Christus Victor - an unconvincing PoV?

simonpeter · Feb 8, 2016

Shalom,

I am familiar with penal substitution and EO view of the incarnation. But Christus Victor is unconvincing, perhaps even confusing. Doesn't this idea make Jesus look like a cunning lawyer sneaking one past Satan? Not attacking this view, but that's how many people may feel.

Hope the more knowledgeable ones can shed some light on this.

Regards,
Simon

bling · Feb 9, 2016

Christus Victor is not really an atonement theory, but tries to be more of a total explanation for what Christ did and really more about the death, burial and resurrection. The "Ransom Theory" of atonement seems to be incorporated into the Christus Victor explanation.

Cappadocious · Feb 9, 2016

We don't think Jesus snuck a ransom past Satan that exploited a loophole in the CS Lewis universe magic or whatever contemporary Christus Victor peeps think.

We think that christ paid a debt of righteousness by filling it up with his righteousness. God doesn't want punishment payment.

jimmyjimmy · Feb 9, 2016

Two problems with it (and many more): The cup of wrath, and Jesus crying out, "why have you forsaken me".

Cappadocious · Feb 9, 2016

Lol @ Calvinist wrath-bombing hypothesis

jimmyjimmy · Feb 9, 2016

Cappadocious said:
Lol @ Calvinist wrath-bombing hypothesis

Ignoring another fool who would rather not engage in serious conversation.

Cappadocious · Feb 9, 2016

prodromos · Feb 9, 2016

thatbrian said:
Two problems with it (and many more): The cup of wrath, and Jesus crying out, "why have you forsaken me".

Read the whole of the Psalm Christ was quoting. It ends in victory.

jimmyjimmy · Feb 9, 2016

prodromos said:
Read the whole of the Psalm Christ was quoting. It ends in victory.

Yes, it does; however that does not nesesarily support CV.

simonpeter · Feb 9, 2016

Shalom,

I don't want any fighting in my thread. :wave:

Someone can explain CV and why its better than satisfaction theory.

simonpeter · Feb 9, 2016

bling said:
Christus Victor is not really an atonement theory, but tries to be more of a total explanation for what Christ did and really more about the death, burial and resurrection. The "Ransom Theory" of atonement seems to be incorporated into the Christus Victor explanation.

Jesus took our place, according to CV. But the very act of taking our place overcame death and sin?

Cappadocious · Feb 10, 2016

simonpeter said:
Jesus took our place, according to CV. But the very act of taking our place overcame death and sin?

Do you think OT sacrifices were place-taking?

MarkRohfrietsch · Feb 10, 2016

His death on the cross covered our sin; dying in our place. His resurrection and ascension, prove His victory. The Revelation of St. John tells us that His return will be that of a victor, not a victim.

An Easter hymn from our Lutheran Tradition:

This hymn also expresses this concept, and the notes in the video give the Scripture references as well:

Christus Victor - an unconvincing PoV?

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