ST. SYMEON THE NEW THEOLOGIAN

I have returned from a 4000 road mile monastery trip, and on it I picked up some books [no surprise there!] and one of them was St. Symeon's:

Has anyone read this little book?

I started reading it, not having read all that much of St. Symeon, and was stunned in a very good way at what I found, and was thinking of posting some of its paragraphs for discussion...

I am new enough here to not know if we even are permitted to quote whole paragraphs from published works, or if anyone thinks it would even be a good idea to do so for discussion...

So I will await some responses...

Arsenios

gzt said:

St Symeon is great.

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Have you read this particular work?

I had never encountered the contours of his thinking before...

Arsenios

~Anastasia~ said:

There is a percentage rule of how much of a work may be quoted, but afaik a paragraph or two from an entire book should not be a problem. The work should be cited and credited.

I think it's a great idea.

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Thanks, A. - Maybe tomorrow after Liturgy...

The other A.

Gxg (G²) said:

Would love to hear some of the things from the book you read There's one book I am about to get my hands on from the series on Patristics I've enjoyed - called On the Mystical Life: The Ethical Discourses - Volume 3

Growing up in the Charismatic world originally, St Symeon is one of the saints I was first made aware of when starting to study Orthodoxy - St. Symeon always reminds me of the workings of God's Spirit and how powerfully he moves - and there were some interesting reads on the work he was for when it came to how personal the Holy Spirit is:

• St. Symeon the New Theologian : Cup & Cross Ministries
• Theophany as Light
• The Word Became Flesh Saint Symeon the New Theologian
• St. Symeon The New Theologian Speaks - Simply Orthodox ...
• Venerable Simeon the New Theologian - Orthodox Church .
• The Pope on Symeon the New Theologian | Eirenikon
• The Body of Christ: Saint Symeon the New Theologian on the Spiritual Life AND THE HIERARCHICAL CHURCH...
• A Neglected Masterpiece of the Christian Mystical Tradition : The ‘Hymns of Divine Eros’ by Symeon the New Theologian (949-1022)

• Gene Mills : The Baptism of Tears: The Two Baptisms of St. Symeon the New Theologian - Quodlibet Journal

​

I remember first coming across St. Symeon after intially learning of him from Greek Orthodox priest Fr. Eusebius A. Stephanou with the Brotherhood of St. Symeon the New Theologian of the Orthodox Renewal Center (as Fr. Eusebius was a praised and recognized priest, and former teacher at Holy Cross Seminary). St. Symeon the New Theologian is unique in how he was a bit radical in some of his views on the Holy Spirit compared to others. ...even though he was one who was mentored by one of the most famous Holy Fools (Symeon the Pious ) and whose authority for many of his teachings derived from the traditions of the Desert Fathers/ early Christian monks and ascetics.

Do not say that it is impossible to receive the Spirit of God. Do not say that it is possible to be made whole without Him. Do not say that one can possess Him without knowing it. Do not say that God does not manifest Himself to man. Do not say that men cannot perceive the divine light, or that it is impossible in this age! Never is it found to be impossible, my friends. On the contrary, it is entirely possible when one desires it” (Hymn 27, 125-132).

The Father is light, the Son is light, the Holy Spirit is light.
Watch what you say, brother, watch lest you go astray!
For the Three are one light, one, not separated,
but united in three persons without confusion.

For God is wholly undivided by nature
and in essence He is truly beyond all essence.
He is not split in power, nor in form, nor in glory,
nor in appearance, for He is contemplated entirely as simple light.

In these the persons are one, the three hypostases are one.
For the Three are in the one, or rather the Three are one,
the Three are one power, the Three are one glory,
the Three are one nature, one essence, and one divinity.

And these are the one light that illuminates the world,
not the world, perish the thought, not this visible world
—for this visible world has not known Him, nor is it
able to know, nor can the friends of the world,
for the one who loves the world is an enemy of God, but we call “the world” that which God has made human
according to his image and likeness,
because one is adorned with virtues, one rules terrestrial beings; just as God has authority over the universe,
so also one reigns over the passions according to this image,
and subjugates demons, the craftsmen of evils,
and tramples underfoot the dragon, the primeval, the huge
dragon like a common sparrow. And how? Listen child!

This fallen prince immediately found himself in darkness
because he was deprived of the light; he is now in darkness
with all those who fell with him from heaven;
he reigns in it—certainly in the darkness I say—
over demons and humans who are held in the darkness.

Every soul who does not see the light of life shining
both in the day and night is punished by the prince of darkness:
wounded, subdued, dragged, and enchained,
and stabbed daily by the darts of pleasure.

Even if the soul seems to resist, even if she seems not to fall,
but still she always has an irreconcilable war with him
in much sweat, toil, trouble, and hardship.

But every soul who contemplates the divine light,
from whence the evil prince has fallen, despises the evil one,
and once enlightened by the unapproachable light itself,
then the soul tramples underfoot the prince of darkness like a leaf
fallen on the ground from a high tree.

For she is in darkness where he has power and authority,
but in the light he becomes an utterly dead corpse.

- Symeon the New Theologian (949–1022 AD): from Hymn 33.​

​

Click to expand...

Thank you - This discussion could get way better than I had dared hope...

A related Spirit might be Aimilianos, yes?

eg Being willing to "go there" in written words,
and not only in Spirit where the words then become coded, as it were...
The mark of prior mystical writers...

The "New" being this 'more public' revelation of Spiritual events and their meaning...

Great resources - Thanks...

Are you at St. Vlad's?

Arsenios

Gxg (G²) said:

Would love to hear some of the things from the book you read There's one book I am about to get my hands on from the series on Patristics I've enjoyed - called On the Mystical Life: The Ethical Discourses - Volume 3

Growing up in the Charismatic world originally, St Symeon is one of the saints I was first made aware of when starting to study Orthodoxy - St. Symeon always reminds me of the workings of God's Spirit and how powerfully he moves - and there were some interesting reads on the work he was for when it came to how personal the Holy Spirit is:

• St. Symeon the New Theologian : Cup & Cross Ministries
• Theophany as Light
• The Word Became Flesh Saint Symeon the New Theologian
• St. Symeon The New Theologian Speaks - Simply Orthodox ...
• Venerable Simeon the New Theologian - Orthodox Church .
• The Pope on Symeon the New Theologian | Eirenikon
• The Body of Christ: Saint Symeon the New Theologian on the Spiritual Life AND THE HIERARCHICAL CHURCH...
• A Neglected Masterpiece of the Christian Mystical Tradition : The ‘Hymns of Divine Eros’ by Symeon the New Theologian (949-1022)

• Gene Mills : The Baptism of Tears: The Two Baptisms of St. Symeon the New Theologian - Quodlibet Journal

​

I remember first coming across St. Symeon after intially learning of him from Greek Orthodox priest Fr. Eusebius A. Stephanou with the Brotherhood of St. Symeon the New Theologian of the Orthodox Renewal Center (as Fr. Eusebius was a praised and recognized priest, and former teacher at Holy Cross Seminary). St. Symeon the New Theologian is unique in how he was a bit radical in some of his views on the Holy Spirit compared to others. ...even though he was one who was mentored by one of the most famous Holy Fools (Symeon the Pious ) and whose authority for many of his teachings derived from the traditions of the Desert Fathers/ early Christian monks and ascetics.

Do not say that it is impossible to receive the Spirit of God. Do not say that it is possible to be made whole without Him. Do not say that one can possess Him without knowing it. Do not say that God does not manifest Himself to man. Do not say that men cannot perceive the divine light, or that it is impossible in this age! Never is it found to be impossible, my friends. On the contrary, it is entirely possible when one desires it” (Hymn 27, 125-132).

The Father is light, the Son is light, the Holy Spirit is light.
Watch what you say, brother, watch lest you go astray!
For the Three are one light, one, not separated,
but united in three persons without confusion.

For God is wholly undivided by nature
and in essence He is truly beyond all essence.
He is not split in power, nor in form, nor in glory,
nor in appearance, for He is contemplated entirely as simple light.

In these the persons are one, the three hypostases are one.
For the Three are in the one, or rather the Three are one,
the Three are one power, the Three are one glory,
the Three are one nature, one essence, and one divinity.

And these are the one light that illuminates the world,
not the world, perish the thought, not this visible world
—for this visible world has not known Him, nor is it
able to know, nor can the friends of the world,
for the one who loves the world is an enemy of God, but we call “the world” that which God has made human
according to his image and likeness,
because one is adorned with virtues, one rules terrestrial beings; just as God has authority over the universe,
so also one reigns over the passions according to this image,
and subjugates demons, the craftsmen of evils,
and tramples underfoot the dragon, the primeval, the huge
dragon like a common sparrow. And how? Listen child!

This fallen prince immediately found himself in darkness
because he was deprived of the light; he is now in darkness
with all those who fell with him from heaven;
he reigns in it—certainly in the darkness I say—
over demons and humans who are held in the darkness.

Every soul who does not see the light of life shining
both in the day and night is punished by the prince of darkness:
wounded, subdued, dragged, and enchained,
and stabbed daily by the darts of pleasure.

Even if the soul seems to resist, even if she seems not to fall,
but still she always has an irreconcilable war with him
in much sweat, toil, trouble, and hardship.

But every soul who contemplates the divine light,
from whence the evil prince has fallen, despises the evil one,
and once enlightened by the unapproachable light itself,
then the soul tramples underfoot the prince of darkness like a leaf
fallen on the ground from a high tree.

For she is in darkness where he has power and authority,
but in the light he becomes an utterly dead corpse.

- Symeon the New Theologian (949–1022 AD): from Hymn 33.​

​

Click to expand...

Thank you - This discussion could get way better than I had dared hope...

A related Spirit might be Aimilianos, yes?

eg Being willing to "go there" in written words,
and not only in Spirit where the words then become coded, as it were...
The mark of prior mystical writers...

The "New" being this 'more public' revelation of Spiritual events and their meaning...

Great resources - Thanks...

Arsenios

So here is the paragraph taken from the Introduction that pretty much riveted my attention:


The Ethical Discourses represents St. Symeon’s single most sustained
attempt to set out for a wide readership his thought on the two issues
that moved him throughout both his public and private life:
First, the direct experience of God in Christ as the Good News
which is offered to the believer in this life
and, second, its corollary, that there are those,
like Symeon the Pious and our Symeon himself,
who have experienced this same reality and, with it,
all the charismata afforded the Apostles and great saints of the past.
The Gospel is never a “deposit” for him, never something to be looked back toward.
It is always contemporary, continually renewed in the Holy Spirit, and one may,
rather must, live in it now just as fully as the holy ones of old.
The latter enjoy no special privilege.
The Apostles and Saints are not “envious”.
Their experience should be ours as well.
Both they and we, modern Christians, partake of a single new reality, the Church,
which is the Body of Christ and presence here-below of the world to come.

This is perhaps the hardest concept to convey to Protestants in conversations and discussions. Those who understand it, and get it, normally are immediately desiring Baptism. I serve in a Mission Church, and we are constantly looking for good ways to evangellize the Good News of the Gospel, and this seems very fertile. I must say, so far at least, that the best way we have found so far is labors and services and prayers, and not so much in encounters and discussions.


Arsenios

I am still fairly buried in gxg's online resources, and have ordered vol 2 and will go to Vlad's for 3, so this is a very much active thread... The two priesthoods of Christianity is becoming more and more apparent - The Administrative and the Holy... Where they should overlap, but so often do not do so... Big-time read!

Aaron and Melchisedek.

Arsenios

One of my long held questions in this Faith concerns the Second Coming of Christ, which I have been wondering about since I first encountered and entered it, which is this:

We all know and understand that Christ will come again in Glory at the end of time for the great and dread Last Judgement marking the end of this Age of Good and evil... But my question is, is it ALSO the return of Christ to the one whom He foreknew and Called to Him, following His gradual withdrawal of Grace from that person that he should enter into Him more deeply?

I have a feeling Symeon will address this issue...

Arsenios

ArmyMatt said:

if I am reading you right that seems like the teaching. our growth occurs when God seems to withdraw and we feel dry spiritually. if it was all sunshine and rainbows our faith would never make it out of the shallows.

Click to expand...

Another from our reading tonight:

"Without trials, there is no salvation."

Arsenios

So I am approaching the end of the First Ethical Discourse - Which is sort of a chapter in the book...
It is hard for me to keep on reading -
I mean, it is too much...
He is, ostensively answering the question:
"Will the Saints recognize each other in heaven, or after the Second Coming?"
In truth, he is doing so much more than answering this question -
He is giving the BASIS for its answer,
which itself invalidates the person's basis for asking it who is asking it,
and then thinking they can answer yes or no
and then give reasons for their opinions...

I mean, the answer is obviously "Yes...",
but it is not exactly a multiple-guess question...
with 'a' through 'd' or 'none of the above' answers...
and you circle the 'right' answer...

And reading him is like a rookie 19 year old facing Catfish Hunter in his prime -
or some reverse, mind you -
because he keeps throwing impossible pitches to hit -
or hits home runs off pitches way off the plate -
and you just have to stop, and back off,
and get your bearings,
or get nailed with another Ace...

Let me just give you one small example: EKSTASIS

In two sentences:
"Ecstasy is only the beginning of Glory..."
And...
"Ecstasy is for beginners..."

And these two after the allegory of the prisoner...
The Prodigal was a prisoner...
In a very dark room...
Feeding pigs...
Starving...

Oh don't get me started...

Arsenios