Is the Church raptured? OR do we FLEE to a place of safety!? Find out!

Berean777

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We are talking about Matthew 24 and not Sodom and the context is very clear.

Noah and his family entered the Ark.

Matthew 24:38
For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;


The wicked are taken by the flood

Matthew 24:39
and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man

This verse immediately followed the two above:

Matthew 24:40
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

Clear as day light. Excellent!
 
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Berean777

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Context of taken is related to being watchful, meaning faithful unto death. This means that anyone who dies is taken from this life, to be judged according to the faith they have. If they strayed from the faith and suddenly died on a day and hour they were not expecting, then they are damned. So rapture or taken away is not from a physical sense, rather it is from the earthly realm sense to the heavenly realm, to be forever with the Lord as scripture states.

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2)

The apostle is speaking from human experience of being raptured or taken, that is he cannot compare the experience from an earthly sense of an object moving from point A to B, rather the apostle speaks of the resurrection of the body, when he says "we shall be like him". Paul states "for we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands." (2 Corinthians 5:1)

So the corruptible must put on incorruption and we become something else after we die. So in light of the verse above we are being taken from this life after our earthly body is dissolved, then we are judged and are given heavenly bodies, just like our risen Lord and then we can see him as he is in his glorified body, because now we have also put on the glorifed heavenly bodies and experience what we cannot experience, whilst we are in the earthly body.
 
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Berean777

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So the wicked and the good are raptured when their day and hour comes after they die, to be presented before the Lord for judgement.

A physical rapture of an earthly body to heaven is not biblical, because each realm has its own body as Paul states.....

35But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. (1 Corinthians 15:35-36)

So to ve taken or raptured to heaven your earthly body must die first.

40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

You cannot be raptured with your existing earthly bodies. Even those who are translated at the seventh trumpet call at the end of the harvest are in a twinkling of an eye dying and being raised to be forever with the Lord.

Another verse states that the Living shall not prevent the departed from being raised first. So each individual in turn after death is beholding the Lord's appearing.

The church from the 1st century until now and even to the end of the great harvest of God has been raptured countless times, where members of the body of Christ are departing this life to be reunited with the Lord in heaven. That is why so many Christians in the early centuries of Christianity were gladly going to their deaths at the hands of the enemy, knowing that death is what separates them from being reunited with their Lord, so they would die as martyrs and be raptured out of here.
 
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timewerx

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Which is a different Greek word and meaning than the one used in the "one TAKEN".

You mentioned the 3880 Lexicon before in regards to the English translation into "took" or "taken".

But again, in this link, we see that it has been utilized in different contexts that can be with either positive or negative meaning.T

http://biblehub.com/thayers/3880.htm

This came from the link:

1.to take to (cf. παρά, IV. 1), to take with oneself, to join to oneself: τινα, an associate, a companion, Matthew 17:1; Matthew 26:37; Mark 4:36; Mark 5:40; Mark 9:2; Mark 10:32; Luke 9:10, 28; Luke 11:26; Luke 18:31; Acts 15:39; in the passive, Matthew 24:40, 41; Luke 17:34-36; one to be led off as a prisoner, John 19:16; Acts 23:18; to take with one in order to carry away,
 
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timewerx

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Lot's story is also part of this:

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.


You should have continued reading up to Luke 17:36-37 and then it will be undeniably clear.

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."37And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."


Pay attention closely, the audience weren't asking Christ where the man who was left is.... Christ already mentioned they were in the field..... Thus, the whereabouts of the the man who was left is clear - he is on the field.

They were asking where the other man was taken. And Christ's answer was no less than horrifying - where they go, the vultures will be gathered. It means the people who were taken will be set apart for extermination.
 
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Berean777

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You should have continued reading up to Luke 17:36-37 and then it will be undeniably clear.

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."37And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."


Pay attention closely, the audience weren't asking Christ where the man who was left is.... Christ already mentioned they were in the field..... Thus, the whereabouts of the the man who was left is clear - he is on the field.

They were asking where the other man was taken. And Christ's answer was no less than horrifying - where they go, the vultures will be gathered. It means the people who were taken will be set apart for extermination.

That is right, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

This can be rewritten as where the dead corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered.

The theme of taken away is death, which is where the vultures gather. In the middle eastern location, those burying their dead notice the vultures gathering above. So it is a funeral procession along with the gathering overhead of the vultures who see something dead below. This expression would have been understood by the Jewish culture of those days who burried their dead, as they saw the prying eyes of vultures flying above on the dead corpse in the open casket procession, before the person would be wrapped in cloth and then entombed, in the final resting place or buriel ground.
 
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Berean777

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The thief is the symbol of death. The thief/death destroys the earthly house, that is the earthly body.

It is the advent of death itself that comes on a day and hour, that the individual least expects it, to snatch him away from this life. This is the point where the appearing of Christ will be for that departed individual, whether he is good or bad. Remember Paul stated the living by no way shall prevent the departed from being judged and raised to glory, if they stayed the course onto death and kept the faith. This is the watchfullness that Jesus warned believers about, that is, to be vigilant in faith and not to be complacent as if that day and hour will never come upon that individual being taken from this life.
 
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Berean777

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That is why the context of the rapture along with the Lord's appearing has been greatly misunderstood as being some earthly spectacle that the living will also witness. The confusion of the Lord's appearing is with the Lord's brilliant coming after the great and terrible day of the Lord. If you read Paul's epistle he instructs the believers a longingness for the day of the Lord's appearing as compared to Peter's dread of the terrible day of the Lord.
 
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ewq1938

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You should have continued reading up to Luke 17:36-37 and then it will be undeniably clear.

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."37And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

I've read the entire book. The ones taken symbolize those raptured to meet Christ as he descends and the war of Rev 19 takes place where we read of birds feasting on dead bodies of the enemy...those not raptured which means they are the unsaved ones.


Pay attention closely, the audience weren't asking Christ where the man who was left is.... Christ already mentioned they were in the field..... Thus, the whereabouts of the the man who was left is clear - he is on the field.

Which supports my view and debunks yours. The man left/rejected are those who are the unsaved and they die "in the field" in Rev 19.


They were asking where the other man was taken. And Christ's answer was no less than horrifying - where they go, the vultures will be gathered. It means the people who were taken will be set apart for extermination.

Nope, they see the ones left behind/rejected by Christ suffer that fate.

Are you going to continue to avoid the Greek definitions of take and left? I assume you will since they disprove your theory.
 
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ewq1938

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You mentioned the 3880 Lexicon before in regards to the English translation into "took" or "taken".

But again, in this link, we see that it has been utilized in different contexts that can be with either positive or negative meaning.T

http://biblehub.com/thayers/3880.htm

This came from the link:

When TAKEN is used opposed to LEFT, the word TAKEN is in the positive connotation and LEFT is in the negative.

taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"



left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
are "kept no longer".






Who was TAKEN into the Ark?
Who was LEFT outside the Ark?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Who was TAKEN out of Sodom?
Who was LEFT in Sodom?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean to accept as a companion and does NOT mean to reject and leave to die?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi means to reject and leave someone to die and does NOT mean to accept as a companion?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean you survive?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean you do not survive?
 
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timewerx

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Are you going to continue to avoid the Greek definitions of take and left? I assume you will since they disprove your theory.

Yes, I just looked at Strong's 863 (left-out):

http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/863.htm

It gave me this from the link:

lay aside, leave, let go, omit

From apo and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi, to go); to send forth, in various applications (as follow) -- cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.


Both Forgive and remit are positive meanings. And if we use them in context, it is unlikely your context is true, especially in Luke 17:36-37.

Why would the audience ask about the whereabouts of those who were left when Christ already said where they were - right where they stood, at work, in the field, etc. Obviously, those who were left will be everywhere... really pointless to ask where would they be...

They are obviously asking about the fate of those who will be taken.

Besides, you only need to take out the evil people off the Earth and the Earth will become paradise overnight. And the Bible also said, the children of God will inherit the works of the corrupt men, that is their houses, their cars, their planes, their ships----of course, that won't be possible if God carpet-bombed the whole face of the Earth. The Earth will be left intact for the children of God. I don't know for you but that is one huge playground and that is incredibly exciting!
 
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ewq1938

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Yes, I just looked at Strong's 863 (left-out):

http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/863.htm

It gave me this from the link:

lay aside, leave, let go, omit

From apo and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi, to go); to send forth, in various applications (as follow) -- cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.


Both Forgive and remit are positive meanings.

No they aren't. A sin is forgiven, which means removed ie:destroyed. A person doesn't want to be forgiven, they want their SINS forgiven.

Nice try tho...one countless others have also mistakenly made because they didn't understand the language used.
 
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timewerx

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A person doesn't want to be forgiven

I have not met at least one Christian who doesn't want to be forgiven so you lost me there...

Pretty sure at one point of my many prayers, I asked God to "forgive me" not, "forgive my sins".

Granted the popular "sinner's prayer" states "forgive my sins". I'm pretty sure if you ask any Christian that they be forgiven (not just their sins), they will agree to it.
 
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ewq1938

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I have not met at least one Christian who doesn't want to be forgiven so you lost me there...

Pretty sure at one point of my many prayers, I asked God to "forgive me" not, "forgive my sins".

Granted the popular "sinner's prayer" states "forgive my sins". I'm pretty sure if you ask any Christian that they be forgiven (not just their sins), they will agree to it.

So, I assume you won't or can't delve into this any further? It's actually a very simplistic study into the Greek language.
 
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MerriestHouse

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Matthew 13:37 He answered, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, 42 and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."

The harvest at the close of the Old Covenant Age, in the first century.

The ones taken were thrown into the fire.

There is no end to the New Covenant Age of Christ. Luke 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."
 
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timewerx

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Nice try tho...one countless others have also mistakenly made because they didn't understand the language used.

I read your post of Strong's 863 (left). They were not all negative and many were neutral statements. The same thing also applied to 3880 (taken).

I'm hoping you're not counting the number of negative vs positive meanings and solely use that as reference. You must take it in the context of the entire verse because the meaning could change depending on how it was used....
 
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timewerx

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Matthew 13:37 He answered, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, 42 and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."

The harvest at the close of the Old Covenant Age, in the first century.

The ones taken were thrown into the fire.

There is no end to the New Covenant Age of Christ. Luke 1:33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end."

I agree with you about the taken being brought out.

But when is this "first century" literal 1st century?? Are you saying there are no more evildoers and no more that causes sin in the world today because I'm finding it hard to believe. Actually, if you think there are no more evildoers, you are believing a lie. And Satan is good at twisting the Truth so many would believe the opposite of what is already far too obvious in front of you.
 
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MerriestHouse

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I agree with you about the taken being brought out.

But when is this "first century" literal 1st century?? Are you saying there are no more evildoers and no more that causes sin in the world today because I'm finding it hard to believe. Actually, if you think there are no more evildoers, you are believing a lie. And Satan is good at twisting the Truth so many would believe the opposite of what is already far too obvious in front of you.

I was pointing out that in Scripture, being "taken" can be a good thing or a bad thing, and being "left" can be a good thing or a bad thing. It depends on the context.

Yes there are evildoer in the world, but they are outside of the kingdom.

Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood.
 
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ewq1938

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I read your post of Strong's 863 (left). They were not all negative and many were neutral statements. The same thing also applied to 3880 (taken).

When the two are compared as opposites, taken is positive and left is negative.

Even the supposed negative examples of taken are actually not such as being arrested....that is a non-violent taking like when a Sheriff safely and soundly brings a person to jail. It is completely opposite of being killed or anything like that.

You also aren't recognizing that the taken action is done first in all examples and is always directed at the righteous, while the left is last and always directed at the unrighteous. That's where you err.
 
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Berean777

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Both the good and the wicked are given the same warning related to a day and hour that they both will face unexpectedly that will snatch them away from what they are doing in the earthly body.

Scripture states all men are destined to die once then judgement. The judgement is the Lord's appearing for that individual, on that day and hour. No one knows when they will die. So when the wicked person says the Lord delays his appearing, we see that the complacency of that individual who continues to live in sin, doesn't consider that he will die before he is able to reconcile himself back to God, from his vial ways.

So the day and hour will take the good and the wicked by surprise. Noah knew all along that the floods are coming, even when he entered the ark he knew that it was that day, so this destroys the notion of nobody knowing the day and hour. Lot knew all along that the city will be burnt and they needed to get the hell out of dodge city. So the notion of Lot knowing the day destroys the statement that no one knows the day and hour.

If we consider the facts before us, we see that no one knows that day or the hour, then the only possibility of an individual being complacent as to the day and hour of his snatching is the departure from normal life activities of the earthly body, because no one actually believes that they will die any time soon. The human mind is like a preservation filter that continues to delude all to think that today or this hour is not their day and hour. They cannot accept the shock of it, that this is actually happening to them, that they will die.
 
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