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BUT:
Luke 2:36 And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher.......
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BUT:
Luke 2:36 And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher.......
Yes it does say Asher, but you have to remember some of the inhabitants of the Northern Kingdom fled from the Assyrian invasion to Judah and became part of the house of Judah.
2 chronicles 30:6 - So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.
2 Chronicles 30:10-11 - 10 So the posts passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh even unto Zebulun: but they laughed them to scorn, and mocked them.11 Nevertheless divers of Asher and Manasseh and of Zebulun humbled themselves, and came to Jerusalem.
2 chronicles 30:25 - 25 And all the congregation of Judah, with the priests and the Levites, and all the congregation that came out of Israel, and the strangers that came out of the land of Israel, and that dwelt in Judah, rejoiced.
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That nation is ALL BELIEVERS Keras. Scripture makes that point:
Ezekiel 37:15-28 makes the point! For brevity, I quote Ezekiel 37:21-22:
21 Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms.
The King is KING JESUS!!!
The "nation that yields proper fruit" is ALL BELIEVERS as Peter says in 1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
The true Israelites are of the seed of Abraham...WHO IS CHRIST. Try Romans 2:28-29:
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
It's real plain not only in Galatians 2...but also Romans 4, Romans 9, 10, and 11!!!
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keras
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My questions were rhetorical.
The new inhabitants of all the holy Land will be only believers, true Christians and who is it that constitute the bulk of the righteous Christian believers? The descendants of Jacob, now as many as the sands of the sea and still scattered among the nations.
Next to come is the testing of everyone's faith by the Sixth Seal event, then comes the great gathering and settling into the holy Land; the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Jeremiah 31:1-40, Hosea 2:14-23
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Don't be offended...but you have bad rhetoric.
No Keras. Fundamental to your thinking is that you discount a very important point. The apostle Paul went to great pains in Romans 4, 9, 10 & 11 to get5 you to see it has NOTHING to do with physical descendancy. Consider his clear point in Galatians 3
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
Now...this is consistent with Romans 9:6-8 as to WHO thrue descendants are, and that it is not based on physical descendants:
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son.”
Sarah's son was Isaac Keras...now...consider Galatians 4:28 as Paul speaks to the Galatian believers:
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Do you see the problem?
I'll give you opportunity to read what the 6th seal is about. Here is the text...Revelation 6:
12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;
13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.
14 The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains;
16 and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
I don't think you get what that is Keras...but I'll allow you to respond with what your thinking is.
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keras
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Yes, the most important point of who are God' people, is that they are all true, righteous believers. We know they belong to every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10 and Revelation 7:9
But you discount God's promises to the Patriarchs. God will not break those promises, their descendants will receive the blessings promised, including the ownership of all the holy Land area. So my rhetorical question of who is it that constitutes the bulk of the Christian people, is answered by: they are the descendants of Jacob. Only God knows who they are today, Amos 9:9, those whom He has called and preordained, Romans 8:28-30, you and me!
I know the Sixth Seal very well, it will be the next prophesied event, that will reset our civilization.
It is described in over 100 other prophesies as a worldwide disaster of fire from the sun, causing terrible earthquakes, storms, tsunamis and destroying all our modern infrastructure.
I see by the 'they*' that you think 'they' are mistaken about that event being the Day of the Lord's wrath.
Firstly, 'they' applies to everyone on earth. Read the list in verse 15, there is no one who won't say, or at least think, that what is happening is punishment from God. I and many others, who know the truth, will know the Lord has at last thrown off His restraint, Isaiah 42:14-15, and carried out what is so graphically prophesied for His Day, a literal day of wrath.
Secondly, what we are reading here, is a prophecy by Jesus given to His servants, so they will know what will take place. NOT some fictional account, where we must guess the authors intentions!
This foolish argument by people who have another agenda: thinking all the wrath of the Lord happens at the Return, are sadly in error and are simply in the dark about what the Bible prophets actually are telling us.
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No...you discount the fact that God fulfilled that through Joshua. Ever read Joshua 23:14:
14 “Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the Lord your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed.
God delivered, and Israel failed to obey Keras, which led to God putting them out of the land as He said in Leviticus 26:14-46.
What did God tell Moses Keras? Deuteronomy 31:15-18
15 The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud, and the pillar of cloud stood at the doorway of the tent.
16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’
18 But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.
The promises are fulfilled in Christ Keras! Never forget that the true descendants are ALL who receive Christ! They are TRUE ISRAEL!
The failure here is to understand apocalyptic language of prophecy Keras and the fact that the 6th seal is about Israel/Jerusalem's fall in 70AD...but we've done this before. All I can say is *the day* will reveal it Keras, when none of what you believe will happen won't.
Time will definitely tell. The 6th seal has long ago been opened by The Lord Jesus!
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keras
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Have you ever read Judges 1:19, 21, 27, 29-34, where it says the ancient Israelites never did get rid of the old inhabitants of the Land. Yes, God gave it to them, but they failed to complete the job. That awaits fulfilment and this time, the Lord Himself will do the clearing and cleansing of the Land. Deuteronomy 32:42. Jeremiah 10:18
No disagreement from me on this.
Proof, please!
When exactly did the sun turn black, the moon blood red, the stars fall and the sky roll up?
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Did you read Joshua 2:1-5:? This is what God said to them:
Now the angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim. And he said, “I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land which I have sworn to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you,
2 and as for you, you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed Me; what is this you have done?
3 Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they will become as thorns in your sides and their gods will be a snare to you.’”
4 When the angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the sons of Israel, the people lifted up their voices and wept.
5 So they named that place Bochim; and there they sacrificed to the Lord.
It wasn't because God didn't give it Keras...it's that Israel didn't follow through. Let's set the record straight...don't be selective. Don't you recall God telling them NO ONE would be able to stand against them? If they would have simply obeyed they would have taken the land and driven out all those God told them to.
You have to understand the language as apocalyptic prophecy of God's judgement! It's not literal. Why does Peter say Joel 2:28-32 was fulfilled in Acts 2:14-21???
Understand the language of prophecy. Next read Isaiah 13 as God describes the judgment of Babylon. It's typical apocalyptic prophetic language.
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keras
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OK, the record is straight. Ancient Israel never did conquer all the original inhabitants and they contributed to Israel becoming apostate. All part of God's plan.
So now, what about all the prophesies saying it will be only true believers who will occupy all the holy Land one day? Ezekiel 20:38, Isaiah 35:8-10, Revelation 7:9
If a prophecy can be literally fulfilled, why say it won't be? Sounds as if you are setting your own parameters, as to whether the Prophetic Word is what will literally happen, or what you think is just merely allegory with no particular meaning. 2 Peter 1:19 refutes such thinking and Paul in 2 Thessalonians 5:4 says we should not be in the dark about the forthcoming Day of the Lord.
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Not "God's plan" Keras. It was God's foreknowledge...there's a difference.
You do realize when God gave Ezekiel 20:38 the captivity was in full swing? They returned to the land via Cyrus of Persia.
When it comes to Isaiah 35:8-10 try contrasting that with Isaiah 40:3 as well as Malachi 3:1. Remember what John the Baptist said in John 1:19-23???
Sounds like you ignore the language of scripture Keras...and you will not allow scripture to define it's terms of how to understand it. If you think it's literal...just carry on, THE DAY will reveal it!
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keras
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Yes, I realize that and I know from Ezra 9:2, they were not true, righteous God fearing people, as the Lord's people will be after He judges them as per Ezekiel 20:35-38. Apart from the fact those who were in Babylon were only people of Judah, with some of the other tribes joined with them, all Jews by choice.
The great gathering of Christian people from every nation into all of the holy Land, is yet to happen. Great will be the Day!
Because Jesus wasn't accepted by the Jews, John the Baptist wasn't either. He never fulfilled the prophesies you quote. You could say he did in a spiritual sense, but from many prophesies incl Isaiah 35:8-10, there will be a literal pathway for the Lord's people to travel to the holy Land on. Isaiah 49:9-13, Isaiah 30:21 & 29, Psalms 67:7-10
What I don't allow, or take any notice of, is the opinions of people who believe scripture is mostly fulfilled, or is just allegorical. That idea simply leaves you without a clue of God's plans for our future.
Most Bible scholars agree that if scripture can be read literally, then it should be.
Yes, that Day will reveal the truth of prophecy and all who have failed to understand what we are so comprehensively told about in the Bible, will be shocked by it.
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You have a peculiar way of reading scripture Keras. It is a fact that both Judah and Israel were captive but Israel went captive first. It is because of Hezekiah's reforms that God spared Judah from the Assyrians. Try Isaiah 37! Realize that both Israel and Judah returned to the land it's in the record of of Ezra 2 Keras.
Are you going to tell me you can't understand the highway is through Jesus? You do realize John The Baptist prepared the way? It's poetic prophecy Keras, this is why reading it literary instead of as the prophetic poetry that it is you're missing the point.
Interesting. The Pharisees were literal too...they couldn't understand anything Jesus said. When Jesus told them they needed to eat His flesh and drink His blood, they thought it was literal.
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keras
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Yes, the ten Northern tribes went into exile in Northern Assyria, 135 years before Judah went to Babylon. Some of them had gone down to Judah and assimilated with them, becoming Jews. They were Jews who came back from Babylon, a total of 42,360: Ezra 2:64 and there is no mention of any people that belonged to the Northern tribes, only Judah, Benjamin and some Levites. Ezra 4:1
The House of Israel, the northern tribes have never returned, they remain to this day, scattered among the nations and as many as the sands of the sea. Ezekiel 34:5-6, John 11:54, Hosea 1:10 and Josephus said they were a vast multitude, still in exile among the nations.
Re Isaiah 37:31...the survivors left in Judah.... this chapter is about the House of Judah only. The prophets always make careful separation between Israel and Judah; over 160 times! Their re-joining will happen as described in Ezekiel 37.
During this Church age, yes: our salvation is thru Jesus. This does not preclude a literal fulfilment of the prophesies that so clearly say the Lord's people will travel by many means back to the holy Land. Psalms 107:1-43
Re John the Baptist, perhaps you could tell us what he did do, other than baptize Jesus and some others.
Re literal interpretation of the prophesies: No need to demonstrate your extreme bias about this issue. When people have a right understanding of how the last days will unfold, something that eludes you, then it is quite easy to see what is literal and what is, either the best description the prophet could do, or is pure allegory and metaphor.
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dfw69
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What is the testing of the six seal?
Then Jesus returns to gather the Christians to Beulah?.. You plan to live forever in the land of Beulah or to live out the rest of your life there if indeed Jesus returns soon?
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dfw69
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Do you believe there are two groups of people?... The called out ones and those not called out?
That those in Christ are made up of Jew and Gentiles who have entered into covenant with Jesus is one group ...
And the other group of Jews and Gentiles who deny Christ and the new covenant?
If there remains unsaved Jew and Gentiles..who are not in covenant with him for whatever reason,will not God seek to save those that are lost in the last days .. Especially if a false messianic age comes upon the lost Jews and Gentiles in the future?
What do you think that is ebed?
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That is you making the text say what it doesn't. Furthermore what do you do with Jeremiah 3:15-18...just for starters?
Now...it's very clear what Ezra said in Ezra 2...and he says NOTHING about assimilation...that's you including something not said.
Now you're really making a Psalm fit your thinking! The Psalm is not prophetic...it's a testimony to God's mercy and goodness to Israel despite their failings
The bias is yours Keras. All I need do is point you to Malachi 4:5-6
5 “Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.
6 He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse.”
You can't diminish what John the Baptist did Keras. Jesus testified to His work...so once again, you're missing the point of scripture. John the Baptist initiated the baptism of repentance preparing the way of Jesus. How can you diminish him in light of John 1:26-27?
While you may *think* the last days will elude me...time will tell.
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That depends on what you mean by "called out". The only two groups I know of are the saved and the lost.
Yes!
Have you ever read Romans 4 for what it says?
There have been many false messiahs dfw69...there is no false messianic age. That is complete fabrication.
That is the destruction of Jerusalem. To bad you don't realize it.[/QUOTE]
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