Futurist Only Prophecy to be fulfilled.

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keras

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The testimony of a future restoration of Israel to both her God and to her ancient homeland is so overwhelming that the only way to escape that conclusion is to say that very, very many prophecies will never be fulfilled.
Absolutely correct. All the true righteous Israelites will live in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land.
This is not how it is at present with just the Jewish people living in fear in only a tiny portion of the Land.
So who do you think will fulfil Gods promises of restoration? Keep in mind Matthew 21:43 ....The Kingdom will be taken from you, [the Jews] and given to a people who bear the fruits thereof.
Who bears fruit? Who are the true Israel of God? Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 3:26-29
Who, therefore, inherits the Promises of God to His people? Psalms 37:29, Isaiah 60:1-22, Ezekiel 34:11-31
It is we, Christian people: from every race and language, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:18b, that will be as God always intended His people to be, a light to the nations and witnessing His salvation to the world. Isaiah 66:19 - the 144,000, who will go out into the nations in pairs, proclaiming the coming Kingdom of Jesus.

As I have stated, Riberra, the 144,000 are selected by Jesus, Revelation 14:1-7 BEFORE His Return to all the world. Proved by 2 Thessalonians 1:10 .....He is revealed to His own. Aren't you aware that Jesus has in many times past, revealed Himself to people in dire need. Starting with Paul on the Damascus road.
It must be possible for enough undefiled young men to be found among the vast multitude. Revelation 7:9

Luke 17, I don't see in any of your quotes that it is the Messiah as a visible person who will bless those people who will inhabit all of the holy Land. However it is Jesus who will destroy the enemies and will guide them, in the same way as the ancient Israelites were. 1 Corinthians 10:4 & 11
 
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Riberra

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As I have stated, Riberra, the 144,000 are selected by Jesus, Revelation 14:1-7 BEFORE His Return to all the world. Proved by 2 Thessalonians 1:10 .....He is revealed to His own. Aren't you aware that Jesus has in many times past, revealed Himself to people in dire need. Starting with Paul on the Damascus road.
It must be possible for enough undefiled young men to be found among the vast multitude. Revelation 7:9
My question was do you believe that you meet the -requirement- to be part of them - the 144,000 -?
 
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keras

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My question was do you believe that you meet the -requirement- to be part of them - the 144,000 -?
As a married man with 5 children, I do not.
In 2010-12, my wife and I lived in the holy land, for 3 months in Israel, then in Amman, Jordan. While there I received the inspiration to write articles on Bible prophecy. I also had a vision that I would return to the holy Land one day, so I know that provided I remain steadfast in my Christian faith, I will be a part of God's plans for His people, as they all go there to live. Psalms 107:1-43 has this great story, their redemption and gathering into the Land of blessings. The righteous shall see it and whoever is wise will understand the loving kindness of the Lord.
 
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Riberra

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As a married man with 5 children, I do not.
In 2010-12, my wife and I lived in the holy land, for 3 months in Israel, then in Amman, Jordan. While there I received the inspiration to write articles on Bible prophecy. I also had a vision that I would return to the holy Land one day, so I know that provided I remain steadfast in my Christian faith, I will be a part of God's plans for His people, as they all go there to live. Psalms 107:1-43 has this great story, their redemption and gathering into the Land of blessings. The righteous shall see it and whoever is wise will understand the loving kindness of the Lord.
That part will occurs only at the Coming of Jesus in glory after the Tribulation.
 
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keras

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That part will occurs only at the Coming of Jesus in glory after the Tribulation.
Your opinion, but not the truth of God's plan as told to us by the prophets:
1/ The 'firstfruits', the Jewish people go back to the Land, but in unbelief. Luke 21:29-31
2/ The terrible and shocking Day of the Lord's wrath, the Sixth Seal, that will de-populate all the Land. Isaiah 6:11-13
3/ The gathering of all righteous Christians, after that Day of cloud and darkness. Ezekiel 34:11-31
4/ The holy Land is regenerated and His people go to live there. Isaiah 35:1-10, Revelation 7:9
5/ The Seventh Seal time gap of 'about' 20 years, during which all that is prophesied to happen before the Return takes place. When Jesus Returns in glory, it will be the faithful remnant who say: Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord.

Yes, Jesus will send out His angels to gather all His people that survive the GT. at His Return. But the first gathering, soon after the Sixth Seal, is described quite differently. Isaiah 66:18-21, Jeremiah 31:8-9, Ezekiel 11:17, Zechariah 10:8-10

There is simply no point in the idea that all those things, so vividly and comprehensively prophesied, happen after the Return. Apart from the fact you must shuffle or ignore the sequence as given in Revelation.
 
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Biblewriter

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I don't disagree with you, but what Scripture suggests this before Jesus' return?

None. For Isaiah 66 very clearly say this will take place after He comes, not before.
 
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Riberra

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Riberra said:
That part will occurs only at the Coming of Jesus in glory after the Tribulation.
Your opinion, but not the truth of God's plan as told to us by the prophets:
....
There is simply no point in the idea that all those things, so vividly and comprehensively prophesied, happen after the Return. Apart from the fact you must shuffle or ignore the sequence as given in Revelation.
Do you believe that the 2 passages below refers to the 6 Th Seal events and a gathering of the Saints in the Holy Land some weeks aftermath ..../ or to Revelation 19:11-21 and Matthew 24:29-31 ?

2 Thessalonians 1:10
10 When he shall come to be GLORIFIED in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Jude 13-15 (KJV)

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
........................................
Revelation 19:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:8
....for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
 
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keras

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None. For Isaiah 66 very clearly say this will take place after He comes, not before.
Please provide the verse that 'clearly state' Isaiah 66:1-21 happens after the Return.
I, for one do not see any of that chapter up to verse 21 being Millennial. Only Isaiah 66:22-24 is during the Millennium.
Jesus does not Return in fire, His chariots like a whirlwind, in His furious anger..... Isaiah 66:15
 
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keras

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Do you believe that the 2 passages below refers to the 6 Th Seal events and a gathering of the Saints in the Holy Land some weeks aftermath ..../ or to Revelation 19:11-21 and Matthew 24:29-31 ?
2 Thessalonians 1:10 is paralleled by Revelation 7:9-17 and Revelation 14:1, where Jesus is revealed to His people. Note that 2 Thess 1:7-9 is another description of the Sixth Seal judgement/punishment of the ungodly.
I have pointed out that Jesus has and does reveal Himself to individuals now. He is spiritually working on earth all the time, not just sitting idle in heaven. John 5:17

Jude 13-15 must be referring to the Great White Throne judgement of ALL people.

Re who wears fine white linen garments: both the armies of heaven AND the righteous saints will, as well as Jesus too, at His Return, but His will be splashed with the blood of the nations, from His previous Day of wrath. Isaiah 63:1-6
 
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keras

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We agree. I'm sorry I misunderstood you.
Well, perhaps you could provide the proof of the theory that Isaiah 66:1-21 is all after the Return of Jesus. I do not see it.

Although, like most of the OT prophesies, it isn't in chronological order; it does give us details of how the Lord will deal retribution to His enemies, [v6] by a judgement of fire. [v14-15] Then how He will gather His people by various means of transportation [v20] and some of them will go out as missionaries, [v19 -the 144,000] and some will serve as priests in the Temple they will build. [v1 & 21, Ezekiel 43:10-12]
The new nation of Beulah, born in a single Day, [v7-9, Isaiah 62:1-5] will consist of all the true Christian people, brought out of the nations and they will live in all of the holy Land in peace and prosperity. [v10-13] Ezekiel 36:8-12
After all this and what else is prophesied to happen before the Return, takes place, THEN Jesus will come down, visible to everyone, destroy the armies of the Anti-Christ, send out His angels to gather His people from their place of safety, and commence His Millennial reign.

The new heavens and the new earth, that God is preparing, [v22-24] will appear after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-8
 
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FredVB

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Isaiah 66 is showing the coming judgment in God's justice on the wicked, for this world, it isn't something that has it done separately when Christ will come, so it is the same event, and Christ is manifest with the identity of Yahweh God. Gentiles will be there, but the people of Israel, those who are Jewish, are not excluded from the promises in the Bible for them with those given to the non-Jewish Christian church instead in their place. Isaiah 66 shows promise for Jerusalem. Verse 20 speaks of brethren brought to Jerusalem from nations abroad where there was estrangement from God. Who are those? They are scattered Jews. There is focus on the people of Israel in this. We are told that, ultimately, among all who remain, all those of Israel will be saved, Romans 11:25-27. The context of that is all about those of Israel, who have been distanced with their obstacles to the gospel of salvation for them through Christ. The promises are to those who will remain of them; and others, who are not Jewish, can be included with them, as in being grafted in through Christ.
 
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keras

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Isaiah 66 is showing the coming judgment in God's justice on the wicked, for this world, it isn't something that has it done separately when Christ will come, so it is the same event, and Christ is manifest with the identity of Yahweh God. Gentiles will be there, but the people of Israel, those who are Jewish, are not excluded from the promises in the Bible for them with those given to the non-Jewish Christian church instead in their place. Isaiah 66 shows promise for Jerusalem. Verse 20 speaks of brethren brought to Jerusalem from nations abroad where there was estrangement from God. Who are those? They are scattered Jews. There is focus on the people of Israel in this. We are told that, ultimately, among all who remain, all those of Israel will be saved, Romans 11:25-27. The context of that is all about those of Israel, who have been distanced with their obstacles to the gospel of salvation for them through Christ. The promises are to those who will remain of them; and others, who are not Jewish, can be included with them, as in being grafted in through Christ.
Please explain how it is possible for Isaiah 66:15-21 to happen after the Return and during the Millennium reign?
How does Matthew 24:31 say Jesus will gather His people then? Will those angels ride the horses, chariots, mules, etc?
Verse 19 says some of those gathered will be sent out to proclaim the glory of the Lord to the nations. They are clearly the 144,000, as per Revelation 7 & 14, who are selected before Jesus Returns, when He is seen by all the world, making missionizing unnecessary.
You also confuse who are the Lord's people with the Jews. The N.T. makes it perfectly clear: all who truly believe in God and who accept Jesus as their Savior, are deemed to be Israelites. That includes Messianic Jews. Galatians 3:26-29
 
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FredVB

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Please explain how it is possible for Isaiah 66:15-21 to happen after the Return and during the Millennium reign?
How does Matthew 24:31 say Jesus will gather His people then? Will those angels ride the horses, chariots, mules, etc?
Verse 19 says some of those gathered will be sent out to proclaim the glory of the Lord to the nations. They are clearly the 144,000, as per Revelation 7 & 14, who are selected before Jesus Returns, when He is seen by all the world, making missionizing unnecessary.
You also confuse who are the Lord's people with the Jews. The N.T. makes it perfectly clear: all who truly believe in God and who accept Jesus as their Savior, are deemed to be Israelites. That includes Messianic Jews. Galatians 3:26-29

You have ignored that it is shown all the remaining people of Israel will be saved. Where is it conclusively said those sent to the nations are the 144000 that were mentioned in Revelation? Those passages in Isaiah 66 make reference to the new heavens and the new earth, which Yahweh has coming and which will always endure, but the passage overall is still pertaining to Christ's return.
 
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keras

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but the passage overall is still pertaining to Christ's return.
Isaiah 66:1-21 describes things that must happen before the Return:
His judgement/punishment of the world by fire, the world as it is now, similar to how it was in the days of Noah.
The establishment of the new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy Land, in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 62:1-5, Jeremiah 30:18-22
The Lord will make His power known to His servants [not visible yet] and will destroy His enemies. The Psalms 83, Sixth Seal event. Psalms 11:4-6
He will gather peoples of every race and language, Revelation 7:1-9 and from them, select 144,000 to declare My glory to those who have not yet heard of Me. Proof that this must be before He is seen by all the world at His Return.
You have ignored that it is shown all the remaining people of Israel will be saved
Yes all true, righteous Israel will be saved. Who exactly is Israel? Galatians 3:26-29 tells us.
 
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FredVB

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I will not argue all the other points, because a lot of extrapolation is made for how it is all expained in any case.

keras said:
Yes all true, righteous Israel will be saved. Who exactly is Israel? Galatians 3:26-29 tells us.

This is just wrong, and it robs Paul's meaning of what he was passionate about. The context of Romans 11:25-27 is showing it is the people of Israel that are meant, and the context does not support that the promise is suddenly there for "spiritual Israel" instead, which is not an issue there.
 
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Douggg

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Yes all true, righteous Israel will be saved. Who exactly is Israel? Galatians 3:26-29 tells us.

I don't read anything about "righteous Israel" in Galatians 3:26-29.

I do read in Romans 3:9-10...

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

So, Keras, righteous Israel is a misnomer, as none are righteous neither Jew or Gentile.

Jew and Gentile, become a new creation in Christ, according to the spirit. According to the flesh, we are still Jew and Gentile.

According to Galatians, we are children of Abraham according to the spirit, which by the seed of the promise, which is by faith, not by the seed of the flesh. Thus, we are a new creation in Christ, according to the spirit - which is the only way.
 
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keras

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Jew and Gentile, become a new creation in Christ, according to the spirit. According to the flesh, we are still Jew and Gentile.
But in God's eyes, all those people who believe in Him and accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus are deemed righteous and are true Israelites. Set apart people: Deuteronomy 7:9, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 2:10
 
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Douggg

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But in God's eyes, all those people who believe in Him and accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus are deemed righteous and are true Israelites. Set apart people: Deuteronomy 7:9, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 2:10
Not hardly. True Israelites (in the way the apostle was explaining that them calling themselves Israel are not all Israel) are them who are Israel by the flesh and by the spirit.

The message was not that gentiles become Israelites by virtue of becoming Christians, born again in the spirit .

I am not an Israelite and don't care to be. Abraham himself was not an Israelite. Jesus is coming and His reward is with him, that's what counts.
 
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keras

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The message was not that gentiles become Israelites by virtue of becoming Christians, born again in the spirit .
I do believe that in God's eyes, true believers are deemed to be Israelites. 1 Peter 2:9-10
Each of all the people from every tribe, nation and language, Isaiah 66:18b, Revelation 5:9-10, will be assigned to one of the 12 original tribes. Ezekiel 48:30-34 Revelation 21:12
However, we are told the Lord's people and the holy Land will be given new names. Isaiah 62:4
 
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