Man arrested for 'peace' T-shirt

Today at 12:23 AM caley said this in Post #19

I would say that the security guards picked the fight in this case.


granted. However the point still stands. Since this man was not willing to take the loss to his "rights" and back down then what method is he suggesting that we use in the bigger scheme of things to make peace?
 
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caley

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Today at 11:38 PM bananaman said this in Post #21

granted. However the point still stands. Since this man was not willing to take the loss to his "rights" and back down then what method is he suggesting that we use in the bigger scheme of things to make peace?

um...passive resistance?
 
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Starscream

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Yesterday at 11:38 PM bananaman said this in Post #21

granted. However the point still stands. Since this man was not willing to take the loss to his "rights" and back down then what method is he suggesting that we use in the bigger scheme of things to make peace?

Who cares?  He has no obligation to provide any schemes to anyone - least of all to some security guard(s) on a power trip.

He was only wearing a t-shirt, a shirt that promoted peace - what's the big deal?
 
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seebs

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Yesterday at 11:38 PM bananaman said this in Post #21 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=693922#post693922)

granted. However the point still stands. Since this man was not willing to take the loss to his "rights" and back down then what method is he suggesting that we use in the bigger scheme of things to make peace?

He has no obligation to suggest something else. Until recently, this was a free country - you were allowed to express opinions critical of what the government was doing.
 
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Today at 02:02 AM seebs said this in Post #24

He has no obligation to suggest something else. Until recently, this was a free country - you were allowed to express opinions critical of what the government was doing.


I think perhaps you missed my point. Did you read all my posts? The one you quoted was in reference to earlier posts.The freedom you speak of is a "right" and it is asserted by force of law. It is one people fought to obtain in the past. without continued force those rights will be taken. he seems to be quite comfortable with that concept when it comes to his rights.

The point I made was he is all about his rights. That does not lead to peace but conflict. If he cant take the loss of his rights about  a t-shirt and simply walk away to make peace then it seems ridiculus to me to suggest he would be willing to make the larger sacrifices neccesary to walk away from the conflict in IRAQ.

 
 
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seebs

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I think you're *massively* missing the point.

Whether or not his position is a rational or tenable one, and no matter how those rights were obtained, he *did have those rights*. The rent-a-cops should be, IMHO, terminated-for-cause. Their behavior is utterly and totally beyond the pale. There is *NO* excuse for it. Kicking someone out of a mall for *wearing a t-shirt*? It wasn't like it was an offensive message, or anything. He even *bought* it there. This is so stunningly stupid and wrong as to make my head spin.
 
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JillLars

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We should take it easy on the rent-a-cops for now, I'm a rent-a-cop, and often times if there are instructions from higher-ups you follow them even if they are completely ridiculus. My guess is that the guards were probably instructed to ask anyone carrying signs, wearing clothes, ect. to further the peace movement to leave...even if he was just sitting there, sometimes its hard to use discretion when you're a measly security guard and could be fired if someone misinterpreted you not confronting the man to laziness or inability to follow instructions. But in this case, its gonna fall on the guards no matter what even if it isn't their faults...here's a little story unrelated, but tells the struggles of a security guard.

At my job there are certain times when guards go on "rounds" during this time the doors have to be locked at the entrance if we're not sitting there to watch it. So we lock the doors, go on our rounds like instructed too and get back to find parents waiting in the lobby to pick up their kids, they are furious that they had to wait 15 min. , so they complain to human resources, human resources yells at us. So in the future we wait and wait and wait until every parent has come to pick up their child...in the meantime we've missed the oppurtunity for an evening round, and then we get into trouble for missing a round...

Being a security guard for a large company, or a mall, is tough cause there's a lot of people to answer too, and the policies are changing all the time. Securiy guards aren't allowed to use discretion the same way law enforcement can, failure to enforce the rules will result in termination. There's no letting it slide...so in defense of the security guards, lets wait to hear the rest of the story. :)
 
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notto

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Police Report of the Arrest
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/doc_o_day/doc_o_day.shtml

Sounds like there might have been more going on than a t-shirt. The complaint suggests that the two men were stopping other shoppers and in a verbal confrontation with other mall patrons when security was alerted.
 
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Starscream

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Today at 04:26 AM JillLars said this in Post #29

We should take it easy on the rent-a-cops for now, I'm a rent-a-cop, and often times if there are instructions from higher-ups you follow them even if they are completely ridiculus. My guess is that the guards were probably instructed to ask anyone carrying signs, wearing clothes, ect. to further the peace movement to leave...even if he was just sitting there, sometimes its hard to use discretion when you're a measly security guard and could be fired if someone misinterpreted you not confronting the man to laziness or inability to follow instructions. But in this case, its gonna fall on the guards no matter what even if it isn't their faults...here's a little story unrelated, but tells the struggles of a security guard.

At my job there are certain times when guards go on "rounds" during this time the doors have to be locked at the entrance if we're not sitting there to watch it. So we lock the doors, go on our rounds like instructed too and get back to find parents waiting in the lobby to pick up their kids, they are furious that they had to wait 15 min. , so they complain to human resources, human resources yells at us. So in the future we wait and wait and wait until every parent has come to pick up their child...in the meantime we've missed the oppurtunity for an evening round, and then we get into trouble for missing a round...

Being a security guard for a large company, or a mall, is tough cause there's a lot of people to answer too, and the policies are changing all the time. Securiy guards aren't allowed to use discretion the same way law enforcement can, failure to enforce the rules will result in termination. There's no letting it slide...so in defense of the security guards, lets wait to hear the rest of the story. :)

Good point.
 
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caley

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Today at 04:26 AM JillLars said this in Post #29

We should take it easy on the rent-a-cops for now, I'm a rent-a-cop, and often times if there are instructions from higher-ups you follow them even if they are completely ridiculus. My guess is that the guards were probably instructed to ask anyone carrying signs, wearing clothes, ect. to further the peace movement to leave...even if he was just sitting there, sometimes its hard to use discretion when you're a measly security guard and could be fired if someone misinterpreted you not confronting the man to laziness or inability to follow instructions. But in this case, its gonna fall on the guards no matter what even if it isn't their faults...here's a little story unrelated, but tells the struggles of a security guard.

At my job there are certain times when guards go on "rounds" during this time the doors have to be locked at the entrance if we're not sitting there to watch it. So we lock the doors, go on our rounds like instructed too and get back to find parents waiting in the lobby to pick up their kids, they are furious that they had to wait 15 min. , so they complain to human resources, human resources yells at us. So in the future we wait and wait and wait until every parent has come to pick up their child...in the meantime we've missed the oppurtunity for an evening round, and then we get into trouble for missing a round...

Being a security guard for a large company, or a mall, is tough cause there's a lot of people to answer too, and the policies are changing all the time. Securiy guards aren't allowed to use discretion the same way law enforcement can, failure to enforce the rules will result in termination. There's no letting it slide...so in defense of the security guards, lets wait to hear the rest of the story. :)

Oh, I don't blame the rent-a-cops for their actions any more than I blame soldiers for fighting an unjust war.  My finger points to the ones calling the shots.
 
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