7 year peace treaty, what 7 year peace treaty?

Fusion77 said:

Ezra 4:1-5
it's very clear that the context of Ezra 4:1-5 is speaking of the temple. Do you actually dispute that?

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What are you? I said both the context of Ezra and Isa 44 and 45 are post-Babylon. Isa 44 specifically tells you Cyrus is commanded to free Israel and to build the "city" and temple post-Babylon. How is he not the same Cyrus in Ezra when the context is Cyrus freeing them post-Babylon to build the temple per se? Is there two different events happening simultaneously in parallel universes, one Cyrus commanding to build the temple and city after freeing Israel, and other Cyrus commanding to build just he temple after freeing them post-Babylon?

You are not that simple!

Fusion77 said:

1Now when the enemies of Judah and Benjamin heard that the people of the exile were building a temple to the LORD God of Israel, 2they approached Zerubbabel and the heads of fathers’ households, and said to them, “Let us build with you, for we, like you, seek your God; and we have been sacrificing to Him since the days of Esarhaddon king of Assyria, who brought us up here.” 3But Zerubbabel and Jeshua and the rest of the heads of fathers’ households of Israel said to them, “You have nothing in common with us in building a house to our God; but we ourselves will together build to the LORD God of Israel, as King Cyrus, the king of Persia has commanded us.”
4Then the people of the land discouraged the people of Judah, and frightened them from building, 5and hired counselors against them to frustrate their counsel all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia.

Hello! This is speaking of the temple. Don't you see the context? There's nothing about the city being rebuilt here. The work on the temple Ceased from all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia. until the 2nd year of Darius.

Ezra 4:4-5

4Then the people of the land discouraged the people of Judah, and frightened them from building, 5and hired counselors against them to frustrate their counsel all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia.


The context of Ezra 4:1-5 is the work on the Temple!!!!

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You're not that simple minded to assume that there are two different Cyrus' post Babylon, both freeing Israel to go back and build post-Babylon, one to build the city and temple, the other to build just the temple only! You're not that simple.

Fusion77 said:

The temple was completed in Darius's 6th year. So, if the work on the temple was completed. I guess we know when the work stopped.

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So when the work resumed in Darius' 2nd yr and was completed in his 6th yr, that was it? They just decided not to rebuild the city at all?

But what about the NT verse I posted about the temple being 46yrs in building? It doesn't count?

Fusion77 said:

Ezra 6:15

15This temple was completed on the third day of the month Adar; it was the sixth year of the reign of King Darius.

Ezra 1:1-2 says Cyrus fulfilled the words of the prophet JEREMIAH! Not Isaiah.


1Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, the LORDstirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put itin writing, saying:
2“Thus says Cyrus king of Persia, ‘The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and He has appointed me to build Him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah.


Funny, because king Artexerxes sure didn't think it was inconceivable for him to issue a new decree. It states so right here!

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That was because he was the imposter! A search had to be made and Darius reminded that Cyrus made the decree for Israel to resume building (Ezra 5 & 6)!

Fusion77 said:

Ezra 4:21

21“So, now issue a decree to make these men stop work, that this city may not be rebuilt until a decree is issued by me.

Hello! Do you not see that? Decreed to stop until he issues a new decree to start building again.

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Who did Artaxerxes tell to stop building the city if Cyrus never gave a decree for them to build the city?

Fusion77 said:

Who says the cities has been burning for 13 years. As I said it's obvious, the decree to stop building was much closer to Artexerxes 20th year.

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It is not obvious. You are making it up.

Fusion77 said:

The text does not say. I could only Speculate it was from Artexerxes 15-19th year. Furthermore, Nehemiah 1:3 states the gates are burned, (past tense), not burning.

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Speculating is right because it's not obvious. You said he sent them in his 7th yr and the report came back that they were building the city. Nehem--h is his 20th yr when he gets the report of the city in ruins.

Fusion77 said:

3They said to me, “The remnant there in the province who survived the captivity are in great distress and reproach, and the wall of Jerusalem is broken down and its gates are burned with fire.”

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Why would they be in "great distress and reproach" is the work was only ceased?

Fusion77 said:

If the KJV commentators think some imposter usurped authority for 6 months. And, was able to do all of this without a time machine. Then, I don't know what to say?

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You're the one that needs the time machine to travel between you're parallel universes of Cyrus'!

Fusion77 said:

IMO Isaiah is not speaking of Cyrus of Persia. I believe it's speaking of a then future event that Cyrus of Persia did not fulfill. Regardless, he did not issue a decree to rebuild Jerusalem.

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You attempts are so weak!

precepts said:

You attempts are so weak!

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Ezr 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.


Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

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Douggg said:

The question put to you was not about me. The question put to you is for your view of what Daniel 9 is about?

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To which my response is?

BABerean2 said:

The word "antichrist" means against Christ.

Your claim that Daniel chapter 9 has nothing to do with events during the first century, is the most antichrist interpretation of Daniel chapter 9 that I have ever read, in that it denies the connection between the passage and the life of Jesus of Nazareth.

You are also denying the connection between the passage and the New Covenant foretold by Jeremiah.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


And spoken by the Messiah Himself at the Last Supper, during the first century.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


His Blood was the final sacrifice for sin.

Mar_15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.


Heb_9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


His sacrifice made the Sinai covenant "obsolete".

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


The levitical priesthood is finished.

Heb_7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Denying that the levitical priesthood is finished also denies the New Testament and anyone who does so is not a follower of Jesus of Nazareth...
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This is the 2nd time you have attacked my person instead of the facts.

Your opinion is exactly what it is, an opinion. Keep it to yourself. Discuss the facts. I do not care what you think or what you want to insinuate.

When you can't address the facts, you attack the person. Why?

Because you can't address the facts!

I DID NOT GIVE YOU AN "OPINION" ON DAN 9! I GAVE YOU THE FACTS! WHEN DID GIVING THE FACTS BECOME ANTICHRIST BEHAVIOR? IT'S THE KETTLE CALLING THE POT BLACK WHO'S ANTICHRIST, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ADDRESS AND FACE THE FACTS! FACE IT!

precepts said:

What are you? I said both the context of Ezra and Isa 44 and 45 are post-Babylon. Isa 44 specifically tells you Cyrus is commanded to free Israel and to build the "city" and temple post-Babylon. How is he not the same Cyrus in Ezra when the context is Cyrus freeing them post-Babylon to build the temple per se? Is there two different events happening simultaneously in parallel universes, one Cyrus commanding to build the temple and city after freeing Israel, and other Cyrus commanding to build just he temple after freeing them post-Babylon?

You are not that simple!


You're not that simple minded to assume that there are two different Cyrus' post Babylon, both freeing Israel to go back and build post-Babylon, one to build the city and temple, the other to build just the temple only! You're not that simple.



So when the work resumed in Darius' 2nd yr and was completed in his 6th yr, that was it? They just decided not to rebuild the city at all?

But what about the NT verse I posted about the temple being 46yrs in building? It doesn't count?



That was because he was the imposter! A search had to be made and Darius reminded that Cyrus made the decree for Israel to resume building (Ezra 5 & 6)!


Who did Artaxerxes tell to stop building the city if Cyrus never gave a decree for them to build the city?



It is not obvious. You are making it up.


Speculating is right because it's not obvious. You said he sent them in his 7th yr and the report came back that they were building the city. Nehem--h is his 20th yr when he gets the report of the city in ruins.


Why would they be in "great distress and reproach" is the work was only ceased?



You're the one that needs the time machine to travel between you're parallel universes of Cyrus'!



You attempts are so weak!

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It doesn't matter how many times we go over this. You keep rejecting the truth. Cyrus issued a decree to build the temple. The Jews came in to the land in fear, of the people surrounding them. They were terrified of the people of the land. Ezra 3:3

3So they set up the altar on its foundation, for they were terrified because of the peoples of the lands; and they offered burnt offerings on it to the LORD, burnt offerings morning and evening.

So terrified, that despite having a decree from Cyrus, to build a temple they ceased in building for some 16-17 years. They resumed in Darius's 2nd year and finished in his 6th year, after no building for 17 years. There was no decree to rebuild the city. Therefore, any attempt to rebuild the city or the wall would have been met with resistance by the people of the land. The people of the land, were not in agreement, or accepting with the Jews building the Temple, the city or the wall.

When they started rebuilding the wall and repairing foundations, the people of the land reported it. It's like your whole belief system hinges on this. What's wrong with just admitting the truth? I don't care if they built exactly as you say. The problem is, that's not the way the bible says it happened.

Again, Ezra 1:2-3 says Cyrus of Persia fulfilled the words of the prophet Jeremiah. If he fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, why not say so? Because, it wasn't fulfilled. There either has, or will be an end time Cyrus who did, or will fulfill Isaiah's Prophecy IMO.

BABerean2 said:

Ezr 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.


Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

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So you're saying Christ did away with the law instead of fulfilling it?

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Fusion77 said:

It doesn't matter how many times we go over this. You keep rejecting the truth. Cyrus issued a decree to build the temple. The Jews to the land in fear. They were terrified of the people of the land. Ezra 3:3

3So they set up the altar on its foundation, for they were terrified because of the peoples of the lands; and they offered burnt offerings on it to the LORD, burnt offerings morning and evening.

So terrified, that despite having a decree from Cyrus, to build a temple they ceased in building for some 16-17 years. They resumed in Darius's 2nd year and finished in his 6th year, after no building for 17 years. There was no decree to rebuild the city. Therefore, any attempt to rebuild the city or the wall would have been met with resistance by the people of the land. The people of the land, were not in agreement, or accepting with the Jews building the Temple, the city or the wall.

When they started rebuilding the wall and repairing foundations, the people of the land reported it. It's like your whole belief system hinges on this. What's wrong with just admitting the truth? I don't care if they built exactly as you say. The problem is, that's not the way the bible says it happened.

Again, Ezra 1:2-3 says Cyrus of Persia fulfilled the words of the prophet Jeremiah. If he fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, why not say so? Because, it wasn't fulfilled. There either has, or will be an end time Cyrus who did, or will fulfill Isaiah's Prophecy IMO.

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You're not that simple. You're just living in one of the parallel universes surrounding the two Cyrus' and their two decrees post their two parallel Babylons in two parallel Israel's history that both happen simultaneously when they both leave their parallel Babylons.

precepts said:

You're not that simple. You're just living in one of the parallel universes surrounding the two Cyrus' and their two decrees post their two parallel Babylons in two parallel Israel's history that both happen simultaneously when they both leave their parallel Babylons.

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Oh, and John 2:20 is speaking of Herods (additions) temple. The Jews were well aware of what has been going on in their days. That being the renovations that Herod made on the temple. That's the most plausible answer. Not, that they're speaking of something that occurred more than 500 years prior. Also, that history tells it did NOT take 46 years for Jeshua and Zerubbabel to build the temple.

precepts said:

Discuss the facts. I do not care what you think or what you want to insinuate

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The Levitical priesthood is finished.

Heb_7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.



The Law was added 430 years "after" the promise to Abraham "until" the Seed to whom the promise was made (Christ) could come.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.




1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


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precepts said:

To which my response is?

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....missing.

precepts said:

You're not that simple.

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This is the type of comment that you make way too often - which is a violation of the forum rules. It is similar to your comment "you are not that naive".... which is also a violation of the forum rules.

BABerean2 said:

The Levitical priesthood is finished.

Heb_7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.



The Law was added 430 years "after" the promise to Abraham "until" the Seed to whom the promise was made (Christ) could come.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.




1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


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You are not fpr real! Did Christ do away with the law or did he fulfill it? And can you break the covenant of the night and day that they don't shine in their season?

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Douggg said:

This is the type of comment that you make way too often - which is a violation of the forum rules. It is similar to your comment "you are not that naive".... which is also a violation of the forum rules.

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Is it because you are offended at the facts that I present that you are attacking my person?

precepts said:

Is it because you are offended at the facts that I present that you are attacking my person?

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get real.

Fusion77 said:

Oh, and John 2:20 is speaking of Herods (additions) temple. The Jews were well aware of what has been going on in their days. That being the renovations that Herod made on the temple. That's the most plausible answer. Not, that they're speaking of something that occurred more than 500 years prior. Also, that history tells it did NOT take 46 years for Jeshua and Zerubbabel to build the temple.

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You keep trying to pass off your faulty explanations as facts but it's not cutting it. Where is the proof that Herod's "additions" took 46 yrs, and I did tell you the number of yrs was wrong in contrast to the calculated time in Ezra and in Nehem in reference to the 2nd temple.

You're still living in a parallel universe with two Cyrus, two decrees, and two Israel freed from Babylon by the two Cyrus. Go figure!

precepts said:

You keep trying to pass off your faulty explanations as facts but it's not cutting it. Where is the proof that Herod's "additions" took 46 yrs, and I did tell you the number of yrs was wrong in contrast to the calculated time in Ezra and in Nehem in reference to the 2nd temple.

You're still living in a parallel universe with two Cyrus, two decrees, and two Israel freed from Babylon by the two Cyrus. Go figure!

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Cyrus became king over the entire Persian empire in 539 BC. the Jews came to Jerusalem probably 538 BC. Started the foundation after 2 years. Started building in 537 or 536 BC.

Ezra 3:8-10

8Now in the second year of their coming to the house of God at Jerusalem in the second month, Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel and Jeshua the son of Jozadak and the rest of their brothers the priests and the Levites, and all who came from the captivity to Jerusalem, began the work and appointed the Levites from twenty years and older to oversee the work of the house of the LORD. 9Then Jeshua with his sons and brothers stood united with Kadmiel and his sons, the sons of Judah and the sons of Henadad with their sons and brothers the Levites, to oversee the workmen in the temple of God.

10Now when the builders had laid the foundation of the temple of the LORD,

Darius became king in 522 BC. The temple was completed in his 6th year.

537- 516 = 21 years time. With 15 years of no building after the foundation was laid.

Ezra 6:15

15This temple was completed on the third day of the month Adar; it was the sixth year of the reign of King Darius.


Please add it up. There's no 46 years in there.


If you haven't come to the understanding that a prophet speaks and hears from the Lord, they do! Just as a the Lord is not constrained by the boundaries of time. So can a prophet prophesy about any point in time. Historical, present, before Christ first advent, during His earthly ministry, in these last days, After His return. A prophet speaks on behalf of God about whatever time the Lord tells that prophet to speak on. If Ezra tells us that Cyrus of Persia fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah and that's for us. Ezra doesn't tell us he fulfilled the prophet Isaiah. See, Isaiah is a prophet, he can speak to any time period. I'm always glad to share a biblical truth with you.

Regardless, Isaiah 44 doesn't mention any sort of decree given by Cyrus.

Fusion77 said:

Cyrus became king over the entire Persian empire in 539 BC. the Jews came to Jerusalem probably 538 BC. Started the foundation after 2 years. Started building in 537 or 536 BC.

Ezra 3:8-10

8Now in the second year of their coming to the house of God at Jerusalem in the second month, Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel and Jeshua the son of Jozadak and the rest of their brothers the priests and the Levites, and all who came from the captivity to Jerusalem, began the work and appointed the Levites from twenty years and older to oversee the work of the house of the LORD. 9Then Jeshua with his sons and brothers stood united with Kadmiel and his sons, the sons of Judah and the sons of Henadad with their sons and brothers the Levites, to oversee the workmen in the temple of God.

10Now when the builders had laid the foundation of the temple of the LORD,

Darius became king in 522 BC. The temple was completed in his 6th year.

537- 516 = 21 years time. With 15 years of no building after the foundation was laid.

Ezra 6:15

15This temple was completed on the third day of the month Adar; it was the sixth year of the reign of King Darius.


Please add it up. There's no 46 years in there.


If you haven't come to the understanding that a prophet speaks and hears from the Lord, they do! Just as a the Lord is not constrained by the boundaries of time. So can a prophet prophesy about any point in time. Historical, present, before Christ first advent, during His earthly ministry, in these last days, After His return. A prophet speaks on behalf of God about whatever time the Lord tells that prophet to speak on. If Ezra tells us that Cyrus of Persia fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah and that's for us. Ezra doesn't tell us he fulfilled the prophet Isaiah. See, Isaiah is a prophet, he can speak to any time period. I'm always glad to share a biblical truth with you.

Regardless, Isaiah 44 doesn't mention any sort of decree given by Cyrus.

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You're not for real! I said where is the proof Herod's "additions" lasted 46 yrs?

precepts said:

You're not for real! I said where is the proof Herod's "additions" lasted 46 yrs?

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You're joking right? Am I on candid camera or something?

By proving the temple was finished in about the 22-23rd year after the people entered the land...proves the Jews in John 2:20 weren't speaking of what Jeshua and Zerubbabel did alone.

It's either what Herod did, or a combination of both. I'm quite sure Josephus addresses this. However, Ive seen contradictions between Josephus and the bible. Therefore, I take Josephus writings with caution.