Socialism on the rise?

Smidlee

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Well, if you make an above average income by all means share it willingly, but that is not socialism.
Exactly. Socialism is what's yours is mine mentality while charity is what's mine is yours.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Exactly. Socialism is what's yours is mine mentality while charity is what's mine is yours.
and charity involves being willing to give it and it can come in a gift or a loan.
 
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greenguzzi

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Well, if you make an above average income by all means share it willingly, but that is not socialism.
What's your point? What I do with my money is totally irrelevant to the discussion as to what socialism or capitalism is, or what their merits may or not be. Try to stay on topic.
 
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dogs4thewin

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What's your point? What I do with my money is totally irrelevant to the discussion as to what socialism or capitalism is, or what their merits may or not be. Try to stay on topic.
What you do with your money is up to you and it should not be the case that we have socialist ideals share if you want, but it should not be required.
 
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Belk

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It's called competition. If you hate your job or what it pays then find a better one. I've been through more than a few and it works every time: whoever offers the best wages for my time gets my employment.

It's not the government's job to tell businesses what to pay or how they should run their company. Citizens and employees determine what they feel is fair. If they have poor working conditions and bad wages then don't work there and don't spend your money on their products.


So it is not governments business to tell companies it is wrong to hire illegal aliens and pay them lower wages?
 
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greenguzzi

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Exactly. Socialism is what's yours is mine mentality ...
No, that is NOT what socialism is about. Quite the opposite in fact. You have been fooled.
 
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greenguzzi

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What you do with your money is up to you and it should not be the case that we have socialist ideals share if you want, but it should not be required.
Again, what you describe is NOT socialism. In fact what you describe better fits capitalism.

Capitalism has resulted in unearned and unfair wealth redistribution, it needs to be stopped. Socialism attempts to stop forced wealth redistribution. You have it upside down.
 
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greenguzzi

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It's quite disturbing the number of people posting here who are impassioned opponents of socialism, yet clearly don't have the first clue about even the basics of socialism.
By all means show your opposition to socialism. However, putting up straw-men and then knocking them down doesn't advance the debate one iota.

I am pushing the idea of socialism, not because I think it's the best system out there, but because so many people oppose it without knowing what it is. I would love someone here to come up with one convincing argument as to what is wrong with it. Or even one unconvincing argument that actually acknowledges what socialism is all about.

So far the only arguments posted here opposing socialism are by people who haven't a clue what it is. What you are opposing is NOT socialism. I probably agree with some your arguments. So, we all oppose this other thing that isn't socialism; blooming wonderful, we have all of us lost the debate! And knowledge hasn't advanced at all.
 
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Maynard Keenan

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Ironically, conservatives have rehabilitated the term socialism. By calling anything and everything left of Ted Cruz "socialism," they've managed to dilute any negative connotations the word once had. If the center left policies of President Obama are now considered "socialism," then it's not surprising so many people have a positive view of "socialism." Ask people if they support an end to private enterprise, and government ownership of industry and you'd find a quite different result.
 
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greenguzzi

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If the Church stopped voting for socialist politicians, and instead started living like the church in Acts 4, then we would have REAL change. Change you can "believe" in.
It could be argued that Acts 4 is a good example of Social Anarchism (AKA Libertarian Socialism - my favourite kind of socialism). I'm all for that. If anyone did it it could be the beginning of a grass-roots Christian anarchic-socialist revolution!
 
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greenguzzi

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Ironically, conservatives have rehabilitated the term socialism. By calling anything and everything left of Ted Cruz "socialism," they've managed to dilute any negative connotations the word once had. If the center left policies of President Obama are now considered "socialism," then it's not surprising so many people have a positive view of "socialism." Ask people if they support an end to private enterprise, and government ownership of industry and you'd find a quite different result.
Yep, it's the same here is Australia. Our so-called socialist Labor Party are not just centre-right, they are far right. The poor conservative Liberal Party are being pushed so far to the right to get out of their way, that they are literally condoning the torture of babies. (It's ok, they are only refugee babies, most of them aren't even white.)
 
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Extraneous

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It's quite disturbing the number of people posting here who are impassioned opponents of socialism, yet clearly don't have the first clue about even the basics of socialism.
By all means show your opposition to socialism. However, putting up straw-men and then knocking them down doesn't advance the debate one iota.

I am pushing the idea of socialism, not because I think it's the best system out there, but because so many people oppose it without knowing what it is. I would love someone here to come up with one convincing argument as to what is wrong with it. Or even one unconvincing argument that actually acknowledges what socialism is all about.

So far the only arguments posted here opposing socialism are by people who haven't a clue what it is. What you are opposing is NOT socialism. I probably agree with some your arguments. So, we all oppose this other thing that isn't socialism; blooming wonderful, we have all of us lost the debate! And knowledge hasn't advanced at all.


So why do you support socialism? As a Christian, do you support helping people? You do realize that all politicians are dishonest, and when we claim that they are helping do Jesus work, then Jesus gets blamed when they screw it up. We dont need to appose socialism, but we dont need to support it either. Jesus is not a socialist, capitalist or communist. He is holy. Totally separate from worldly politics.
 
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Extraneous

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It could be argued that Acts 4 is a good example of Social Anarchism (AKA Libertarian Socialism - my favourite kind of socialism). I'm all for that. If anyone did it it could be the beginning of a grass-roots Christian anarchic-socialist revolution!

We cant marry politics with faith. Politicians lie and that is darkness. Christ is THE Way, Truth, and Life. Hes the Light of the world. Darkness and light have no fellowship. Paul tells us this when he teaches us not to be yoked with unbelievers. Politics is exactly the kind of thing Paul meant when he wrote that scripture. Political Church would be like spiritual adultery. The harlot of Babylon. Forgive me but its actually what i believe.
 
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greenguzzi

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So why do you support socialism? As a Christian, do you support helping people? You do realize that all politicians are dishonest, and when we claim that they are helping do Jesus work, then Jesus gets blamed when they screw it up. We dont need to appose socialism, but we dont need to support it either. Jesus is not a socialist, capitalist or communist. He is holy. Totally separate from worldly politics.
Good question!
As Christians surely we are to be Christian in all aspects of our lives. All aspects of our lives are sanctified. So when we vote, or when we participate in political debate, we should do so as Christians. So when I evaluate the various political parties or political ideas, I do so as a Christian. In doing so I find that capitalism is quite incompatible with my faith. I also find that some aspects of socialism are compatible with my faith. I also find that many of my brethren in Christ are somewhat confused or mislead about politics.
So I do what I can to restore some balance amongst my brothers and fellow citizens. Maybe my talking about socialism is a sort of polemic.
The alternative is to not participate in politics at all. Surely that would be wrong.
 
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Aureus

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Yes I have anecdotes

Glad we agree.

You have evidence for that? I have to think economic and technological progress would have ground to a standstill long ago if that were always a problem.

I said it is a common complaint. Not that the complaint is valid or worth anything. Its been a complaint for generations, and yet as you note economic and technological progress continues.

Standards have been dumbed down,
citation needed

What you say about the videos is true, and that's what I originally thought when this stuff started cropping up. But it's sort of like the Bill Cosby rape allegations - there comes a point where the sheer quantity has to be seen as a quality (of truth). As I said, the videos are a flood, like a cottage industry, they're on news shows, comedy shows, all over YouTube. The fact that you can find even one U.S. college student that thinks France is a planet should be very disturbing to us all.

Someone made a popular video, other people jump on the bandwagon using the same techniques to create the same style of video. You could produce an endless amount of such videos on endless topics. There's plenty of people to interview to find some dumb ones or ignorant ones who will give you the answers you want. The number of such videos is not any indication of widespread ignorance. And no, studies that show how bad people are at say, history, today is not evidence that people have gotten worse. You actually need studies from the past to compare it to.
 
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greenguzzi

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We cant marry politics with faith. Politicians lie and that is darkness. Christ is THE Way, Truth, and Life. Hes the Light of the world. Darkness and light have no fellowship. Paul tells us this when he teaches us not to be yoked with unbelievers. Politics is exactly the kind of thing Paul meant when he wrote that scripture. Political Church would be like spiritual adultery. The harlot of Babylon. Forgive me but its actually what i believe.
No, I'm not advocating a political church. That's why I used the word "anarchistic". Anarchism means not giving authority to anyone who doesn't deserve it. If I were a post-millennialist I would definitely be an anarchist (equals an Acts 4 church).
A revolution AWAY from politics.
(I really want to be a post-millennialist, unfortunately I can't find the scriptures to support the idea.)
 
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