Habilis Wonders: How Squirrels Survive Noah's Flood With No Trees After?

homohabilis117 · Feb 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Physical reality takes a back seat on the bus when God is orchestrating a miracle.

Especially one that is in magnitude of the Flood.

God used miracles to start the Flood; He used miracles during the Flood; and He used miracles after the Flood.

I would say that makes physical reality unpredictable.Negatory.

Not during the Flood.No more people either.

No more plants, no more animals, only eight people.

But God cleaned the mess up and gave them a new beginning.And who was more reliable than Noah, who documented it all?I seriously doubt you can get an accurate analysis of the earth in Noah's time.

I very seriously doubt that.Not in this case.

This would require an eyewitness account, or there would be no account at all.Manna is the best explanation, in my opinion.

I don't think the Bible is absolutely silent on how God did things during the Flood.

Since He fed the Israelites in the wilderness with manna, it's not improper to believe He fed others with miracles as well.

And if it wasn't manna, then again, all Noah had to do is take a sack lunch aboard, and God could have fed 9000 people with it.

Matthew 16:9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
Matthew 16:10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?Yes, indeed.

I enjoy our discussions.

Second only to Creationism, the Flood is my forte.

I have to ask though:

What happened to homohabili 1 - 116?

Habilis has problem with world not following laws. God created world according to set laws. Even if miracle initiated by God, resultant effects would follow natural laws that God proscribed to natural universe. Flood raises problems that amount to contradictions when physical evidence is observed. For example: even if flood a miracle, a miracle that (we both?) assume created geological record, why evidence of fire throughout geological record?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_record_of_fire
Can God make fire underwater? Can he put penny in corner of circle? Can he make 2+2=5? To Habilis, the problems with flood amount to this question when a very serious look at the flood is taken. Simply, would God contradict himself?
As always, thank you for discuss. Habilis is glad you also like.
*chews manioc*

Subduction Zone · Feb 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Nor do you have to believe the truths of Genesis to be an Atheist.

What "truths" in Genesis? We all know that there are quite a few fallacies.

PsychoSarah · Feb 26, 2016

JacksBratt said:
Noah was told that he could eat meat when he got off the ark. He also had about 100 years to prepare and had plenty of food to last until he could grow some fast growing crops and then more and more.....

Who said all the top soil was stripped from the earth? The Nile floods and leaves very fertile land for growing...

This issue is a minor issue compared to others I have heard people talk about when inquiring about the obstacles Noah and his family would have faced.

Eating meat immediately would have doomed species to extinction... as would a bottleneck of 2-7 individuals for some of them.

PsychoSarah · Feb 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Nor do you have to believe the truths of Genesis to be an Atheist.

you'd have a rough time being an atheist if you believed the words of Genesis to all be true. In fact, I think it would be a contradiction. However, you can be an atheist without being an evolution supporter without there being an inherent contradiction.

Subduction Zone · Feb 26, 2016

PsychoSarah said:
you'd have a rough time being an atheist if you believed the words of Genesis to all be true. In fact, I think it would be a contradiction. However, you can be an atheist without being an evolution supporter without there being an inherent contradiction.

I think that AV made that post because for some reason it bothers him when someone points out that a person does not have to deny reality to be a Christian.

AV1611VET · Feb 26, 2016

homohabilis117 said:
Habilis has problem with world not following laws.

Do you have a problem with the police breaking speed limit laws when responding to a 911 call?

homohabilis117 said:
God created world according to set laws.

I'm not sure that's the way He did it.

Which came first, the universe or its natural laws?

homohabilis117 said:
Even if miracle initiated by God, resultant effects would follow natural laws that God proscribed to natural universe.

Then explain this ...

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

... within the framework of what you just said.

homohabilis117 said:
Flood raises problems that amount to contradictions when physical evidence is observed.

As it should.

homohabilis117 said:
For example:

Thank you, but I don't need any examples.

I agree with you.

AV1611VET · Feb 26, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
What "truths" in Genesis?

The first four words of the Bible pwn atheism.

The fifth word pwns [cosmic] evolution.

AV1611VET · Feb 26, 2016

PsychoSarah said:
Eating meat immediately would have doomed species to extinction... as would a bottleneck of 2-7 individuals for some of them.

Hey, Sarah?

Want me to let you in on a little secret that would shock bottle neckers?

Back in 4004 BC, the earth at one time consisted of a single human being: Adam.

But with God in control, all that changed.

Jesus put it very well as to how God can increase the population ...

Luke 3:8b God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

I like it when people go on about how this or that couldn't happen.

The harder it was to happen, the brighter the miracle.

AV1611VET · Feb 26, 2016

PsychoSarah said:
you'd have a rough time being an atheist if you believed the words of Genesis to all be true.

Meh ... they'd probably come up with something cute.

Like "agnostoatheist" or "weak atheist" or ...

Oh ... wait ...

PsychoSarah said:
In fact, I think it would be a contradiction.

Don't tell them that.

Many of them deny they go around saying God doesn't exist.

As Zenith used to say: The quality goes in before the name goes on.

Not so with many atheist anymore.

PsychoSarah said:
However, you can be an atheist without being an evolution supporter without there being an inherent contradiction.

Hmmm ... I'd have to take your word on that.

AV1611VET · Feb 26, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
I think that AV made that post because for some reason it bothers him when someone points out that a person does not have to deny reality to be a Christian.

Have you seen my posts where I deny being a Christian based on the definition of "Christian" being "Christ like" and not "Christ follower"?

Paul called us "saints" -- not "Christians."

HOWEVER, I'm still out to lunch on this.

Subduction Zone · Feb 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
The first four words of the Bible pwn atheism.

The fifth word pwns [cosmic] evolution.

How can a book of myths "pwn" anything?

Subduction Zone · Feb 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Have you seen my posts where I deny being a Christian based on the definition of "Christian" being "Christ like" and not "Christ follower"?

Paul called us "saints" -- not "Christians."

HOWEVER, I'm still out to lunch on this.

I don't care for your foolish, and dishonest, semantic games. Like it or not you are a Christian. You don't get to make up your own words.

Edmond Smith · Feb 26, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
Okay, you are not being terribly unreasonable. Since there really is no doubt about what the scientific method is Wiki should be good enough. Here it is in a nutshell:

Now this is a bit unreasonable since the evidence for the theory of evolution is mountainous. And it is obtained by several methods. The fact is that it is supported by scientific evidence. Let's say it is that sort of evidence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence

"Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical evidence and interpretation in accordance with scientific method. Standards for scientific evidence vary according to the field of inquiry, but the strength of scientific evidence is generally based on the results of statistical analysis and the strength of scientific controls."

So by those standards. Let's say that a scientist claims that no matter what the evidence is the theory of evolution is correct. Is he adhering to the scientific method?

Okay, I'll bite...No

Subduction Zone · Feb 26, 2016

Edmond Smith said:
Okay, I'll bite...No

Good, then what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander. One cannot claim to be doing scientific work while claiming "no matter what the Bible is right". Not only is the claim that the Bible is always right, but also that their interpretation of the Bible is right. If they required their workers to do that at AiG and other creationist sites I would hope that you can see that removes their work from the realm of science.

Subduction Zone · Feb 26, 2016

Here is part of the statement of faith the workers and volunteers at AiG have to agree to, bolding is mine:

"

Scripture teaches a recent origin for man and the whole creation, spanning approximately 4,000 years from creation to Christ.
The days in Genesis do not correspond to geologic ages, but are six [6] consecutive twenty-four [24] hour days of creation.
The Noachian Flood was a significant geological event and much (but not all) fossiliferous sediment originated at that time.
The gap theory has no basis in Scripture.
The view, commonly used to evade the implications or the authority of biblical teaching, that knowledge and/or truth may be divided into secular and religious, is rejected.
By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information."

https://answersingenesis.org/about/faith/

Do you see how they declare evidence to be wrong if it disagrees with their interpretation of the Bible? They go much further than the people at biologos.org do. They are actually quite reasonable. The claim that the Bible is right, but if there is a problem between science and a persons interpretation of the Bible it is most likely that the interpretation is wrong. AiG has declared themselves to be like the Pope. They think that their interpretation of the Bible is right no matter what. This goes a long way towards explaining their constant breaking of the Ninth Commandment.

AV1611VET · Feb 26, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
I don't care for your foolish, and dishonest, semantic games.

Was Paul playing "foolish and dishonest semantic games" when he addressed his epistles to "the saints"?

Subduction Zone said:
Like it or not you are a Christian.

Well ... you know what they say, don't you?

It was our antagonists who first called us Christians.

Acts 11:26b And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Subduction Zone said:
You don't get to make up your own words.

Ya ... made that up, didn't I?

I confess ... I threw some Scrabble™ letters down and they spelled "saint."

:doh:

AV1611VET · Feb 26, 2016

Subduction Zone said:
This goes a long way towards explaining their constant breaking of the Ninth Commandment.

And who gave us that Ninth Commandment?

homohabilis117 · Feb 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Do you have a problem with the police breaking speed limit laws when responding to a 911 call?I'm not sure that's the way He did it.

Which came first, the universe or its natural laws?Then explain this ...

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

... within the framework of what you just said.As it should.Thank you, but I don't need any examples.

I agree with you.

But, examples important, especially one: could God make 2+2=5?
If so, that would amount to God contradicting himself.
"For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed."
http://biblehub.com/malachi/3-6.htm
If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
http://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-13.htm
God not change, or deny self. Habilis liked this article. Mostly descirbes position on this issue:
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/law-noncontradiction/

Subduction Zone · Feb 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
Was Paul playing "foolish and dishonest semantic games" when he addressed his epistles to "the saints"?Well ... you know what they say, don't you?

Probably not, but that does not excuse your foolish and dishonest semantic games. You are not Paul.

It was our antagonists who first called us Christians.

Acts 11:26b And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.Ya ... made that up, didn't I?

Technically they were not called "Christians". You should know better. Once again you are playing silly and dishonest semantic games.

I confess ... I threw some Scrabble™ letters down and they spelled "saint."

What are you going to do if your God is real? I can see that you will never apologize for these sins. Aren't you in trouble in your faith if you do not own up to your sins?

Don't play silly games and people will treat you a lot better.

Subduction Zone · Feb 26, 2016

AV1611VET said:
And who gave us that Ninth Commandment?

AV, when I am referring to the Bible I am always referring to if it is true. We know that there was no Moses but that does not mean that they still can't follow the guidelines of their religion. When the people at AiG don't it makes them quite the hypocrites.

Habilis Wonders: How Squirrels Survive Noah's Flood With No Trees After?

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