Post-Trib Only Nuclear Apocalypse ?!

stephen583 · Feb 4, 2016

Armoured said:
And is there anything to suggest your estimation is accurate?

Anytime the ground, air or naval forces of the United States (or their allies) are challenged, moved against or attacked anywhere in the world, the status of SAC automatically goes from DEFCON 3 to DEFCON 2. Anytime any nation deploys nuclear forces in a threatening manner outside normal military parameters, (such as publicized exercises) DEFCON 2 is initiated. Anytime any incident occurs which has the potential of escalating into a confrontation between the U.S. and any nation possessing ballistic missile capability, DEFCON 3 (SAC bombers on 15 minute takeoff alert) is initiated.

Although I toured the Cheyenne Mountain (NORAD) facility and was briefed while I was in the military, and my uncle Bill was a crew chief on a B52 bombers at Barksdale AFB, this information is hardly TOP SECRET. You can type DEFCON into a Wikipedia search on the internet, hit the enter key, and read all about it and the parameters for DEFCON 2 yourself.

In July 2015 on two occasions, U.S. surveillance planes over the international waters of the Black Sea and the Sea of China were interdicted by Soviet and Chinese combat aircraft and ordered to leave or be fired upon. (MSNBC News).

Later in July 2015, Vladimir Putin ordered tens of thousands of Russian ground forces to the Ukrainian border, and when NATO fielded a Fast Reaction Force of 30 thousand ground troops, heavy tanks and twenty advanced F-22 (nuclear capable fighter/bombers) in response, Putin publicly threatened to use nuclear weapons should NATO intervene in the Ukraine. (CNN News).

On October 1 2015, Washington accused Russia of targeting anti-Assad forces in Syria while ignoring ISIS. Twelve days later, Washington accused Russia of deliberately targeting U.S. military advisors on the ground in Syria assisting the anti-Assad forces. (MSNBC, New York Post).

Before the September 2015 summit in Washington D.C, Vladimir Putin ordered a Russian Typhoon ballistic submarine and the heavy guided missile cruiser Moskava (also nuclear capable), to the coast of Syria. (CNN News).

On November 19, 2015 the Chinese Aircraft carrier Lianoning CV 16 docks at the Mediterranean port of Tarsus in preparation for adding its Ju-15 (Flying Shark) fighters to the conflict. The Carrier's defensive capability includes the KJ-88, YJ-83K and YJ-91 surface to ship missile systems. (The Associated Press).

On November 24, 2015 a Russian Sukhoi SU-24 M (nuclear capable) bomber flew one and half miles into Turkish airspace and was shot down. (Associated Press).

On January 12, 2015 Iran captured two U.S. navy gunboats and their crews operating in the Persian Gulf. (CNN News).

In 2009 and again on January 6, 2016, North Korea conducts unannounced nuclear weapons tests. (The New York Times and Associated Press).

Where I live, two plus two still equals four. The New Cold War era is heating up fast. If you don't think America's nuclear forces have gone to DEFCON 2 at least four times in the last six months, you're living in a fantasy land.

stephen583 · Feb 4, 2016

Armoured said:
Gotta love armchair generals. It's also nice to see all the conspiracy theorising over JH15 aren't going to waste after the Army inconveniently failed to round up all the Christians into underground FEMA camps at those Walmarts, or whatever the last iteration was.

If you read this thread and everything I said from the beginning, you'll notice I debunked the "Walmart/Fema" camp myth from the start. I said, "THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO PLAN TO EVACUATE CIVILIANS FROM CITIES, OR RELOCATE CIVILIANS TO HARDENED UNDERGROUND FACILITIES". "THE PLAN IS TO HAVE CIVILIANS SHELTER IN PLACE IN THEIR HOMES" (end quote).

If you had actually checked the Jade Helm 15 conspiracy theory websites, you'd have noticed none of them, (not one) attributes the Jade Helm 15 exercise to a "Drill to disperse U.S. military forces in the event of Nuclear War". They all (invariably) attribute Jade Helm 15 to a conspiracy by the govt. to pull off a military junta, (with or without complicity on the part of the U.N, depending which one you read), against the American people. So please don't insinuate "I've lifted this idea from some conspiracy website" or "posted something some armchair general has publicized. I'm happy to own my own ideas. Thank you.

Does that mean there won't be any internment camps during the Nuclear Apocalypse ?! Once again. If you go back and read what I've posted, you'll see I say exactly the opposite. Yes ! Militant Christians motivated by violent "Dominionist" ideology will be arrested, rounded up and interned during the Apocalypse, as seditious and dangerous threats to our national security. Probably more than a few Russians and Muslims too. Just as Japanese Americans were rounded up and interned in camps till the end of the Second World War. These camps will not however be located "underground at Walmart Stores, nor will they be run by FEMA". They will be hastily constructed, barb wire enclosed, above ground, barracks facilities, operated by the army, (just like those constructed in WWII for the Japanese). The whole Walmart thing is a myth.

As for why the Army didn't round up everyone during Jade Helm 15 ?! You obviously can't distinguish the difference between an "exercise"(drill) and the real thing.

stephen583 · Feb 4, 2016

Here's one of my conspiracy theories for you to chew on. Why do you suppose it is the USA can invade Panama and capture Manuel Noriega, invade Grenada and swoop its' coup leaders from power, kill Muammar Gaddafi, capture and imprison Serbian strongman Slobodan Milosevic, invade Iraq and kill Saddam Hussein, and kill Osama Bin Ladin in Pakistan, but for some inexplicable reason (even after the fall of the Soviet Union), the USA hasn't been able to do anything for the last five decades about the regime of Fidel and Raul Castro sitting just 90 miles south of Florida ?! Why ?! We even have a military base at Guantanamo, Cuba.

But now, after five decades of intransigent and mutual hatred between these two nations, United States is suddenly moving to "normalize" relations with Cuba. Why ?! Is it because of the irresistible and radiant persuasion by the charismatic religious leader Pope Francis ?! I doubt it. That sounds more like "political cover" to me, rather than a rational explanation.

The answer to both these questions is simple. It has to do with the "fissible" nuclear material the Soviets left in Cuba when they pulled their ICBM's out during the "Cuban Missile Crisis" in October 1962. You got it ! Nuclear weapons have been sitting 90 miles from U.S. shores for the last 50 years. It's one of the best kept secrets in U.S. history.

With Nuclear War FAST approaching in Europe and the Middle East, the USA is now working feverishly to "mend its' fences" with the Castro regime and Cuba, before the "Balloon goes up" and the Nuclear Apocalypse happens. It's that simple.

"YE CAN DISCERN THE FACE OF THE SKY, BUT CAN YE NOT DISCERN THE SIGNS OF THE TIMES" ?
(MATTHEW 16:3).

Psalm3704 · Feb 5, 2016

Fusion77 said:
The bible clearly states Ezra 4:24 Ezra 5:1-2 is speaking of the same time and same event as Haggai 1:14-15. Then the building on that second temple is completed about 3.5 years later. Ezra 6:14-15. The bible clearly states this. I will not disregard the bible. The bible debunks your false view, not me!

Worst case of cherry-picking scriptures I've ever seen. Do you always assume cats and dogs are the same animals because they both have certain parallels? Because both have 2 ears, 2 eyes, 1 nose and 1 mouth, this makes dogs and cats the same animal to you?

You've continued to push this issue over and over again dogmatically claiming the books of Haggai and Ezra as being the same because they both mentioned just "one single" parallel: "the second year of Darius" without taking into consideration tons of conflicting views.

All you're doing is just following one parallel while ignoring 15 plus conflicting views mentioned in the bible. You're totaling disregarding the bible trying to get it to conform to your own view.

Do you understand at all what I wrote in post #97 about what God stated in Haggai 2:3? When the foundation was being worked on, God praised the appearance of this new temple being better than those in the past. The second temple described by Ezra was pitiful made from poverty. The first temple was made with King Solomon's riches and wealth built on marvel and gold. There's no way Haggai was writing about the same temple Ezra wrote. The temple written by Ezra was inferior to the first temple.

You're also ignoring all the other conflicting views I've mentioned in post #89.

Different Events in the building of each Temple:

a) Books of 2 Chronicles to Ezra to Nehemiah (documentation on the historic rebuilding of the 2nd Temple).
b) Books of Haggai to Zechariah (prophecy on the rebuilding of the 3rd temple).

a) God called King Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:21-23) to issue a decree for the return of the Jewish back to the holy land and to start construction of Jerusalem and the temple.
b) God calls Haggai to tell the people in Jerusalem and explain to them why their land isn't blessed (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-11), and to start rebuilding the temple. (Haggai 1:7-8, Haggai).

a) King Cyrus issued a decree for the Jews to return and begin rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple. (Ezra 1:1-4).
b) Haggai issues God message to the people. (Haggai 1:12-13).

a) Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed and became an empty city for 70 years when the captives returned. (2 Chronicles 36:19-21).
b) Jerusalem is occupied with people living in nice homes, producing crops and working. People are already there. (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-10).

a) Tribes of Judah and Benjamin returns to the holy land to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple (Ezra 1:5). The other 10 tribes does not return.
b) Jerusalem is already occupied before the construction of the temple. (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-10)

a) Construction of the temple began immediately after the return of the captives from Babylon after 70 years. (Ezra 3:6-8, 2 Chronicles 36:21).
b) Construction of the temple delay for 70 years after the Jews return to Israel. (Zechariah 1:12, Zechariah 7:5, Daniel 9:2).

a) Foundation of the 2nd temple completed. (Ezra 3:10).
b) Foundation of the 3rd temple completed. (Haggai 2:18).

a) God did not promise great blessings and prosperity for the construction of the 2nd temple when the foundation was completed. (Nothing found in 2 Chronicles, Ezra or Nehemiah).
b) God promised great blessings and prosperity for the construction of the 3rd temple when the foundation is completed. (Haggai 2:18-19).

a) Construction of the 2nd temple ran into problems and adversity. (Ezra 4-5) The prophet Daniel also revealed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem will be rebuilt during troublesome times. (Daniel 9:25).
b) Construction of the 3rd temple will be built with no problems and with aid from people all over the world. (Zechariah 6:15)

a) Construction of Jerusalem also ran into problems and adversity and a wall constructed to protect the city. (Nehemiah 2:19-6:14). The prophet Daniel also revealed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem will be rebuilt during troublesome times. (Daniel 9:25). Jerusalem is a city with walls!
b) Jerusalem not in ruins. Jerusalem expands with prosperity without a wall surrounding the city. (Zechariah 2:4-5). Read this again! Jerusalem is a city without walls! (Zechariah 2:4-5). It's also mentioned in Ezekiel's prophecy of future Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 38:11).

a) God does not return to Jerusalem. Nothing found in Ezra to Nehemiah.
b) God returns to Jerusalem and blesses everything. (Zechariah 1:16-17, Zechariah 8:1-23). Church is gone and God focuses His attention once again to Israel. Daniel's 70th week begins.

a) Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned to Jerusalem during the time of the 2nd temple. (Ezra 1:5).
b) The House of Judah is seen together with the House of Israel. All the tribes of Jacob is back in the holy land. (Zechariah 8:13, Zechariah 10).

a) God never mentioned the shaking of heaven and earth in Ezra to Nehemiah.
b) God promised to shake heaven and earth. (Haggai 2:6, Haggai 2:21-22)

a) The two witnesses are not seen anywhere in Ezra and Nehemiah after the foundation was completed.
b) The two witnesses are revealed in Zechariah 4:12-14.

a) No mentioning of the Lord's return anywhere in Ezra and Nehemiah.
b) Christ returns in Zechariah 14:4-5.

Did you just recently started studying bible prophecy? I already told you in post #66, how many more times do I need to tell you? It's a common practise for prophets to use the ancient names of cities, countries and people associated within their own time when prophesying about the future.

You need to watch this video from Joel who's one of the best scholars on Middle East prophecy. He can explain it better than me.

Fusion77 said:
ITS ONLY DARIUS NAME IN THE BOOK OF HAGGAI. I've NEVER said anything about Nebuchadnezzar or Zerubbabel in this respect. Only Darius, and only in the book of Haggai.

And where do you come up with such nonsense that it only involves Darius' name and only in the book of Haggai, and not names of other past biblical characters or books? Such gobbledygook eschatology!

Fusion77 said:
It appears you continue to use a smoke screen concerning what I say. So I'll restate again... IN THE BOOK OF HAGGAI ONLY, when DARIUS name is mentioned when a day or date is given it signifies it is a message for the past. If DARIUS name is not mentioned when a day or date is given it is a message for the future. ONLY IN THE BOOK OF HAGGAI! This can usually only be realized in word for word translations.

The only smokescreen is what's in front of you as you can't seem to see or understand the things you read in the bible.

Case and point. Darius' name is mentioned twice in Haggai 1, you already claim the entire first chapter is past because of his name being there.

In chapter 2, Darius is mention once in Haggai 2:10. It said on the 24th day of the 9th month in the 2nd year.

Read the rest of chapter. the 24th day of the 9th month appears in Haggai 2:18 when the foundation was completed and Haggai 2:20 when God announced the shaking of heaven and earth. All this information from Haggai 2:10-23 happens on the same day: 24th day on the 9th month. It doesn't matter if Darius' name also appears in the middle and the end of Haggai 2 as it all happens on the same day. THE SAME DAY!!!!!!!

By your logic and reasoning involving the use of the name Darius, pretty much the entire book of Haggai is all past, having no bearing on the future! Complete Gobbledygook Eschatology!

Haggai 2:10-23 GNT
10 On the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month of the second year that Darius was emperor, the Lord Almighty spoke again to the prophet Haggai. 11 He said, “Ask the priests for a ruling on this question: 12 Suppose someone takes a piece of consecrated meat from a sacrifice and carries it in a fold of his robe. If he then lets his robe touch any bread, cooked food, wine, olive oil, or any kind of food at all, will it make that food consecrated also?”

When the question was asked, the priests answered, “No.”

13 Then Haggai asked, “Suppose someone is defiled because he has touched a dead body. If he then touches any of these foods, will that make them defiled too?”

The priests answered, “Yes.”

14 Then Haggai said, “The Lord says that the same thing applies to the people of this nation and to everything they produce; and so everything they offer on the altar is defiled.”

15 The Lord says, “Can't you see what has happened to you? Before you started to rebuild the Temple, 16 you would go to a pile of grain expecting to find twenty bushels, but there would be only ten. You would go to draw fifty gallons of wine from a vat, but find only twenty. 17 I sent scorching winds and hail to ruin everything you tried to grow, but still you did not repent. 18 Today is the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, the day that the foundation of the Temple has been completed. See what is going to happen from now on.19 Although there is no grain left, and the grapevines, fig trees, pomegranates, and olive trees have not yet produced, yet from now on I will bless you.”

20 On that same day, the twenty-fourth of the month, the Lord gave Haggai a second message 21 for Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah: “I am about to shake heaven and earth 22 and overthrow kingdoms and end their power. I will overturn chariots and their drivers; the horses will die, and their riders will kill one another. 23 On that day I will take you, Zerubbabel my servant, and I will appoint you to rule in my name. You are the one I have chosen.” The LordAlmighty has spoken.

Seriously, did you just recently started studying bible prophecy, found the message in Haggai 2:20, got excited over your discovery and decided to share this find with the world? In case you don't know, some of us already knew the prophecy in Haggai before you joined this forum 2 months ago and already held discussions on the book of Haggai. Anyways, you're so lost on this prophecy you're constantly spelling it LSTO and don't even realized it.

.

Psalm3704 · Feb 5, 2016

Fusion77 said:
Haggai 2:1-9 FUTURE. Haggai 2:9 the LORD will give PEACE. This is the MILLENIAL TEMPLE. We won't know true peace until the Lord returns. If the Lord says he will give peace, he means true eternal peace. Haggai 2:9 millenial temple! Haggai 2:1 Darius's name not there...FUTURE MESSAGE!

You're confusing the third temple with the Millenial temple. Do you know why there will be no walls around Jerusalem? Because the LORD HIMSELF WILL BE A WALL OF FIRE. Zechariah 2:4-5 Millenial ERA! Or are you saying the Lord will sit in the midst of Jerusalem when the third temple is standing? Wrong again? MILLENIAL ERA!!!!!

Zechariah 3:8 Joshua is a type of the Branch (Messiah) it says right here! Same encounter with the same angel. Zechariah 6:11-12 crowning the high priest as King. HE shall build the temple of the Lord! That's symbolic of Christ! He will build the Temple of the Lord Zechariah 6:13 the he sits on the throne of David eternally as high priest. He will rule with PEACE ETERNALLY! Do have the gall to suggest Christ is coming to build the third temple? Zechariah 6:14-15 is NOT speaking of the third temple. Joshua the high priest is a symbol of the Branch IN ZECHARIAH 3 and 6 for starters. Read Zechariah 3:8 he is a symbol of the Branch. Isaiah 11:1 Jeremiah 33:15-16 THE PEOPLE will dwell in SAFETY! MILLENIAL! Zechariah 3:9 this is the stone in Zion Isaiah 28:16 the SPIRIT of the Lord will be upon HIM. Isaiah 11:2 The 7 eyes upon the Stone are the 7 Spirits Revelation 5:6

Haggai 2:20-21 is a message to ZERUBBABEL! You have no concept of who Zerubbabel is!

If you want to continue to lean on your own misunderstanding, that's your choice.

If you think Zechariah 2:1-5 is talking about the third temple...and you're expecting Jesus to be a a wall of fire while the third temple is standing. Furthermore, that He will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem during that time the third temple is up...I rest my case! YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!

Zechariah 14:16-17 And Zechariah 14:8-9 speak of the same time as Zechariah 2:4-5. This is NOT during the third temple is era! The Lord will be king over all the earth and reign from Jerusalem. He will be a wall of fire around the city and dwell in the midst! This is speaking of the MILLENIAL ERA!!!

Like everything else so far, you're the one who's in error here. Zechariah does not prophecise on the millennium or the millennium temple. His entire prophecy is on the tribulation from the beginning to the end until Zechariah 14:16-21. Zechariah's book is a continuation from Haggai. Haggai's prophesied the beginning construction of the 3rd temple in the final days just before the start of the tribulation. The 3rd temple gets completed in the first year of the year of the tribulation. I already told you Haggai and Zechariah go together like Ezra with Nehemiah.

The millennium temple is mentioned is in Ezekiel 40-47.

Of the many comments I've seen people made, you're the only one that think Zechariah's prophecy is about the millennium. In fact, you're also the only person I know that thinks Zerubbabel is one of the two witnesses. /facepalm! Some of the prophecies he wrote are so obvious of Israel in the tribulation, not the millennium!

Zechariah 1:16-17 NKJV
16 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord:

“I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy;
My house shall be built in it,” says the Lord of hosts,
“And a surveyor’s line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem.”’

17 “Again proclaim, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts:

“My cities shall again spread out through prosperity;
The Lord will again comfort Zion,
And will again choose Jerusalem.”’”

Zechariah 1:16-17 is not a prophecy about Christ return in the millennium. It's about God turning His attention back to the Israelites to start Daniel's 70th week. The church is gone. God now focuses on restoring the Jews in the beginning of the tribulation after the beginning construction of the 3rd temple mentioned in Haggai. Christ's return is at Zechariah 14, near the end of the book.

Zechariah 2:4-5 NKJV
4 who said to him, “Run, speak to this young man, saying: ‘Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls, because of the multitude of men and livestock in it. 5 For I,’ says the Lord, ‘will be a wall of fire all around her, and I will be the glory in her midst.’”

Zechariah 2:4-5 is not about the millennium either. In the millennium, there will be peace all over the world, you don't need God's protection surrounding the city in the millennium. God is protecting Jerusalem during the first half of the tribulation while the rest of the world is under tribulation and war.

Zechariah 2:6-9 NKJV
6 “Up, up! Flee from the land of the north,” says the Lord; “for I have spread you abroad like the four winds of heaven,” says the Lord. 7 “Up, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.”

8 For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. 9 For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

Zechariah 2:6-9 is also not the millennium as there's no war in the millennium until Revelation 20:7-10. Zechariah 2:6-9 is the middle of the tribulation when a coalition of Muslim nations will be gathered to invade Jerusalem and some will flee the city to escape.

Zechariah 4:11-14 NKJV
11 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?”12 And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”

13 Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”

And I said, “No, my lord.”

14 So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”

Zechariah 4:11-14 is not the millennium either because this reveals the two witness located in the temple: Zechariah 4:1-5. The two witnesses appears during the tribulation, not in the millennium. And get it through your head, Zerubbabel is not one of the two witnesses.

Zechariah 7:12-14 ERV
12 They were very stubborn
and would not obey the law.
The Lord All-Powerful used his Spirit
and sent messages to his people through the prophets.
But the people would not listen,
so the Lord All-Powerful became very angry.
13 So the Lord All-Powerful said,
“I called to them,
and they did not answer.
So now, if they call to me,
I will not answer.
14 I will bring the other nations against them like a storm.
They didn’t know those nations,
but the country will be destroyed
after those nations pass through.
This pleasant country will be destroyed.”

Zechariah 7:12-14 is also not in the millennium. Since when did God decided to gather nations against Jerusalem during the millennium? And destroy all of Israel? This only happens during the 2nd half of the tribulation.

Zechariah 8:7-8 NKJV
7 “Thus says the Lord of hosts:

‘Behold, I will save My people from the land of the east
And from the land of the west;
8 I will bring them back,
And they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem.
They shall be My people
And I will be their God,
In truth and righteousness.’

Zechariah 8:13 NKJV
And it shall come to pass
That just as you were a curse among the nations,
O house of Judah and house of Israel,
So I will save you, and you shall be a blessing.
Do not fear,
Let your hands be strong.’

Zechariah 8:7-8 and 8:13 is also not in the millennium. There is no gathering of the remaining house of Jacob as they've being gather together during the first half of the tribulation. You can't have Daniel's 70th week without the entire house of Jacob together back in the holy land to fulfill the Time of Jacob's Trouble.

Zechariah 9:2-4 NKJV
2 Also against Hamath, which borders on it,
And against Tyre and Sidon, though they are very wise.

3 For Tyre built herself a tower,
Heaped up silver like the dust,
And gold like the mire of the streets.
4 Behold, the Lord will cast her out;
He will destroy her power in the sea,
And she will be devoured by fire.

Explain to me how this can happen in the millennium, Fusion77. Lebanon is no longer exist as a country in the millennium as the land of Israel expands into modern day Lebanon. Why is Lebanon mentioned here if Zechariah is prophecy of the millennium?

Zechariah 9:5-7
5 Ashkelon shall see it and fear;
Gaza also shall be very sorrowful;
And Ekron, for He dried up her expectation.
The king shall perish from Gaza,
And Ashkelon shall not be inhabited.

6 “A mixed race shall settle in Ashdod,
And I will cut off the pride of the Philistines.
7 I will take away the blood from his mouth,
And the abominations from between his teeth.
But he who remains, even he shall be for our God,
And shall be like a leader in Judah,
And Ekron like a Jebusite.

Same thing here too Fusion77. Explain why the area of the Gaza is still in existence in the millennium. Israel will expand it's borders into the Gaza too. There won't be a Gaza left by the end of the tribulation.

Zechariah 9:9-10 NKJV
9 “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.
10 I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim
And the horse from Jerusalem;
The battle bow shall be cut off.
He shall speak peace to the nations;
His dominion shall be ‘from sea to sea,
And from the River to the ends of the earth.

Zechariah 9:9-10 is also not the millennium. Jesus doesn't return to earth during the millennium, He comes in the second half of the tribulation. You can't start the millennium without Jesus coming first.

Zechariah 9:14-16 NKJV
14 Then the Lord will be seen over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning.
The Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And go with whirlwinds from the south.
15 The Lord of hosts will defend them;
They shall devour and subdue with slingstones.
They shall drink and roar as if with wine;
They shall be filled with blood like basins,
Like the corners of the altar.
16 The Lord their God will save them in that day,
As the flock of His people.
For they shall be like the jewels of a crown,
Lifted like a banner over His land—

Zechariah 9:14-16 is also not the millennium. Jesus doesn't come and fight the enemies of God during the millennium, He comes to fight them during the tribulation. He reigns during the millennium. There's a difference.

Zechariah 12:1-3 NKJV
The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 2 “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. 3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.

Zechariah 12:1-3 does not happen in the millennium either. No country will ever invade Jerusalem or Israel ever again after the tribulation.

Zechariah 12:7-9 NKJV
7 “The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12:7-9 does not happen in the millennium either. Jesus saves them during the tribulation, not in the millennium.

Zechariah 14:1-5 NKJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

Since when did the Day of the Lord happen during the millennium? Zechariah 14:1-5 is Christ's return on earth and it happens during the tribulation.

Zechariah 14:12-14 NKJV
12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:

Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

13 It shall come to pass in that day
That a great panic from the Lord will be among them.
Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand;
14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
Shall be gathered together:
Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

A nuclear bomb does not drop on Jerusalem during the millennium either. Zechariah 14:12 happens during the tribulation.

*********************************************

The only place Zechariah spoke of the millennium is at the end of his book in Zechariah 14:16-21.

Zechariah 14:16-21 NKJV
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

Seriously, did you just recently started studying bible prophecy, found the message in Haggai 2:20, got excited over your discovery and decided to share this find with the world? In case you don't know, some of us already knew the prophecy in Haggai before you joined this forum 2 months ago and already held discussions on the book of Haggai.

You've shown no knowledge on the books of Haggai and Ezra. Now you show the same ignorance on the book of Zechariah too. You're the only person I've ever heard claim Zechariah as prophetic book about the millennium. Do you honestly think the millennium is this doom and gloom?

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Psalm3704 · Feb 5, 2016

Fusion77 said:
Maybe it's your pre trib theology that limits you to understanding basic eschatological principles?

Pre Trib theology has nothing to do with understanding the 1st temple, 2nd temple, 3rd temple or the Millennium Temple. You're just showing more ignorance here.

And your mid trib speculation has no scriptural evidence on the timing of the rapture.

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Fusion77 · Feb 5, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
Pre Trib theology has nothing to do with understanding the 1st temple, 2nd temple, 3rd temple or the Millennium Temple. You're just showing more ignorance here.

And your mid trib speculation has no scriptural evidence on the timing of the rapture.

.

Mid trib? The rapture is post tribulation.

Fusion77 · Feb 5, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
Like everything else so far, you're the one who's in error here. Zechariah does not prophecise on the millennium or the millennium temple. His entire prophecy is on the tribulation from the beginning to the end until Zechariah 14:16-21. Zechariah's book is a continuation from Haggai. Haggai's prophesied the beginning construction of the 3rd temple in the final days just before the start of the tribulation. The 3rd temple gets completed in the first year of the year of the tribulation. I already told you Haggai and Zechariah go together like Ezra with Nehemiah.

The millennium temple is mentioned is in Ezekiel 40-47.

Of the many comments I've seen people made, you're the only one that think Zechariah's prophecy is about the millennium. In fact, you're also the only person I know that thinks Zerubbabel is one of the two witnesses. /facepalm! Some of the prophecies he wrote are so obvious of Israel in the tribulation, not the millennium!

Zechariah 1:16-17 NKJV
16 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord:

“I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy;
My house shall be built in it,” says the Lord of hosts,
“And a surveyor’s line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem.”’

17 “Again proclaim, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts:

“My cities shall again spread out through prosperity;
The Lord will again comfort Zion,
And will again choose Jerusalem.”’”

Zechariah 1:16-17 is not a prophecy about Christ return in the millennium. It's about God turning His attention back to the Israelites to start Daniel's 70th week. The church is gone. God now focuses on restoring the Jews in the beginning of the tribulation after the beginning construction of the 3rd temple mentioned in Haggai. Christ's return is at Zechariah 14, near the end of the book.

Zechariah 2:4-5 NKJV
4 who said to him, “Run, speak to this young man, saying: ‘Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls, because of the multitude of men and livestock in it. 5 For I,’ says the Lord, ‘will be a wall of fire all around her, and I will be the glory in her midst.’”

Zechariah 2:4-5 is not about the millennium either. In the millennium, there will be peace all over the world, you don't need God's protection surrounding the city in the millennium. God is protecting Jerusalem during the first half of the tribulation while the rest of the world is under tribulation and war.

Zechariah 2:6-9 NKJV
6 “Up, up! Flee from the land of the north,” says the Lord; “for I have spread you abroad like the four winds of heaven,” says the Lord. 7 “Up, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.”

8 For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. 9 For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

Zechariah 2:6-9 is also not the millennium as there's no war in the millennium until Revelation 20:7-10. Zechariah 2:6-9 is the middle of the tribulation when a coalition of Muslim nations will be gathered to invade Jerusalem and some will flee the city to escape.

Zechariah 4:11-14 NKJV
11 Then I answered and said to him, “What are these two olive trees—at the right of the lampstand and at its left?”12 And I further answered and said to him, “What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?”

13 Then he answered me and said, “Do you not know what these are?”

And I said, “No, my lord.”

14 So he said, “These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth.”

Zechariah 4:11-14 is not the millennium either because this reveals the two witness located in the temple: Zechariah 4:1-5. The two witnesses appears during the tribulation, not in the millennium. And get it through your head, Zerubbabel is not one of the two witnesses.

Zechariah 7:12-14 ERV
12 They were very stubborn
and would not obey the law.
The Lord All-Powerful used his Spirit
and sent messages to his people through the prophets.
But the people would not listen,
so the Lord All-Powerful became very angry.
13 So the Lord All-Powerful said,
“I called to them,
and they did not answer.
So now, if they call to me,
I will not answer.
14 I will bring the other nations against them like a storm.
They didn’t know those nations,
but the country will be destroyed
after those nations pass through.
This pleasant country will be destroyed.”

Zechariah 7:12-14 is also not in the millennium. Since when did God decided to gather nations against Jerusalem during the millennium? And destroy all of Israel? This only happens during the 2nd half of the tribulation.

Zechariah 8:7-8 NKJV
7 “Thus says the Lord of hosts:

‘Behold, I will save My people from the land of the east
And from the land of the west;
8 I will bring them back,
And they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem.
They shall be My people
And I will be their God,
In truth and righteousness.’

Zechariah 8:13 NKJV
And it shall come to pass
That just as you were a curse among the nations,
O house of Judah and house of Israel,
So I will save you, and you shall be a blessing.
Do not fear,
Let your hands be strong.’

Zechariah 8:7-8 and 8:13 is also not in the millennium. There is no gathering of the remaining house of Jacob as they've being gather together during the first half of the tribulation. You can't have Daniel's 70th week without the entire house of Jacob together back in the holy land to fulfill the Time of Jacob's Trouble.

Zechariah 9:2-4 NKJV
2 Also against Hamath, which borders on it,
And against Tyre and Sidon, though they are very wise.

3 For Tyre built herself a tower,
Heaped up silver like the dust,
And gold like the mire of the streets.
4 Behold, the Lord will cast her out;
He will destroy her power in the sea,
And she will be devoured by fire.

Explain to me how this can happen in the millennium, Fusion77. Lebanon is no longer exist as a country in the millennium as the land of Israel expands into modern day Lebanon. Why is Lebanon mentioned here if Zechariah is prophecy of the millennium?

Zechariah 9:5-7
5 Ashkelon shall see it and fear;
Gaza also shall be very sorrowful;
And Ekron, for He dried up her expectation.
The king shall perish from Gaza,
And Ashkelon shall not be inhabited.

6 “A mixed race shall settle in Ashdod,
And I will cut off the pride of the Philistines.
7 I will take away the blood from his mouth,
And the abominations from between his teeth.
But he who remains, even he shall be for our God,
And shall be like a leader in Judah,
And Ekron like a Jebusite.

Same thing here too Fusion77. Explain why the area of the Gaza is still in existence in the millennium. Israel will expand it's borders into the Gaza too. There won't be a Gaza left by the end of the tribulation.

Zechariah 9:9-10 NKJV
9 “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.
10 I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim
And the horse from Jerusalem;
The battle bow shall be cut off.
He shall speak peace to the nations;
His dominion shall be ‘from sea to sea,
And from the River to the ends of the earth.

Zechariah 9:9-10 is also not the millennium. Jesus doesn't return to earth during the millennium, He comes in the second half of the tribulation. You can't start the millennium without Jesus coming first.

Zechariah 9:14-16 NKJV
14 Then the Lord will be seen over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning.
The Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And go with whirlwinds from the south.
15 The Lord of hosts will defend them;
They shall devour and subdue with slingstones.
They shall drink and roar as if with wine;
They shall be filled with blood like basins,
Like the corners of the altar.
16 The Lord their God will save them in that day,
As the flock of His people.
For they shall be like the jewels of a crown,
Lifted like a banner over His land—

Zechariah 9:14-16 is also not the millennium. Jesus doesn't come and fight the enemies of God during the millennium, He comes to fight them during the tribulation. He reigns during the millennium. There's a difference.

Zechariah 12:1-3 NKJV
The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 2 “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem. 3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.

Zechariah 12:1-3 does not happen in the millennium either. No country will ever invade Jerusalem or Israel ever again after the tribulation.

Zechariah 12:7-9 NKJV
7 “The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12:7-9 does not happen in the millennium either. Jesus saves them during the tribulation, not in the millennium.

Zechariah 14:1-5 NKJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

Since when did the Day of the Lord happen during the millennium? Zechariah 14:1-5 is Christ's return on earth and it happens during the tribulation.

Zechariah 14:12-14 NKJV
12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:

Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.

13 It shall come to pass in that day
That a great panic from the Lord will be among them.
Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor,
And raise his hand against his neighbor’s hand;
14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem.
And the wealth of all the surrounding nations
Shall be gathered together:
Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

A nuclear bomb does not drop on Jerusalem during the millennium either. Zechariah 14:12 happens during the tribulation.

*********************************************

The only place Zechariah spoke of the millennium is at the end of his book in Zechariah 14:16-21.

Zechariah 14:16-21 NKJV
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

Seriously, did you just recently started studying bible prophecy, found the message in Haggai 2:20, got excited over your discovery and decided to share this find with the world? In case you don't know, some of us already knew the prophecy in Haggai before you joined this forum 2 months ago and already held discussions on the book of Haggai.

You've shown no knowledge on the books of Haggai and Ezra. Now you show the same ignorance on the book of Zechariah too. You're the only person I've ever heard claim Zechariah as prophetic book about the millennium. Do you honestly think the millennium is this doom and gloom?

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The prophetic books are not limited to only prophesying about the MILLENIAL or only the tribulation or only the second coming or only Christs first coming. Each and every Prophet had the capacity the see at anytime into the future. Or to give any historical account. It all depends on how God speaks to them. There's no doubt you are very confused. You disregard the clear teaching of the scriptures to support you incorrect views. A prophet can give a historical account, or a prophecy about anytime in the future. They speak for God, and God is not constrained by time. He sees the beginning to the end of time.

I been shown the true meaning of Zechariah 4 on 11-11-2003. The Lord has recently stirred up my spirit and shown me that Haggai 2:20-23 has been spoken. It's right for me to warn. Again, be prepared those events described above will happen soon. I've given you the key to understanding which messages are past and future in Haggai only.

Since you believe Haggai and Zechariah are limited to prophesying only about a certain time, your understanding is limited. A prophet can speak for anytime...history or in the future. The events in Ezra 4:24 even until the completion of coincide with Haggai 1.

You claimed the second temple was built with tin and wood?

The bible says not so. Ezra 5:8 Ezra 6:3-5 Ezra 6:8-9 huge stones and timber and prospered much...etc. etc. much of what you say can be disproved in the Bible. Zechariah 2:4-5 is clearly speaking of the Millinium, but you disregard it. Do you really think Christ will be the glory in the midst of Jerusalem during the abomination of desolation? That He'll be a wall of fire around Jerusalem during the abomination of desolation? Zechariah 3 is all about the Branch. Zechariah 4 is all about the 2, well really 1 of the witnesses.

We keep going over the same things but you disregard the bible. You say the other 10 tribes didn't return during Ezra. But, Ezra 1:5 says EVEN EVERYONE whose spirit the Lord stirred retuned. Along with the head fathers if of Judah, Benjamin, and the priests and Levites. Please read the bible. Ezra 2:2 mentions the people of ISRAEL! Ezra 4:3 Mentions the chief fathers of ISRAEL! Ezra 6:16 mentions the sons of ISRAEL! Jerusalem is right on the lands of Judah and Benjamin! That's their allotted portion.

I was feeling sorry for you, but you just keep burying yourself deeper and avoiding the truth of scripture. Without realizing the fact that, THE PROPHETS ARENT LIMITED to prophesying about a certain time period. Just as God sees from Begining to end He relays that to His prophets and they speak it.

If you're not willing to admit Ezra 4:24 and Haggai 1:14-15 speak about the same time the SECOND YEAR of DARIUS and the SAME event. Resuming work on the second temple...then You disregard scripture. Haggai 1 is all about the plight of the people and then saying it's not time to build Gods House. Haggai 1:8 the people respond to Gods word. Haggai 1:12 Haggai 1:13 the Lord is with them Ezra 5:5 in Haggai and Ezra then they begin building the same temple in Haggai 1:8 in the SECOND YEAR of DARIUS Haggai 1:14-15 Ezra 4:24 Ezra 5:1-2 the same people Zerubbabel and Joshua and the people of the land (the sons of Israel) Ezra 6:16 finished in the SIXTH year of DARIUS Ezra 6:14-15. Urged by the prophets. How do you blatantly disregard scripture?

Why do you keep asking about Haggai 2:18-19 as if I think it's past? Do you see Darius's name in the day or date? Its FUTURE. Only Haggai now, don't twist. Its NOT for the second temple era!

Fusion77 · Feb 5, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
Worst case of cherry-picking scriptures I've ever seen. Do you always assume cats and dogs are the same animals because they both have certain parallels? Because both have 2 ears, 2 eyes, 1 nose and 1 mouth, this makes dogs and cats the same animal to you?

You've continued to push this issue over and over again dogmatically claiming the books of Haggai and Ezra as being the same because they both mentioned just "one single" parallel: "the second year of Darius" without taking into consideration tons of conflicting views.

All you're doing is just following one parallel while ignoring 15 plus conflicting views mentioned in the bible. You're totaling disregarding the bible trying to get it to conform to your own view.

Do you understand at all what I wrote in post #97 about what God stated in Haggai 2:3? When the foundation was being worked on, God praised the appearance of this new temple being better than those in the past. The second temple described by Ezra was pitiful made from poverty. The first temple was made with King Solomon's riches and wealth built on marvel and gold. There's no way Haggai was writing about the same temple Ezra wrote. The temple written by Ezra was inferior to the first temple.

You're also ignoring all the other conflicting views I've mentioned in post #89.

ai to Zechariah (prophecy on the rebuilding of the 3rd temple).

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a) Jerusalem and the temple was destroyed and became an empty city for 70 years when the captives returned. (2 Chronicles 36:19-21).
b) Jerusalem is occupied with people living in nice homes, producing crops and working. People are already there. (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-10).

a) Tribes of Judah and Benjamin returns to the holy land to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple (Ezra 1:5). The other 10 tribes does not return.
b) Jerusalem is already occupied before the construction of the temple. (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-10)

a) Construction of the temple began immediately after the return of the captives from Babylon after 70 years. (Ezra 3:6-8, 2 Chronicles 36:21).
b) Construction of the temple delay for 70 years after the Jews return to Israel. (Zechariah 1:12, Zechariah 7:5, Daniel 9:2).

a) Foundation of the 2nd temple completed. (Ezra 3:10).
b) Foundation of the 3rd temple completed. (Haggai 2:18).

a) God did not promise great blessings and prosperity for the construction of the 2nd temple when the foundation was completed. (Nothing found in 2 Chronicles, Ezra or Nehemiah).
b) God promised great blessings and prosperity for the construction of the 3rd temple when the foundation is completed. (Haggai 2:18-19).

a) Construction of the 2nd temple ran into problems and adversity. (Ezra 4-5) The prophet Daniel also revealed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem will be rebuilt during troublesome times. (Daniel 9:25).
b) Construction of the 3rd temple will be built with no problems and with aid from people all over the world. (Zechariah 6:15)

a) Construction of Jerusalem also ran into problems and adversity and a wall constructed to protect the city. (Nehemiah 2:19-6:14). The prophet Daniel also revealed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem will be rebuilt during troublesome times. (Daniel 9:25). Jerusalem is a city with walls!
b) Jerusalem not in ruins. Jerusalem expands with prosperity without a wall surrounding the city. (Zechariah 2:4-5). Read this again! Jerusalem is a city without walls! (Zechariah 2:4-5). It's also mentioned in Ezekiel's prophecy of future Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 38:11).

a) God does not return to Jerusalem. Nothing found in Ezra to Nehemiah.
b) God returns to Jerusalem and blesses everything. (Zechariah 1:16-17, Zechariah 8:1-23). Church is gone and God focuses His attention once again to Israel. Daniel's 70th week begins.

a) Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned to Jerusalem during the time of the 2nd temple. (Ezra 1:5).
b) The House of Judah is seen together with the House of Israel. All the tribes of Jacob is back in the holy land. (Zechariah 8:13, Zechariah 10).

a) God never mentioned the shaking of heaven and earth in Ezra to Nehemiah.
b) God promised to shake heaven and earth. (Haggai 2:6, Haggai 2:21-22)

a) The two witnesses are not seen anywhere in Ezra and Nehemiah after the foundation was completed.
b) The two witnesses are revealed in Zechariah 4:12-14.

a) No mentioning of the Lord's return anywhere in Ezra and Nehemiah.
b) Christ returns in Zechariah 14:4-5.

Did you just recently started studying bible prophecy? I already told you in post #66, how many more times do I need to tell you? It's a common practise for prophets to use the ancient names of cities, countries and people associated within their own time when prophesying about the future.

You need to watch this video from Joel who's one of the best scholars on Middle East prophecy. He can explain it better than me.

And where do you come up with such nonsense that it only involves Darius' name and only in the book of Haggai, and not names of other past biblical characters or books? Such gobbledygook eschatology!

The only smokescreen is what's in front of you as you can't seem to see or understand the things you read in the bible.

Case and point. Darius' name is mentioned twice in Haggai 1, you already claim the entire first chapter is past because of his name being there.

In chapter 2, Darius is mention once in Haggai 2:10. It said on the 24th day of the 9th month in the 2nd year.

Read the rest of chapter. the 24th day of the 9th month appears in Haggai 2:18 when the foundation was completed and Haggai 2:20 when God announced the shaking of heaven and earth. All this information from Haggai 2:10-23 happens on the same day: 24th day on the 9th month. It doesn't matter if Darius' name also appears in the middle and the end of Haggai 2 as it all happens on the same day. THE SAME DAY!!!!!!!

By your logic and reasoning involving the use of the name Darius, pretty much the entire book of Haggai is all past, having no bearing on the future! Complete Gobbledygook Eschatology!

Haggai 2:10-23 GNT
10 On the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month of the second year that Darius was emperor, the Lord Almighty spoke again to the prophet Haggai. 11 He said, “Ask the priests for a ruling on this question: 12 Suppose someone takes a piece of consecrated meat from a sacrifice and carries it in a fold of his robe. If he then lets his robe touch any bread, cooked food, wine, olive oil, or any kind of food at all, will it make that food consecrated also?”

When the question was asked, the priests answered, “No.”

13 Then Haggai asked, “Suppose someone is defiled because he has touched a dead body. If he then touches any of these foods, will that make them defiled too?”

The priests answered, “Yes.”

14 Then Haggai said, “The Lord says that the same thing applies to the people of this nation and to everything they produce; and so everything they offer on the altar is defiled.”

15 The Lord says, “Can't you see what has happened to you? Before you started to rebuild the Temple, 16 you would go to a pile of grain expecting to find twenty bushels, but there would be only ten. You would go to draw fifty gallons of wine from a vat, but find only twenty. 17 I sent scorching winds and hail to ruin everything you tried to grow, but still you did not repent. 18 Today is the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, the day that the foundation of the Temple has been completed. See what is going to happen from now on.19 Although there is no grain left, and the grapevines, fig trees, pomegranates, and olive trees have not yet produced, yet from now on I will bless you.”

20 On that same day, the twenty-fourth of the month, the Lord gave Haggai a second message 21 for Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah: “I am about to shake heaven and earth 22 and overthrow kingdoms and end their power. I will overturn chariots and their drivers; the horses will die, and their riders will kill one another. 23 On that day I will take you, Zerubbabel my servant, and I will appoint you to rule in my name. You are the one I have chosen.” The LordAlmighty has spoken.

Seriously, did you just recently started studying bible prophecy, found the message in Haggai 2:20, got excited over your discovery and decided to share this find with the world? In case you don't know, some of us already knew the prophecy in Haggai before you joined this forum 2 months ago and already held discussions on the book of Haggai. Anyways, you're so lost on this prophecy you're constantly spelling it LSTO and don't even realized it.

.

I'll answer the first 2 points. As its too much to go into everything at once.

You said,

letter a) represents the second temple and letter b) represents the 3rd temple and time period. The bible says no!__________\\_______________________________________
a) God called King Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:21-23) to issue a decree for the return of the Jewish back to the holy land and to start construction of Jerusalem and the temple.
b) God calls Haggai to tell the people in Jerusalem and explain to them why their land isn't blessed (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-11), and to start rebuilding the temple. (Haggai 1:7-8, Haggai).
a) King Cyrus issued a decree for the Jews to return and begin rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple. (Ezra 1:1-4).
b) Haggai issues God message to the people. (Haggai 1:12-13)__________________________________________________________
My answer,
Cyrus was king over the entire empire from 539 BC until 530 BC in his second year the foundation was laid. Because the Jews did come relatively soon, but it takes time to travel. Ezra 3:8 in the SECOND YEAR of their return (536 BC) the foundation only was laid Ezra 3:10. The Jews encounter adversity and cease the work shortly after the foundation is laid. Ezra 4:4-5 shortly after the foundation is laid, the work ceased until the reign of Darius. Again Ezra 4:24. Haggai 1:14-15 After the foundation was completed... The Jews stopped work,and built houses for themselves and neglected building the house of God for 16 plus years. Haggai 1:2 addresses this. Then, They are urged by the prophets to resume building in Haggai 1:7-8 Ezra 5:1-2 shows the parallel account. This happens 16 YEARS LATER 2ND YEAR OF DARIUS Haggai 1:1 (520 or 519 BC) Ezra 4:24 the prophets ( Haggai and Zechariah) that urged them are found in Ezra 5:1-2 they urged from the WORD OF GOD. IN ThE NAME OF THE GOD OF ISRAEL. Ezra 5:1 again. The word of the Lord came to Haggai in the second year of Darius (520 BC) Haggai 1:1. 16+ years after the Jews had made excuses, about building the temple. He encouraged the people. Haggai 1:7-8 Account found in Also in Ezra 5:2 Ezra 6:14 successful in building through THE ENCOURAGEMENT OF THE PROPHETS/ SUPPORTING THEM! Haggai Explains why they're not blessed in Haggai 1:3-6 because they tended to their own wants and neglected the Lords house, for 16 + years. We see this in Haggai 1:2 they neglected the building for 16+ years! Haggai tells them what to do Haggai 1:7-8 and the people obey Haggai 1:12 Ezra 4:24 the lord declares He is with them Haggai 1:13 same account found in Ezra 5:5 the eye of God was upon them! the people resumed building on 24th 6th month SECOND YEAR OF DARIUS! Ezra 4:24 SAME THING, SAME TIME! There's not just 1 parallel! EVERYTHING IS A PARALLEL! There was a 16+ year gap in the time between the completion of the foundation Ezra 3:10 (536 BC 2-3 year of Cyrus) and the beginning of the work on the temple structure Ezra 4:24 Haggai 1:14-15 (2 year of Darius 520 or 519 BC).

piece by piece I'll show you the truth. Please if you could provide your rebuttal to this. I would ask that you don't get sidetracked. The truth is there's no answer to this except you didn't read it? Or you disregard scripture.

The bible is clear Haggai 1 gives the same account as Ezra 4:24- Ezra 6:16. I'll knock down your next question as soon as we get through this.You can't say it doesn't mention the completion, because right here it tells us the prophets Haggai and Zechariah were involved. Ezra 6:14

You say 1 parallel? Okay? same prophets Haggai and Zechariah. Ezra 5:1-2 Ezra 6:14--Haggai 1 and Zechariah. Same time period,2nd year of Darius Ezra 4:24 and Haggai 1:14-15 The Lord is with them in both cases...Ezra 5:5 and Haggai 1:13. Commanded, encouraged regarding Building a temple Haggai 1:8 and Ezra 5:1 and Haggai Same people, building the temple Zerubbabel, Joshua, and the children of Israel found in Haggai 1:1 Haggai 1:12 parallel in Ezra 5:1-2 Ezra 6:16. ITS ALL A PARALLEL!! Haggai 1 and Ezra 4:24-6:16 is all a parallel! All speaking of the second temple era.

Psalm3704 · Feb 6, 2016

Fusion77 said:
Mid trib? The rapture is post tribulation.

That's not what you said below. If you believe the rapture happens at the 7th trumpet and the church gets rapture at that point before God pours out the vial judgments, that's mid trib. This is not post trib.

Fusion77 said:
So 3.5 years tribulation is the wrath of satan then the church is removed,and then comes the wrath of God, after the 7th trumpet (possibly almost simultaneously with the 7th (last) trumpet.

Don't get me wrong, Tribulation will continue for those left on earth (Gods wrath). I believe the tribulation for the church and right standing Jews, will be 3.5 years (satans wrath).

Fusion77 said:
After the witnesses are caught up the church is caught up at the 7th (last) trumpet. The work of the Church and the witnesses is DONE! Do think the Lord will keep them there just to suffer through His wrath? NO! They'll be Caught and immediately after His wrath will be poured out without dilution onto the inhabitants of the earth. These inhabitants are the ones who heard the daily messages and refused to repent. We will NOT be here for the wrath of God as represented in the vial judgements. Revelation 16:1.

The job of the church including witnesses in final 3.5 is to witness in the midst of tribulation to bring people to Christ. When their job is finished, they're outta there! No facing the vial judgements.

.

Psalm3704 · Feb 6, 2016

Fusion77 said:
The prophetic books are not limited to only prophesying about the MILLENIAL or only the tribulation or only the second coming or only Christs first coming. Each and every Prophet had the capacity the see at anytime into the future. Or to give any historical account. It all depends on how God speaks to them. There's no doubt you are very confused. You disregard the clear teaching of the scriptures to support you incorrect views. A prophet can give a historical account, or a prophecy about anytime in the future. They speak for God, and God is not constrained by time. He sees the beginning to the end of time.

I been shown the true meaning of Zechariah 4 on 11-11-2003. The Lord has recently stirred up my spirit and shown me that Haggai 2:20-23 has been spoken. It's right for me to warn. Again, be prepared those events described above will happen soon. I've given you the key to understanding which messages are past and future in Haggai only.

Since you believe Haggai and Zechariah are limited to prophesying only about a certain time, your understanding is limited. A prophet can speak for anytime...history or in the future. The events in Ezra 4:24 even until the completion of the temple coincide with Haggai 1.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

The prophets are fine, the bible is perfect. The problem is "YOU" and your ability to understand the bible, knowing how to differentiate what's prophecy and what's historic. And if anyone disagrees with your error, you view them as heretics. My view is consistent with the bible. My view only disagrees with yours, not the bible.

That's a big difference.

Case of your errors below:

Fusion77 said:
The bible says not so. Ezra 5:8 Ezra 6:3-5 Ezra 6:8-9 huge stones and timber etc. etc. much of what you say can be disproved in the Bible. Zechariah 2:4-5 is clearly speaking of the Millinium, but you disregard it. You think Christ will be the glory in the midst of Jerusalem and a wall of fire of protection during the 3rd temple era? Really? Zechariah 3 is all about the Branch. Zechariah 4 is all about the 2, well really 1 of the witnesses.

NO! NO! NO!

Zechariah 2:4-5 is NOT a prophecy of the millennium. Read verses 6-7. The Jewish people don't get scatter in the millennium. This is NOT describing the millennium. YOU NEED TO LEARN TO READ EVERYTHING OR UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING YOU READ!

Zechariah 2:4-7 ERV
4 He said to him, “Run and tell that young man this:
‘Jerusalem will be a city without walls,
because there will be too many people and animals living there.’
5 The Lord says,
‘I will be a wall of fire around her, to protect her,
and to bring glory to that city, I will live there.’”
The Lord says,
6 “Hurry! Leave the land in the North in a hurry.
Yes, it is true that I scattered your people in every direction.
7 You people from Zion now live in Babylon.
Escape! Run away from that city!”

Terrible case of cherry picking scripture!

*****************

And I already told you, Christ does NOT return until Zechariah 14:4. I told you, Zechariah 1:16 implies God's spirit is returning to dwell amongst the Israelites within the temple. God is turning His attention back to the Jewish people after 2000 years working with the gentiles.

Do you need a babysitter to translate everything for you into kindergarten terminology? How do you not know these things and be so dogmatic at the same time?

*****************

And Zechariah 4 does have the two witnesses mentioned. You just think one of them is Zerubbabel. That's your error.

Fusion77 said:
We keep going over the same things but you disregard the bible. You say the other 10 tribes didn't return during Ezra. But, Ezra 1:5 says EVEN EVERYONE whose spirit the Lord stirred retuned. Along with the head fathers if of Judah, Benjamin, and the priests and Levites. Please read the bible. Ezra 2:2 mentions the people of ISRAEL! Ezra 4:3 Mentions the chief fathers of ISRAEL! Ezra 6:16 mentions the sons of ISRAEL! Jerusalem is right on the lands of Judah and Benjamin! That's their allotted portion.

NO! NO! NO! An emphatic NO!

The 10 tribes never returned after the babylonian exile. Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned. Just because you see the word Israel in Ezra 6:16 doesn't mean all of Jacob's descendant returned after the exile.

It's amazing, each day you reveal new level of ignorance about the bible, prophecy, the Jewish people etc. While not knowing anything is fine and human, but not knowing anything and mouth off as if you know everything is another thing.

***********************************************

Do you know what your problem is Fusion77?

You're telling people based on Haggai 2:20-23, the date of this shaking happens shortly after 12/06/2015. I already told you the year is incorrect. The bible points to a different year. You refused to believe me. Than I tried to show you in Haggai 2:18-19 that Haggai mentioned the temple foundation had to be completed before any shaking begins.

We don't see construction on a 3rd temple at this time. There's no evidence of a foundation as of 12/06/2015. You continue to blatantly disregard scripture: Haggai 2:18 and other parts of the bible that reveals a different year.

Fusion77 said:
I believe with a certainty of about 99% that this message has gone forth on the 24th day of the 9th month (Kislev) in our year 2015, which was the first day of Chanukah, which is the first day of the feast of dedication, which was on 12/06/2015. I do not know exactly when this "shaking" will occur, but I believe it will be this year. of course, it could be more than a year. I will move one punctuation mark from 2:20-21 Look at Haggai 2:20-21 in the ESV a good word for word. I will simply move one period.
the word of the Lord came a second time to Haggai. On the 24th day of the month, Speak to Zerubbabel, the Governor of Judah saying "I am about to shake the heavens and the earth".

.

.

Psalm3704 · Feb 6, 2016

Fusion77 said:
You said,
letter a) represents the second temple and letter b) represents the 3rd temple and time period. The bible says no!__________\\_______________________________________
a) God called King Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:21-23) to issue a decree for the return of the Jewish back to the holy land and to start construction of Jerusalem and the temple.
b) God calls Haggai to tell the people in Jerusalem and explain to them why their land isn't blessed (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-11), and to start rebuilding the temple. (Haggai 1:7-8, Haggai).
a) King Cyrus issued a decree for the Jews to return and begin rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple. (Ezra 1:1-4).
b) Haggai issues God message to the people. (Haggai 1:12-13)__________________________________________________________
My answer,
Cyrus was king over the entire empire from 539 BC until 530 BC in his second year the foundation was laid. Because the Jews did come relatively soon, but it takes time to travel. Ezra 3:8 in the SECOND YEAR of their return (536 BC) the foundation only was laid Ezra 3:10. The Jews encounter adversity and cease the work shortly after the foundation is laid. Ezra 4:4-5 shortly after the foundation was laid, the work ceased until the reign of Darius.

If you're gonna argue about apples, than present a case about apples. Don't argue with oranges.

Here's the apple you're trying to debate:

You said,

letter a) represents the second temple and letter b) represents the 3rd temple and time period. The bible says no!__________\\_______________________________________

a) God called King Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:21-23) to issue a decree for the return of the Jewish back to the holy land and to start construction of Jerusalem and the temple.
b) God calls Haggai to tell the people in Jerusalem and explain to them why their land isn't blessed (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-11), and to start rebuilding the temple. (Haggai 1:7-8, Haggai).
a) King Cyrus issued a decree for the Jews to return and begin rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple. (Ezra 1:1-4).
b) Haggai issues God message to the people. (Haggai 1:12-13)__________________________________________________________

Here's your reply: (It's all about oranges. Nothing here about apple).

My answer,
Cyrus was king over the entire empire from 539 BC until 530 BC in his second year the foundation was laid. Because the Jews did come relatively soon, but it takes time to travel. Ezra 3:8 in the SECOND YEAR of their return (536 BC) the foundation only was laid Ezra 3:10. The Jews encounter adversity and cease the work shortly after the foundation is laid. Ezra 4:4-5 shortly after the foundation was laid, the work ceased until the reign of Darius.

King Cyrus is in 2 Chronicles 36:21-23. It about him calling the Jewish people to return to Jerusalem. It's not about the building of the temple foundation. You just skipped 3 chapters into Ezra and commented about the temple instead.

Stop making yourself look so ignorant and post something intelligence for once.

***********************************************

Do you know what your problem is Fusion77?

You're telling people based on Haggai 2:20-23, the date of this shaking happens shortly after 12/06/2015. I already told you the year is incorrect. The bible points to a different year. You refused to believe me. Than I tried to show you in Haggai 2:18-19 that Haggai mentioned the temple foundation had to be completed before any shaking begins.

We don't see construction on a 3rd temple at this time. There's no evidence of a foundation as of 12/06/2015. You continue to blatantly disregard scripture: Haggai 2:18 and other parts of the bible that reveals a different year.

Fusion77 said:
I believe with a certainty of about 99% that this message has gone forth on the 24th day of the 9th month (Kislev) in our year 2015, which was the first day of Chanukah, which is the first day of the feast of dedication, which was on 12/06/2015. I do not know exactly when this "shaking" will occur, but I believe it will be this year. of course, it could be more than a year. I will move one punctuation mark from 2:20-21 Look at Haggai 2:20-21 in the ESV a good word for word. I will simply move one period.
the word of the Lord came a second time to Haggai. On the 24th day of the month, Speak to Zerubbabel, the Governor of Judah saying "I am about to shake the heavens and the earth".

.

.

Fusion77 · Feb 6, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
If you're gonna argue about apples, than present a case about apples. Don't argue with oranges.

Here's the apple you're trying to debate:

You said,
letter a) represents the second temple and letter b) represents the 3rd temple and time period. The bible says no!__________\\_______________________________________

a) God called King Cyrus (2 Chronicles 36:21-23) to issue a decree for the return of the Jewish back to the holey land and to start construction of Jerusalem and the temple.
b) God calls Haggai to tell the people in Jerusalem and explain to them why their land isn't blessed (Haggai 1:3-6, Haggai 1:9-11), and to start rebuilding the temple. (Haggai 1:7-8, Haggai).
a) King Cyrus issued a decree for the Jews to return and begin rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple. (Ezra 1:1-4).
b) Haggai issues God message to the people. (Haggai 1:12-13)__________________________________________________________
Here's your reply: (It's all about oranges. Nothing here about apple).

My answer,
Cyrus was king over the entire empire from 539 BC until 530 BC in his second year the foundation was laid. Because the Jews did come relatively soon, but it takes time to travel. Ezra 3:8 in the SECOND YEAR of their return (536 BC) the foundation only was laid Ezra 3:10. The Jews encounter adversity and cease the work shortly after the foundation is laid. Ezra 4:4-5 shortly after the foundation was laid, the work ceased until the reign of Darius.

King Cyrus is in 2 Chronicles 36:21-23. It about him calling the Jewish people to return to Jerusalem. It's not about the building of the temple foundation. You just skipped 3 chapters into Ezra and commented about the temple instead.

Stop making yourself look so ignorant and post something intelligence for once.

***********************************************

Do you know what your problem is Fusion77?

You're telling people based on Haggai 2:20-23, the date of this shaking happens shortly after 12/06/2015. I already told you the year is incorrect. The bible points to a different year. You refused to believe me. Than I tried to show you in Haggai 2:18-19 that Haggai mentioned the temple foundation had to be completed before any shaking begins.

We don't see construction on a 3rd temple at this time. There's no evidence of a foundation as of 12/06/2015. You continue to blatantly disregard scripture: Haggai 2:18 and other parts of the bible that reveals a different year.

.

.

just as I thought, you make comparisons of fruit. Then call me ignorant again and suggest I have no intelligence regarding the scriptures. You fail to make any sort of rebuttal. Or focus on the substance of the debate.

It's common historical knowledge after the second temple foundation was laid there was a 16 or more year gap until they started the structure of the temple. Cyrus issued the decree in Ezra 1:1 in 538-539 BC

YOU Said below,

__________________________________________________________________
NO! NO! NO! An emphatic NO!

The 10 tribes never returned after the babylonian exile. Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned. Just because you see the word Israel in Ezra 6:16 doesn't mean all of Jacob's descendant returned after the exile.____________________________________________________________

You say ONLY the tribes of Judah and Benjamin return. But, the bible doesn't SPECIFICALLY say that,

NASB with my word in Parentheses,
Ezra 1:1-5
1Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, the LORDstirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put itin writing, saying:

2“Thus says Cyrus king of Persia, ‘The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and He has appointed me to build Him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. 3‘Whoever (DO YOU SEE THE WORD WHOEVER) there is among you of all His people, may his God be with him! Let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah and rebuild the house of the LORD, the God of Israel; He is the God who is in Jerusalem.4‘Every survivor, (EVERY SURVIVOR) at whatever place he may live, let the men of that place support him with silver and gold, with goods and cattle, together with a freewill offering for the house of God which is in Jerusalem.’”
5Then the heads of fathers’ households of Judah and Benjamin and the priests and the Levites arose, even everyone (EVERY ONE) whose spirit God had stirred to go up and rebuild the house of the LORDwhich is in Jerusalem

Clearly this states EVERY ONE who the Lord stirred went to rebuild the house. It does NOT state it was limited to the tribes of Judah and Benjamin! It states the Chief Fathers of Judah and Benjamin. Along with Priests and Levites. this was in 538-539 BC.

Haggai 1 was given in 520 BC! 18 years after Ezra 1! It does coincide with the time period of Ezra 4:24-6:16. 520-516 BC. Jerusalem is encompassed by The Lands of Judah and Benjamin. Judah and Benjamin ARE THE LANDS that encompass Jerusalem.

Ezra 2:2
2These came with Zerubbabel, Jeshua, Nehemiah, Seraiah, Reelaiah, Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispar, Bigvai, Rehum and Baanah.
The number of the men of the people of Israel: (PEOPLE OF ISRAEL).

Ezra 4:3
3But Zerubbabel and Jeshua and the rest of the heads of fathers’ households of Israel said to them (HOUSEHOLDS OF ISRAEL)!

Chapter 5:1 in come the prophets Zechariah and Haggai 520-516 BC
... It's the SECOND to SIXTH YEAR OF DARIUS REIGN!

Ezra 5:1
1When the prophets, Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied to the Jews (THE JEWS)who were in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, who was over them,

Ezra 6:16
16And the sons of Israel, (THE SONS OF ISRAEL) the priests, the Levites and the rest of the exiles, celebrated the dedication of this house of God with joy.

The sons of ISRAEL, the chief fatheres if ISRAEL etc. is all over Ezra 4:24-6:16 which is the same time Haggai and Zechariah prophesied. No where does it say ONLY the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned. Not even in Ezra 1:5

5Then the heads of fathers’ households of Judah and Benjamin and the priests and the Levites arose, even everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up and rebuild the house of the LORDwhich is in Jerusalem

It says EVEN EVERYONE! EVEN EVERYONE!

The decree that Cyrus made was a decree over the entir Media Persian empire. It applied to Jews that were taken captive by Assyria as well.

How could we ever know if NOBODY of the other 10 tribes returned? It was their choice if they wanted to return. It is a debatable issue.

The main point I'm making is that Haggai 1 has historically transpired. The people in Haggai 1 are the same people in Ezra 4:24 and Ezra 5:1-2. Whether I'm wrong in thinking that some people from the 10 tribes returned or not, has no bearing on the fact that Haggai 1 and Ezra 4:25-6:16 are the same account. I believe there WERE people from the 10 tribes though. There was always a remnant.

Fusion77 · Feb 6, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

The prophets are fine, the bible is perfect. The problem is "YOU" and your ability to understand the bible, knowing how to differentiate what's prophecy and what's historic. And if anyone disagrees with your error, you view them as heretics. My view is consistent with the bible. My view only disagrees with yours, not the bible.

That's a big difference.

Case of your errors below:

NO! NO! NO!

Zechariah 2:4-5 is NOT a prophecy of the millennium. Read verses 6-7. The Jewish people don't get scatter in the millennium. This is NOT describing the millennium. YOU NEED TO LEARN TO READ EVERYTHING OR UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING YOU READ!

Zechariah 2:4-7 ERV
4 He said to him, “Run and tell that young man this:
‘Jerusalem will be a city without walls,
because there will be too many people and animals living there.’
5 The Lord says,
‘I will be a wall of fire around her, to protect her,
and to bring glory to that city, I will live there.’”
The Lord says,
6 “Hurry! Leave the land in the North in a hurry.
Yes, it is true that I scattered your people in every direction.
7 You people from Zion now live in Babylon.
Escape! Run away from that city!”

Terrible case of cherry picking scripture!

*****************

And I already told you, Christ does NOT return until Zechariah 14:4. I told you, Zechariah 1:16 implies God's spirit is returning to dwell amongst the Israelites within the temple. God is turning His attention back to the Jewish people after 2000 years working with the gentiles.

Do you need a babysitter to translate everything for you into kindergarten terminology? How do you not know these things and be so dogmatic at the same time?

*****************

And Zechariah 4 does have the two witnesses mentioned. You just think one of them is Zerubbabel. That's your error.

NO! NO! NO! An emphatic NO!

The 10 tribes never returned after the babylonian exile. Only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned. Just because you see the word Israel in Ezra 6:16 doesn't mean all of Jacob's descendant returned after the exile.

It's amazing, each day you reveal new level of ignorance about the bible, prophecy, the Jewish people etc. While not knowing anything is fine and human, but not knowing anything and mouth off as if you know everything is another thing.

***********************************************

Do you know what your problem is Fusion77?

You're telling people based on Haggai 2:20-23, the date of this shaking happens shortly after 12/06/2015. I already told you the year is incorrect. The bible points to a different year. You refused to believe me. Than I tried to show you in Haggai 2:18-19 that Haggai mentioned the temple foundation had to be completed before any shaking begins.

We don't see construction on a 3rd temple at this time. There's no evidence of a foundation as of 12/06/2015. You continue to blatantly disregard scripture: Haggai 2:18 and other parts of the bible that reveals a different year.

.

.

Haggai 2:20-23 is a message to Zerubbabel. Haggai 2:18-19 is also a message only to Zerubbabel. Haggai 2:18 doesn't say there needs to be temple standing.

Bible > Hebrew > Haggai 2:18
◄ Haggai 2:18 ►
Text Analysis
Str Translit Hebrew English Morph
7760 [e] śî-mū- שִׂימוּ־ consider Verb
4994 [e] nā נָ֣א now Inj
3824 [e] lə-ḇaḇ-ḵem, לְבַבְכֶ֔ם consider Noun
4480 [e] min- מִן־ from Prep
3117 [e] hay-yō-wm הַיּ֥וֹם day Noun
2088 [e] haz-zeh הַזֶּ֖ה this Pro
4605 [e] wā-mā-‘ə-lāh; וָמָ֑עְלָה and upward Subst
3117 [e] mî-yō-wm מִיּוֹם֩ day Noun
6242 [e] ‘eś-rîm עֶשְׂרִ֨ים twentieth Noun
702 [e] wə-’ar-bā-‘āh וְאַרְבָּעָ֜ה and from the four Noun
8671 [e] lat-tə-šî-‘î, לַתְּשִׁיעִ֗י of the ninth Adj
4480 [e] lə-min- לְמִן־ day Prep
3117 [e] hay-yō-wm הַיּ֛וֹם [month even] the day Noun
834 [e] ’ă-šer- אֲשֶׁר־ that Prt
3245 [e] yus-saḏ יֻסַּ֥ד the foundation Verb
1964 [e] hê-ḵal- הֵֽיכַל־ temple Noun
3068 [e] Yah-weh יְהוָ֖ה of the LORD Noun
7760 [e] śî-mū שִׂ֥ימוּ consider Verb
3824 [e] lə-ḇaḇ-ḵem. לְבַבְכֶֽם׃ heart Noun
Hebrew Texts

All it says to( Zerubbabel) is to consider in his heart from the day the foundation of the Lords temple was laid until the day he received the message.
Is the seed in the barn? Haggai 2:19.
The seed represents the Word of God Luke
8:11 ESV Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.

This Zerubbabel will be a sower of seed (word of God) in end time Babylon (NOW, the world as a whole is a slave to sin). This is not a message for anyone, it is just for him. It does NOT say the 3rd temple foundation must be laid.

( Zerubbabel)consider in your heart. From the day the foundation was laid until the day you received this message

Isaiah 28:16

16Therefore thus says the Lord GOD,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.

Ephesians 2:20-22

20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

It's not given for most to understand. It's the veiled word of The Lord God Almighty. Just accept my warning.

In essence, the message to Zerubbabel is to be sure he has the "seed" word of God stored/gathered up in his heart. He will soon be witnessing to the world.

Haggai 2:20-23 is another message to Zerubbabel only. That message has gone forth. Forget the 99% ,I'm 100%. I'm trying to warn people just to make sure their spiritual house is in order.

Here is Haggai 2:20-21 in the ESV I'll move one period, as the original writings had no periods.

20The word of the LORD came a second time to Haggai. on the twenty-fourth day of the month, 21“Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I am about to shake the heavens and the earth

That message HAS gone forth! the Lord told Haggai to speak through His word on THAT DAY! Why not wait and see? Then, if it doesn't happen by the end of next year I'll apologize whenever I'm in this forum for giving a false warning. But if it does happen, my intent is to warn people to be prepared.

The book of Haggai has a reference to all 4 physical temples and even the spiritual temple as described in Ephesians 2:20-22. And again
Again in 1 Peter 2:4-6

As Living Stones

4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, APRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BEDISAPPOINTED.”

EVERY TEMPLE is at least made reference to in the book of Haggai. Haggai 1 is ALL about the second temple! How could there even be a debate on this?

This Zerubbabel that is here now is NOT a physical builder! He is a SPIRITUAL BUILDER! Building living stones! A spiritual temple! His ministry begins after this shaking.

Psalm3704 · Feb 6, 2016

Fusion77 said:
You say ONLY the tribes of Judah and Benjamin return. But, the bible doesn't SPECIFICALLY say that...

And I'll say it again, only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned to the holy land after the Babylonian exile. The house of Israel did NOT return, only the house of Judah returned. The house of Israel did NOT occupy the holy land anytime during the period of the second temple. The house of Israel did NOT return to the holy land in 1948 either.

You can keep arguing this till your head turns pinkish-blue and you'll still be wrong.

You can hold your breath till your face turns purple and you'll still be wrong.

You can pound your forehead on the desk till it cracks and you'll still be wrong.

You can smash your face against the pavement till you get a bloody nose and you'll still be wrong.

Fusion77 said:
It says EVEN EVERYONE! EVEN EVERYONE!

The decree that Cyrus made was a decree over the entir Media Persian empire. It applied to Jews that were taken captive by Assyria as well.

How could we ever know if NOBODY of the other 10 tribes returned? It was their choice if they wanted to return. It is a debatable issue.

WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!!

When Cyrus called back the Jewish people to rebuild the temple and the holy land, the Jews that were dispersed by the Assyrians did not return.

.

Psalm3704 · Feb 6, 2016

Fusion77 said:
Haggai 2:20-23 is a message to Zerubbabel. Haggai 2:18-19 is also a message only to Zerubbabel. Haggai 2:18 doesn't say there needs to be temple standing.

Bible > Hebrew > Haggai 2:18
◄ Haggai 2:18 ►
Text Analysis
Str Translit Hebrew English Morph
7760 [e] śî-mū- שִׂימוּ־ consider Verb
4994 [e] nā נָ֣א now Inj
3824 [e] lə-ḇaḇ-ḵem, לְבַבְכֶ֔ם consider Noun
4480 [e] min- מִן־ from Prep
3117 [e] hay-yō-wm הַיּ֥וֹם day Noun
2088 [e] haz-zeh הַזֶּ֖ה this Pro
4605 [e] wā-mā-‘ə-lāh; וָמָ֑עְלָה and upward Subst
3117 [e] mî-yō-wm מִיּוֹם֩ day Noun
6242 [e] ‘eś-rîm עֶשְׂרִ֨ים twentieth Noun
702 [e] wə-’ar-bā-‘āh וְאַרְבָּעָ֜ה and from the four Noun
8671 [e] lat-tə-šî-‘î, לַתְּשִׁיעִ֗י of the ninth Adj
4480 [e] lə-min- לְמִן־ day Prep
3117 [e] hay-yō-wm הַיּ֛וֹם [month even] the day Noun
834 [e] ’ă-šer- אֲשֶׁר־ that Prt
3245 [e] yus-saḏ יֻסַּ֥ד the foundation Verb
1964 [e] hê-ḵal- הֵֽיכַל־ temple Noun
3068 [e] Yah-weh יְהוָ֖ה of the LORD Noun
7760 [e] śî-mū שִׂ֥ימוּ consider Verb
3824 [e] lə-ḇaḇ-ḵem. לְבַבְכֶֽם׃ heart Noun
Hebrew Texts

All it says to (Zerubbabel) is to consider in his heart from the day the foundation of the Lords temple was laid until the day he received the message.
Is the seed in the barn? Haggai 2:19.
The seed represents the Word of God Luke
8:11 ESV Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.

This Zerubbabel will be a sower of seed (word of God) in end time Babylon (NOW, the world as a whole is a slave to sin). This is not a message for anyone, it is just for him. It does NOT say the 3rd temple foundation must be laid.

( Zerubbabel) consider in your heart. From the day the foundation was laid until the day you received this message

Isaiah 28:16

16Therefore thus says the Lord GOD,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.

Ephesians 2:20-22

20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

And again in 1 Peter 2:4-6

As Living Stones

4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, APRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BEDISAPPOINTED.”

It's not given for most to understand. It's the veiled word of The Lord God Almighty. Just accept my warning.

In essence, the message to Zerubbabel is to be sure he has the "seed" word of God stored/gathered up in his heart. He will soon be witnessing to the world.

Haggai 2:20-23 is another message to Zerubbabel only. That message has gone forth. Forget the 99% ,I'm 100%. I'm trying to warn people just to make sure their spiritual house is in order.

Here is Haggai 2:20-21 in the ESV I'll move one period, as the original writings had no periods.

20The word of the LORD came a second time to Haggai. on the twenty-fourth day of the month, 21“Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I am about to shake the heavens and the earth

That message HAS gone forth! the Lord told Haggai to speak through His word on THAT DAY! Why not wait and see? Then, if it doesn't happen by the end of next year I'll apologize whenever I'm in this forum for giving a false warning. But if it does happen, my intent is to warn people to be prepared.

The book of Haggai has a reference to all 4 physical temples and even the spiritual temple as described in Ephesians 2:20-22. Again in 1 Peter 2:4-6

As Living Stones

4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, APRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BEDISAPPOINTED.”

EVERY TEMPLE is referenced in the book of Haggai...4 physical 1 spiritual. Haggai 1 is ALL about the second temple! How could there even be a debate on this?

This Zerubbabel that is here now is NOT a physical builder! He is a SPIRITUAL BUILDER! It is living stones! His ministry begins after this shaking!

Fusion77 said:
This Zerubbabel that is here now is NOT a physical builder! He is a SPIRITUAL BUILDER! It is living stones! His ministry begins after this shaking!

Just get over it. Haggai completely debunked your fable claim of any shaking happening after 12/06/2015 with Haggai 2:18. So does Zachariah, he too debunked your false delusion the 24th day of the 9th month fell on the year 2015.

By the way, today is 02/06/2016, still no shaking of heaven and earth!

Now all you're doing is trying to discredit Haggai with more deceptions, this time claiming the temple being a spiritual temple using scriptures cherry picked of out context: Isaiah 28:16, Ephesians 2:20-22, 1 Peter 2:4-6.

Fusion77 said:
The book of Haggai has a reference to all 4 physical temples and even the spiritual temple as described in Ephesians 2:20-22. Again in 1 Peter 2:4-6

As Living Stones

4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, APRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BEDISAPPOINTED.”

EVERY TEMPLE is referenced in the book of Haggai...4 physical 1 spiritual. Haggai 1 is ALL about the second temple! How could there even be a debate on this?

Get your facts straight boy! No temple has ever been built on Mount Zion, and neither will the next temple. Both 1st and 2nd temple sat on Mount Moriah.

Your attempt to discredit the book of Haggai using 1 Peter 2:6 foiled again and just blew up in your face.

Kaboom! Nuclear Apocalypse.

***********************************************

Do you know what your problem is Fusion77?

You're telling people based on Haggai 2:20-23, the date of this shaking happens shortly after 12/06/2015. I already told you the year is incorrect. The bible points to a different year. You refused to believe me. Than I tried to show you in Haggai 2:18-19 that Haggai mentioned the temple foundation had to be completed before any shaking begins.

We don't see construction on a 3rd temple at this time. There's no evidence of a foundation as of 12/06/2015. You continue to blatantly disregard scripture: Haggai 2:18 and other parts of the bible that reveals a different year.

.

Fusion77 · Feb 7, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
And I'll say it again, only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin returned to the holy land after the Babylonian exile. The house of Israel did NOT return, only the house of Judah returned. The house of Israel did NOT occupy the holy land anytime during the period of the second temple. The house of Israel did NOT return to the holy land in 1948 either.

You can keep arguing this till your head turns pinkish-blue and you'll still be wrong.

You can hold your breath till your face turns purple and you'll still be wrong.

You can pound your forehead on the desk till it cracks and you'll still be wrong.

You can smash your face against the pavement till you get a bloody nose and you'll still be wrong.

WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!!

When Cyrus called back the Jewish people to rebuild the temple and the holy land, the Jews that were dispersed by the Assyrians did not return.

.

2 Chronicles 11:16-17. Even after the split there was always a remnant of Israel that remained faithful.

16Those from all the tribes of Israel who set their hearts on seeking the LORDGod of Israel followed them to Jerusalem, to sacrifice to the LORD God of their fathers. 17They strengthened the kingdom of Judah and supported Rehoboam the son of Solomon for three years, for they walked in the way of David and Solomon for three years.

Always a remnant left! To say that ONLY Judah and Benjamin returned can't be proven in scripture...it is highly likely a remnant of the faithful also returned from Assyria and.

This is really not important to Haggai 1 having historically transpired. The same people in Haggai 1 are the same in Exra 4:24-6:16. Whether it was just a remnant of the 10 tribes, or much more. It doesn't matter!

Fusion77 · Feb 7, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
Just get over it. Haggai completely debunked your fable claim of any shaking happening after 12/06/2015 with Haggai 2:18. So does Zachariah, he too debunked your false delusion the 24th day of the 9th month fell on the year 2015.

By the way, today is 02/06/2016, still no shaking of heaven and earth!

Now all you're doing is trying to discredit Haggai with more deceptions, this time claiming the temple being a spiritual temple using scriptures cherry picked of out context: Isaiah 28:16, Ephesians 2:20-22, 1 Peter 2:4-6.

Get your facts straight boy! No temple has ever been built on Mount Zion, and neither will the next temple. Both 1st and 2nd temple sat on Mount Moriah.

Your attempt to discredit the book of Haggai using 1 Peter 2:6 foiled again and just blew up in your face.

Kaboom! Nuclear Apocalypse.

***********************************************

Do you know what your problem is Fusion77?

You're telling people based on Haggai 2:20-23, the date of this shaking happens shortly after 12/06/2015. I already told you the year is incorrect. The bible points to a different year. You refused to believe me. Than I tried to show you in Haggai 2:18-19 that Haggai mentioned the temple foundation had to be completed before any shaking begins.

We don't see construction on a 3rd temple at this time. There's no evidence of a foundation as of 12/06/2015. You continue to blatantly disregard scripture: Haggai 2:18 and other parts of the bible that reveals a different year.

.

out of context, what? We are the living stones! We are being built up into a spiritual temple!!!

1 Peter 2:4-6

4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, APRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BEDISAPPOINTED.”

Ephesians 2:20-22
20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Zerubbabel is a spiritual builder in Haggai 2 and Zechariah 4! It's spiritual work!

Zechariah 4:9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house, and his hands will finish it. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you.

Zerubbabel did NOT lay the foundation of the second temple. This is spiritual!

Ezra 3:9-10
9And Jeshua with his sons and his brothers, and Kadmiel and his sons, the sons of Judah, together supervised the workmen in the house of God, along with the sons of Henadad and the Levites, their sons and brothers.

10And when the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the LORD, the priests in their vestments came forward with trumpets, and the Levites, the sons of Asaph, with cymbals, to praise the LORD, according to the directions of David king of Israel. NO Zerubbabel!!!

Ezra 5:16

16Then this Sheshbazzar came and laid the foundations of the house of God that is in Jerusalem, and from that time until now it has been in building, and it is not yet finished.’

No Zerubbabel!!!!

ZERUBBABEL is a symbol of the witness in Haggai 2 and Zechariah 4!!!

Zechariah 3:8
Now listen, Joshua the high priest, you and your friends who are sitting in front of you—indeed they are men who are a symbol, for behold, I am going to bring in My servant the Branch.

YOU and your friends are a SYMBOL! WHO WAS JOSHUAS MAIN ASSOCIATE? Zerubbabel! He is a symbol of the witness.

3 verses later you have Zechariah 4 it's the same encounter with the same angel and then....

1Then the angel who was speaking with me returned and roused me, as a man who is awakened from his sleep.2He said to me, “What do you see?” And I said, “I see, and behold, a lampstand all of gold with its bowl on the top of it, and its seven lamps on it with seven spouts belonging to each of the lamps which are on the top of it; 3also two olive trees by it, one on the right side of the bowl and the other on its left side.”

(You can't separate this vision from Zerubbabel! It's the word of the Lord God Almighty to Zerubbabel!... The olive trees, the olive branches, the oil, the lamps and the lampstand...THAT IS HIS MESSAGE!!!!!!!)

4Then I said to the angel who was speaking with me saying, “What are these, my lord?” 5So the angel who was speaking with me answered and said to me, “Do you not know what these are?” And I said, “No, my lord.” 6Then he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel saying, ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ says the LORD of hosts.

(It says right here, those objects are the Lords message to ZERUBBABEL!!!!! Do you think the Spirit of God is concerned with physical building???)

7‘What are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain; and he will bring forth the top stone with shouts of “Grace, grace to it!”’”

8Also the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 9“The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house, and his hands will finish it. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you.

(Zerubbabel did NOT lay the foundation of the second temple!!!!)

◄ 3248. yesudah ► is where the word for foundation is derived, in Zechariah 4:9 It's a feminine NOUN. 1 other occurrence! Psalms 87:1

1His foundation is in the holy mountains.

Zechariah 4:10
10“For who has despised the day of small things? But these seven will be glad when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel—these are the eyes of the LORD which range to and fro throughout the earth.”

(Only the Spirit of God sees what Zerubbabel did in 7-10!!! He is a Spiritual builder!!!!)

11Then I said to him, “What are these two olive trees on the right of the lampstand and on its left?” 12And I answered the secuond time and said to him, “What are the two olive branches which are beside the two golden pipes, which empty the golden oil from themselves?” 13So he answered me, saying, “Do you not know what these are?” And I said, “No, my lord.” 14Then he said, “These are the two anointed ones who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth.”

(It's a further explanation of the vision In Zechariah 4:2-3! You CANT separate these objects from Zerubbabel! It's The word of the LORD to Zerubbabel!!!!

Zechariah 3:8
Now listen, Joshua the high priest, you and your friends who are sitting in front of you—indeed they are men who are a symbol, for behold, I am going to bring in My servant the Branch.

JOSHUAS friend ZERUBBABEL is a symbol!!! Of the witness! There's nothing physical in Zechariah 4! Nothing in Zechariah 4 pertains to the Zerubbabel of the second temple era!!! It's ALL about the 2 witnesses!!!!

Haggai 2:4-5 4‘But now take courage, Zerubbabel,’ declares the LORD, ‘take courage also, Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and all you people of the land take courage,’ declares the LORD, ‘and work;

(this is NOT speaking of physical work! It is building living stones!)

for I am with you,’ declares the LORD of hosts. 5‘As for the promise which I made you when you came out of Egypt, My Spirit is abiding in your midst; do not fear!’

(The Spirit of God is involved in this spiritual work!! It is NOT pyhsical work).

The first day of the feast of dedication is sundown on 24th day of the 9th month (Hebrew Calendar). In 2015 it was 12/06. This year it will be December 24th. How do the prophets say that the first day of Chanukah didn't begin on sundown on 12/06/2015?

The Spiritual temple has been rededicated for building, and a revival will begin after this shaking! The Lord will pour out his Spirit and people will be receptive to receive Christ after this! There will be a war! It's described in Haggai 2:20-23! Be sure your spiritual house is in order, because it's not known where it will be centered.

It's perfectly Okay, you don't accept the plan of The Lord God Almighty, which is being unveiled, fine. But, It's probably not a good idea to mock it. It is The Lords Plan! It is NOT mine! But, I think it's awesome!

YOU CANT SEPARATE ZERUBBABEL FROM THE OBJECTS IN Zechariah 4:2-3
2 He said to me, “What do you see?” And I said, “I see, and behold, a lampstand all of gold with its bowl on the top of it, and its seven lamps on it with seven spouts belonging to each of the lamps which are on the top of it; 3also two olive trees by it, one on the right side of the bowl and the other on its left side.”

THE OLIVE TREES, OLIVE BRANCHES, OIL, LAMPSTAND, BOWL AND LAMPS ARE THE WORD OF GOD TO Zerubbabel!!!! NO ONE ELSE!!!!!

All verses are Nasb or ESV.

4 physical temples in Haggai including but not limited to.

Haggai 1:8. ( Second temple )
8Go up to the mountains, bring wood and rebuild the temple, (SECOND TEMPLE). that I may be pleased with it and be glorified,” says the LORD.

Haggai 2:3. (First and third temple)

3‘Who is left among you who saw this temple in its former glory? (FIRST TEMPLE) And how do you see it now? Does it not seem to you like nothing in comparison? (THE THIRD TEMPLE WITH THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE).

Haggai 2:9 (FOURTH TEMPLE)

9‘The latter glory of this house (4TH MILLENIAL TEMPLE) will be greater than the former,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘and in this place I will give peace,’ (4TH TEMPLE) declares the LORDof hosts.”

Here are the references to the spiritual temple

Haggai 2:18
(Spiritual temple) as described in Ephesians 2:20-22

18 ‘Do consider from this day onward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month;from the day when the temple of the LORDwas founded, (SPIRITUAL TEMPLE) consider:

Haggai 2:4

4'But now take courage, Zerubbabel,’ declares the LORD, ‘take courage also, Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and all you people of the land take courage,’ declares the LORD, ‘and work; (THE FINAL WORK ON THE SPIRITUAL TEMPLE STRUCTURE, FINAL 3.5 YEARS) for I am with you,’ declares the LORD of hosts.

You will not accept now. But at some point, you will!

These are references to all 4 physical and the spiritual temple. I did not include all references but gave and example of all 4 physical and the spiritual temple. They are all at least made reference to in the book of Haggai.

This shaking should happen this year. Before 12/26/2016 which is the 24th day of the 9th month 2016. It could be next year so be prepared.

stephen583 · Feb 9, 2016

Armoured said:
No one who knows anything about it believes this. Also, even if Iran DID have a functional, nuclear physics package in two years, it would take decades before they'd made enough to be considered "apocalyptic". Not to mention the glaring obvious fact that Iran lacks the three possible means for nuclear delivery, i.e. SLBMs, ICBMs and heavy strategic bombers.

"Iran's medium range ballistic missiles (MRBM's) are now capable of reaching Europe" (U.S. President Barack Obama, MSNBC News, Sept. 2009).

"The time from preparing a test of nuclear device, is a fraction of the time to build a missile deliverable warhead. That time in the case of IRAN will be measured in months" (Madeleine Albright, Former U.S. Sec. State, to the Council on Foreign Relations).

In 2012 the U.N. IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency), released detailed allegations on IRAN'S secret activities to develop a nuclear payload for a missile, (Associated Press).

On March 4, 2015 the IAEA publicly announces evidence has been found IRAN has been secretly working in the past to develop a nuclear weapon, (USA Today).

The Iranian Shahab 3 Medium Range Ballistic Missile (MRBM) has a range of 1,200 miles and can deliver up to a 2,000 lb. payload. The B and D variants slightly increase the range and guidance accuracy of the missile. It is a "road mobile" missile launch system, with HE , Chemical, Biological and Nuclear capabilities. Iran now possesses the largest arsenal of MRBM's in the Middle East, including Israel, (Jane's Defense Weekly).

So from the standpoint of European and Middle East security, it's irrelevant how long it takes IRAN to develop ICBM's, SLBM's or heavy bombers. They already have MRBM's that can do the job quite effectively. As for IRAN needing decades to produce enough bombs to be considered "apocalyptic" ?! That depends entirely on what your definition of "apocalyptic" is.

Iran's Ayatollah only needs one nuclear bomb to hit Tel Aviv with !.. The Israelis will retaliate (just as Benjamin Netanyahu has promised), and deliver the Iranian people to Paradise in accordance with the 75th Sura of the Koran, and Iran's ally Russia will retaliate with nuclear weapons and destroy Israel, (exactly what the Ayatollah wants).

You'd think having seen enough suicidal martyrs wearing explosive vests and blowing themselves up, would clarify just how dangerous religious fanaticism is. Frankly I'm not worried about someone who wants a thousand nuclear weapons, I'm worried about the fanatic who just wants one. And that isn't going to take twenty years to happen.

stephen583 · Feb 10, 2016

keras said:
There will be no 'nuclear apocalypse'.

Might want to give Revelation 13:13 a read, where it says there will be a "great sign" where "fire comes down from the heaven on earth in the sight of men". Seems to me that's a pretty accurate description of the way a thermo nuclear attack would be seen by the world. Whereas a "solar flare" such as you've described would be an "invisible" radiation event. It would definitely effect crops, injure people and disrupt communications worldwide, but it would be an unseen force, unlike the spectacle of a nuclear missile attack.

Post-Trib Only Nuclear Apocalypse ?!

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And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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