Being a Christian vs being Christ-like

Cola Seven · Mar 22, 2016

One thing that bothers me is when people talk about Christianity in terms of "tradition" and "heritage" and "good old yesteryear". Back in the "old days" most people were not true Christians. They were Christian-in-name-only. They were like the Pharisees, the hypocrites that Jesus warned us about.

theDevolutionist · Mar 22, 2016

Caretaker said:
But it's more than "looking". The proof of the pudding is in the fruit, so to speak.

With regard to your comment about salvation NOT being a "journey", what do you make of this:

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling," -- Philippians 2:13

Well, since Jesus said that those who believe in Him have eternal life (John 5:24), and since He replied to the Jews that the work of God is to believe Him whom He has sent (John 6:29), and since the same author of Philippians also told the Romans that he who does no work, but believes, is justified (Romans 4:5), I would contend that the verse above refers not to working for or toward salvation, but to work out the remainder of your earthly life as a saved person should.

Again, if this were all automatic, we wouldn't need to be told, would we? Paul, John, and James wouldn't need to tell us to tame our tongues, to treat our brothers and sisters with love, to stop being greedy, covetous, sexually immoral, gluttonous, and drunk. They would say "just do what comes naturally." But they didn't. Instead, they recognized that the spirit contends with the flesh, and that a saved person may will to indulge the flesh.

As another poster above observed: It was those who called him "Lord, Lord" and had wonderful works to point to of whom Jesus would say "I never knew you." I believe it is those who say "Lord, Lord it is all You - Your work, Your mercy, Your victory, Your love on which I rely" who will be those whom Jesus "knows" in the end.

This isn't to say that those who have believed and are therefore indwelled by the Holy Spirit may have no fruit - I believe they will, even if only a little. But it is to say that those whose confidence derives from visible work in their own lives may be in danger of hearing those horrible words. Is your confidence in the finished work of Christ? Do you believe that "it is finished?" Or are you relying on evidence of ongoing work in your own life?

Extraneous · Mar 22, 2016

I never noticed this before now. That's why i love posting scripture, i learn as i post. More to chew on. :study:

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

Daniel 3:3 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was sixty cubits and its width six cubits.

katerinah1947 · Mar 22, 2016

Extraneous said:
I would give them a little lead way perhaps, they could also just be babes.

Hi,

I did not speak those Words. Jesus did.

His point was when you find people who are mean to anyone, or in any fashion, that they are posing as females who are following Him, grapes, or males that are posing as following Him, figs.

Thus, even if priests or the Pope, or ministers or Christians, we are not to listen to them, about God unless it is words directly out of The Bible.

I totally understand your babes in the woods comment.

The difference is probably, babes are innocent, Matthew 7:15-16'rs, have a purpose to their errant actions and words.

It is to gain from people, using The Bible.

Matthew 7:15 only was given to me, as a description that I could use for a certain religious group out there.

The Holy Spirit, audibly, quite audibly gave that to me, one day, and I did not know what Matthew 7:15 was.

So, I looked it up. And, I still did not understand. Yes, I believed the information. It is not possible to not believe it, when it comes that way.

I used Matthew 7:16 over the next three months or so, and looked at the members of that group when not performing. The first one was just a worker. I found a way to be in his work area, while he was working.

What a mean guy. Then, I kept looking and looking. They were all like that. I even checked with others who knew them in their non performance roles. OH YEAH. Was a response from someone, and her stories just kept on coming.

Interesting. All mean people are Matthew 7:15 types, even in Civilian lives.

CAUSING TO STUMBLE, seemed to say, their actions were more than accidental.

LOVE,

Kenny'sID · Mar 22, 2016

donfish06 said:
If you came to Christ, then something isn't right. The disciples didn't "go to" Christ, He went to them. "We haven't chosen Him, He has chosen us."

Personally, Christ came to me just like he came to the disciples. I was on my couch, not looking for Him, not even thinking about Him when He called me.

Then I seem to have a serious problem. Since that is a fact, and I came to Christ, I can only take it as you mean I am not saved or have no relationship with Christ at all since we haven't chosen him but he us. So what would you suggest now, might as well go out and get laid? maybe a couple of times? fire up a doob? or any number of things. I mean why not, I've been holding back on sin all this time for nothing and since I have to now wait for something that may not happen, I might as well have a good time in doing so....right?

Let me ask you, when Christ came to you, what was that like...exactly?

So 2 questions there and pretty important ones at that...I'll await your answers.

Extraneous · Mar 22, 2016

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,

I did not speak those Words. Jesus did.

His point was when you find people who are mean to anyone, or in any fashion, that they are losing as females who are following Him, grapes, or males that are following Him, figs.

Thus, even if priests or the Pope, or ministers or Christians, we are not to listen to them, about God unless it is words directly out of The Bible.

I totally understand your babes in the woods comment.

The difference is probably, babes are innocent, Matthew 7:15-16'rs, have a purpose to their errant actions and words.

It is to gain from people, using The Bible.

Matthew 7:15 only was given to me, as a description that I could use for a certain religious group out there.

The Holy Spirit, audibly, quite audibly gave that to me, one day, and I did not know what Matthew 7:15 was.

So, I looked it up. And, I still did not understand. Yes, I believed the information. It is not possible to not believe it, when it comes that way.

I used Matthew 7:16 over the next three months or so, and looked at the members of that group when not performing. The first one was just a worker. I found a way to be in his work area, while he was working.

What a mean guy. Then, I kept looking and looking. They were all like that. I even checked with others who knew them in their non performance roles. OH YEAH. Was a response from someone, and her stories just kept on coming.

Interesting. All mean people are Matthew 7:15 types, even in Civilian lives.

CAUSING TO STUMBLE, seemed to say, their actions were more than accidental.

LOVE,

See, that's unwise because even Satan can transform himself into an angel of light. See 2 Corinthians 10-11. No wonder RCC seems to lack discernment, and seeks joining with Kenneth Copeland.

I always thought the thorns were the riches of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth. See the parable of the sower.

Caretaker · Mar 22, 2016

theDevolutionist said:
Well, since Jesus said that those who believe in Him have eternal life (John 5:24), and since He replied to the Jews that the work of God is to believe Him whom He has sent (John 6:29), and since the same author of Philippians also told the Romans that he who does no work, but believes, is justified (Romans 4:5), I would contend that the verse above refers not to working for or toward salvation, but to work out the remainder of your earthly life as a saved person should.

Again, if this were all automatic, we wouldn't need to be told, would we? Paul, John, and James wouldn't need to tell us to tame our tongues, to treat our brothers and sisters with love, to stop being greedy, covetous, sexually immoral, gluttonous, and drunk. They would say "just do what comes naturally." But they didn't. Instead, they recognized that the spirit contends with the flesh, and that a saved person may will to indulge the flesh.

As another poster above observed: It was those who called him "Lord, Lord" and had wonderful works to point to of whom Jesus would say "I never knew you." I believe it is those who say "Lord, Lord it is all You - Your work, Your mercy, Your victory, Your love on which I rely" who will be those whom Jesus "knows" in the end.

This isn't to say that those who have believed and are therefore indwelled by the Holy Spirit may have no fruit - I believe they will, even if only a little. But it is to say that those whose confidence derives from visible work in their own lives may be in danger of hearing those horrible words. Is your confidence in the finished work of Christ? Do you believe that "it is finished?" Or are you relying on evidence of ongoing work in your own life?

We seem to be mixing apples with oranges here, at least with regard to "works", which is more correctly understood as fruit. We are not justified by the fruit we bear but instead we bear fruit because of faith, which faith is itself a gift of God.

"I would contend that the verse above refers not to working for or toward salvation, but to work out the remainder of your earthly life as a saved person should." -- theDevolutionist

So where does the fear and trembling come in? I am always taken aback by those who proudly, loudly, and most self-assuredly "Claim!" their salvation. As you mentioned and someone else pointed out, many will cry, "Lord! Lord!" and Jesus will reply, "I never knew you". And in Matthew 25 we see the dividing of the sheep and the goats and the goats seem baffled by Jesus' judgment.

Remember, Peter denied Christ three times over.

In the passages you site I think it important to place sufficient emphasis on what it means to believe - and believe in - Jesus. It's not a simple confession, but a life changing event that marks the beginning of a journey. We know that the Bible tells us that some fall back and do not make the cut. But you seem to be staking out a claim to "once saved always saved". That may be true if the "once" part is true salvation, i.e., a changed life that leads to a closer, and closer walk with Jesus. But as with Peter, doubting Thomas, and so many of us, the reality is we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

theDevolutionist · Mar 22, 2016

donfish06 said:
If you came to Christ, then something isn't right. The disciples didn't "go to" Christ, He went to them. "We haven't chosen Him, He has chosen us."

Personally, Christ came to me just like he came to the disciples. I was on my couch, not looking for Him, not even thinking about Him when He called me.

This seems a little off-topic (e.g. the weighty subject of predestination), though I would grant that it would have a large role in shaping our beliefs with respect to the current thread.

At least one disciple was recorded to have been brought to Christ by his brother (Peter). "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" for "how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent?" (Romans 10)

justrobin · Mar 22, 2016

Kenny'sID said:
We are not saved by works but that should never be confused with the fact we can be lost by the lack of them. Lack of honest attempt to keep Christs Commandments and to take care of the poor which is actually entailed in Jesus' Commandments (Love they brother as they self) and make no mistake that IS a "Commandment" and we all know what "Commandment" means...if we don't we should.

"If you love me you will keep my commandments."

And I guess I need to stick this over here too:

"Mathew 25:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

Everlasting punishment or Hell because they didn't do the "works" Christ told them to do. If there is any misunderstanding or you don't think he told us to do that, then read the verses again, he's telling you now.

******************
I don't need to read the verses again, I already know what it says. Also, please don't confuse my straightforward tone for being confrontational. I can be a bit blunt and like to get to the point, but it's all just in a conversational tone.

Okay, you seem to have a very Catholic reading of that passage. Can I suggest that you please read it again from the beginning. Firstly, the Lord separates HIS sheep from the goats. He then commends the sheep and condemns the goats. The passage finishes by saying that the RIGHTEOUS will go away into life eternal.

Please, please, don't try to tell me that you believe in works-based righteousness, because I know that we both know that that is NOT what scripture teaches.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Titus 3:5

Since we were never good ENOUGH to be saved in the first place (and never will be), is it truly your contention that we can then become undeserving of that which we didn't deserve to begin with?

The gospel of John tells us that Jesus gives HIS sheep eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish.

The problem today is that so many people who don't know Jesus and have never truly been born again, want to call themselves Christians. Churches are full of them. People who never truly repented to begin with, people who were never born again trusting in Jesus alone to save them.

If you don't think we are saved by works, how is it that you think not doing works can lose you your eternal destiny? (and does that mean that you need to be born again.....again?).

donfish06 · Mar 22, 2016

I believe a Christian's experience should line up with scripture. We are told at least 4 times that "many believed" Jesus in the book of John. After Jesus started preaching the Word, and they couldn't understand it, all of those many left. The only ones that stayed with Jesus are the ones that He chose. Am I saying that you are not saved? No, I don't even know anything about you except for that you came to God. Jesus said many are called, but few are chosen. To say that everyone comes to Christ because of a need is not true, and not scriptural. It might sound "hard," but what Jesus said to the Pharisees was also hard, and they hated Him for it. But He stuck to the Word, and they stuck to tradition.

It is a long story to tell to really show the whole picture, but He spoke to me in my heart, and instantly my desires and my world changed. I literally left everything to follow Him. I was in a stage where I thought everything outside of Church and the Word was "idolatry," so all I did was read the Bible before word, read it during my breaks, and read it until bed time. This went on for a couple months at least before I realized that I still had a life to live. But I see how it molded me and got me grounded in the Word. When I read of Jesus telling Peter to follow Him, I felt like it was the same thing that happened to me.

theDevolutionist · Mar 22, 2016

Caretaker said:
We seem to be mixing apples with oranges here, at least with regard to "works", which is more correctly understood as fruit. We are not justified by the fruit we bear but instead we bear fruit because of faith, which faith is in itself a gift of God.

"I would contend that the verse above refers not to working for or toward salvation, but to work out the remainder of your earthly life as a saved person should." -- theDevolutionist

So where does the fear and trembling come in? I am always taken aback by those who proudly, loudly, and most self-assuredly "Claim!" their salvation. As you mentioned and someone else pointed out, many will cry, "Lord! Lord!" and Jesus will reply, "I never knew you". And in Matthew 25 we see the dividing of the sheep and the goats and the goats seem baffled by Jesus' judgment.

Remember, Peter denied Christ three times over.

In the passages you site I think it important to place sufficient emphasis on what it means to believe - and believe in - Jesus. It's not a simple confession, but a life changing event that marks the beginning of a journey. We know that the Bible tells us that some fall back and do not make the cut. But you seem to be staking out a claim to "once saved always saved". That may be true if the "once" part is true salvation, i.e., a changed life that leads to a closer, and closer walk with Jesus. But as with Peter, doubting Thomas, and so many of us, the reality is we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Belief / faith is defined quite simply according to the common understanding in Hebrews 11:1 as confidence / assurance in / of the unseen. Jesus said that he who merely looks upon Him lifted up as the serpent in the wilderness shall be saved.

Only God can judge the heart. Could someone be lying about their faith? Sure, I guess. But the idea that a person can't know what they believe and what they trust (and thereby have assurance) is ridiculous.

Listen, I wouldn't tell the loved one of someone who has walked away from the faith, that they can be sure their loved one is saved because they walked an aisle or made a profession at some point. I (we) can only go by what a person is professing right now.

Neither would I dismiss a person who has walked away as temporarily prodigal. I don't know, so I would have to approach him as an unbeliever and greet him fresh with the Gospel. But neither would I try to judge a person's eternal state by some standard of conduct. Not even Paul did that. He didn't go around accusing people of false profession. He said things like "such you were, but now..." He exhorted. He didn't tear down with fear - "you might not be saved if you aren't / are doing X, Y or Z." He simply said, "Hey, that's your old life. Don't do that. Do this instead."

Too many people want to lord it over their brothers and sisters by using fear to impose some standard of behavior on them.

donfish06 · Mar 22, 2016

theDevolutionist said:
This seems a little off-topic (e.g. the weighty subject of predestination), though I would grant that it would have a large role in shaping our beliefs with respect to the current thread.

At least one disciple was recorded to have been brought to Christ by his brother (Peter). "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" for "how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent?" (Romans 10)

Matthew 4:18-20
And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

Jesus called Andrew

katerinah1947 · Mar 22, 2016

Extraneous said:
See, that's unwise because even Satan can transform himself into an angel of light. See 2 Corinthians 10-11. No wonder RCC seems to lack discernment, and seeks joining with Kenneth Copeland.

I always thought the thorns were the riches of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth. See the parable of the sower.

Hi,

Of course Satan can transform himself, as you said.

I did not tell you, the context, of when and how and why that happened.

It is also said, that those who Know me, know my voice. That Holy Spirit incident, was given to me, just after Jesus and His Dad, both spoke to me for a Christian who needed to know what to do next, for on the day his mother died, Jesus had appeared to him visually.

The Holy Spirit gave me the month and the day and the year that he saw Jesus. I asked for it, because he knew nothing about God, I did, and I was hoping to make his life better by giving him a more accurate idea of God.

Then, after stunning him beyond belief, and then me, for he told me the day that I gave him was the day his mother died, then after I was apologizing profusely, for being so arrogant as to believe any message given to me, in a faith manner from God, he finally said: "That was the day I saw Jesus"

With both of us now stunned, Jesus and God The Father, spoke in my right jaw socket the words to say to that boy.

I could not tell the boy that. But, I wondered, How is it that I know both God The Father's personal speaking voice, and Jesus Christ's personal speaking voice?

There was no time for contemplation. I just did and said what They were telling me to say to that boy.

That incident and others were submitted to the Roman Catholic Church for possible errors and Vehemently suspected heresy.

The Catholic Church through their assigned Spiritual Director, and the test given to me, similar in kind to that given by Gideon to God in the Bible, was actually answered by God, The Holy Spirit, to them by the Deuteronomy 18:20-22 accuracy and timing of the results, and as a result I am commanded to believe what I have said above, on Matthew 7:15-16, as :"I do this for a living this is The Holy Spirit" was the verdict handed down on that and the other items presented, for vehemently suspected heresy.

The short answer, is yes one should check all things to see if it was really God. You are right.

I did check.

LOVE,

Caretaker · Mar 22, 2016

With regard to the most recent exchange between KennysID and Justrobin, the mark of a true disciple of Christ is that a true disciple of Christ, i.e., those who truly love Jesus, will follow Jesus' commandments. When Jesus tells us that in John 14 he also makes sure we understand that the words did not originate with Jesus but instead came directly from the Father. That's how important it is to obey Jesus.

justrobin · Mar 22, 2016

Caretaker said:
We seem to be mixing apples with oranges here, at least with regard to "works", which is more correctly understood as fruit. We are not justified by the fruit we bear but instead we bear fruit because of faith, which faith is itself a gift of God.

"I would contend that the verse above refers not to working for or toward salvation, but to work out the remainder of your earthly life as a saved person should." -- theDevolutionist

So where does the fear and trembling come in? I am always taken aback by those who proudly, loudly, and most self-assuredly "Claim!" their salvation. As you mentioned and someone else pointed out, many will cry, "Lord! Lord!" and Jesus will reply, "I never knew you". And in Matthew 25 we see the dividing of the sheep and the goats and the goats seem baffled by Jesus' judgment.

Remember, Peter denied Christ three times over.

In the passages you site I think it important to place sufficient emphasis on what it means to believe - and believe in - Jesus. It's not a simple confession, but a life changing event that marks the beginning of a journey. We know that the Bible tells us that some fall back and do not make the cut. But you seem to be staking out a claim to "once saved always saved". That may be true if the "once" part is true salvation, i.e., a changed life that leads to a closer, and closer walk with Jesus. But as with Peter, doubting Thomas, and so many of us, the reality is we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

...why is it that people never quote the REST of that verse.
Sigh.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I am a firm believer in in once saved, always saved- provided someone is truly saved the begin with and is a true believer and not a make-believer.
Peter may have denied Christ among men, for fear, but he actually KNEW Christ...and Jesus knew him. There is a difference between this and people who really do NOT know Jesus and do not have a real relationship with him.

Extraneous · Mar 22, 2016

katerinah1947 said:
Hi,

Of course Satan can transform himself, as you said.

I did not tell you, the context, of when and how and why that happened.

It is also said, that those who Know me, know my voice. That Holy Spirit incident, was given to me, just after Jesus and His Dad, both spoke to me for a Christian who needed to know what to do next, for on the day his mother died, Jesus had appeared to him visually.

The Holy Spirit gave me the month and the day and the year that he saw Jesus. I asked for it, because he knew nothing about God, I did, and I was hoping to make his life better by giving him a more accurate idea of God.

Then, after stunning him beyond belief, and then me, for he told me the day that I gave him was the day his mother died, then after I was apologizing profusely, for being so arrogant as to believe any message given to me, in a faith manner from God, he he finally said: "That was the day I saw Jesus"

With both of us now stunned, Jesus and God The Father, spoke in my right jaw socket the words to say to that boy.

I could not tell the boy that. But, I wondered, How is it that I know both God The Father's personal speaking voice, and Jesus Christ's personal speaking voice?

There was no time for contemplation. I just did and said what They were telling me to say to that boy.

That incident and others were submitted to the Roman Catholic Church for possible errors and Vehemently suspected heresy.

The Catholic Church through their assigned Spiritual Director, and the test given to me, similar in kind to that given by Gideon to God in the Bible, was was actually answered by God, The Holy Spirit, to them by the Deuteronomy 18:20-22 accuracy and timing of the results, and as a result I am commanded to believe what I have said above, on Matthew 7:15-16, as :"I do this for a living this is The Holy Spirit" was the verdict handed down on that and the other items presented, for vehemently suspected heresy.

The short answer, is yes one should check all things to see if it was really God. You are right.

I did check.

LOVE,

The deceitfulness of wealth (sower parable) speaks of spiritual blindness perhaps. See Micah and Job. Micah refers to confusion, and Job mentions briers instead of wheat. Wheat is for bread, bread is Christ, who is light and truth. The leaven of pharisees is doctrine as well. I surely dont understand it all, and im continually learning, but i know one thing, beware of prosperity preachers. Jesus sure didnt waste any kind words on the money changers in the temple, and he actually broke out a whip and chased them out.

Micah 7:4 The best of them is like a briar, The most upright like a thorn hedge The day when you post your watchmen, Your punishment will come Then their confusion will occur.

Job 31:40 Let briars grow instead of wheat, And stinkweed instead of barley." The words of Job are ended.

Mathew 16:5 Now when His disciples had come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6 Then Jesus said to them, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.”

7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “It is because we have taken no bread.”

8 But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread?[c] 9 Do you not yet understand, or remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many baskets you took up? 10 Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up? 11 How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?—but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

1 Timothy 6:8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

theDevolutionist · Mar 22, 2016

donfish06 said:
Matthew 4:18-20
And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. And they straightway left their nets, and followed him.

Jesus called Andrew

One of the two who heard John speak, and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated, the Christ). And he brought him to Jesus. (John 1:40-42)

Andrew brought Peter to Jesus. BTW, this doesn't mean Jesus didn't call Peter. But Peter did apparently come to see Jesus on the word of his brother.

I think this underscores the importance of sharing the Gospel with our loved ones, then our neighbors, then the rest of the world. Since faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word about Christ, we never know if we might be the vehicle of that call.

Caretaker · Mar 22, 2016

justrobin said:
...why is it that people never quote the REST of that verse.
Sigh.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I am a firm believer in in once saved, always saved- provided someone is truly saved the begin with and is a true believer and not a make-believer.
Peter may have denied Christ among men, for fear, but he actually KNEW Christ...and Jesus knew him. There is a difference between this and people who really do NOT know Jesus and do not have a real relationship with him.

The problem here is we are not very good judges of ourselves with regard to whether or not we are "truly" saved. I prefer to continue to work out my salvation with fear and trembling, and I shudder when I hear someone proudly and loudly stake their "claim" to salvation, and especially so because so many of them proudly and loudly disobey Jesus on a regular basis.

justrobin · Mar 22, 2016

The Bible tells me that his Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of the Living God (by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone) and I am more than happy to proclaim that to anyone who will listen because my being saved is not about my own worthiness (because I will forever be unworthy) but about how Jesus is a great Saviour to save a wretch like me.
Can I ask you this- do you KNOW that you are saved? If you died right this moment, do you KNOW where you will spend eternity?

I do, and not because of my sinful (but forgiven) self, but because JESUS SAVES! And his is able to save to the uttermost them that come to him in faith.

donfish06 · Mar 22, 2016

justrobin said:
******************
Okay, you seem to have a very Catholic reading of that passage. Can I suggest that you please read it again from the beginning. Firstly, the Lord separates HIS sheep from the goats. He then commends the sheep and condemns the goats. The passage finishes by saying that the RIGHTEOUS will go away into life eternal.

****Disclaimer: I am not catholic, nor do I uphold any catholic dogmas or traditions as many protestants do.

That being said, the scripture does not say they are HIS sheep. For one, the word "his" was added by the writers, trying to help with the understanding. It was not in the original text. Secondly, it says that he will separate the nations AS a shepherd separates sheep from goats. It does not say that He will separate HIS sheep. This passage is referring to the white throne judgement, in which Jesus' sheep will not be judged, they will be judging with Christ:

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Those who enter into eternity here are certainly those who have done good... but it is not from just being good to anyone like Teresa of Calcutta thought. It is specifically being good to the true believers. It is the way God has always done it regarding His elect:

Genesis 12:2-3 (God's promise to Abraham) And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Mark 9:41-42 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. 42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

As well as the passage from Matthew 25 that has already been quoted. Those who have been born again bear the spirit of Christ, and make up the body of Christ. So of course, if someone blesses us, they are blessing Christ, which according to scripture, earns them a reward.

Being a Christian vs being Christ-like

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