The lie of eternal security refuted once and for all.

Rick Otto said:

If you're discussing grace, you're discussing what God does. I told you what the bible says our part is.
Please dispense with the condescending remarks and stop playing games with semantic vagueness.
You aren't the least bit good at it.

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LOL, I didn't bring up Grace, someone else did. i'm trying to be neutral until people give a handful of answers. I apologize if I sound condescending, that wasn't my intension. BTW, your not the first person to say that, so i'll put that on me. Thanks for your input.

-57 said:

Eph 2:8 applies....For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

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So that would make 2 that say we are saved by Grace, (what God did) and Faith, (what we do). Is this correct 57? could y0u share your understanding on what Faith is?

faither said:

Ok rick, your misrepresenting my question. the discussion between us is kind of going in circles. I appreciate your replies though. I 've got you down as we do nothing to have Salvation. I do have a point to all this, and i'll get to it when we have a consciences on what we do or not do to be Saved. I've got 2 say we do nothing and one that says we are saved by Grace through Faith. I'm just waiting for his understanding on what Faith is.

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Ok.

faither said:

So that would make 2 that say we are saved by Grace, (what God did) and Faith, (what we do). Is this correct 57? could y0u share your understanding on what Faith is?

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The ability to have faith is given to us by God as a gift.

-57 said:

Eph 2:8 applies....For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

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I think the problem is that we do not understand what faith is.

iron2iron said:

I think the problem is that we do not understand what faith is.

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...or it has several nuisances.

faither said:

Ok rick, your misrepresenting my question. the discussion between us is kind of going in circles. I appreciate your replies though. I 've got you down as we do nothing to have Salvation. I do have a point to all this, and i'll get to it when we have a consciences on what we do or not do to be Saved. I've got 2 say we do nothing and one that says we are saved by Grace through Faith. I'm just waiting for his understanding on what Faith is.

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Does any one understand what faith is, because it is not trusting or believing (mental consent).

-57 said:

The ability to have faith is given to us by God as a gift.

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What I'm asking is what do we do to be saved , thus fulfilling the "once saved" part of the osas. I accept your understanding of Faith, but would you share what the accual application of your understanding of faith?

iron2iron said:

I think the problem is that we do not understand what faith is.

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You struck a nerve iron 2 iron. tell me why you said that the problem is we don't understand what Faith is?

iron2iron said:

Does any one understand what faith is, because it is not trusting or believing (mental consent).

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What is it Iron , don't keep me hanging.

faither said:

What I'm asking is what do we do to be saved , thus fulfilling the "once saved" part of the osas. I accept your understanding of Faith, but would you share what the accual application of your understanding of faith?

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What must we do? I would say in reality...nothing.

No one seeks God. It is God who calls us, draws (drags) us, gives us.
We don't accept Jesus...we receive Jesus.

-57 said:

...or it has several nuisances.

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People use this word (faith) to describe everything other that what it is. People say my faith is Buddhist, or Muslim, or Christian. And the evangelical church does the same thing, like my faith is Baptist, or Catholic. This one word has lost it's original meaning.

-57 said:

What must we do? I would say in reality...nothing.

No one seeks God. It is God who calls us, draws (drags) us, gives us.
We don't accept Jesus...we receive Jesus.

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I'm not sure if doing nothing would be your understanding of what Faith is. But you are the 3rd reply for we are saved by us doing nothing. (its all God, we do nothing) thanks 57

faither said:

What is it Iron , don't keep me hanging.

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Ok, I am now.

iron2iron said:

People use this word (faith) to describe everything other that what it is. People say my faith is Buddhist, or Muslim, or Christian. And the evangelical church does the same thing, like my faith is Baptist, or Catholic. This one word has lost it's original meaning.

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Yeeesss, I like it so far! Tell me what the original meaning is!

iron2iron said:

Does any one understand what faith is, because it is not trusting or believing (mental consent).

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"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval." Hebrews 11:1-2

If you are not sure of the things hoped for - you do not have biblical faith and are not approved of by God.

Those who doubt and do not believe that they have already been saved and will not come into condemnation again do not have biblical faith and are not approved of by God.

Those who teach against OSAS here in the forum do not have faith that we have been so saved already and are seated with Christ even now in glory and ruling with Him in His kingdom by faith. They lack faith in what Christ has accomplished already in all those who have exercised saving faith and believed the gospel.

They are not approved of by God.

If one has assurance (faith) that God has so accomplished these things on their behalf - some kind of works and fruit will of necessity follow because of the Holy Spirit working in them.

Because the faith of people vary somewhat - along with the depths of their particular habits from before being saved - it is often hard to say for sure that a professing Christian has works and fruit following.

For that reason we should not dogmatically proclaim that a person is not saved simply because we don't see as much fruit as we see in some other person.

What we proclaim to be a weed for sure may well be a stalk of wheat that has not fully matured.

Having said that - there is such a thing as false or merely professed faith. Not all who claim to believe actually have saving faith.

We should reprove, rebuke, and correct fellow those who claim to be believers that is commanded by God.

But in the end - it will be God who sorts us all out.

iron2iron said:

Ok, I am now.

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The word faith in the Greek is the word pistis, and it simply means to persuade. The Greek word for belief is the word pisteuo, and it means to be persuaded. The word pisteuo was derived from the word pistis and that is why there is so much confusion about the word faith and belief. Faith (pistis) is a noun and believe ( pisteuo) is a verb, faith is what God gives us and believe is what we do. That's why I said mental consent instead of belief.

faither said:

Yeeesss, I like it so far! Tell me what the original meaning is!

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lets not forget these answers and understandings are to be applied to the "once saved" part of the osas equation as per this thread.

iron2iron said:

The word faith in the Greek is the word pistis, and it simply means to persuade. The Greek word for belief is the word pisteuo, and it means to be persuaded. The word pisteuo was derived from the word pistis and that is why there is so much confusion about the word faith and belief. Faith (pistis) is a noun and believe ( pisteuo) is a verb, faith is what God gives us and believe is what we do. That's why I said mental consent instead of belief.

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Ok, is it ok to pm you today?

iron2iron said:

The word faith in the Greek is the word pistis, and it simply means to persuade. The Greek word for belief is the word pisteuo, and it means to be persuaded. The word pisteuo was derived from the word pistis and that is why there is so much confusion about the word faith and belief. Faith (pistis) is a noun and believe ( pisteuo) is a verb, faith is what God gives us and believe is what we do. That's why I said mental consent instead of belief.

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What you do is what you believe. The word believe came from an old English word bylive, and it means the way you live by.

faither said:

Ok, is it ok to pm you today?

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any time, this is my first time on here so im not sure how to do that myself