written to the Greek churches with 'their' particular problems.
 
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Kersh

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The problem with what you're saying is that i believe Paul is referring to spiritual mysteries when hes writing to these churches, and even when hes correcting a Church hes still using that spiritual revelation. People shouldn't dismiss any of his words as irrelevant, and all of them are very relevant today

Perhaps, I used the wrong term in speaking of relevancy. It's not that Paul's handling of administrative issues is irrelevant; it is that they need to be understood in the context of the issue that he was addressing. Often the issue being addressed is one concerning cultural mores of the 1st Century Greco-Roman society. Much of Paul's concerns were about keeping the church from being destroyed as a result of confronting the greater society where that would have been a losing battle and/or where the society's values were not intrinsically unbiblical.

It could be argued that, because that culture has such a misogynistic outlook that having women in leadership positions would be an affront to that culture, so Paul cautioned against this in some, but not all contexts. We know, for example, that Paul praises several female leaders and even references prophetesses in the church. If the command to "remain silent" was a moral imperative, this would be contradictory. If it was in deference to the cultural context, then there is no contradiction.
 
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Extraneous

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What appears to be missing here is that people aren't aware that the OP question asks if women are inferior to men.

There's far too many sexist misogynist threads like this on these forums. Sexist misogyny couched in an opportunity to prove the validity of those shortcomings by asking Christians to support them using scripture.

Women are not inferior to men. Each has their role in God's plan and that is absolutely different than the sexist misogynist that argues it a sign of inferiority.
There isn't a single scripture wherein God says women are subjacent to men.

1 Corinthians 11:12
For as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.

Genesis 1:27
God created both man and woman in his own image. Those who claim God's plan reflects sexism, misogyny, aren't of God. Because God never said it.

The thread has branched into many aspects of biblical doctrine on this issue, its to be expected.
 
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Extraneous

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Perhaps, I used the wrong term in speaking of relevancy. It's not that Paul's handling of administrative issues is irrelevant; it is that they need to be understood in the context of the issue that he was addressing. Often the issue being addressed is one concerning cultural mores of the 1st Century Greco-Roman society. Much of Paul's concerns were about keeping the church from being destroyed as a result of confronting the greater society where that would have been a losing battle and/or where the society's values were not intrinsically unbiblical.

It could be argued that, because that culture has such a misogynistic outlook that having women in leadership positions would be an affront to that culture, so Paul cautioned against this in some, but not all contexts. We know, for example, that Paul praises several female leaders and even references prophetesses in the church. If the command to "remain silent" was a moral imperative, this would be contradictory. If it was in deference to the cultural context, then there is no contradiction.

I dont believe what you are saying is accurate. Paul wouldn't have compromised truth just to please the world. I believe that its possible that Paul is teaching mysteries, such as he refereed to in Ephesians 5:32 for example. It is also possible, and Paul commands it, that woman submit to their husbands, and this refers to men and woman, not Christ and the Church. IT would not be good i think, for the church to submit to Christ but woman not submit to their husbands, at least thats my theory. It would make the Christ and Church analogy meaningless. Husbands are also commanded to love their wives as the Christ loved the Church, which is not small task in itself.
 
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Blind post. I have not read through the previous answers.

To draw an analogy, I will go to my hobby of yarn and needle crafting. I like to knit and crochet.

I don't use knitting needles to crochet, and I don't use a crochet hook to knit. The implements were made for different purposes, and they are not interchangeable with each other. Each has advantages and disadvantages compared to the other. Crocheting is faster and probably easier to learn, but knitting produces a flatter, tighter fabric and may not use up as much yarn. Then again, a crochet hook is often necessary even in knitting, to finish the edges. Plus you have Tunisian crochet, which uses a modified hook and produces something that looks more like knitting--but I think I'll end the analogy here.

Knitting needles and crochet hooks are structured differently, look different from each other, are used differently, and produce different results, but how can I say one is "inferior" to the other? They are both of equal value.

That's all.
 
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In my opinion, absolutely not. As a matter of fact, I think women are most dear to God.
To have a wife, a mother and or grandmother as part of my upbringing, has been nothing short
of euphoric in my day to day existence. When I wake up in the morning, I thank God for the
amazing opportunity he has provided me to be grateful and able to love the women in my life.
The respect I have for women may serve other purposes God intended for me to have or learn.
Can I sacrifice? Can I be loyal?, Can I love? Can I protect? Can I admire? Can I as a man, understand
our differences and with an open mind, revere them? Can I be humbled by their perseverance in the past
roles and treatment they received? Can I comfort them? Can I work hard to provide a stable
environment for them? Can I encourage education and self reliance for them? Can I see they are God's creation
and held in the highest regard by him? Can I learn about nurturing a newborn and the bond they form at
birth with the life they give?
These are just a few "Can I's? I listed regarding my personal thoughts. I find these questions posed to me exciting
and helpful. If I couldn't answer all of these with a "Yes", it would leave room for improvement in regards to my Christian beliefs. If 1 of these shouldn't be answered with a "Yes" , the foundation of Christianity would crumble.
It's hard to live a Christian life ..but it's easy to be a Christian. Having a good woman that shares your belief system of
Christianity makes all the difference. God watches your treatment of women, he sees your answers to the questions they pose to you.
Today and forward, recognize the value of women and their role in spiritual growth. More importantly, recognize
that God demands it!
 
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Stratton609

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1) Well-known passages from the Apostle Paul seem to indicate that women are not to have authority over men or even speak in church.

2) God created the man first, then the woman.

3) Every author of Scripture (that we know of) is a man.

4) All of Christ's Apostles were men.

5) Christ himself is a man, and God is clearly described as masculine in Scripture.

Thoughts?

Well there's this.. Women are equal its just men are given dominant traits
1 Peter 3:7
In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat your wife with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God's gift of new life. Treat her as you should so your prayers will not be hindered.
 
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Tiny Bible

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The thread has branched into many aspects of biblical doctrine on this issue, its to be expected.
Not really.
There is no Biblical doctrine for the Christian wherein Jesus taught that women are inferior to men. Not one passage.
And the important thing for me in that proclamation is to first identify what inferior means.

1.lower in station, rank, degree, or grade (often followed by to):
a rank inferior to colonel.

2.lower in place or position; closer to the bottom or base:
descending into the inferior regions of the earth.

3.of comparatively low grade; poor in quality; substandard:
an inferior product.

4.less important, valuable, or worthy:
B+ bonds are inferior to AAA bonds.

5.acting or performing in a way that is comparatively poor or mediocre:
an inferior observer of human nature.


That is why Paul's writings that are often cited to support those who believe women are by definition that what is bolded above are referred to by those in error.

Paul cannot contradict himself and be in the spirit as some argue of his works in their entirety. He was not always speaking from the spirit and we know this also.
However, When Paul is speaking from the spirit and he says all are one in Christ Jesus and those hoping to postulate their teaching that God decreed women to be inferior to men will argue that what Paul is saying there only pertains to salvation.
However, what they are attempting to argue is that which pertains to the saved man and woman. And that's why those arguments fail the moment they are written.

All are one in Christ Jesus. Of course each sex is differently appointed to serve in this world. Men cannot have children for instance.
However, they are all equal, they are all one, in Christ. And when God decrees we are all one in Jesus then he would be a man that he would lie were he to be said to later claim women by his word are lower in station, rank, grade, place, position, rank, closer to the bottom, substandard, base, inferior, less important to his plans, less valuable, less worthy to him, etc... See the definition posted.

I think if a reader understands what is meant by inferior, the definition, they'll realize what proponents of that argument are stating about God.
And if they're familiar with scripture in the New Testament they will perhaps see that God never said any such thing of women.
That makes it man's word that makes the proclamation that women are inferior when they do such a thing. And that makes that proclamation easily dismissed when Christians cleave to God's word.
In fact, that worldly sinful proclamation is what Jesus came to overcome as part of the fallen characteristic in this world.

The argument then demonstrates who speaks for God and who speaks for themselves. And their personal opinion of women's place in God's creation. In fact, if anyone had the time, I would think those same proponents of women's inferiority are the same one's that either start or participate in the many threads here that condemn Feminism.

Woman hate.
Is a sin.
 
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Judy02

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In 1 Corinthians it is affirmed that the head of man is Christ and the head of woman is man. It is repeated in Ephesians 5:23 that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the church. There is no way to circumvent the obvious biblical testament that man has intrinsic authority in His male nature. Anyone who submits, ironically, to the contrary is merely prioritizing political delusions over the truth revealed by God

Your definition of "head" is based on the English translation and not the koine Greek one that Paul would have used. It had various meanings, and wasn't the ordinary Greek word for authority. The biblical definition of the word "head" is not as "obvious" than what you would like to believe.
 
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Extraneous

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Not really.
There is no Biblical doctrine for the Christian wherein Jesus taught that women are inferior to men. Not one passage.
And the important thing for me in that proclamation is to first identify what inferior means.

Thas not what i was saying. I was just saying that when this topic comes up in a Christian theological debate forum, you gotta expect all angles to come into play, according to what is written in scripture. I dont think anyone here believes woman are inferior.
 
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