Futurist Only What does Revelations 7:14 & Rev 20:4?

vinsight4u said:

You need to ditch the red type if you want me to look at your posts. Maybe
others can easily read it, but I can't. The 5th seal souls - are not yet lived souls.
That takes place when the saints -as the wife puts on righteousness.
This is what the church waits for.
OT saints would not be made perfect without the church. This is shown in
Hebrews 11:40.

"God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

1 Timothy 6:16
"Who only hath immortality...."

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vinsight4u said:

seal 7 is - silence in heaven
and a return of the seven angels
The trumpets are already over.

Watch for where John uses the definite article.

He saw - the seven angels.
in Rev. 8:2

So you must now go find where their story begins.
Rev. 15:1 - has -seven angels
and then within this chapter the definite article is added.

None of the trumpets occur after the 7th seal. The trumpets
angels get seen ready for more action after it. Here is when they
will become the vials angels that will pour out the wrath of God.
Their earlier sounded the trumpets story is only written in chapter 8, but it is not happening then. John is just identifying the particular set of angels that shows up.

the seven angels which stood before God
They stood back when the numbers report was heard by
John in Rev. 7. They gave the report to God.
They are the sealing set of "we" angels of Rev. 7.

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vinsight4u said:

They are sealed back in Rev. 7. So now what groups are seen
in Rev. 7?

sealing angels
and
those that came out of great tribulation

This means the dragon, woman, beast, trumpets must all
occur in this chapter as hidden.

Watch how the sealing angels join up in 7:2.
What happens when the last of these angels speaks?
The trees can be harmed. He has added the trees plague
to the other plagues that have already been handed off
to the four angels.
they have >earth, sea, and trees plagues/ways to hurt

What is the first trumpet against? trees
What is the second trumpet against? sea
What are the final three trumpets against?
the inhabiters of the earth

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vinsight4u said:

Rev. 7 is a new vision shown to John.
You have to let verse 1 be the start of a new story/prophecy.
Scene 1 is - set for what time?
the time of four corners is about to come on the earth

Scene 2 is - angels come from the east and deliver ways to
hurt - they deliver the trumpets plagues to the four angels

Why?
Because the seven angels will return to heaven and sound
the seven trumpets. The plagues will come forth by the actions
of the four angels in the earth area.

So did the vision that ends in Rev. 6:17 include the great
tribulation also? Yes
We know because the stars of heaven fall and then people try to
hide from the One one throne's face.

For the trib time -people will try to hide from the face of the serpent, and God will hide His face.

5th seal - great tribulation
6th seal - the stars of heaven fall
=an after the trib event

Rev. 7:1 starts a new vision, and it too will show events
of the great tribulation.
Rev. 15 shows that man cannot enter into the temple in
heaven until the seven plagues of the seven angels are
fulfilled. This would mean that all seven trumpets must
have sounded before the time of Rev. 7:15 when John sees
people in His temple that came out of great tribulation.

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vinsight4u said:

The first trumpet is against the trees.
The second trumpet harms the sea.
Yes, the 144,000 are sealed before any of the trumpets sound.
So wouldn't it be odd to seal this group, have a great tribulation
multitude of martyrs and then wait clear till Rev. 8 to have the
trumpets occur? John tells us that he saw sealing angels in
Rev. 7 and -the seven angels -in Rev. 8:2. Rev. 8:2 is only
where their story continues. Where do you think John first
made us aware of this set of seven angels? It was in 15:1.
To have the great tribulation in Rev. 7 and sealing angels that
hand off plagues to the four angels, we are going to have to do
some moving of chapters in to get the correct order in which they
were shown to John.
Rev. 7:1 four angels
John did not say -the four angels. So he just now is making
us acquainted with them.
The only chapter where a set of angels could gather up plagues
to give to the four angels is chapter 15. So bring these seven angels and that chapter of events into chapter 7.

Rev. 15 -What did John see?
another sign in heaven

So can we just move this right over to chapter 7?
no
We need to find what other signs were shown to John
before this one.

Rev. 12 - a great wonder in heaven/a woman
another wonder in heaven /great red dragon
Rev. 15 -another sign in heaven

See how John's writing will flow very smoothly when we
line events up properly?

Before we can move chapter 15 to chapter 7 to bring
plagues into that chapter, we have to move the very
first time that John saw a wonder in heaven- at 12:1.

This would mean that chapter 11's ending must not link
up to the start of chapter 12? Right.
Chapter 11's ending shows what - great hail
But John never gave us a damage report. Did this great
hail happen on the earth yet? no It is a warning of what is
to come with the next set of seven plagues. That set will end
with great hail. This is showing that chapter 12 would not be
next. Pull out chapters 12, 13, 15, 14 and move them to chapter
7. This would then make chapter 11's ending flow smoothly into
the start of chapter 16, and the soon pouring out of the vials. The 7 angels won't be standing in heaven for this job. They will
be told to - Go.

Once you are in chapter 16, the rest of the chapters will flow
smoothly. John was not told to seal this book -as in the
chapters - sayings that came to him because he had eaten
the little book.

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Linet Kihonge said:

Revelations 7:14 speaks of saints who survived the great tribulation (am assuming from the last seal of the 7).

Revelations 20:4 speaks of saints who survived the mark of the beast (after Revelations 18).

So is Rev. 7 speaking of "rapturing" of the church and those who would have died in Christ then or rather the survivors of pre-tribulation?

And is the Chapt. 20 about the resurrection of the post tribulation saints?

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vinsight4u said:

Here is the way the events were placed to John
before the seven thunders uttered their voices.

a new vision of events
Rev. 7:1
"And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four
corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any
tree."

next verse
"And I saw another angel ascending from the east..."
So how many other angels have also ascended from the east
ahead of this one?
six

Before this verse you need to drop in chapter 12, 13, and part of
15 so you can have John getting to where he saw seven angels
leave the temple in heaven -wearing the outfits having pockets
so they can set out soon to the earth - in the east -and end
up in chapter 7 to seal people.

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vinsight4u said:

The parable of the wheat and the tares is set for what time?

the end of the world

not the rapture of the church

Look up wheat and chaff and see what you find in the NT.

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