Anti-Christ European What is 666 (the mark of the beast?)

Matthew Twentyfour said:

From 1947 to 1991, there were FIVE popes.

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Matthew Twentyfour said:

From 1947 to 1991, there were SEVEN Russian presidents

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I'm guessing you also don't know that General Secretary and President are two different positions under the Soviet Constitution either, do you ? Malinkov never served as a General Secretary of the Soviet Union.

I guess you didn't notice I posted that Pope Pius XI signed the Treaty of Lateran creating the Vatican State. Thank you for the date correction, but the number of Popes who served the Vatican till 1991 remains SIX, not FIVE. So I will happily go back and change the statement so that it is correct. Anyway. The number remains 666, not 785 as your rather sloppy mishandling of historic fact indicates. At least I only got the one date wrong concerning Pope Pius XI. Which gives me an A minus in history, and you get like a D minus for knowing absolutely zero about how governments are structured under the Soviet, or Chinese Constitutions.

stephen583 said:

Douggg. Everyone knows six hundred, three score and six is the number 666 (Revelation 13:18). Everybody also knows it doesn't mean six hundred and sixty-six. It means six-six-six, 6-6-6, Three sixes. If you don't trust Bible Commentary on the subject, just ask any Satanist. In Satanic symbolism, the numbers aren't even arranged horizontally.. like a number six hundred and sixty six. They appear in a circular formation, with the base of the sixes at the center and the top of the six splayed outwards. Anyone who has seen satanic graffiti on a wall, is familiar with the symbol.

I've warned you what this number represents (extermination). So continue to prevaricate all you want, stick your head in the sand and ignore it if you want. I guarantee, that's exactly what Satan is banking on. He wants you to believe it's a secret code or cipher, although if it was, it would have been deciphered a long time ago. Supercomputers are used to break codes nowadays. The only way to make any sense out of it, is to interpret it biblically and break it down intro three sixes.

I revealed in post #41 exactly what these three sixes represent historically. Where and when they appear. I gave you names and dates, and I even counted them for you, exactly as the Scripture indicates they should have been counted. If that isn't good enough for you, well then, let it be so.

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stephen, the number of the beast is the number of his name. So what is the beast's name?

stephen583 said:

Nowhere in the Revelation prophecy does it say the Mark of the Beast can not be removed once it is taken. I read where people will be destroyed if they keep it, that's all.. Are you suggesting, even if people repent, God is going to destroy them anyway ??? I thought "God and all the angels in heaven rejoice when the wicked repent", (Luke 15:10, Ezek. 33:11) ?! Does your Bible read differently than mine ???

The Apostle Paul refers to those in Scripture, who are "Blessed and remain alive until the coming of the Lord", (1 Thessalonians 4:15). The Revelation itself speaks of the 144 thousand Jews who will be sealed during the Tribulation Period, (Revelation 7:4).

How do any of these Christians or Jews survive until the coming of the Lord, if our only choice is, take the mark, or die ??? Seems to me these verses contradict what you suppose to be an inescapable choice. Take the Mark, or Die.

Obviously, there's a problem with some of the assumptions you are making about the nature of the Mark of the Beast and what it's supposed to represent.

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The seal (mark of God) is placed on those who keep God's commandments, does not take the beast mark, who is faithful to God's law, who believes in his Son Jesus who died for them. All those who are his are not lost unless they were meant to be lost. God will use the mark of the best to draw the line in the sand, who are his people and who are not. Those who chose to refuse to believe in God's word and in Jesus despite the preaching of the Gospel and the proof that God's law is TRUTH will choose the mark of the beast. Their allegiance is with Satan, those who believe in God’s word, and accept his message will refuse the mark system and will be sealed with God’s name on their foreheads.

The angels will do this, mark all those who are EVIL with the beasts name and those who are God’s people will be marked with GOD’s name. Many will die for following Christ and refusing the system of the BEAST and some will be too afraid and will receive the mark of the beast instead. They are afraid to take up the cross! It’s not going to be easy at all even more so to those who are not yet saved! But GOD knows who will come to him in obedience and who will not!

MasterRich said:

The seal (mark of God) is placed on those who keep God's commandments, does not take the beast mark, who is faithful to God's law, who believes in his Son Jesus who died for them. All those who are his are not lost unless they were meant to be lost. God will use the mark of the best to draw the line in the sand, who are his people and who are not.

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Did it ever occur to you God doesn't have anything to do with what mankind does under Satan's influence ??? I guess accepting responsibility for our own actions is too foreign a concept for most people to wrap their heads around. Sure, why not lay it all off on God ?!!! I can see where that would be a very popular doctrine with the masses.

God forbid anyone take responsibility for creating the Mark of the Beast, or for taking it on themselves... For heavens sake, that might lead to something awful, like someone actually repenting for what they did !!!.. and wouldn't that be messed up ?!!!

stephen583 said:

Once someone receives the Mark of the Beast.. Can it be removed ?! There is nothing indicated in the Scripture that says the Mark of the Beast is permanent, (unless you die with it and you don't take the opportunity to repent while you're still living). The Scripture says the blood of Christ is sufficient to cover ALL sin. In fact, once you've accepted Christ, God will not even remember your sins. The Mark of the Beast, is nothing more than another form of sin. So, yes... According to Christian theology, the Mark of the Beast can be removed.

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Yes, coward christians may rcv the mark and then try to remove it later.
but first they WILL rebell AGAINST God's warning by taking the mark.
if you think you can play that game !.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

stephen583 said:

I'm guessing you also don't know that General Secretary and President are two different positions under the Soviet Constitution either, do you ?

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Here's the evidence. According to Wikipedia, after Stalin's death, Georgy Malenkov served as Premier, a "vice ruler" in a "duumvirate" government with Nakita Kruschev from 6 March-1953 until 8 February 1955. The office of Premier (Chairman of the Presedium of the Supreme Soviet which Malenkov held) has very little power and is largely a cerimonial position, because under the Soviet Constitution, supreme power rests in the hands of the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). [paragraph 3, under Premier of the Presedium, Wikipedia] .

After assuming the post of General Secretary of the Communist party, Nakita Kurschev had Malenkov expelled from the Communist Party and exiled to a remote location in the Republic of Kazakhstan, from which Malenkov never returned.

So the assertion Georgy Malenkov consolidated his power as a Stalinist dictator, or served as a General Secretary of the Communist Party (CPSU) is "a-historical" (meaning false historical revisionism). And the number of Stanlinist dictators from 1947 to 1991 remains SIX, not SEVEN.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.



1 Co 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Avoid Worldly Wisdom
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; [a] 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” 21 Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours. 23 And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.


Mathew 7:24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;

Revelation 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Matthew Twentyfour said:

From 1947 to 1991, there were EIGHT Chinese Chairmen.

1) Mao Zedong Sept 27, 1954 to April 27, 1959
2) Liu Shaoqi April 27, 1959 to Jan 3, 1965
3) Dong Biwu Feb 24, 1972 to Jan 17, 1975
4) Zhu De Jan 17, 1975 to July 6, 1976
5) Soong Ching-ling July 6, 1976 to March 5, 1978
6) Ye Jianying March 5, 1978 to June 18, 1983
7) Li Xiannian June 18, 1983 to April 8, 1988
8) Yang Shangkun April 8, 1988 to March 27, 1993

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China

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Under the Chinese Communist Constitution, the office of Chairman of the Chinese Communist party and President of China are two separate positions. So while being historically accurate, your statement about the number of people who held the office of Chairman between 1947 and 1991 is irrelevant to the number of people who served as President of China during the same time period, (which is the number I cited in post #41 explaining the number of the Beast).

As I mentioned earlier, this information can be confirmed with the Chinese Consulate, or you can simple google it on the internet and read it for yourself. Nevertheless, the number of Presidents of China, from 1947 to 1991 remains SIX not EIGHT.

Its my opinion that you dont need to calculate numbers to understand the beast. I believe that following politicians and worldliness is unwise. There is only one King and one Kingdom in Christ.

Extraneous said:

1 Co 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

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"When you therefore shall see the Abimination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand".. (Matthew 24:15, KJV).


Let Scripture interpret Scripture. The passage from 1 Corinthians 3:16 is the key to understanding the meaning of the prophecy in Matthew 24:15. The holy place referred to in Matthew 24:15 is not a physical temple or building, (a mythical reconstructed Third Jewish temple of Jerusalem), as has often been suggested here in CF by some of its' members. That interpretation clearly conflicts with Christian theology as stated in 1 Corinthians 3:16 which says, "The temple of God is within you" and is not constituted by any physical building or structure of any kind.

Therefore, there can only be one correct interpretation of Matthew 24:15. The Abomination of Desolation antichrist described in the prophecies of Daniel.. WILL BE A CHRISTIAN !!!.. Any other interpretation (about a mythical reconstructed Third Jewish Temple) violates the scriptural integrity of the New Testament and Christian theology.

The Antichrist WILL BE A CHRISTIAN !!!

stephen583 said:

"When you therefore shall see the Abimination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand".. (Matthew 24:15, KJV).


Let Scripture interpret Scripture. The passage from 1 Corinthians 3:16 is the key to understanding the meaning of the prophecy in Matthew 24:15. The holy place referred to in Matthew 24:15 is not a physical temple or building, (a mythical reconstructed Third Jewish temple of Jerusalem), as has often been suggested here in CF by some of its' members. That interpretation clearly conflicts with Christian theology as stated in 1 Corinthians 3:16 which says, "The temple of God is within you" and is not constituted by any physical building or structure of any kind.

Therefore, there can only be one correct interpretation of Matthew 24:15. The Abomination of Desolation antichrist described in the prophecies of Daniel.. WILL BE A CHRISTIAN !!!.. Any other interpretation (about a mythical reconstructed Third Jewish Temple) violates the scriptural integrity of the New Testament and Christian theology.

The Antichrist WILL BE A CHRISTIAN !!!

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Not that i have complete wisdom, but i tend to agree with you that the temple will not be a physical building.

Extraneous said:

Its my opinion that you dont need to calculate numbers to understand the beast. I believe that following politicians and worldliness is unwise.

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In Revelation 13:18 we are told to "count" the number of the beast", "for it is the number of a man".

"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep those things written therein:".. (Revelation 1:3).

stephen583 said:

In Revelation 13:18 we are told to "count" the number of the beast", "for it is the number of a man".

"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep those things written therein:".. (Revelation 1:3).

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Yes but what does that mean exactly? Will only 144,000 Jews be saved according to revelation? Does that number perhaps have another meaning? I dont know exactly, but i do think that if we follow the Lords apostles in the NT that we will not need to calculate numbers, just my opinion, i could be wrong but im putting my faith in the Lord here.

There seems to be much wisdom in all this scripture. Look at the keywords and ponder their meaning. Its my belief that its unwise to follow politicians, and even teachers in these last days, and its better to follow the sayings and commands of Christ and His apostles, obey them, and to meditate on them often.


Ephesians 5:14 Therefore He says:

“Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light.”
Walk in Wisdom
15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, 16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of God.[c]

31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”[e] 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.





Mathew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Mathew 6:22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

Mathew 13:24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way

Mathew 24:43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Mathew 24:45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’[g] 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Isaiah 29:9 Pause and wonder!
Blind yourselves and be blind!
They are drunk, but not with wine;
They stagger, but not with intoxicating drink.
10 For the Lord has poured out on you
The spirit of deep sleep,
And has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets;
And He has covered your heads, namely, the seers.

Revelation 19:9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Isaiah 50:9 Surely the Lord God will help Me;
Who is he who will condemn Me?
Indeed they will all grow old like a garment;
The moth will eat them up.

Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
And look on the earth beneath.
For the heavens will vanish away like smoke,
The earth will grow old like a garment,

“Listen to Me, you who know righteousness,
You people in whose heart is My law:
Do not fear the reproach of men,
Nor be afraid of their insults.
8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment,
And the worm will eat them like wool;

1 Thessalonians 5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

stephen583 said in post 56:

That's why the Scripture says, "except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved", (Matthew 24:22).

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Regarding Matthew 24:22, it, like Mark 13:20, can mean that all flesh on the earth would die if the Lord hadn't already shortened, as in "he hath shortened" (Mark 13:20b), the number of days of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. That is, the Lord could have already determined, from the beginning of Creation (cf. Isaiah 46:10), that he will return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). And the Lord will return "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), immediately after its final event, the worldwide destruction during the 7th vial (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6). So Mark 13:20 can mean that if the Lord hadn't shortened the number of days of the tribulation, all flesh on the earth would die during the 7th vial's aftermath, which could be a nuclear-winter scenario (which the Lord will miraculously prevent at his return) brought on by the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire nuking the cities of the nations at the 7th vial (Revelation 17:16-17a, Revelation 16:19).

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stephen583 said in post 71:

"When you therefore shall see the Abimination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand".. (Matthew 24:15, KJV).

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In Matthew 24:15, Jesus is referring to Daniel 11:31.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the 1st (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the 1st part of it antitypically, and the rest for the 1st and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

stephen583 said in post 71:

The passage from 1 Corinthians 3:16 is the key to understanding the meaning of the prophecy in Matthew 24:15.

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Note that while the church as a whole is indeed a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexisted with the literal, 2nd temple building which was in Jerusalem in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), just as the church coexisted, and still coexists today, with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' 1st coming (Matthew 23:21), and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That is why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God, because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6), because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

stephen583 said in post 71:

The Antichrist WILL BE A CHRISTIAN !!!

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Note that nothing requires that, in the sense of a Biblical Christian.

But Biblical Christians do need to be aware that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will consciously and openly worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, he isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that he is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' 2nd coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (of Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' 2nd coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus returned. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is important to know when and how the real Jesus' 2nd coming will happen (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), whereas Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the 1st book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH, and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). But Satan might not be worshipped as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could falsely say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind. And he could claim that even 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together prove this by showing that it was the single entity of YHWH/Satan who moved David to number Israel. Of course, the truth is that 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together simply show that YHWH used Satan to move David. YHWH elsewhere rebuked Satan (Zechariah 3:2), so they are in no way the same entity.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the unsaved world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could falsely say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself only with the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as YHWH God (the Son) along with YHWH God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

So the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ will be a total shock to the world. The world will have been expecting to wage war against some evil Old Testament god named "YHWH" with the help of the good Jesus (played by the False Prophet) and with the help of the true and beneficent Christ/God (played by Lucifer) and with the help of the good Son of God (played by the Antichrist) and with the help of the good angels of God (played by the fallen angels of Lucifer: Revelation 12:9). But then instead of some evil god appearing in the sky, the world could see the glorious sign of the Cross (cf. Matthew 24:30), the symbol of the good YHWH suffering and dying for our sins (Acts 20:28b). And then the world will see the glorious appearance of the real Jesus, sitting on a white horse descending from the sky (Revelation 19:11-21).

When the people of the world realize at that moment how thoroughly they have been duped, and see in the sky the huge angelic armies (2 Thessalonians 1:7, Matthew 25:31) of the true Jesus, the true Christ, the true Son of God, and the good YHWH, who are all the one and the same Jesus Christ of Nazareth, they could utterly mourn and wail for themselves (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7), knowing in their spirits that Jesus has returned in wrath to destroy most of them for their unrepentant sins (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, Revelation 19:15-21).

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stephen583 said in post 73:

In Revelation 13:18 we are told to "count" the number of the beast", "for it is the number of a man".

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That's right.

And in Revelation 13:18, the original Greek word (psephizo: G5585) translated as "count" means to enumerate, to add up, like someone should "count (psephizo) the cost" (Luke 14:28), add up the cost, of building a tower before he starts building it, so he can make sure that he has enough money to finish it, and won't be mocked by people if he runs out of money after laying only the tower's foundation (Luke 14:28-30).

Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) said "this number [666] being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of Revelation], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six" (Against Heresies 5:30:1). This mode of calculation, or method of gematria, is the same in the Greek alphabet, the Hebrew alphabet, the English alphabet, and any other alphabet: the first nine letters in the alphabet are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet.

So the gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. And the way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).

Douggg said in post 57:

It is not three 6's, side beside, as 666.

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That's right.

The "666" in Revelation 13:17c-18, in the original Greek Textus Receptus, isn't a trilogy of sixes ("6-6-6"), but 3 different Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma), the gematrial values of which (600, 60, and 6) must be added together to arrive at the total number (six hundred and sixty-six) which we represent today in decimal notation and Arabic numerals as 666. Before the West adopted decimal notation and Arabic numerals, the West used Roman numerals, in which the number six hundred and sixty-six was represented by DCLXVI.

Extraneous said in post 74:

Will only 144,000 Jews be saved according to revelation? Does that number perhaps have another meaning?

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The number 144,000 in Revelation 7:4 and Revelation 14:1,3 will be a literal number of people, which will consist of literally 12 groups with literally 12,000 people in each group (Revelation 7:5-8). Similarly, the 144,000 will be literal male virgins, never having had intercourse with women (Revelation 14:4), just as, for example, 1 Corinthians 7:25 refers to literal virgins.

But while at the future point in time of Revelation 7:2-4, only the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church (Revelation 14:1,4) will be sealed for physical protection, all obedient people in the church will still be spiritually protected during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). Also, before Revelation 7:2-4 happens, the 144,000, along with some others, will be physically protected so that they will survive the tribulation's 1st stage (in Revelation 6), while others will die and their souls will enter heaven (Revelation 7:9,14). It is near the end of this 1st stage that the 144,000 will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection before the unsealing of the 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). The first 6 trumpets' events, up to Revelation 9:19, will be the tribulation's 2nd stage. The seal which the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of the Holy Spirit himself which they and all others in the church receive: Ephesians 1:13) will physically protect them during this 2nd stage (Revelation 9:4).

After this 2nd stage, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up in their mortal bodies as the "man child" to God's throne in heaven (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 14:4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1). Right after the 144,000 are caught up, the tribulation's 3rd stage, the literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will begin (Revelation 12:5-6). This time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13).

The 144,000 will remain in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, Textus Receptus) during the time of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-18), while 2 other parts of the church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents those in the church who will flee into prepared wilderness places and be physically protected (Revelation 12:6,14-16); and the remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17), those in the church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

After the Antichrist's reign is declared legally over at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). These vials (Revelation 16) will be the tribulation's 4th and final stage. Because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of these vials will be directed at those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). So some in the church will survive the entire future tribulation on the earth. They are those who will still be "alive and remain" at Jesus' 2nd coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (Psalms 91) without having to have been part of the 144,000.

stephen583 said:

In Revelation 13:18 we are told to "count" the number of the beast", "for it is the number of a man".

"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep those things written therein:".. (Revelation 1:3).

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17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

stephen, what is the name of the beast?

Douggg said:

stephen, the number of the beast is the number of his name. So what is the beast's name?

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There are those who call me Tim .....

Anguspure said:

There are those who call me Tim .....

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I don't get it?