I think we can agree that you are lying, or you did not read the post, or you skimmed the post at best, or else you did not understand the argument.
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Satan and errors in scripture
- Thread starter Nihilist Virus
- Start date
I think we can agree that you are lying, or you did not read the post, or you skimmed the post at best, or else you did not understand the argument.
What is the point of your post? Is it if man corrupted the bible or Satan? Make up your mind and stop the dancing around the topic. We have discussed at length about man "corrupting" the bible and yet you were not satisfied. I bring Satan into the topic and you accuse me of dishonesty? Do you even want to discuss the corruption of the bible or is there another hidden point that you are trying to discuss.
From my understanding, this was the focus of your OP and that horse has been beaten to a pulp all over this thread. Yet you are still whining about how nobody is answering the OP.
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From the outset it's been that man is known to have corrupted the Bible without wanting to, and since Satan wants to corrupt the Bible and is more powerful/intelligent than us it follows that he must've been able to corrupt the Bible at least as much as man.
This would obviously be a massive death blow for Christianity, so in reversing that conclusion I show that the fourth premise is missing. The only conclusion I can come up with is that God allows the scribes to create errors (against their own will) and yet takes the effort to prevent Satan from inserting errors. I find this to be a bizarre line of action by God, and I'm asking why he doesn't just prevent all corruption outright.
Man corrupting the Bible is not the topic. That is only the fact that I'm leveraging in order to make my point. It's as if I'm trying to show that the earth is not flat, and in doing this I start off by talking about seasons and then you all act as though seasons are the topic of discussion.
When you finally brought Satan into the topic you misquoted me so badly that you were patently wrong, and one of the possibilities I pointed out was that you are lying.
You're free to not answer. Conversation with you has already become so pointless that I filter it by default. That hasn't changed and the thumb is not getting any closer to being upright.
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In that case you must first explain what christian doctrine has been corrupted as a result of "corruption" of the bible.From the outset it's been that man is known to have corrupted the Bible without wanting to, and since Satan wants to corrupt the Bible and is more powerful/intelligent than us it follows that he must've been able to corrupt the Bible at least as much as man.
This would obviously be a massive death blow for Christianity, so in reversing that conclusion I show that the fourth premise is missing. The only conclusion I can come up with is that God allows the scribes to create errors (against their own will) and yet takes the effort to prevent Satan from inserting errors. I find this to be a bizarre line of action by God, and I'm asking why he doesn't just prevent all corruption outright.
Man corrupting the Bible is not the topic. That is only the fact that I'm leveraging in order to make my point. It's as if I'm trying to show that the earth is not flat, and in doing this I start off by talking about seasons and then you all act as though seasons are the topic of discussion.
When you finally brought Satan into the topic you misquoted me so badly that you were patently wrong, and one of the possibilities I pointed out was that you are lying.
You're free to not answer. Conversation with you has already become so pointless that I filter it by default. That hasn't changed and the thumb is not getting any closer to being upright.
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No I don't. If one jot or one tittle has been corrupted, it puts everything in doubt. I think it's you who has to show that God has a filtering algorithm wherein he allows "nonessential" things (somehow things which he has taken the effort to list twice in his holy book are often labeled "nonessential" by Christians) to be corrupted and yet does not allow "essential" doctrines to be corrupted (even though many of them are listed only once and hence if there is a scribal error then we will never know).
Also, cloudyday2 made the thread where he shows that John 7:53 and John 8:1-11 is a forgery, so you cannot preclude the possibility that Satan inserted it. After all, it encourages a lack of accountability for sins.
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First, you must explain your dishonesty as addressed in post #38 before anyone can give enough credibility and trust in your integrity to carry the discussion any further.
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Tawhano is a confirmed liar. I will present the evidence upon request. So how about you read all of my posts and all of his posts on this thread and you tell me how I'm being dishonest. If not, I don't care. Bye.
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Please don’t call out or make accusations against posters.
Where were you when Tawhano was insulting me left and right?
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You act confused here as if Aryeh Jay was clearly talking to us both. Yet when he chastised me you gave it a like.
Or are you liking his idea of not calling anyone out, even if it's directed at you? Then perhaps answer the contents of the OP and stop dancing around.
Because from the top down on page 2 here you've been getting your muel handed to you and your final grasp at straws is claiming I'm dishonest because that other guy said so when the fact of the matter is that he was dragging the conversation off topic and then snipping my quotes, and even after all that his accusation of dishonesty was a complete fabrication. To top it off, he forces a false dichotomy: he seems to think that a change in the text and the text becoming less valuable are mutually exclusive, a shamelessly stupid thing to say if the words are supposed to be divine. I said that the text, if changed, is automatically less valuable, and he concluded that I lied because I initially said that the text was changed. Tawhano displays a furious dedication to lying, hypocrisy, and bizarre claims the likes of which I have never seen in all my days on this earth.
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I liked the post because the poster was correct. The accusations on both ends need to stop. It was a way of showing that I agreed with the statement and I will obey. Nothing more. However, your chastisement was a result of your argument of the post #51. You told him that you did not believe the explanation. Thus, you ironically accused the mod of dishonesty. I liked the posts because I felt the post was justified. You are not a victim so don't feel like you are.
I was wrong to call you dishonest. I apologize.
I would also like to add the the post in question #47 clearly shows both of us throwing accusations of dishonesty. The mod was directing his attention to that post and thus to the both of us.
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I'm not claiming to be a victim.
He's not a mod.
I still don't believe him.
I accept your apology.
Now please do one of the following:
1. Admit that Satan has corrupted the Bible, and we'll take it from there
2. Give a sensible explanation as to why God allows man to accidentally alter the Bible when he is manually preventing Satan from purposely altering it
3. Saddle up and leave
If your next post drags us off topic again or you dance around the issue and you leave Satan out of the discussion, then we're through for the second and final time.
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I will take a stab at door number two later. I need to take the kids on a 2 hour road trip.
I don't have much time. I will discuss this with you more later. For now all I will say is that point 1 is not entirely untrue and I will attempt to answer the second.
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I am back for now.
I would like to start off by saying I personally don't like "debate". Especially on a forum. Because "debate" in my opinion is "organized arguement" in which there is a winner and a looser. In a debate, the purpose is to battle over who is right and who is wrong not for the benifit of the two debators, but for the audience who chooses a winner.
It is like a courtroom. You have the defendant and the plaintiff who argue over the evidence to convince an audience (judge or jury) on who is right. In the end there is one winner and one looser. Not to say that debate is bad but rather a public forum is a terrible place to hold a debate. There are no moderators to set rules for the debate and hold debators to the rules, everyone can jump in and put in their two cents without understanding the full discussion and there is no unbiased audience to determine a winner or looser.
I prefer discussion over debate because a discussion is where multiple individuals contribute to the topic to learn or at least find common ground. The worst case scenario is that we would agree to disagree. In this case, everyone wins. Can we agree to have a discussion and not a debate?
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You can argue that 2+2=Jesus and win the debate here, as you're defining "debate," because the audience is mostly Christian.
I never advocated formal debate on these forums. Only a formal adherence to logic. Formal debate does not push for the outcome of discovering truth but rather to select a winner. I've seen many Christians or Muslims who won the debate but were wrong in everything they said. In fact debate can encourage the participants to willfully lie in order to advance their position.
The other side of the coin, though, is that if you want to have a discussion then you have to acknowledge that your views are falsifiable. If you are unwilling to even consider the possibility that you're wrong, then we are having a debate.
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