7 year peace treaty, what 7 year peace treaty?

precepts said:

ou refuse to play by the rules. I already told you what determines the covenant is when it is cut off by the Greek little horn in Dan 8 and 11. It's a chronological fact that the AOD is done during the reign of the Greek kings, Dan 8 & 11. That is past tense

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Where are you reading "abomination of desolation" in Daniel 8? It is not abomination of desolation in Daniel 8, but transgression of desolation.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

A transgression is something a person does in violation of the covenant. An abomination is something that is setup - an idol.

In Bible prophecy....
transgression of desolation (Daniel 8) - is the Antichrist going into the temple of God, sitting, claiming that he is God, an action.
abomination of desolation (Daniel 12) - is the image that will be made of the slain/come back to life man of sin in Revelation 13 - an idol setup to be worshiped.

precepts said:

You refuse to play by the rules. I already told you what determines the covenant is when it is cut off by the Greek little horn in Dan 8 and 11. It's a chronological fact that the AOD is done during the reign of the Greek kings, Dan 8 & 11. That is past tense.


Why are you going in circles. The fact is "sixty two weeks" is not 2,000 plus years and counting. There's no "prince" to come! Again it is past tense.


I don't know where you're trying to lead me but it's getting to nowhere. You're dwelling on petty stuff. I already buried that petty stuff for the real hard facts. Play by the rules.


Nothing you say reaches me because there's nothing logical to follow up on. I don't see the significance. I don't see your logic.

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Read Daniel 8:17 and 19

17So he came near to where I was standing, and when he came I was frightened and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end.”

19He said, “Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for itpertains to the appointed time of the end.

Do you see that? If I have a mile to walk and I walk a 1/8 of a mile, am I at the end of the mile? No! Neither is 350 years out of 2550 years represent the end of time. We're told this happens at the appointed time of the end.


Daniel 8:23


23“In the latter period of their rule,
When the transgressors have run their course,
A king will arise,
Insolent and skilled in intrigue.

That highlighted word "their" is referring to the kingdoms. In the latter days of these kingdoms (soon), is when the prince/King who is to come will arise.

Daniel 12:9
9He said, “Go your way,Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.


Concealed until the end time. Not 1/8 of the way but the end times.which among other things, signifies, it couldn't be fully understood until these end times. Also, that it is yet to be totally fulfilled, until the end time.

Double post

Fusion77 said:

That highlighted word "their" is referring to the kingdoms. In the latter days of these kingdoms (soon), is when the prince/King who is to come will arise.

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I don't disagree with you about it being end times.

kjv
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

But their kingdom is singular. In the latter time of the kingdom of the transgressors. The transgressors will be the host of the little horn, his army, his people, the ten kings leaders of the EU. The EU has gone through stages from its early day as the European Economic Community, to the EC, to the EU. In the latter times of that kingdom, it's final form, a ten leader form of federalized government, the little horn will arise as the leader.

"shall stand up" is an idiom for gets ready to go to war. It is a posture that animals do right before they clash.

In the case of the little horn, he assembles his EU army in Greece as a deterrent to stave off the Gog/Magog invasion, forthcoming.

Douggg said:

Where are you reading "abomination of desolation" in Daniel 8? It is not abomination of desolation in Daniel 8, but transgression of desolation.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

A transgression is something a person does in violation of the covenant. An abomination is something that is setup - an idol.

In Bible prophecy....
transgression of desolation (Daniel 8) - is the Antichrist going into the temple of God, sitting, claiming that he is God, an action.
abomination of desolation (Daniel 12) - is the image that will be made of the slain/come back to life man of sin in Revelation 13 - an idol setup to be worshiped.

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So you are saying Dan 8:11-12 is not Dan 11:31?

Douggg said:

I don't disagree with you about it being end times.

kjv
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

But their kingdom is singular. In the latter time of the kingdom of the transgressors. The transgressors will be the host of the little horn, his army, his people, the ten kings leaders of the EU. The EU has gone through stages from its early day as the European Economic Community, to the EC, to the EU. In the latter times of that kingdom, it's final form, a ten leader form of federalized government, the little horn will arise as the leader.

"shall stand up" is an idiom for gets ready to go to war. It is a posture that animals do right before they clash.

In the case of the little horn, he assembles his EU army in Greece as a deterrent to stave off the Gog/Magog invasion, forthcoming.

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Yes, that's the way I think it will be too. that the "prince who is to come" will by intrigue and flattery take control of the EU. There's too many nations for it to be the UN...unless they made some changes, wherein, they divided it into 10 regions or something. At this point, I think the EU is the most plausible.

Fusion77 said:

Read Daniel 8:17 and 19

17So he came near to where I was standing, and when he came I was frightened and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Son of man, understand that the vision pertains to the time of the end.”

19He said, “Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for itpertains to the appointed time of the end.

Do you see that? If I have a mile to walk and I walk a 1/8 of a mile, am I at the end of the mile? No! Neither is 350 years out of 2550 years represent the end of time. We're told this happens at the appointed time of the end.

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A wise person could interpret the phrase "the time of the end" to mean the time of the end of something else other than time, maybe the time of Israel as a nation even. Especially since the AOD being done by the Greek little horn during the Grecian empire is a given!

Fusion77 said:

Daniel 8:23


23“In the latter period of their rule,
When the transgressors have run their course,
A king will arise,
Insolent and skilled in intrigue.

That highlighted word "their" is referring to the kingdoms. In the latter days of these kingdoms (soon), is when the prince/King who is to come will arise.

Click to expand...

They are Greek! The "their" is referring to the Seleucid Greek empire that the little horn springs up from.

The entire context is about the Greek kings, especially of the kings of the north and south, the Ptolemies and the Seleucids.

Reading Comprehension!

Fusion77 said:

Daniel 12:9
9He said, “Go your way,Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.


Concealed until the end time. Not 1/8 of the way but the end times.which among other things, signifies, it couldn't be fully understood until these end times. Also, that it is yet to be totally fulfilled, until the end time.

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Reading Comprehension! You are adding to the text. The text says "until the end time," not "until the end times"! The "end" is referring to the end of Israel as a nation, proven by the fact it's documenting the Greek kings when the AOD is done in Dan 8:11-12 and 11:31.

Douggg said:

I don't disagree with you about it being end times.

kjv
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

But their kingdom is singular. In the latter time of the kingdom of the transgressors. The transgressors will be the host of the little horn, his army, his people, the ten kings leaders of the EU. The EU has gone through stages from its early day as the European Economic Community, to the EC, to the EU. In the latter times of that kingdom, it's final form, a ten leader form of federalized government, the little horn will arise as the leader.

"shall stand up" is an idiom for gets ready to go to war. It is a posture that animals do right before they clash.

In the case of the little horn, he assembles his EU army in Greece as a deterrent to stave off the Gog/Magog invasion, forthcoming.

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Reading Comprehension! The context is of the Greek kingdom, the Seleucid kings from which the Greek little horn springs. And the 10 horns are on the 4th beast (Rome), not on the 3rd beast which is Greece! Reading Comprehension!

precepts said:

A wise person could interpret the phrase "the time of the end" to mean the time of the end of something else other than time, maybe the time of Israel as a nation even. Especially since the AOD being done by the Greek little horn during the Grecian empire is a given!


They are Greek! The "their" is referring to the Seleucid Greek empire that the little horn springs up from.

The entire context is about the Greek kings, especially of the kings of the north and south, the Ptolemies and the Seleucids.

Reading Comprehension!



Reading Comprehension! You are adding to the text. The text says "until the end time," not "until the end times"! The "end" is referring to the end of Israel as a nation, proven by the fact it's documenting the Greek kings when the AOD is done in Dan 8:11-12 and 11:31.

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It really doesn't even take wisdom to understand that there will be an Abomination of Desolation to occur in the future. It's all common sense, no wisdom.

Matthew 24:15 spoken by Jesus
-------------- (Future)-------------
15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)

Jesus spoke of the AOD as a future event. It doesn't say let the persons who I'm speaking to understand! The record states...let the reader understand!

By saying let the reader understand, allows us to know that this is for several hundred years down the road. After all, the bible (NT writings), was hardly available for several hundred years after this was written by Matthew, at least, not available to the common man. So, in essence what He is saying, let the reader, who is able to read this several hundred years later (or really any reader, for that matter) understand.

As for me, I have read it and I understand, just as the Lord says. Maybe you should reconsider who has the reading comprehension problems.

Did you read Matthew 24:15? Then you are a reader of Matthew 24:15? Jesus said to you, who has read this. "let the reader understand)".
Do you understand? This is basically a 3rd grade reading comprehension test.

Let me help. He says when you who have read this (a reader of Matthew 24:15), you should understand what the AOD will be. Remember now he says "when you see" future. Not "when you saw" past

precepts said:

Reading Comprehension! The context is of the Greek kingdom, the Seleucid kings from which the Greek little horn springs. And the 10 horns are on the 4th beast (Rome), not on the 3rd beast which is Greece! Reading Comprehension!

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Reading comprehension, indeed. You did not read Daniel 8:8-9 and comprehend how it applies to Daniel 8:22-23.

I will explain....

Daniel 8:8 indicates when the great horn is broken off, Alexander dies, four notable ones come up toward the four winds of heaven...

Okay, that is addressed in Daniel 8:22, the four resulting kingdoms (plural) ....

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

Now comes where you are not reading with understanding.... when the great horn is broken off, Alexander dies, four notable one come up.... which again is represented in verse 8:22 (that part you got right)............ out of one of the four the little horn comes forth in Daniel 8:9..

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

out of one of the four break up kingdoms, precepts. So it is not talking about the four kingdoms (of verse 22) anymore when it gets to Daniel 8:23, but the end times kingdom that contains the territory that was once part of ONE of the four break-up kingdoms. Which is located north and west of Israel.

So in verse 8:23, the transgressors kingdom (singular in the text) features that territory of ONE of the four beak up kingdoms. The little horn stands up in the latter time of the transgressors' kingdom. Which will be the end form of the EEC/EC/EU. One kingdom, not the four breakup kingdoms.

That one kingdom also represents the kingdom of the little horn in Daniel 7, the end times fourth kingdom. And in Revelation 17, the ten kings give their Kingdom, singular, to the beast.

Fusion77 said:

It really doesn't even take wisdom to understand that there will be an Abomination of Desolation to occur in the future. It's all common sense, no wisdom.

Matthew 24:15 spoken by Jesus
-------------- (Future)-------------
15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)

Jesus spoke of the AOD as a future event. It doesn't say let the persons who I'm speaking to understand! The record states...let the reader understand!

By saying let the reader understand, allows us to know that this is for several hundred years down the road. After all, the bible (NT writings), was hardly available for several hundred years after this was written by Matthew, at least, not available to the common man. So, in essence what He is saying, let the reader, who is able to read this several hundred years later (or really any reader, for that matter) understand.

As for me, I have read it and I understand, just as the Lord says. Maybe you should reconsider who has the reading comprehension problems.

Did you read Matthew 24:15? Then you are a reader of Matthew 24:15? Jesus said to you, who has read this. "let the reader understand)".
Do you understand? This is basically a 3rd grade reading comprehension test.

Let me help. He says when you who have read this (a reader of Matthew 24:15), you should understand what the AOD will be. Remember now he says "when you see" future. Not "when you saw" past

Click to expand...

Which part of the AOD being done by the Greek little horn in Dan 8:11-12 and 11:31 don't you consider when reading Mat 24:15?
How do you figure it into your understanding when the fact is the context in both chapters 8 and 11 is the Greek kings and not Romans? Plus there being only one AOD!

Douggg said:

Reading comprehension, indeed. You did not read Daniel 8:8-9 and comprehend how it applies to Daniel 8:22-23.

I will explain....

Daniel 8:8 indicates when the great horn is broken off, Alexander dies, four notable ones come up toward the four winds of heaven...

Okay, that is addressed in Daniel 8:22, the four resulting kingdoms (plural) ....

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

Now comes where you are not reading with understanding.... when the great horn is broken off, Alexander dies, four notable one come up.... which again is represented in verse 8:22 (that part you got right)............ out of one of the four the little horn comes forth in Daniel 8:9..

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

out of one of the four break up kingdoms, precepts. So it is not talking about the four kingdoms (of verse 22) anymore when it gets to Daniel 8:23, but the end times kingdom that contains the territory that was once part of ONE of the four break-up kingdoms. Which is located north and west of Israel.

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That is where you begin guessing. Dan 11 clearly defines the little horn that comes up out of one the four horns, the Greek little horn, to be the "King" of the North, a man! This is why Dan 11 chronicles the succession of the two particular kings/horns of the four, because he is a man, a fallen angel none the less, the reason Dan 11 jumps from the Greek line of kings of the North to the 2nd resurrection - your stumbling block.

He is a man, not a end time kingdom. Dan 11 jumping to the 2nd resurrection is the only reason why you're concluding that he is an end time kingdom, but he is not. He is a man chronicled in chapter 11!

Douggg said:

So in verse 8:23, the transgressors kingdom (singular in the text) features that territory of ONE of the four beak up kingdoms. The little horn stands up in the latter time of the transgressors' kingdom. Which will be the end form of the EEC/EC/EU. One kingdom, not the four breakup kingdoms.

That one kingdom also represents the kingdom of the little horn in Daniel 7, the end times fourth kingdom. And in Revelation 17, the ten kings give their Kingdom, singular, to the beast.

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It does not! Reading Comprehension! The Greek little horn is not the "Roman" little horn. The Roman little horn is Rome's scriptural 11th king and the Greek little horn, chronicled in chapter 11, is Antiochus III the Great. They are men, but they are also fallen angels.

Here's a little secret. The Greek little horn is also Alexander the Great, the prince of Grecia, a fallen angel, the reason Dan 7:17 says the 4 beast are 4 kings! Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Alexander the Great, and Augustus Caesar are these 4 beast/kings, as are the 10 horns on the 4th beast.

precepts said:

Which part of the AOD being done by the Greek little horn in Dan 8:11-12 and 11:31 don't you consider when reading Mat 24:15?
How do you figure it into your understanding when the fact is the context in both chapters 8 and 11 is the Greek kings and not Romans? Plus there being only one AOD!

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Jesus speaks as the AOD as a future event. Anyone who reads Matthew 24:15 is warned if they see the AOD spoken of by Daniel the prophet then there would be great tribulation. When it states let the reader understand, I understand. I have read it and I understand. When Daniel 8:17 and Daniel 8:19 speak of these things happening at the time of the end...that's exactly what it means. You can't be any more specific than that.

Fusion77 said:

Jesus speaks as the AOD as a future event. Anyone who reads Matthew 24:15 is warned if they see the AOD spoken of by Daniel the prophet then there would be great tribulation. When it states let the reader understand, I understand. I have read it and I understand. When Daniel 8:17 and Daniel 8:19 speak of these things happening at the time of the end...that's exactly what it means. You can't be any more specific than that.

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You are ignoring Dan 8:11-12 and 11:31 all together. Your excuse is that Christ said it to be future so you're not concern with what Dan 8 and 11 reads, ignoring the comprehensive fact.

The logical response is to analyze all the facts and details of the text and then draw a logical conclusion.

precepts said:

He is a man, not a end time kingdom. Dan 11 jumping to the 2nd resurrection is the only reason why you're concluding that he is an end time kingdom, but he is not. He is a man chronicled in chapter 11!

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Of course the little horn is not a kingdom, end times or otherwise.

The little horn is a man. I have not said otherwise. But the kingdom he comes up from is the end times kingdom of the transgressors - which features the territory of one of the four break up kingdoms. Greece is part of the EU, the eastern most frontier. From that location is where the little horn waxes strongs from. It just means that his army comes together and like wax flowing down from a candle, his army and navy move south east to Israel.

The other condition that has to be met is that kingdom has to be the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7. Which the fourth kingdom was the Roman Empire, and the end times version is the EU, which originally was founded by the treaty of Rome.

precepts said:

You are ignoring Dan 8:11-12 and 11:31 all together. Your excuse is that Christ said it to be future so you're not concern with what Dan 8 and 11 reads! You're ignoring the comprehensive fact. .

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Nope, that little horn comes up in the latter days. You've misinterpreted this. By Jesus speaking of the AOD as a future event, (in 33) we know Daniel wasn't speaking of Antichious (167 BC), As being the AOD. Type and shadow, okay but not complete fulfillment. I mean come on...Jesus speaks of it as a future event. That's just common sense, not wisdom.

precepts said:

It does not! Reading Comprehension! The Greek little horn is not the "Roman" little horn. The Roman little horn is Rome's scriptural 11th king and the Greek little horn, chronicled in chapter 11, is Antiochus III the Great. They are men, but they are also fallen angels.

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The bible doesn't say Roman little horn. When you make up these phrases and act as if the bible or I am saying them creates all kinds of confusion.

The bible doesn't say "Roman" little horn. When you create on you own that sort of phrase, it implies that the little horn will come from Rome. Which he may, but the bible doesn't say that. The little horn will be of those people the Romans, but that does not mean that the little horn comes from Rome, born there, and emerges from the city of Rome.

The bible also doesn't say "Greek" little horn.

Antiochus was not an end times personality. Although I don't disagree that Antiochus is being referred to as having committed the "historic" abomination of desolation in Daniel 11. But that event is prior to the end times in Daniel 11:36, which is the little horn person after he has entered the beast stage of his career.

And no, there are no fallen angels in Daniel 11 playing the role(s) of anyone in that chapter.

precepts said:

Here's a little secret. The Greek little horn is also Alexander the Great, the prince of Grecia, a fallen angel, the reason Dan 7:17 says the 4 beast are 4 kings! Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Alexander the Great, and Augustus Caesar are these 4 beast/kings, as are the 10 horns on the 4th beast.

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What? Alexander the Great was a fallen angel ? No, Alexander was a human of earthly parents.

In addition to being four kingdoms, yes, the four beasts also represent four kings. Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Alexander - for sure.

The fourth king is the end times little horn. Who will be the 7th Julio-Claudian over the Roman Empire.

The Julio-Claudians were the Caesar family. Augustus Caesar was the second of that family. If you go to RomanEmperors.org, they have Augustus listed as the first - because technically he was the first "emperor", that is, King over other kings. But in actuality Julius Caesar was the first of that family over the Roman Kingdom, but he declared himself dictator-for-life, ending the republic.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero

7. little horn, forthcoming

Douggg said:

Of course the little horn is not a kingdom, end times or otherwise.

The little horn is a man. I have not said otherwise. But the kingdom he comes up from is the end times kingdom of the transgressors - which features the territory of one of the four break up kingdoms.

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Why are you ignoring chapter 11 and the facts? He is the little horn. He does not come out of a kingdom that is the little horn. He is the little horn.

The doer of Dan 8:11-12 and 11:31 is the Greek little horn Antiochus III the Great. He is of the Seleucid Dynasty, the king of the North, chronicled in chapter 11.

Douggg said:

Greece is part of the EU, the eastern most frontier. From that location is where the little horn waxes strongs from. It just means that his army comes together and like wax flowing down from a candle, his army and navy move south east to Israel.

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Nothing in Daniel 8 deviates from the 3rd beast kingdom of Greece. Your reading comprehension is off. Dan 8 is giving the same account of the wars between the kings of the South and North as chapter 11 because Dan 8 is Dan 11. None of them speak of anything else other than what happens during the Greek empires' reign until the AOD.

Douggg said:

The other condition that has to be met is that kingdom has to be the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7.

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Where does it say that? You're making it up.

Douggg said:

Which the fourth kingdom was the Roman Empire, and the end times version is the EU, which originally was founded by the treaty of Rome.

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Reading Comprehension is the key, and you're not comprehending. Everything in Daniel is about the "end times," the end of Israel as a nation thru the AOD. The "last days" are the "last days" of God striving with man, not the end of the world. The facts proves it thru context.

Douggg said:

The bible doesn't say Roman little horn. When you make up these phrases and act as if the bible or I am saying them creates all kinds of confusion.

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The text doesn't have to say Greek or Roman little horn in order for the little horns on the Greek and Roman beasts to be Greek or Roman little horns. There is a little horn in the Greek and Roman kingdoms/beasts.

Douggg said:

The bible doesn't say "Roman" little horn. When you create on you own that sort of phrase, it implies that the little horn will come from Rome. Which he may, but the bible doesn't say that. The little horn will be of those people the Romans, but that does not mean that the little horn comes from Rome, born there, and emerges from the city of Rome.

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You're straining on the gnat. Dan 7 specifically tells you the little horn comes up on the 4th beast, which we all know is Rome. It also tells you the 10 horns are 10 kings in the 4th beast's kingdom (Rome).

Douggg said:

The bible also doesn't say "Greek" little horn.

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Once again it doesn't have too. I am describing what is given so you can identify who and what I'm speaking about, and there is a little horn in the Greek, 3rd beast, kingdom.

Douggg said:

Antiochus was not an end times personality. Although I don't disagree that Antiochus is being referred to as having committed the "historic" abomination of desolation in Daniel 11. But that event is prior to the end times in Daniel 11:36, which is the little horn person after he has entered the beast stage of his career.

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No one is mentioned in Dan 11 after the little horn because he is the main concern.

Douggg said:

And no, there are no fallen angels in Daniel 11 playing the role(s) of anyone in that chapter.

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Please! That is but your opinion, and I am not asking. Dan 7:17 specifically state the 4 beasts are four kings. There are four to five beast, four to five beast kingdoms, four to five fallen angels (the Beast and the four Euphrates bound angels), and four to five Horsemen in Revelation. All for a reason.

Go figure.