Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

stuart lawrence · Feb 14, 2016

ImAllLikeOkWaitWhat said:
Are they not christians? Do they not believe in romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

They like me are Christians whether you like it or not for we are saved.

There could be nothing more absurd than to think that to be a christian you have to believe in the trinity when the bible never says that. It says believe Jesus is lord and that with all your heart God raised him from the dead. Thats what scripture says. If men say believe in the trinity or you aren't saved who am I to believe?

They are led of their natural minds. In effect they believe in a trinity of father, son and the academic mind.

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat · Feb 14, 2016

redleghunter said:
What made the blood of Christ an acceptable sacrifice for our sins?

The fact that he was without spot or blemish both from his dna and his behavior. He was the perfect sacrifice. Why ask me a silly question?

Righttruth · Feb 14, 2016

Chriliman said:
He and the Father are One, are they not?

In one accord, like, husband and wife becoming one flesh.

Righttruth · Feb 14, 2016

Chriliman said:
But the words of Jesus are the words of the Father, are they not?

Jesus said Father is greater than Him, and Father is God for Him and us.

stuart lawrence · Feb 14, 2016

redleghunter said:
Who is speaking in Isaiah 44:6?

Christ speaking the words of God as the angel did from the bush.

Who is speaking when he said the father is greater than I, and the father is the only true God?

Don't you think you should believe him?

Chriliman · Feb 14, 2016

Righttruth said:
In one accord, like, husband and wife becoming one flesh.

Agreed, and just like in a marriage the husband is the leader, but this does not mean the wife is not human.

God the Father is the leader, but this does not mean Jesus the Son is not God, especially since they are One God, inseparable. Just like husband and wife are one flesh, inseparable.

Chriliman · Feb 14, 2016

Righttruth said:
Jesus said Father is greater than Him, and Father is God for Him and us.

Right, Jesus calls the Father God and God's word calls the Son God.

John 20:28 - Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Romans 9:5 - ...Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13-15 - ...our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 1:8 - But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever…

2 Peter 1:1 - ...the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ…

Could it be that God's ways are above our ways and we simply can't fully grasp how both the Father can be truly God and the Son can be truly God?

Philippians 2:6
"who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,"

Righttruth · Feb 14, 2016

Chriliman said:
Agreed, and just like in a marriage the husband is the leader, but this does not mean the wife is not human.

God the Father is the leader, but this does not mean Jesus the Son is not God, especially since they are One God, inseparable. Just like husband and wife are one flesh, inseparable.

There is only one God, like, one husband. God the Father and the Son have the same essence; it doesn't mean they are same and equal.

Righttruth · Feb 14, 2016

Chriliman said:
Right, Jesus calls the Father God and God's word calls the Son God.

John 20:28 - Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Romans 9:5 - ...Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13-15 - ...our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 1:8 - But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever…

2 Peter 1:1 - ...the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ…

Could it be that God's ways are above our ways and we simply can't fully grasp how both the Father can be truly God and the Son can be truly God?

Philippians 2:6
"who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,"

That is the reason to accept what is plainly revealed in the Bible instead of pure speculations! Jesus is not the Father.

Chriliman · Feb 14, 2016

Righttruth said:
That is the reason to accept what is plainly revealed in the Bible instead of pure speculations! Jesus is not the Father.

The Father is in Jesus and Jesus in the Father, as One. So saying Jesus is not the Father is unnecessary when understanding God.

I'd suggest you stop saying it, but you're free to do as you please. I pray God would help us unite under His Truth.

royal priest · Feb 14, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
You are as good as saying God is an angel, even the JWS don't go that far!! Who ACTUALLY appeared to Moses from the burning bush???? So who did God speak through to Moses???

He was sent to be their leader and deliverer by God himself THROUGH the ANGEL who appeared to him in the bush Acts 7:35

So God spoke the words I AM through the angel.
Congratulations, you have now gone further than the jws and are beyond mainstream Christianity!

Can we be sure this angel is an actual angel and not Yahweh Himself appearing in the mere form of an angel? The reason I ask is because there are a few accounts in the OT which indicate the Lord Himself appeared in the form of that one who is called specifically, ‘the angel of the Lord’.

For instance, in Genesis 16, the ‘angel of the Lord’ appears before Hagar and makes promises to her speaking in the first person tense. There is no indication that this angel is a messenger, sent to speak on behalf of the Lord, but is the Lord Himself, appearing in the form of the angel.

Consider also, in Genesis 18, three men (referred to as angels in chapter 19) arrive at Abraham’s tent. It is clear from the context that one of them is the Lord (two continue down to Sodom while the other, the Lord, stays to converse directly with Abraham).

This is also indicated by the angel of the Lord speaking as the Lord, Himself, to Balaam in Numbers 22.

Scripture adds to these indications that the angel of the Lord is the Lord appearing in the form of an angel by demonstrating that he does not refuse worship rendered unto him whereas, in John's case for instance, the angel had refused to be worshiped. Revelation 22:8-9
Foe example, when Jacob wrestled with a man and conversed with him as with God, he set a memorial according to his declaration, “I have seen God face to face!” Genesis 32:30
Manoah and his wife understood the angel of the Lord to be a manifestation of the Lord, Himself, "we have seen God!" Judges 13:21-22
Joshua fell upon his face and the ‘captain of the hosts of the Lord’ received his worship and commands him to remove his sandals. Joshua 5:14-15

Based on at least these arguments we have reason to believe this is why Exodus 3:6 tells us Moses was afraid to behold the face of God in the bush.

Chriliman · Feb 14, 2016

royal priest said:
Can we be sure this angel is an actual angel and not Yahweh Himself appearing in the mere form of an angel? The reason I ask is because there are a few accounts in the OT which indicate the Lord Himself appeared in the form of that one who is called specifically, ‘the angel of the Lord’.

For instance, in Genesis 16, the ‘angel of the Lord’ appears before Hagar and makes promises to her speaking in the first person tense. There is no indication that this angel is a messenger, sent to speak on behalf of the Lord, but is the Lord Himself, appearing in the form of the angel.

Consider also, in Genesis 18, three men (referred to as angels in chapter 19) arrive at Abraham’s tent. It is clear from the context that one of them is the Lord (two continue down to Sodom while the other, the Lord, stays to converse directly with Abraham).

This is also indicated by the angel of the Lord speaking as the Lord, Himself, to Balaam in Numbers 22.

Scripture adds to these indications that the angel of the Lord is the Lord appearing in the form of an angel by demonstrating that he does not refuse worship rendered unto him whereas, in John's case for instance, the angel had refused to be worshiped. Revelation 22:8-9
Foe example, when Jacob wrestled with a man and conversed with him as with God, he set a memorial according to his declaration, “I have seen God face to face!” Genesis 32:30
Manoah and his wife understood the angel of the Lord to be a manifestation of the Lord, Himself, "we have seen God!" Judges 13:21-22
Joshua fell upon his face and the ‘captain of the hosts of the Lord’ received his worship and commands him to remove his sandals. Joshua 5:14-15

Based on at least these arguments we have reason to believe this is why Exodus 3:6 tells us Moses was afraid to behold the face of God in the bush.

Very interesting! Thank you!

stuart lawrence · Feb 14, 2016

royal priest said:
Can we be sure this angel is an actual angel and not Yahweh Himself appearing in the mere form of an angel? The reason I ask is because there are a few accounts in the OT which indicate the Lord Himself appeared in the form of that one who is called specifically, ‘the angel of the Lord’.

For instance, in Genesis 16, the ‘angel of the Lord’ appears before Hagar and makes promises to her speaking in the first person tense. There is no indication that this angel is a messenger, sent to speak on behalf of the Lord, but is the Lord Himself, appearing in the form of the angel.

Consider also, in Genesis 18, three men (referred to as angels in chapter 19) arrive at Abraham’s tent. It is clear from the context that one of them is the Lord (two continue down to Sodom while the other, the Lord, stays to converse directly with Abraham).

This is also indicated by the angel of the Lord speaking as the Lord, Himself, to Balaam in Numbers 22.

Scripture adds to these indications that the angel of the Lord is the Lord appearing in the form of an angel by demonstrating that he does not refuse worship rendered unto him whereas, in John's case for instance, the angel had refused to be worshiped. Revelation 22:8-9
Foe example, when Jacob wrestled with a man and conversed with him as with God, he set a memorial according to his declaration, “I have seen God face to face!” Genesis 32:30
Manoah and his wife understood the angel of the Lord to be a manifestation of the Lord, Himself, "we have seen God!" Judges 13:21-22
Joshua fell upon his face and the ‘captain of the hosts of the Lord’ received his worship and commands him to remove his sandals. Joshua 5:14-15

Based on at least these arguments we have reason to believe this is why Exodus 3:6 tells us Moses was afraid to behold the face of God in the bush.

But in this instance scripture plainly states God himself sent Moses to be the leader and deliver of the Israelites THROUGH the angel who appeared to him in the bush Acts7:35.

Just means anyone would be wise not to try and state john 8:58 is reason to believe Christ is God himself.

Chriliman · Feb 14, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
But in this instance scripture plainly states God himself sent Moses to be the leader and deliver of the Israelites THROUGH the angel who appeared to him in the bush Acts7:35.

Just means anyone would be wise not to try and state john 8:58 is reason to believe Christ is God himself.

If you want to be like Christ, stop saying He is not God because even He Himself did not say this. He did say that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him, as One and I believe that to be true, do you?

stuart lawrence · Feb 14, 2016

Chriliman said:
If you want to be like Christ, stop saying He is not God because even He Himself did not say this. He did say that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him, as One and I believe that to be true, do you?

You are letting yourself down with the above. Christ plainly stated the father is the only true God and greater than he. I would hardly be following Christ or seeking his life more in me if I refused to accept what he plainly stated. Please read john 17:19-23 concerning Christ and the father being one and in each other, especially verse 22. I have recently written a post on it

royal priest · Feb 14, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
But in this instance scripture plainly states God himself sent Moses to be the leader and deliver of the Israelites THROUGH the angel who appeared to him in the bush Acts7:35.

Just means anyone would be wise not to try and state john 8:58 is reason to believe Christ is God himself.

As a trinitarian, I take Scripture as saying, God (Father, Son, Spirit) sent Moses.

Chriliman · Feb 14, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
You are letting yourself down with the above. Christ plainly stated the father is the only true God and greater than he. I would hardly be following Christ or seeking his life more in me if I refused to accept what he plainly stated. Please read john 17:19-23 concerning Christ and the father being one and in each other, especially verse 22. I have recently written a post on it

Don't you think that if Jesus was not to be worshiped as the Father is worshiped, He would of said right of the bat "Hey guys, I am the son of God, but don't worship me, worship my Father alone" You would think that if it is true that Jesus is not to be worshiped as the Father is worshiped then He would have said something to that effect so that it is clear. Instead we have Jesus accepting worship all throughout the NT.

Matthew 2:11: And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him.

Matthew 14:33: And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9-10: And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Matthew 28:16-17: Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.

Luke 24:51: While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.52 And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy

John 9:37-38: Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you.”38 He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

Hebrews 1:6: And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Revelation 22:3: No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

Only the true God is worthy of our worship, right? So to exclude Jesus from being worshipped as God would require us to exclude these verses from the Bible where He is being worshiped as God.

I'd rather keep these verses and just accept the truth that God the Father wants us to worship His Son as Himself because Jesus is in the Father and Father is in Jesus.

Can you accept this truth?

stuart lawrence · Feb 14, 2016

royal priest said:
As a trinitarian, I take Scripture as saying, God (Father, Son, Spirit) sent Moses.

So I guess you believe father, son and holy spirit sent the son to die on the cross. Hmmmm

stuart lawrence · Feb 14, 2016

Chriliman said:
Don't you think that if Jesus was not to be worshiped as the Father is worshiped, He would of said right of the bat "Hey guys, I am the son of God, but don't worship me, worship my Father alone" You would think that if it is true that Jesus is not to be worshiped as the Father is worshiped then He would have said something to that effect so that it is clear. Instead we have Jesus accepting worship all throughout the NT.

Matthew 2:11: And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him.

Matthew 14:33: And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9-10: And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Matthew 28:16-17: Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.

Luke 24:51: While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.52 And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy

John 9:37-38: Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you.”38 He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

Hebrews 1:6: And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Revelation 22:3: No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

Only the true God is worthy of our worship, right? So to exclude Jesus from being worshipped as God would require us to exclude these verses from the Bible where He is being worshiped as God.

I'd rather keep these verses and just accept the truth that God the Father wants us to worship His Son as Himself because Jesus is in the Father and Father is in Jesus.

Can you accept this truth?

You are in your element aren't you? Ignore the plain words of Christ and try and theologise a belief from various verses of scripture to ignore the plainly written word. Still, if you accepted the plain and simple words of Christ you would be robbed of your favourite passtime!
Render unto ceaser what is ceasers and unto God what is God's

We should worship the father as the one true God and his son as our lord and saviour

royal priest · Feb 14, 2016

stuart lawrence said:
So I guess you believe father, son and holy spirit sent the son to die on the cross. Hmmmm

Yes, how else could it have happened?

Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

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