I'm not sure I'm a Christian anymore

KitKatMatt · Mar 27, 2016

Extraneous said:
I don need to prove anything. Im content with hope in Christ.

When you assert that your side is the answer over the side of someone else, then yes you do need to prove your argument.

Otherwise, it's best not to say anything in the first place.

Extraneous · Mar 27, 2016

KitKatMatt said:
When you assert that your side is the answer over the side of someone else, then yes you do need to prove your argument.

Otherwise, it's best not to say anything in the first place.

I could post scripture, but it would only say the same thing i already said. Those with ears would hear, and those without would not. So i dont bother.

KitKatMatt · Mar 27, 2016

Extraneous said:
I could post scripture, but it would only say the same thing i already said. Those with ears would hear, and those without would not. So i dont bother.

If you don't bother backing up your position then you should rethink posting, unless it's under the banner of "I personally believe X".

Extraneous · Mar 27, 2016

KitKatMatt said:
If you don't bother backing up your position then you should rethink posting, unless it's under the banner of "I personally believe X".

The proof is found by faith, and God rewards those who seek him with their whole heart by faith. Thats the only proof you will find, and the only way you will find it. Thats what im trying to say. Im not God, and cant give something only he can give. THe demand is impossible to fill. Also, Its not like i went to An atheist website and started asserting that God was real and that the bible is true. Get my point?

Extraneous · Mar 27, 2016

IOW, i gave the only answer that is possible.

KitKatMatt · Mar 27, 2016

Extraneous said:
Get my point?

Not really.

Extraneous · Mar 27, 2016

KitKatMatt said:
Not really.

We could debate all day long but at the end we would still not prove anything. You either hear Gods voice promising us eternal life, or you dont. What good is it to pit religion against religion? I could go scoff at all those other religions that were mentioned, but what good would it do? Maybe we could all be atheists instead, and look forward to the grave. I believe in Christ because he makes sense, he puts love in my heart and gives purpose and meaning to it all. If you want proof i would ask where is the proof that Atheism is real? Or another religion? Its futile to pit religions against themselves, and to pit atheism against religion. It serves no good purpose other that to argue. What good does that do?

KitKatMatt · Mar 27, 2016

Still not really sure what your point is right now, to be honest.

Extraneous · Mar 27, 2016

KitKatMatt said:
Still not really sure what your point is right now, to be honest.

Ok. Have a nice day KKM

FireDragon76 · Mar 27, 2016

You have hope in Christ, OK. Good for you. But that's all that is, hope. IT's not certain knowledge. It doesn't give you the right to pontificate about what is good and bad for other people, much less delve into the details of human nature. The Bible is full of mythology, every educated religious scholar admits this. It is very wrong to not appreciate mythology as mythology, and not as scientific fact. Your fundamentalist religious assumptions are just too naïve to appreciate this.

Tigger45 · Mar 27, 2016

FireDragon76 said:
You have hope in Christ, OK. Good for you. But that's all that is, hope. IT's not certain knowledge. It doesn't give you the right to pontificate about what is good and bad for other people, much less delve into the details of human nature. The Bible is full of mythology, every educated religious scholar admits this. It is very wrong to not appreciate mythology as mythology, and not as scientific fact. Your fundamentalist religious assumptions are just too naïve to appreciate this.

God's blessings bud.

MissH · Mar 27, 2016

I've actually been wrestling with similar feelings for years.

I haven't been to church in years, got really turned off by some of the fundamentalist attitudes. Had some experiences that made me feel like I wasn't good enough for church. That plus the attitudes towards other people (especially towards Muslims, Syrian refugees, gay/lesbian and transgender people) really made me upset. One minute they would be talking about God's love and the next minute they would be spewing hatred once the topics of abortion, gay marriage, or Muslims came up.

I'm a bit liberal minded, but some experiences over the past year has left a burden on my heart that God is real and there. But not sure where to go from there because I feel like if I go to church the minute they find out I'm a Democrat they'll hate me. How can I have fellowship with people like that? I think that churches and current Christianity are very far from what Christ had in mind.

Thanks for listening to my issues haha. I've barely scratched the surface. Happy Easter everyone

JoeP222w · Mar 27, 2016

FireDragon76 said:
Are you sure this theology is compatible with "Whosoever will, may come"? Sounds to me like Christian Fundamentalism.

And frankly that last sentence was ridiculous. I was raised a Methodist, ergo, a Christian. I was a Christian.

Not sure what Theology that is based on "Whosoever will, may come". God is sovereign, not man.

Being "raised a Methodist" (or "raised a Baptist", or even "raised a Christian") does not make a person a Christian. Jesus Christ said you must be born again. The Christian faith is not hereditary. The Christian faith is a gift from God.

JoeP222w · Mar 27, 2016

FireDragon76 said:
I would recommend you humbly read some science and history books and look at your fundamentalist religion critically, realizing that you could just be very wrong, as wrong as no doubt you believe Hindus or Buddhists also are wrong. What makes your beliefs so special?

Science and history are not mutually exclusive, nor polar opposites to faith in God. Hindus and Buddhists are indeed wrong because they are based in earning your way to Heaven through "good" works. There is no Savior in Hinduism or Buddhism, or any other religion. Salvation is a gift from God through faith alone, by God's grace alone, in Jesus Christ alone. Salvation cannot be earned or man would have cause to boast. And there are no proud people in Heaven, only redeemed sinners.

And if you believe (I wrote "if") that Hindus, Buddhist or any other religion that denies the truth of Jesus Christ, goes to Heaven, you are further demonstrating how you have little to know understanding of the truth of God, and if you do not understand the truth of God, you know Him not.

My beliefs are not special because of me, but because of the one I trust in: Jesus Christ. There is nothing in me, in and of myself, that makes me special. What makes it special is the object of my belief.

FireDragon76 · Mar 28, 2016

Extraneous said:
I believe in Christ because he makes sense, he puts love in my heart and gives purpose and meaning to it all.

But that "love in your heart" goes hand in hand for contempt for gays. So it seems a rather self-centered affair, and quite reprehensible. It smacks more of a destructive drug than a pursuit of truth. I'm sure heroin makes life liveable for heroin junkies, too, and that's what I see your religious beliefs as being no better than. As long as you've got your fix. you don't care who is hurt by your ideology.

If you want proof i would ask where is the proof that Atheism is real?

Go to a childhood cancer ward. Really, you are not being very insightful here.

Your god is frankly an illusion created centuries ago based on primitive fears and wish fulfillment. If there is an ultimate reality, it is not some Mesopotamian patriarch obsessed with bronze age sexual mores.

FireDragon76 · Mar 28, 2016

JoeP222w said:
Being "raised a Methodist" (or "raised a Baptist", or even "raised a Christian") does not make a person a Christian. Jesus Christ said you must be born again. The Christian faith is not hereditary. The Christian faith is a gift from God.

Methodists, like Lutherans and Episcopalians, believe that a human being is born again in baptism. Your particular beliefs are far newer than you think, they are not those of most early Christians. What gives you the right to dictate what is, and is not, Christianity? Even Christian Forums doesn't do this. So I think you sir, are in the wrong here. I was raised a Christian, and I still am nominally a Christian.

Extraneous · Mar 28, 2016

FireDragon76 said:
But that "love in your heart" goes hand in hand for contempt for gays. So it seems a rather self-centered affair, and quite reprehensible. It smacks more of a destructive drug than a pursuit of truth. I'm sure heroin makes life liveable for heroin junkies, too, and that's what I see your religious beliefs as being no better than. As long as you've got your fix. you don't care who is hurt by your ideology.

Go to a childhood cancer ward. Really, you are not being very insightful here.

Your god is frankly an illusion created centuries ago based on primitive fears and wish fulfillment. If there is an ultimate reality, it is not some Mesopotamian patriarch obsessed with bronze age sexual mores.

I dont have contempt for gays. Who am i to judge them? However, that still doesnt make that lifestyle right. I cant judge others like that and i dont, but i do what i see is right for myself. I would rather die than not be found in Christ. I would rather die every day, a thousand deaths, before i would accept my own sin. If i should be found as a sinner, i would rather suffer and die with it, rather than accept it.

graceandpeace · Mar 28, 2016

JoeP222w said:
"I mean, I'm baptized but... I'm not sure I really believe"

Being baptized does not make a person a Christian.
---------
"Going to church just doesn't interest me, and I don't believe in a God that has churchgoing as a mandate for my life."

Going to church does not make a Christian. However God does command that we are not to forsake the assembling together.

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"I'm not even sure anymore what God I believe in."

Then it sounds like you are not a Christian and possibly never were, if you believe that there are multiple gods.

-------
"Most of all, I believe in compassion- that is my measure of somebody's morality, and I'm not sure this is really a Christian value at the end of the day."

Then someone has really deceived you on what being a Christian is. One of the central ideals of the Christian faith is compassion. Do Christians fail at compassion? Unfortunately, yes.

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"I'm anti-authoritarian and don't believe in telling people what is the best way to live, because I believe those sorts of questions are best answered by the individual. I'm very unhappy with how Christians have handled the LGBT issue- it goes against my live and let live attitude, and my sensitivity towards my fellow human beings."

This is a very unbiblical viewpoint. God commands us to submit to the authorities place above us (Roman 13). God also tells us that the heart is deceptive and is no basis for morality (Jeremiah 17:9-10).

God commands us to proclaim the gospel to all people. He never commands us to "live and let live", but to warn people of the danger that they are in while they remain in their sin.

Why are you "unhappy" how Christians have handled homosexuality? Because unlike the world, the Christian will not affirm or celebrate someone while they are in rebellion to God in their sin?

------
"I don't see many Christians willing to go the extra mile to understand somebody different from them. I see a lot of worship of religious tradition and orthodoxy over caring about real human beings."

Then I wonder about who you have interacted with? And if a Christian is not showing compassion as a regular trend in their life, they are not walking in accordance with the truth of the Bible. The follower of Christianity is not what defines Christianity. God and His inerrant word of the Bible are what defines Christianity.

-----------
"We really don't know God, he's an incomprehensible mystery."

In a way that is true. We don't know the absolute depth of God, because He is infinite and we are not. But we can know God through His Son Jesus Christ, and what He tells us in His inerrant word of the Bible.

--------
"The classical western theology is absurd, even ridiculous, and can't be taken seriously by intelligent people."

What do you define as "classical western theology"?

---------
"Believing in an all-powerful benevolent God is simply absurd."

I don't disagree. But that is not the God of the Bible and not the one true and living God. God is not "all-powerful benevolent" while having no other attributes. God is righteous, holy, perfect, eternal, infinite, loving, grace, mercy, omni-present, omniscient, has a righteous wrath against sin, among other attributes.

---------
"So the way I see it, Christians, as followers of Jesus, should be a humanistic religion more like Confucianism or Taoism, with God and his will left a mystery, and focused on the human predicament."

That is not Jesus of the Bible, it is a false "Jesus" you have created in your imagination to suit your desires. And it sounds like you have been deceived by the social gospel, that Jesus came for simply social justice. That is not the truth. Jesus came to bear witness to the truth: that man is dead in his sins against the holy, righteous and perfect God and yet God in His immeasurable love, came to give mercy, grace and love for all who would abandon their sin and rebellion and trust in Him. Taking care of the poor and needy is important and it is a side effect of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but it is not the gospel itself.

I would recommend you read and study the Bible and humbly ask God to reveal the truth to you, because from what you wrote, you appear to be greatly deceived on the truth of God, the Bible and Christianity. I don't truly know your heart, but it sounds as if you never were a Christian.

Extraneous said:
I dont have contempt for gays. Who am i to judge them? However, that still doesnt make that lifestyle right. I cant judge others like that and i dont, but i do what i see is right for myself. I would rather die than not be found in Christ. I would rather die every day, a thousand deaths, before i would accept my own sin. If i should be found as a sinner, i would rather suffer and die with it, rather than accept it.

^To the above posters:

Please do not teach against the values of this forum. This is the Liberal Christian forum. One of the values of this faith group is acceptance for all, including the LGBT community. Fundamentalist viewpoints are incompatible with the forum's values. You are welcome to post & ask questions, or post in fellowship, but you may not promote views contrary to the forum's values. Please familiarize yourself with the statement of purpose for this forum:

A few things to know about WWMC members:
1) They believe that Jesus never shut out anyone based on age, race, gender identity, religious affiliation (or lack thereof), sexuality, or political views. If you are reading this you are welcome here.

2) WWMC members believe that God has shown that we all "see through the glass darkly" (I Cor. 13). It is therefore impossible for any human to fully know God's will, and therefore have a monopoly on the truth. They believe the Bible to be a valuable resource, but not free from error.

3) The members here believe God is merciful and loving: When we judge God's children (whom we all are) we transgress against God's express command. When we who are finite judge others, we presume on an infinite God's throne, His mercy and justice. Such judgments go against our beliefs. Further, we believe it is contrary to the teachings of Christ to judge, or have an opinion, on the final destination of any soul or group of souls. Such decisions are solely up to the Lord, our God.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/whosoever-will-may-come-statement-of-purpose.7890671/

Extraneous · Mar 28, 2016

graceandpeace said:
^To the above posters:

Please do not teach against the values of this forum. This is the Liberal Christian forum. One of the values of this faith group is acceptance for all, including the LGBT community. Fundamentalist viewpoints are incompatible with the forum's values. You are welcome to post & ask questions, or post in fellowship, but you may not promote views contrary to the forum's values. Please familiarize yourself with the statement of purpose for this forum:

A few things to know about WWMC members:
1) They believe that Jesus never shut out anyone based on age, race, gender identity, religious affiliation (or lack thereof), sexuality, or political views. If you are reading this you are welcome here.

2) WWMC members believe that God has shown that we all "see through the glass darkly" (I Cor. 13). It is therefore impossible for any human to fully know God's will, and therefore have a monopoly on the truth. They believe the Bible to be a valuable resource, but not free from error.

3) The members here believe God is merciful and loving: When we judge God's children (whom we all are) we transgress against God's express command. When we who are finite judge others, we presume on an infinite God's throne, His mercy and justice. Such judgments go against our beliefs. Further, we believe it is contrary to the teachings of Christ to judge, or have an opinion, on the final destination of any soul or group of souls. Such decisions are solely up to the Lord, our God.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/whosoever-will-may-come-statement-of-purpose.7890671/

Thanks for the info. Im not teaching anything, i was accused of something by a poster who assumed something they shouldn't have assumed in the first place, because i gave no reason for such an assumption. I then answered that assumption and provided my opinion. No worries however, i wont respond further in this forum. Peace

graceandpeace · Mar 28, 2016

MissH said:
I've actually been wrestling with similar feelings for years.

I haven't been to church in years, got really turned off by some of the fundamentalist attitudes. Had some experiences that made me feel like I wasn't good enough for church. That plus the attitudes towards other people (especially towards Muslims, Syrian refugees, gay/lesbian and transgender people) really made me upset. One minute they would be talking about God's love and the next minute they would be spewing hatred once the topics of abortion, gay marriage, or Muslims came up.

I'm a bit liberal minded, but some experiences over the past year has left a burden on my heart that God is real and there. But not sure where to go from there because I feel like if I go to church the minute they find out I'm a Democrat they'll hate me. How can I have fellowship with people like that? I think that churches and current Christianity are very far from what Christ had in mind.

Thanks for listening to my issues haha. I've barely scratched the surface. Happy Easter everyone

There are churches that are accepting of Democrats, I can assure you. :angel:

In general the Mainline denominations are accepting of different kinds of people, though admittedly this can vary some from region to region. I don't want to get this thread off-topic, but perhaps we (forum members) could help you find a church that will accept you & that also will not bash Muslims, etc. If you're interested, you could start a new thread, or I'd be willing to help, just message me.

Peace be with you.

I'm not sure I'm a Christian anymore

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