Lion or lamb?

Goodbook said:

Ok here is one theological question that it seems a lot of christians are confused about when the answer is plain in scripture.

I hear in many christian circles think that Jesus is the lion of the tribe of judah, but, Revelation specifically says ONLY the lamb is worthy to open the scroll.

All through the bible, Jesus is referred to as the lamb.

The devil is referred to as a lion, prowling about, seeking anyone to devour.
Why do some christians refer to Jesus as a lion? Is it they get mixed up with C.S. Lewis Narnia fantasy story?

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The text set the stage saying there is no one in heaven and earth who can open the scroll but then a lion emerges with the power to open the scrolls. Next scene there is no lion but now a seven horned/eyed slain lamb. The line from lion to lamb really isn't that difficult to draw and the text sets up the connection. You may not see it but the text certainly does not say the lion is unable to open the scroll.

The fact is some of the same words have been used in scripture to describe both the enemy and Jesus but context largely sorts out the meaning and which characteristics are being implied by the symbolism. One is lion as we see in this text, another one is day star. Most do not know or care to admit it but "lucifer" is a latin word for day star and contrary to popular believe it is not the proper name of satan. In the latin texts both Satan (Isaiah 14:12) and Christ (2 Peter 1:19) are called "lucifer". It is the KJV that chose to retain the Isaiah 14:12 as a latin title for satan and has perpetuated this myth that it is Satan's proper name. I am digressing but the greater point is context and some common sense can go a long way.

Goodbook said:

It says in kjv the lion prevailed but actually it is the lamb that opens the book.

Nowhere does it say the lion turns into a lamb.

If people are confused about this they just have to read the entire chapter in full and even right to the end of the book of revelation. No more lions are mentioned.

The metaphor is that the lion is the one the elders thought would open the book, but the lion slays the lamb who is the one who rises from the dead and is the only one that can open the book of life.

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What do the Elders mean by, "the root of David" in Revelation 5:5?

Such the problem with Christians solely fixated on the life of the Son of God as Jesus the Christ. He lowered himself taking on flesh. He humbled himself to die for our sin. He has since ascended to the right hand of God in heaven to reclaim his place of glory and majesty.

Jesus is both lion and lamb. He is also mediator and shepherd. Does that mean he is not a lamb? One can fulfill multiple roles, lamb serves to symbolize one role of Jesus, not his only. He is also teacher. He is also High Priest. The Son of God has done much more for us than just died for us. For that reason he is more than just a lamb. He is more than just lion. These are just tools that scripture uses to paint a picture of his glory.

There is no argument that Jesus is a lamb in his death. What is not taught so much is God's righteous judgement and the Son of God is also charged with this task of judging this world. Everyone knows from nature that the lion is the king of the jungle.


And these verses compare the judging of a king to a lion.


These verses speak of God's wrath on his people as a lion.


Hosea 11:10 They will follow the Lord; he will roar like a lion. When he roars, his children will come trembling from the west.

Hosea 13:7 So I will be like a lion to them, like a leopard I will lurk by the path. 8 Like a bear robbed of her cubs, I will attack them and rip them open; like a lion I will devour them— a wild animal will tear them apart.

Amos 3:8 The lion has roared— who will not fear? The Sovereign Lord has spoken— who can but prophesy?

So now look at scripture that speaks of the Son of God ruling earth.

today I have become your father.
8 Ask me, and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You will break them with a rod of iron;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”
10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear
and celebrate his rule with trembling.
12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Heb 1:8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
13 To which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”

1 Cor 15: 24 Then the end will come, when he[Jesus] hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Lastly I want to remind you of the multiple references to the Son of God being at the right of God. If you would ponder what a kings right hand man does, you might understand that analogy that the king issues decrees and the right hand man makes it happen.

Goodbook said:

It says in kjv the lion prevailed but actually it is the lamb that opens the book.

Nowhere does it say the lion turns into a lamb.

If people are confused about this they just have to read the entire chapter in full and even right to the end of the book of revelation. No more lions are mentioned.

The metaphor is that the lion is the one the elders thought would open the book, but the lion slays the lamb who is the one who rises from the dead and is the only one that can open the book of life.

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The text may not say the lion turns into the lamb but it also does not say the lion slays the lamb. Given the two positions the lion as the lamb is more biblically consistent than the lion, the root of David, slaying the lamb.

This is a vision, like a dream, and images can shift quickly without changing their identity or need to give explaination. This is a slain lamb after all with seven horns and seven eyes so there is no reason to demand a transition from lion to lamb.

That is true > it does not say that the lion, who is able to open the scroll, slays the lamb.

Being called a lion brings out how Jesus is strong to fight for us and He is King.

Being the Lamb means He is the Passover sacrifice for our sins.

So, He is powerful like the lion and gentle like the Lamb In God, there is both severity and goodness, as Paul says in Romans 11:22 > both lionlike and lamblike.

The Bible calls the LORD our Rock, but also the Holy Spirit is living waters, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the LORD. So, different images bring out different things about God.

They aren't mutually exclusive.
Both represent personality traits of the Messiah.
Personalities are composed of many traits-some diametrically opposed to the other.
Jesus was humble like a lamb, willing to sacrifice his life for mankind as his Father commanded.
Yet Jesus is also aggressive like a lion in defense of righteousness.
That is why he is depicted as riding a white horse while leading the armies of heaven against the devil and his supporters.

Goodbook said:

I think people are reading into scriputuee what isnt there.
It doesnt say a lion turns into a lamb. Its obvious a lamb was slain. Slain means killed.

As far as I know, there's no evolution in the bible and the lion suddenly mutated from one species to another.

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I will point out a lion never actually concretely shows up (and certainly doesn't kill any lamb) The lion is really only reference by the elder as a title. What if the elder said "Behold it's the Lion of the tribe of Judah" and in walks the lamb. Why does the "Lion of the tribe of Judah" in this vision need to be in a physical state of a lion?

Goodbook said:

Ok here is one theological question that it seems a lot of christians are confused about when the answer is plain in scripture.

I hear in many christian circles think that Jesus is the lion of the tribe of judah, but, Revelation specifically says ONLY the lamb is worthy to open the scroll.

All through the bible, Jesus is referred to as the lamb.

The devil is referred to as a lion, prowling about, seeking anyone to devour.
Why do some christians refer to Jesus as a lion? Is it they get mixed up with C.S. Lewis Narnia fantasy story?

Click to expand...

Jesus is referred to as the "lion of the tribe of Judah" in the Revelation 5:5. It's an allusion all the way back to Genesis, where Jacob refers to Judah as a "young lion" in the patriarchal blessing in Genesis 49. Jesus, as the Messiah is the Son of David, the Root of Jesse, the "lion of the tribe of Judah", etc.

Yes, the devil is referred to as a "roaring lion", but it's a good idea not to imagine that the Bible is monolithic as though the way certain symbols and turns of phrase are used in one sense are then applied equally everywhere else. For example, if we take the imagery of the wolf, we likely think immediately of the warning against "wolves in sheep's clothing", yet in Isaiah we have the image of the wolf, peacefully, laying down with the lamb. Further, we shouldn't assume that the lamb in Isaiah is Christ, though the lamb imagery is used of Him on a number of occasions. Different authors with different intents mean different things.

That Jesus is the "lion of the tribe of Judah" isn't in contradiction to St. John the Baptist's declaration, "Behold! the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!", these are different images used in different ways. The lamb imagery used of Christ is paschal imagery, wherein Christ is understood as the one, true paschal lamb whose blood covers us and saves us. Christ as the lion of the tribe of Judah is Messianic language, He's the offspring of Judah, the root of Jesse, the son of David, the son of Mary, the Son of Man.

Revelation 5 calls Him both, because He is both. The imagery intends to convey different things about who Christ is.

We should also be cautious that we don't over assume what the metaphors mean. That He is the lamb of God doesn't mean He is "sheepish" or cowardly or other things we tend to associate with lambs; that He is the lion of the tribe of Judah doesn't mean He is an aggressive predator. He's Jesus, that's who He is. The One who born of Mary's womb, and said and did the things we read in the Gospels--that's Jesus, that's who Jesus was, that's who Jesus is, and that's who Jesus will always be. He was always the lion of the tribe of Judah, He will always be the lamb of God. He's Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

Goodbook said:

I think people are reading into Scripture what isn't there.
It doesn't say a lion turns into a lamb. Its obvious a lamb was slain. Slain means killed.

As far as I know, there's no evolution in the bible and the lion suddenly mutated from one species to another.

Click to expand...

That's doesn't happen if we heed the following counsel:

1 Corinthians 4:6 ►
http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/4-6.htm#
New International Version
Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and
Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written."....

This thread unquestionably belongs in the Controversial Theology section. Jesus as the Lion of the tribe of Judah is a long standing and accepted symbol in the church for Christ with very stable biblical accounts to back it; it is not something we should have to defend in this area of CF. The suggestion that the lion in Revelation 5:5 is the one who kills the lamb is biblical unsupported and ignores the context and logic of the text not to mention demands compromises in biblical accounts for it to even work.

Furthermore the enemy may be referred to as a lion in other scripture but the imagery needs to be taken in context as all accounts in scripture need. Let's put aside for the moment that the lion in Revelation 5:5 is of the tribe of Judah and the root of David both of which point to Christ but the characteristics used to describe the lion show us something as well. Revelation 5:5 the lion is a conquering lion and 1 Peter 5:8 is a devouring lion. Let's explore these: both there is an implied command from the lion but they reveal or expose different attributes. 1 Peter 5:8's lion commands through preying upon and consuming it's victims where Revelation 5:5 command is through defeat of and authority over the enemy.

It is not good enough to say that lamb symbolism vastly overshadows the lion symbolism and then suggest the latter is based on deception (I'm pretty sure C.S. Lewis would have some things to say about that). That is not a reason, it is ignorance. Jesus is also a shepherd but how can he be both a lamb and a shepherd at the same time? A little common sense applied to context goes a long way.

Absolutely!

Jesus has many titles and there is absolutely no logical reason to believe that they cannot all be equally valid.

1. Son of God
2. The Word of God
3. Lord of Lord and King of Kings
4. Messiah, Christ, anointed one
5. Savior
6. Seed of God's Woman
7. Lamb of God
8. Mediator
9. Only Begotten
10. Bridegroom
11. Shepherd
12. Son of Man
13. Eternal Father
14. Prince of Peace
15. Mighty God
16. Nazarene
17. Emmanuel
19. Master
20. Rabbi
21. Messenger of the Covenant
22. Lion of the tribe of Judah
23. Jesus

and others.