By his stripes we were healed

swordsman1

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Isaiah 53: 3--5.
V3, Jesus was a man of sorrows, [Hebrew]Pains, and acquainted with Grief, [HEB, SICKNESS.
V4 SURELY Jesus HAS borne our pains and sicknesses.
V5, By His stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53 is nothing to do with physical healing from illness, it is talking about spiritual healing from sin. The context makes that absolutely clear. It is all about Christ suffering for the sins of his people.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
8 For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
11 by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.



Then you come to v17, and it quotes Isaiah 53: 4.
1 Pet 2: 24, also quotes Isaiah 53: 5, The Greek word for "Healed" in 1 Pet 2: 24, is used about 28 times in the New Testament, and every time it's divine healing for the PHYSICAL BODY.

Seeing as Peter is quoting from Isaiah 53:5, it would be better to do a study of the Hebrew word for 'healed' (רָפָא) and see how it is used in the rest of the OT. As you can see it is often used to refer to healing from sin:

2 Chronicles 30 "But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, “May the Lord, who is good, pardon everyone who sets their heart on seeking God—the Lord, the God of their ancestors—even if they are not clean according to the rules of the sanctuary.” And the Lord heard Hezekiah and healed the people."

(Hezekiah prayed for the people to be pardoned from their sin, not to be healed from illness.)​

Isaiah 57:17-18 "I was enraged by their sinful greed; I punished them, and hid my face in anger, yet they kept on in their willful ways. I have seen their ways, but I will heal them;"

Jeremiah 3:21-22 "A cry is heard on the barren heights, the weeping and pleading of the people of Israel, because they have perverted their ways and have forgotten the Lord their God. “Return, faithless people; I will heal you of backsliding.”

Jeremiah 33:5-6 "I will hide my face from this city because of all its wickedness. Nevertheless, I will bring health and healing to it; I will heal my people and will let them enjoy abundant peace and security. I will bring Judah and Israel back from captivity and will rebuild them as they were before. I will cleanse them from all the sin they have committed against me and will forgive all their sins of rebellion against me."

Hosea 14:1-4 "Return, Israel, to the Lord your God. Your sins have been your downfall! Take words with you and return to the Lord. Say to him: “Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips....“I will heal their waywardness and love them freely, for my anger has turned away from them."


Miracles and healings are just for the Apostles, Jesus said EVERY BELIEVER will do signs Mk 16: 17--18. And Jesus said EVERYONE who believes, will do the same works that He did, Jn 14: 12.

The list of abilities given in Mark 16:17 were normative only for the apostolic age, not for today. Where today do you see people drinking poison or getting bitten by deadly snakes without being harmed? (although Paul was certainly bitten by deadly snakes in Acts 28:4). Those abilities are described as 'signs' in Mark 16:17 (to draw attention and authenticate the new gospel ministry and it's messengers).

John 14:12 doesn't mean that all believers can expect to perform miracles the like of what Jesus did. How can we raise the dead, calm storms, walk on water, feed 5000, turn water into wine, etc, let alone greater things as the verse says? Not even the Apostles did anything like that. Furthermore scripture says the gifts of miracles and healing was only given to a select few, not every believer (1 Cor 12:29-30). The 'works' Jesus is referring to is not his miracles but most likely loving others, witnessing, and spreading the gospel. And indeed believers throughout the centuries have brought far more people to salvation than Jesus did when he walked on earth.
 
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razzelflabben

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Did I say that we have to always be comfortable in our flesh in order to be in a right relationship with God?
No, I didn't
But I WILL enlighten you to a major paradigm shift, should you choose to consider it.
Jesus is the one who told us to pray that HIS will be done on earth
AS IT IS IN HEAVEN
Now,.. is there illness sickness and disease in Heaven?
No.
So we're praying for that same thing to be done here on earth.
If GOD told us to pray that way, then we can see what God "wills" for us.
Scripture does not say that His "WILL" is for man to be without sickness or disease, in fact, scripture tells us time and time again that Gods will, His purpose will not be thwart. So if HIs will was no sickness and disease, it would not be happening here on this earth. Rather, sickness and disease are tools so to speak, that is to say, they are to serve as reminders to us of the righteousness we are called into and the sin we are called out of. In fact, this idea goes all the way back to the curse of man in Gen.
 
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razzelflabben

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What it 'actually' means is that God still heals
No amount of twisting Scripture is going to change that.
I'm not sure that saying, "God still heals" is the same as saying "God heals everyone who has enough faith" or "God's will is to heal everyone" or some other version thereof. IOW's I do believe that God heals and that that healing is sometimes the flesh but always the spiritual healing that is promised to all who believe unto salvation.
 
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sunlover1

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not sure I like the attitude coming from this, but what I am suggesting is that it is a judgment much like we see in Gen. in the garden when Adam and Eve sinned. The death spoken of was both physical and spiritual, the spiritual was immediate, the physical death had begun but was not completed at that time. Seems to me the same applies here. Not sure why that suggestion should cause a stir, but so be it.
No "attitude" or "stir", Just disagreement.
Even the Bible scholars disagree with your understanding. Click here
 
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razzelflabben

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Some say one and some say another.
Then evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed;
and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.
17This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet:

"HE HIMSELF TOOK OUR INFIRMITIES AND CARRIED AWAY OUR DISEASES."
Doesn't matter because we're "healed" spiritually and physically by God.
Either way, Jesus always (physically) healed those who came to Him,
and He being God, never changes!
ASK, He said, and it shall be given.
He said that it was His Father's GOOD PLEASUrE to give us the Kingdom.
No matter how you dice it, GOD says that if we are sick He WILL heal us.
as pointed out previously, in the earthly ministry of Christ, it was necessary for Christ to reveal to the people who He was, He did this through the "signs and wonders". I was challenged on this and so I asked for the scripture that challenged what I said and there was none given, which suggests that is because the claim that was made as a challenge was false. But here is something that if I was in your camp of belief I would find very disturbing....Matthew 7:22 and 2 Thessalonians 2:9, Matthew 24:24; Revelation 13:11-15 and others. Especially since the resurrection of Christ, we need to exercise both caution and spiritual discernment when it comes to the signs and wonders, among which is healing.
 
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sunlover1

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Scripture does not say that His "WILL" is for man to be without sickness or disease, in fact, scripture tells us time and time again that Gods will, His purpose will not be thwart. So if HIs will was no sickness and disease, it would not be happening here on this earth. Rather, sickness and disease are tools so to speak, that is to say, they are to serve as reminders to us of the righteousness we are called into and the sin we are called out of. In fact, this idea goes all the way back to the curse of man in Gen.
If God told us to pray thus:
"Let your will be done on earth, AS IT IS in Heaven"
Then yes, it does say that it's His Will for man to be without sickness or disease.

He's let us know that in Heaven, there IS no sickness.
If He wants us to pray (and thus 'expect') that His will be done here just as it is already in Heaven
then we are praying for all of those things you'd find in Heaven, love, peace, joy, health, etc.
But we're not praying that, because we don't bother to get to know His Ways.
GOD came to bring life..
EVERY TIME
It's the thief that came not but to kill, steal, destroy.
the devil doesn't heal
and the Father doesn't injure
 
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sunlover1

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as pointed out previously, in the earthly ministry of Christ, it was necessary for Christ to reveal to the people who He was, He did this through the "signs and wonders". I was challenged on this and so I asked for the scripture that challenged what I said and there was none given, which suggests that is because the claim that was made as a challenge was false. But here is something that if I was in your camp of belief I would find very disturbing....Matthew 7:22 and 2 Thessalonians 2:9, Matthew 24:24; Revelation 13:11-15 and others. Especially since the resurrection of Christ, we need to exercise both caution and spiritual discernment when it comes to the signs and wonders, among which is healing.
The devil will try to show off and outdo God in signs and wonders so we should what??
What did God do in the OT when the magicians tried to outdo Him?
His snake ate theirs!
No, I don't find it disturbing that the devil continues to act like the devil,
and the only 'camp" I'm in is the Bible believers camp ;)
He said it and I just believe it. He HEALS His kids because He has compassion
on us and mostly, because He's JUST. God is not going to SAY that He will do
something, and then turn around and MAYBE or MAYBE NOT, do that thing.
 
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razzelflabben

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No "attitude" or "stir", Just disagreement.
Even the Bible scholars disagree with your understanding. Click here
Disagreement does not have to come across as hostile....and just for the record, that passage does NOT counter what I have said, in fact, it supports it....but if you want to talk about that passage, tell me how many healing services you have been part of in which both the one needing healing and the "righteous man" who is praying for healing confess their sins one to another before asking for healing, cause that is how scripture tells us to pray for the sick.
 
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sunlover1

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Disagreement does not have to come across as hostile
Stop with the ad homs. I have done nothing of the sort, I don't become "hostile" ever.

....and just for the record, that passage does NOT counter what I have said, in fact, it supports it....
The commentaries at the bottom of the page say it all.

but if you want to talk about that passage, tell me how many healing services you have been part of in which both the one needing healing and the "righteous man" who is praying for healing confess their sins one to another before asking for healing, cause that is how scripture tells us to pray for the sick.
Doesn't matter what I've seen or haven't seen...
God does what He says He will.
End of story.
 
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Extraneous

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No "attitude" or "stir", Just disagreement.
Even the Bible scholars disagree with your understanding. Click here

That commentary you provided says that the judgments are spiritual, not physical.

No doubt such incur great guilt, and so render themselves liable to spiritual judgements. But fearful believers should not be discouraged from attending at this holy ordinance. The Holy Spirit never caused this scripture to be written to deter serious Christians from their duty, though the devil has often made this use of it. The apostle was addressing Christians, and warning them to beware of the temporal judgements with which God chastised his offending servants

http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-30.htm
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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People who say "Your not healed because your still in sin or don't pray hard enough!" are in sin themselves for judgment and twisted Gods Word. When I was born I had to have tear duct surgery and became a severe asthmatic on top of that. Does this mean I was in sin? No. I've had other health issues pop up in my life like seizures, a traumatic brain injury, now a dead kidney. Is this because I sin? No. Though I was into video gaming, but Gods not like "You played a video game?!? I shall give you a seizure!!!!". Thats not God.

The problem with people who say such things is they can't explain why they get something like a cold. Or why they get sick as they age. Or why they die. After all if you are healed then your body would not die right? Because an aging body is "sick" so to speak. Also What they say would go against the Bible when it says we will have trials in our lifes, adversities...etc. Being sick is a trial, being disabled is a trial. Maybe it will go away, maybe it won't. If you lose a limb its not going to magically grow back. Now does this mean we can't pray for healing? Of course it doens't. We should still pray and have hope. But if we don't get healed it doesn't mean we are doing anything wrong, its just means its not the time yet or we are sick because God has a plan. Me? I was mad at God for years after my seizures and life of sickness. It wasn't until later when I got close to Him again that I realized by me being disabled, I have been able to help others who struggle as christians and in general. I can give them inspiration.

Alot of christians I have met and find out my story are like "I don't know if I could still believe or love God if I went through what you did!". One person said "If I had to deal with what you have, I would have killed myself!". These are all christians who said this stuff. So apparently I am strong because God has given me strength to be a light in the darkness with my disabilities. And I am also very understanding, patient, empathetic...etc. I thank God for my trials because I may have not been who I am today if not for them!
 
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Extraneous

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Disagreement does not have to come across as hostile....and just for the record, that passage does NOT counter what I have said, in fact, it supports it....but if you want to talk about that passage, tell me how many healing services you have been part of in which both the one needing healing and the "righteous man" who is praying for healing confess their sins one to another before asking for healing, cause that is how scripture tells us to pray for the sick.

Not want to argue this point, because i really don't know, but i wonder if this scripture isn't also talking about sin rather than actual physical illness. Either way however, even if it is speaking of actual physical illness, then its the faith of the elders which heals the "sick", so it doesn't seem to put that burden onto the sick person, and so this contradicts what Word of Faith people have said about being healed by the stripes of Christ.


James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
 
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razzelflabben

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If God told us to pray thus:
"Let your will be done on earth, AS IT IS in Heaven"

Then yes, it does say that it's His Will for man to be without sickness or disease.
show me one passage, I'll take just one in which it says that God's will for mankind is to never suffer disease or illness. Now, remember, the rules of the game are 1. you cannot post passages that talk about spiritual healing and apply physical healing to it, 2. it has to show the "will" of God not something God did, and 3. it has to be a passage that can be supported by other passages.

You see, the rules are there because 1. people twist scripture and 2. because it doesn't say that God's will in heaven is no sickness, it says that God's will in heaven is that we would be in His presences, a reconciled people. IOW's free from the curse of sin. It is the curse of sin that causes man to be sick and until this world is reconciled to God, all those in this world will know sickness and disease. So, when then will this world be reconciled to Christ? Because that is when sickness and death will end according to God's will?

Now, here is another problem I have with what you are claiming if it is God's will that we would not be sick, then way did He allow sickness to enter our world?
He's let us know that in Heaven, there IS no sickness.
yes, that is the result of sin not being allowed into heaven...you know, the consequence of a sin free world, something that we don't have here on earth.
If He wants us to pray (and thus 'expect') that His will be done here just as it is already in Heaven
then we are praying for all of those things you'd find in Heaven, love, peace, joy, health, etc.
you mean, the spiritual healing that we receive when we follow the HS? You know, the fruit of the Spirit....it seems you are confusing the fruit of the spirit with the consequences of sin and righteousness.
But we're not praying that, because we don't bother to get to know His Ways.
as I said, you seem to be confusing two things....which explains a lot.
GOD came to bring life..
EVERY TIME
It's the thief that came not but to kill, steal, destroy.
yep, spiritual life.
the devil doesn't heal
and the Father doesn't injure
scripture says that satan is given power to preform signs and wonders and healing is listed among the signs and wonders, in addition Rev. talks about the beast healing from a fatal wound, in addition, Matt. tells us that not everyone who in this case healed is a believer. Seems to me that some people should heed the scriptural warnings. Of course to be fair, those who believe that God no longer preforms fleshly miracles need to take a second look at scripture as well. The bottom line is that where God still preforms miracles, not all miracles are from God and not all sickness is His will to heal. The truth is somewhere between the extremes we try to convince ourselves of.
 
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sunlover1

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That commentary you provided says that the judgments are spiritual, not physical.



http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-30.htm
There were several commentaries.
Most of them leaned toward physical.
See how it's NOT so cut and dried as you keep posting?
But we have the entire Bible to read and find truth.
God still heals if we ask and believe.
Is there more to it than that? Certainly is!
 
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razzelflabben

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The devil will try to show off and outdo God in signs and wonders so we should what??
follow scripture when it says to test the spirits to see if they are from God or not....duh, that was right there in the passage presented.
What did God do in the OT when the magicians tried to outdo Him?
His snake ate theirs!
No, I don't find it disturbing that the devil continues to act like the devil,
and the only 'camp" I'm in is the Bible believers camp ;)
see, this is funny, cause both sides claim the same thing but neither side hears the other. How do you not see this? How do you not see that you are not listening to the other side, a side that shows you a middle ground that is consistent with the totality of scripture?
He said it and I just believe it. He HEALS His kids because He has compassion
on us and mostly, because He's JUST. God is not going to SAY that He will do
something, and then turn around and MAYBE or MAYBE NOT, do that thing.
okay, let's try this another way, I've been talking about it, but maybe a more direct approach....let's go back to Gen. where does sickness, disease, suffering of all kinds come from?

After you answer that, we will move on...as you answer it, please keep in mind that I am NOT saying God doesn't heal our flesh only that it is not a guarantee in scripture that HE will always heal our flesh
 
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Extraneous

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People who say "Your not healed because your still in sin or don't pray hard enough!" are in sin themselves for judgment and twisted Gods Word. When I was born I had to have tear duct surgery and became a severe asthmatic on top of that. Does this mean I was in sin? No. I've had other health issues pop up in my life like seizures, a traumatic brain injury, now a dead kidney. Is this because I sin? No. Though I was into video gaming, but Gods not like "You played a video game?!? I shall give you a seizure!!!!". Thats not God.

The problem with people who say such things is they can't explain why they get something like a cold. Or why they get sick as they age. Or why they die. After all if you are healed then your body would not die right? Because an aging body is "sick" so to speak. Also What they say would go against the Bible when it says we will have trials in our lifes, adversities...etc. Being sick is a trial, being disabled is a trial. Maybe it will go away, maybe it won't. If you lose a limb its not going to magically grow back. Now does this mean we can't pray for healing? Of course it doens't. We should still pray and have hope. But if we don't get healed it doesn't mean we are doing anything wrong, its just means its not the time yet or we are sick because God has a plan. Me? I was mad at God for years after my seizures and life of sickness. It wasn't until later when I got close to Him again that I realized by me being disabled, I have been able to help others who struggle as christians and in general. I can give them inspiration.

Alot of christians I have met and find out my story are like "I don't know if I could still believe or love God if I went through what you did!". One person said "If I had to deal with what you have, I would have killed myself!". These are all christians who said this stuff. So apparently I am strong because God has given me strength to be a light in the darkness with my disabilities. And I am also very understanding, patient, empathetic...etc. I thank God for my trials because I may have not been who I am today if not for them!

I have physical problems as well, they come more frequently as we get older. I suffered from depression and believed for healing for a very long time, but it only got worse because i blamed myself for not having faith. IT was when i followed paul's example of enduring suffering that i found help for it. IT didn't disappear, but i found a way to manage it much better. It took a long time to learn, but eventually i did learn. THis isnt miraculous healing, its more like trusting God, that nothing can separate me from his love, not even depression. I still have many battles, but without this understanding i would be lost in that horrible pit i was in before. It has brought me closer to the Lord, and to living each day, relying on the Lord one day at a time.
 
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Extraneous

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There were several commentaries.
Most of them leaned toward physical.
See how it's NOT so cut and dried as you keep posting?
But we have the entire Bible to read and find truth.
God still heals if we ask and believe.
Is there more to it than that? Certainly is!

I only looked at the one you posted. I read commentaries on the stripes of Christ, and they all mentioned spiritual, not physical.
 
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swordsman1

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If God told us to pray thus:
"Let your will be done on earth, AS IT IS in Heaven"
Then yes, it does say that it's His Will for man to be without sickness or disease.

He's let us know that in Heaven, there IS no sickness.

Neither is there marriage in Heaven. Does that mean it is God's will for us not to marry here on earth?
Neither is there childbirth in heaven. Does that mean it is God's will for no children to be born here on earth?
Neither is there any killing in heaven. Does that mean it is God's will for animals (and us) not to kill and eat meat?
Neither is there aging in heaven. Does that mean it is God's will for us not to grow old here on earth?
Neither is there a language barrier in heaven. Does that mean it is God's will for us to speak a single language here on earth?
 
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razzelflabben

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Not want to argue this point, because i really don't know, but i wonder if this scripture isn't also talking about sin rather than actual physical illness. Either way however, even if it is speaking of actual physical illness, then its the faith of the elders which heals the "sick", so it doesn't seem to put that burden onto the sick person, and so this contradicts what Word of Faith people have said about being healed by the stripes of Christ.


James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
the way I read it, it is confession of both, but that goes back to totality of scripture so I won't argue it here, but yes, to your point.
 
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Extraneous

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the way I read it, it is confession of both, but that goes back to totality of scripture so I won't argue it here, but yes, to your point.

It bothers me that some people ignore this James scripture, and then go around judging people who are sick, accusing them of having weak faith. That actually makes it harder on a sick person, because then the accuser comes into our mind, accusing us of having no faith, and it wars against Gods grace which is what we need most in times like that, i believe anyway. I believe its better to allow Gods grace to sustain us when we are sick, rather than to allow people to accuse us, and tear down our faith in the process. If these people are so faith filled then let their faith heal people, and let them not accuse others of lacking faith. Let them instead question their own faith.
 
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