Let us discuss the Land

Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2010
25,594
32,980
enroute
✟1,402,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
There have been more wars fought over the Holy Land than any other geographical location in the whole of the Earth for thousands of years.Today Jerusalem is a cup of trembling for the whole world. The Temple Mount is the most valued piece of real estate for three major religions. My question is why? Why is our Father and Satan so interested in this piece if property? The final battle will be fought there. I think it has more significance than we have thought of. All scholarship is welcome, and let us please keep it civil.
 

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Site Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,935
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟531,725.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
In Ezekiel 36, there is a unique prophecy, unlike any other in the entire Bible. For it is addressed to a piece of real estate, which it explicitly defines as, "the mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around." Ezekiel 36:4

This prophecy then goes on to explicitly state that this particular piece of real estate will again be inhabited by "all the house of Israel, all of it." Ezekiel 36:10
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,776
3,419
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,168.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
There have been more wars fought over the Holy Land than any other geographical location in the whole of the Earth for thousands of years.Today Jerusalem is a cup of trembling for the whole world. The Temple Mount is the most valued piece of real estate for three major religions. My question is why? Why is our Father and Satan so interested in this piece if property? The final battle will be fought there. I think it has more significance than we have thought of. All scholarship is welcome, and let us please keep it civil.
I think Satan would be interested because he was served notice in Genesis that his head was going to be bruised by the seed of the woman. And the messiah, who is going to do that, comes out of Israel. So the plan seems to have been - destroy Israel and the messiah can't appear.

When that plan failed, Satan's plan b seems to be destroy Israel so that Jesus has nothing to come back to, as a reason to come back.
 
Upvote 0

Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2010
25,594
32,980
enroute
✟1,402,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I don't think God is so interested in that piece of property. Men are interested in it, because they think God is interested in it.
I guess this is a possibility, but I believe there is more to it than that. Thanks for your input brother.
 
Upvote 0

Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2010
25,594
32,980
enroute
✟1,402,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
In Ezekiel 36, there is a unique prophecy, unlike any other in the entire Bible. For it is addressed to a piece of real estate, which it explicitly defines as, "the mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around." Ezekiel 36:4

This prophecy then goes on to explicitly state that this particular piece of real estate will again be inhabited by "all the house of Israel, all of it." Ezekiel 36:10

This shows that our Father is definitely interested in the land itself.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Biblewriter
Upvote 0

Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2010
25,594
32,980
enroute
✟1,402,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I think Satan would be interested because he was served notice in Genesis that his head was going to be bruised by the seed of the woman. And the messiah, who is going to do that, comes out of Israel. So the plan seems to have been - destroy Israel and the messiah can't appear.

When that plan failed, Satan's plan b seems to be destroy Israel so that Jesus has nothing to come back to, as a reason to come back.

Even if Israel is destroyed ,(I am not suggesting that it will happen) the land remains.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I guess this is a possibility, but I believe there is more to it than that. Thanks for your input brother.
There is definitely more to it, but you and I will not agree on this matter. I believe there is much more symbolism in scripture than most recognize.
 
Upvote 0

Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2010
25,594
32,980
enroute
✟1,402,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
There is definitely more to it, but you and I will not agree on this matter. I believe there is much more symbolism in scripture than most recognize.
Maybe we will not agree, but sharing our thoughts about the matter can't help but improve our knowledge base. I believe there are much deeper spiritual implications than most realize and consider.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zippy2
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Doug said Satan's plan B might be to "destroy Israel so that Jesus has nothing to come back to".

Satan is no dummy. He understands what's important to God, and it is his people who are his kingdom, not a piece of land, nor that nation in the middle east we call "Israel". All this talk about an earthly nation or a land being significant to God is really missing the point of God's plan, which is to live with His people whom he loves. Why do you think the last book of the Bible ends with a description of God living with his people? Because that's the end goal. That's what this is all about.

Revelation 21:3
Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

What Jesus will come back for is his people. We are his people; all those who believe in Him. That's why Satan seeks to destroy our faith, not our land or that nation called "Israel". Neither God not Satan care about anything but our salvation or lack thereof. That's what this battle is all about.

That's why when prophecy talks about Israel, it's talking about a group of people, not a land or an earthly nation, for God's people are not separated from the rest by borders or citizenship papers granted by the state. No, God's people are separated from the rest by their faith, and all those who have faith have citizenship in the Israel of God.

Ephesians 2:19
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

All those prophecies regarding Israel and Jerusalem are concerning God's kingdom, which is all those who believe in Him. Ezekiel 36 is regarding our inheritance as believers, not the inheritance of the people who trace their lineage to Abraham. Paul makes it abundantly clear that it is your faith that matters, not your lineage.

Galatians 3:7
Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

Look. According to Ezekiel 36 the inheritance will be given to the people when they are cleansed. How are people cleansed? Only through Jesus. Which means this entire chapter is about those who believe in, and are cleansed by, Jesus.

Ezekiel 36:12
Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

Ezekiel 36:25
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

And what is our inheritance?

Revelation 21:1,7

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth... He that overcometh shall inherit all things.

That's what it's all about. We, God's people, will inherit the new earth. Ezekiel 36 merely puts it in terms that made sense to the people of that time, but all those terms were symbolic for a better land.

Even though Abraham who was promised the land, never stepped foot in the promised land. How can that be? It's because the real promised land is not on this earth, but the next.

Acts 7:5

And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

That promise was made to Abraham and his seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:16

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Hebrews 3 confirms this by saying that only the believers can enter into the promised land.

Hebrews 3:18-19
And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

In other words, the promised land was not for the Jews, but for Christians. And it can not be the land that we call Israel today because Abraham never set foot in it.

Hebrews 4 continues on...

Hebrews 4:8

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

In other words, Joshua did not give them rest. The real promise of rest is to be fulfilled on the new earth.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2010
25,594
32,980
enroute
✟1,402,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Satan is no dummy. He understands what's important to God, and it is his people who are his kingdom, not a piece of land, nor that nation in the middle east we call "Israel". All this talk about an earthly nation or a land being significant to God is really missing the point of God's plan, which is to live with His people whom he loves. Why do you think the last book of the Bible ends with a description of God living with his people? Because that's the end goal. That's what this is all about.

We know that the Kingdom of God is within us, but our Father has a purpose for everything that He does. He purposefully led Abraham to that specific land called Israel today, only then it was called Canaan. He picked the place where Isaac was to be sacrificed which we call the Temple Mount. Yes,Jesus is coming back for His people, but His feet will touch down on the Mount of Olives. I think Satan does not want people to consider the land itself as important to God because for us to consider it as important to God reveal the schemes of the evil one in these last days.
That's why when prophecy talks about Israel, it's talking about a group of people, not a land or an earthly nation,

I have to say that I agree with you about Israel being people. But I disagree with you about the land. The land itself has spiritual implications that we know not of, but we can explore and find it's significance, regardless of our denominational teachings.At Bethel Jacob saw the angels ascending and decending on a ladder.

Gen. 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.

12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13 And, behold, the Lord stood above it, and said, I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

Genesis 28:15
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

Our Father thought the land was important enough to bring Jacob back to.
Look. According to Ezekiel 36 the inheritance will be given to the people when they are cleansed. How are people cleansed? Only through Jesus. Which means this entire chapter is about those who believe in, and are cleansed by, Jesus.

Ezekiel 36:12
Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

The prophecy in Ezekiel 36:1-15 is specifically directed to the mountains of Israel. It is NOT about the New Jerusalem, or the New Earth. It is a promise to the land itself. It cannot be read any other way.

This from the MSG
Ezek. 36:
6-7 “Therefore prophesy over the land of Israel, preach to the mountains and hills, to every ditch and valley: ‘The Message of God, the Master: Look! Listen! I’m angry—and I care. I’m speaking to you because you’ve been humiliated among the nations. Therefore I, God, the Master, am telling you that I’ve solemnly sworn that the nations around you are next. It’s their turn to be humiliated.

8-12 “‘But you, Mountains of Israel, will burst with new growth, putting out branches and bearing fruit for my people Israel. My people are coming home! Do you see? I’m back again. I’m on your side. You’ll be plowed and planted as before! I’ll see to it that your population grows all over Israel, that the towns fill up with people, that the ruins are rebuilt. I’ll make this place teem with life—human and animal. The country will burst into life, life, and more life, your towns and villages full of people just as in the old days. I’ll treat you better than I ever have. And you’ll realize that I am God. I’ll put people over you—my own people Israel! They’ll take care of you and you’ll be their inheritance. Never again will you be a harsh and unforgiving land to them.

13-15 “‘God, the Master, says: Because you have a reputation of being a land that eats people alive and makes women barren, I’m now telling you that you’ll never eat people alive again nor make women barren. Decree of God, the Master. And I’ll never again let the taunts of outsiders be heard over you nor permit nations to look down on you. You’ll no longer be a land that makes women barren. Decree of God, the Master.’”

What makes these mountains and valleys so important that He specifically prophesies to them, and speaks His blessings to them?
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,677
2,491
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,160.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
All of the holy Land is important to God:
It is the place I have chosen as a dwelling for My Name. Nehemiah 1:9
It is the place God tends and His eyes are upon it from one year to the next. Deuteronomy 11:12
He will give the Land to His righteous people, they will be His people and He will be their God. Ezekiel 11:16-21
We Christians are those He has called, from the Jews and the gentiles......and it shall come to pass in the very place where the Lord rejected Israel, they shall be called 'sons of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26

The time is near when the Lord will clear the Land ready for His people to live there:
Rejoice.....for God will take vengeance on His enemies, punish those who hate Him and cleanse His peoples Land. Deuteronomy 32:43
The Lord will uproot all those evil neighbors who have encroached upon the Land allotted to His people. Jeremiah 12:14
Wicked men will burn, the Land scorched and people are fuel for the fire. Isaiah 9:18-19

The Lord will send rain and regenerate the Land:
But now, you Land of Israel, spring forth your branches and yield your fruits, for the homecoming of My people is near. Ezekiel 36:8-38
Water will spring up in the desert, grass and trees will grow. Isaiah 35:6-7
Do not fear, for the Lord will give rain in due seasons and the produce will be plenteous. Joel 2:21-24

So the Lord's righteous people WILL inhabit all of the Holy Land, Psalms 37:29, Revelation 5:9-10, they will live there in peace and prosperity:
A highway will appear....the Lord's people, set free will march on it and enter Zion with shouts of joy. Isaiah 35:8-10
In this Land, now ruined and depopulated, there will again be flocks of sheep and many people. They will receive all the blessings I have promised to My people. Jeremiah 33:12-15
By My strong Hand and in My outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out from the nations. I will judge you in the wilderness and all who revolt and rebel against Me will not enter the Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38
You will know that I am the Lord, when I bring you into the holy Land. I alone shall have your worship and the nations will see it. Ezekiel 20:41-44
This last passage from Ezekiel, is paralleled in Revelation 7:1-17, where the vast multitude of people from every tribe, race, nation and language are gathered in Jerusalem, praising God. People who have just passed through the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster, Luke 21:34-36, they will be the Lord's witnesses, sending out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus.
'About' 20 years will pass before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign, the Seventh Seal time gap. The time is about right for all the rest of the prophesies to happen and Jesus will come just in time to wipe out the armies of the Anti-Christ at Armageddon as they gather to destroy His people.
 
Upvote 0

Hazrus

Active Member
Dec 10, 2015
275
88
46
Not USA
✟15,555.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As an Amillennialist, I don't see that much importance to a physical, geographical region called Israel. I firmly believe that the Church is Israel and those of us who are not Jewish by ethnicity are grafted in to the Promises made to Abraham, etc.

I am torn, however, because I've been leading bible studies on Acts recently and Paul makes a strong point of going to the Jews first in every town he goes to, despite experiencing exceptionally strong opposition. Is there still something special about the ethnic Jewish people who believe in Jesus? I'm still thinking about it. Those that don't believe in Jesus will still face God's wrath, obviously.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As an Amillennialist, I don't see that much importance to a physical, geographical region called Israel. I firmly believe that the Church is Israel and those of us who are not Jewish by ethnicity are grafted in to the Promises made to Abraham, etc.

I am torn, however, because I've been leading bible studies on Acts recently and Paul makes a strong point of going to the Jews first in every town he goes to, despite experiencing exceptionally strong opposition. Is there still something special about the ethnic Jewish people who believe in Jesus? I'm still thinking about it. Those that don't believe in Jesus will still face God's wrath, obviously.
I think what you're referring to is the fact that Paul was a Jew himself and mourned for his people, so wanted to make sure they had every opportunity to accept salvation.

Romans 10:1-2
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.

Don't forget, Paul also said "circumcision means nothing" so he certainly didn't think the Jews were special in anyway.

Galatians 6:15

Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The prophecy in Ezekiel 36:1-15 is specifically directed to the mountains of Israel. It is NOT about the New Jerusalem, or the New Earth. It is a promise to the land itself. It cannot be read any other way.
The very fact that God is speaking to mountains and hills and ravines and valleys which have no ears to hear and no brains to consider means that it has to be read another way. It can not be read literally.
What makes these mountains and valleys so important that He specifically prophesies to them, and speaks His blessings to them?
That would be a great question if he were actually speaking to the topography of the middle east.

This entire chapter is about possessing the land, is it not? The inheritance of those who are cleansed, which can only mean followers of the Christ, which makes this our inheritance, not that of the Jews. Do you not believe that Joshua led the people of Israel into the promised land? Of course you do. That being the case, would God promise an inheritance to one group, let them possess it, and then promise the same land to another group? No, God would never do that. That wouldn't make any sense.

What would make sense is for the land that they possessed to be a type of a better land which we will possess. Just as the Israel of the old testament was a type of the Israel of God, of which we are citizens as followers of Christ. A better kingdom, to inherit a better land. Let's see if there is any scriptural basis for this concept.

Genesis 12:1
"Now the LORD had said to Abram: 'Get you out of your country, from your family and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you.'"

was a type of the sacrifice required for us to inherit the earth.

Luke 14:26-27
If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

And the rest, which is the promised land, is a type for a better day.

Hebrews 4:8
For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

Therefore we can know, that although Joshua led the people into the promised land, there is a better land still to come. Now, if the land to come is better than the first, then it can not be the same land.

And of course, we all know that there is indeed a better land to come because we can read about it in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21:1...7
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away...He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

So, yes there are many verses that talk about the inheritance of the land on this earth, but that inheritance has already taken place. Joshua led the people into that land, so this can not be a future inheritance for us.

The future for us is described in the book of Revelation chapters 21 and 22. So knowing that we will inherit the entire new earth, and knowing that the land known as Canaan was already given to the people of the old testament, does it really make sense for us to also inherit this inferior piece of property on an earth that will soon pass away and which has already been given to another people? No it doesn't.

Sure, it's easy to say "Even if it doesn't make a lot of sense, this is what it says, therefore I believe it". The problem with that is that God's plan always makes sense. And so if a literal reading doesn't make sense, then we have to consider that we may be reading about types and symbols, of which we know there are many in scripture.

Everything (hyperbole) in the old testament was a type for something in the new testament. The Israel of the old testament was a type of the Israel of the new testament, and the land inherited by the Israelites in the old testament was a type of the new earth that we will inherit, as described in the new testament.
 
Upvote 0

Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2010
25,594
32,980
enroute
✟1,402,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
The very fact that God is speaking to mountains and hills and ravines and valleys which have no ears to hear and no brains to consider means that it has to be read another way. It can not be read literally.

God spoke into nothing and all of creation heard so what are you talking about? That was as literal as you can get.All of nature hears his voice and obeys.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zippy2
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,776
3,419
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,168.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Doug said Satan's plan B might be to "destroy Israel so that Jesus has nothing to come back to".

Satan is no dummy. He understands what's important to God, and it is his people who are his kingdom, not a piece of land, nor that nation in the middle east we call "Israel". All this talk about an earthly nation or a land being significant to God is really missing the point of God's plan, which is to live with His people whom he loves. Why do you think the last book of the Bible ends with a description of God living with his people? Because that's the end goal. That's what this is all about.
I don't disagree that Satan wants to destroy the Children of Israel. But regarding the land itself, it sure seems to be a lot of blood shed over exactly who is entitled to that land. The Muslim god Allah, according the Muslims, they say that land belongs to them. So is Islam - Satanic or not?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy
Site Supporter
Dec 19, 2010
25,594
32,980
enroute
✟1,402,603.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I don't disagree that Satan wants to destroy the Children of Israel. But regarding the land itself, it sure seems to be a lot of blood shed over exactly who is entitled to that land. The Muslim god Allah, according the Muslims, they say that land belongs to them. So is Islam - Satanic or not?

Well, they deny that Lord Jesus is the son of God so that makes them antichrist. Yes, it seems to me that there is a spiritual tussle over the very mountains of Israel.And you know, the U.N. has a base at the top of Mt. Hermon. The Golan Heights are hotly contested.Our Father says the land is His
Isaiah 14:25
That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Brian45

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2002
1,008
152
✟34,089.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There have been more wars fought over the Holy Land than any other geographical location in the whole of the Earth for thousands of years.Today Jerusalem is a cup of trembling for the whole world. The Temple Mount is the most valued piece of real estate for three major religions. My question is why? Why is our Father and Satan so interested in this piece if property? The final battle will be fought there. I think it has more significance than we have thought of. All scholarship is welcome, and let us please keep it civil.
I believe it is about ownership and who is going to rule the world from there. God lays claim to it but Isaiah 14:13 tells us that Satan is going to get there first.
 
Upvote 0