What do Protestants believe about believers who do immoral things?

Although I am far from an authority figure to represent "mainstream Protestantism", I can tell you that the unrepentant murderer who happened to affirm the truth of the Bible will not be saved. The Bible is littered with verses where we are called to repentance, in the Old Testament and the New Testament. Here's a few references to examine. Feel free to read them in context. It's not an exhaustive list, but my point is, repentance is certainly a requirement for salvation from the consequences of our sins.

Old Testament
2 Chronicles 7:14, Ezekiel 18:21-23, Ezekiel 33:14-16, Proverbs 28:13, Isaiah 44:22, Jeremiah 18:8

New Testament
Luke 13:3, Acts 3:19, Acts 17:30, James 4:8-10, 2 Peter 3:9. 1 John 1:9, Revelation 2:5, Revelation 3:19

There's two different types of belief: there is mental acknowledgement, which is spoken of in James 2. The other type is where we get the word "faith", that is, to believe to the point in trusting. The difference is, one is merely mental. The other requires action. The latter includes repentance as part of that trust that is placed in Jesus. Through that, God helps us to become more like Him.

Does that help?

directory said:

If faith is the only condition for salvation, then would an unrepentant murderer who happened to affirm the truth of the Bible be saved?

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No, because repentance (i.e. a new attitude toward one's sinful nature) is the beginning point of faith.

I've heard one Protestant say that belief simply "inoculates" one against bad works– that is, the spiritual influence of Christ causes one to behave well, and as such there's no such thing as an unrepentant murderer who believes. Is that the mainstream Protestant response to my question, or is there something else?

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Not specifically. As far as Protestants are concerned, you'll probably find a range of answers, but typically repentance needs to accompany a profession of faith.

directory said:

If faith is the only condition for salvation, then would an unrepentant murderer who happened to affirm the truth of the Bible be saved? I've heard one Protestant say that belief simply "inoculates" one against bad works– that is, the spiritual influence of Christ causes one to behave well, and as such there's no such thing as an unrepentant murderer who believes. Is that the mainstream Protestant response to my question, or is there something else?

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There really isn't such a thing as "what Protestants believe" because, in a sense, there is no such thing as "Protestantism". Protestantism is a very large umbrella term that describes just about every church, tradition, and denomination that either came out of the Reformation directly, or indirectly. It covers everything from Lutheranism to non-denominational "bible churches". And there can be as much or, in fact, much more difference between different Protestant groups from each other than with Catholicism. As an example of that, Lutherans have far more in common with Roman Catholicism than it does with, say, Pentecostals or Baptists.

Because of this, there really can't be a single "Protestant" answer.

What I can do is offer a Lutheran approach to the question.

First of all, "faith" is not "believing certain things" or "subscribing to certain theological or biblical propositions", it is trust, specifically it is trust in Jesus Christ and the grace of God. "Affirming the truth of the Bible" isn't faith, trusting that Jesus Christ has, indeed, died for us and that in Him we have hope of eternal life and salvation is faith. Saving faith looks upon Christ and His Gospel. Secondly, such faith is by definition extra nos, that is, "from outside ourselves"; it is not a natural faith that arises from within human nature or the will, but is given supernaturally apart from ourselves from God, it is a gift.

While works have no justifying power, because all human works are tainted by our sin and thus we fail to be obedient to the just will and law of God; faith does more than just remain stagnant, it presses us toward good works. The one without faith cannot repent, and repentance is intrinsic to the Christian life of faith. Un-repentance is, fundamentally, faithlessness. Because in faith we recognize our sinfulness, and in faith repent, and in faith trust upon the saving promises of God in the Gospel.

From Martin Luther's preface to St. Paul's letter to the Romans:

"Faith is not that human illusion and dream that some people think it is. When they hear and talk a lot about faith and yet see that no moral improvement and no good works result from it, they fall into error and say, "Faith is not enough. You must do works if you want to be virtuous and get to heaven." The result is that, when they hear the Gospel, they stumble and make for themselves with their own powers a concept in their hearts which says, "I believe." This concept they hold to be true faith. But since it is a human fabrication and thought and not an experience of the heart, it accomplishes nothing, and there follows no improvement.

Faith is a work of God in us, which changes us and brings us to birth anew from God (cf. John 1). It kills the old Adam, makes us completely different people in heart, mind, senses, and all our powers, and brings the Holy Spirit with it. What a living, creative, active powerful thing is faith! It is impossible that faith ever stop doing good. Faith doesn't ask whether good works are to be done, but, before it is asked, it has done them. It is always active. Whoever doesn't do such works is without faith; he gropes and searches about him for faith and good works but doesn't know what faith or good works are. Even so, he chatters on with a great many words about faith and good works.

Faith is a living, unshakeable confidence in God's grace; it is so certain, that someone would die a thousand times for it. This kind of trust in and knowledge of God's grace makes a person joyful, confident, and happy with regard to God and all creatures. This is what the Holy Spirit does by faith. Through faith, a person will do good to everyone without coercion, willingly and happily; he will serve everyone, suffer everything for the love and praise of God, who has shown him such grace. It is as impossible to separate works from faith as burning and shining from fire. Therefore be on guard against your own false ideas and against the chatterers who think they are clever enough to make judgements about faith and good works but who are in reality the biggest fools. Ask God to work faith in you; otherwise you will remain eternally without faith, no matter what you try to do or fabricate."

This should also be tempered, it is not the good works which spring from faith which are justifying, but the work of God which works faith in us, through which we are justified.

And so we can also consider one of Luther's more (theologically speaking) controversial statements, from a personal letter to Philip Melancthon:

"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God's glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner."

These things get us to the heart of Lutheran thinking: the dichotomy between Law and Gospel; that the Law commands what we must do, and that we never do it, but from it stand condemned as sinners and therefore find in ourselves no power or ability to stand justified before God out of obedience to His just and righteous commands. That the Gospel is the power of God to save all who believe, and that Christ having died for the sins of the whole world has saved and justified the whole world, and having been raised from the dead delivers the whole world from sin and death to life--and by the preaching of this Gospel and the administration of the Sacraments which are the Means of God's grace applies to us individually the very righteousness of Christ, making us the just ones of God in spite of ourselves.

So there is always mercy, unceasing and unfathomable mercy that covers all our sins, as the Apostle has written, "Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more." and still, "Since grace abounds, should we go on sinning? Heaven forbid it!"

And so we must always recognize the two ways these things work: the Law and the Gospel. Always confessing our sins, dying daily in repentance, because we do not love God as we should, we do not love our neighbor as we ought; and always hoping, trusting, believing God's good promise to us, that Christ has died and been raised up, and we can remember our Baptism whereby we were born again and made children of God and heirs with Christ, we can come forward to receive the very body and blood of Christ broken and shed for us and the forgiveness of our sins in and under the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper. That God is freely and wonderfully pouring out grace upon grace upon grace, so that we can say that, "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" not because of ourselves, by which we are condemned under the Law, but because of Christ in whom and by whom we are freely justified. And from this flows faith, hope, love and all Christian virtues, so that we might do good works, for we have been "created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life."

-CryptoLutheran

directory said:

If faith is the only condition for salvation, then would an unrepentant murderer who happened to affirm the truth of the Bible be saved? I've heard one Protestant say that belief simply "inoculates" one against bad works– that is, the spiritual influence of Christ causes one to behave well, and as such there's no such thing as an unrepentant murderer who believes. Is that the mainstream Protestant response to my question, or is there something else?

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They believe the same as Gods Word believes on the topic of immorality : Christ forgave us of our sins so we should gently approach the error of their ways in hopes they will get back in step with God and his right ways of living. This is why accountability partners are so vital.. so we sharpen one another.

A balance is needed. Sometimes people push justification by faith to the point where it seems like what we do doesn’t matter.

Faith means we’re followers of Christ. Justification by faith means that God’s commitment to us is unchanging. When we sin he deals with us as disobedient children, but still as children. So the two extremes to avoid are:

* when we sin we stop being his children
* sin doesn’t matter

God deals with sinners as disobedient children, but doesn’t eject them from the family.

Is it possible to run away from the family permanently? Christians disagree on that. But if so, it’s like apostasy: a permanent rejection of being followers of Christ. It’s not something that happens every time we sin.

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Are there sins that indicate that we can’t possibly be God’s children? Probably. Certainly Jesus warns of judgement based upon our actions. But attempts to use people’s sins to judge them as not being Christians are dangerous. We’re told not to judge. And it’s particularly dangerous to judge ourselves, because it tempts us to look to ourselves. The right attitude for a Christian is to trust God, and what Christ has done.

So yes, in the final judgement God will see people who didn’t care about him or anyone else and are his enemies. But we don’t know what’s going on in people’s lives, and what is going to go on with them in the future. So that kind of judgement is restricted to God. At the moment, we can say that anyone who trust in God (has faith) is part of his people.

What's important when dealing with the concept of "eternal security" is the endgame. What I mean is this: Peter denied Jesus three times. After Jesus died and rose again, he reached out to Peter and reinstated him as a disciple. If Peter had died in the interim time, would he have gone to Hell? Who knows? But he didn't die until after he came back. And that's what matters. The same I suppose would be true for the murderer - though the murderer basically denies the faith by committing the crime of murder.

hedrick said:

A balance is needed. Sometimes people push justification by faith to the point where it seems like what we do doesn’t matter.

Faith means we’re followers of Christ. Justification by faith means that God’s commitment to us is unchanging. When we sin he deals with us as disobedient children, but still as children.

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That is not what Justification means. Justification means that our sins are washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ. That He has justified us by giving us His righteous perfection. On Judgement Day it will be Christ who stands in our place, His justification stands in for us.

Where are you getting these definitions from?

hedrick said:

When we sin he deals with us as disobedient children, but still as children. So the two extremes to avoid are:

* when we sin we stop being his children
* sin doesn’t matter

God deals with sinners as disobedient children, but doesn’t eject them from the family.

Click to expand...

When we sin, the Word does not say that God deals with us like disobedient children.

What the Word says is that God is faithful and just and when we come to Him with our sins, He forgives them and casts them as far as the east is from the west. Most of what we deal with is the ramifications of our own sin that trickles down as conseqences. Sin that is practiced is much harder to overcome. Sin when giving into oneself causes some separation from God because we are either being carnal or spiritual in each moment, and many times after sin we have a larger issue with carnality and fixing our mistakes as well as not repeating them in the future.

God does not punish us because of our sin. Sinning brings with it negative issues.

ToBeLoved said:

That is not what Justification means. Justification means that our sins are washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ. That He has justified us by giving us His righteous perfection. On Judgement Day it will be Christ who stands in our place, His justification stands in for us.

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Actually, justification is a forensic, one-time declaration by God by which He imputes to those in Christ, the righteousness of another, Our Lord. Ours is an alien righteousness, that is on the account of Another. Justification is not an infusion (contrary to Roman Catholicism) of righteousness. It is from our walk of faith, sanctification, that we are being made righteous, by God, for we are His workmanship.

The summary of Scripture's teachings on justification in Chapter 11 of the WCF is helpful:

Chapter 11. Of Justification

1. Those whom God effectually calleth, He also freely justifieth: (Rom. 8:30, Rom. 3:24) not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for any thing wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, (Rom. 4:5-8, 2 Cor. 5:19,21, Rom. 3:22,24-25,27-28, Tit. 3:5,7, Eph. 1:7, Jer. 23:6, 1 Cor. 1:30-31, Rom. 5:17-19) they receiving and resting on Him and His righteousness by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God. (Acts 10:44, Gal. 2:16, Phil. 3:9, Acts 13:38-39, Eph. 2:7-8)

2. Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification: (John 1:12, Rom. 3:28, Rom. 5:1) yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love. (James 2:17, 22, 26, Gal. 5:6)

3. Christ, by His obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are thus justified, and did make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to His Father’s justice in their behalf. (Rom. 5:8-10, 19, 1 Tim. 2:5-6, Heb. 10:10, 14, Dan. 9:24, 26, Isa. 53:4-6, 10-12) Yet, in as much as He was given by the Father for them; (Rom. 8:32) and His obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead; (2 Cor. 5:21, Matt. 3:17, Eph. 5:2) and both, freely, not for any thing in them; their justification is only of free grace; (Rom. 3:24, Eph. 1:7) that both the exact justice, and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners. (Rom. 3:26, Eph. 2:7)

4. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect, (Gal. 3:8, 1 Pet. 1:2, 19-20, Rom. 8:30) and Christ did, in the fulness of time, die for their sins, and rise for their justification: (Gal. 4:4, 1 Tim. 2:6, Rom. 4:25) nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them. (Col. 1:21-22, Gal. 2:16, Tit. 3:4-7)

5. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified; (Matt. 6:12, 1 John 1:7, 9, 1 John 2:1-2) and, although they can never fall from the state of justification, (Luke 22:32, John 10:28, Heb. 10:14) yet they may, by their sins, fall under God’s fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of His countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance. (Ps. 89:31-33,Ps. 51:7-12, Ps. 32:5, Matt. 26:75, 1 Cor. 11:30, 32, Luke 1:20)

6. The justification of believers under the old testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament. (Gal. 3:9, 13-14, Rom. 4:22-24, Heb. 13:8)

AMR said:

Actually, justification is a forensic, one-time declaration by God by which He imputes to those in Christ, the righteousness of another, Our Lord. Ours is an alien righteousness, that is on the account of Another. Justification is not an infusion (contrary to Roman Catholicism) of righteousness. It is from our walk of faith, sanctification, that we are being made righteous, by God, for we are His workmanship.

The summary of Scripture's teachings on justification in Chapter 11 of the WCF is helpful:

Chapter 11. Of Justification

1. Those whom God effectually calleth, He also freely justifieth: (Rom. 8:30, Rom. 3:24) not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for any thing wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them, (Rom. 4:5-8, 2 Cor. 5:19,21, Rom. 3:22,24-25,27-28, Tit. 3:5,7, Eph. 1:7, Jer. 23:6, 1 Cor. 1:30-31, Rom. 5:17-19) they receiving and resting on Him and His righteousness by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God. (Acts 10:44, Gal. 2:16, Phil. 3:9, Acts 13:38-39, Eph. 2:7-8)

2. Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification: (John 1:12, Rom. 3:28, Rom. 5:1) yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love. (James 2:17, 22, 26, Gal. 5:6)

3. Christ, by His obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are thus justified, and did make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to His Father’s justice in their behalf. (Rom. 5:8-10, 19, 1 Tim. 2:5-6, Heb. 10:10, 14, Dan. 9:24, 26, Isa. 53:4-6, 10-12) Yet, in as much as He was given by the Father for them; (Rom. 8:32) and His obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead; (2 Cor. 5:21, Matt. 3:17, Eph. 5:2) and both, freely, not for any thing in them; their justification is only of free grace; (Rom. 3:24, Eph. 1:7) that both the exact justice, and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners. (Rom. 3:26, Eph. 2:7)

4. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect, (Gal. 3:8, 1 Pet. 1:2, 19-20, Rom. 8:30) and Christ did, in the fulness of time, die for their sins, and rise for their justification: (Gal. 4:4, 1 Tim. 2:6, Rom. 4:25) nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them. (Col. 1:21-22, Gal. 2:16, Tit. 3:4-7)

5. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified; (Matt. 6:12, 1 John 1:7, 9, 1 John 2:1-2) and, although they can never fall from the state of justification, (Luke 22:32, John 10:28, Heb. 10:14) yet they may, by their sins, fall under God’s fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of His countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance. (Ps. 89:31-33,Ps. 51:7-12, Ps. 32:5, Matt. 26:75, 1 Cor. 11:30, 32, Luke 1:20)

6. The justification of believers under the old testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament. (Gal. 3:9, 13-14, Rom. 4:22-24, Heb. 13:8)

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That is pretty much what I said in one sentence. What are you specifically disagreeing with?

directory said:

If faith is the only condition for salvation, then would an unrepentant murderer who happened to affirm the truth of the Bible be saved? I've heard one Protestant say that belief simply "inoculates" one against bad works– that is, the spiritual influence of Christ causes one to behave well, and as such there's no such thing as an unrepentant murderer who believes. Is that the mainstream Protestant response to my question, or is there something else?

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That may be something that only God will know. However, we can try to clarify the situation; for one, what do you mean by "affirm"--is it to acknowledge that what is written in the Bible is true? If that is the case, then the unrepentant murderer will not be saved. Satan acknowledges Jesus to be God yet he is not saved.

Now if affirming means that he does cast his sins upon Jesus, then there is a question that we probably won't be able to determine. It sure appears that he would not be saved because of his unrepentance. It just seems hard to believe that if he truly does believe that Christ atoned for his sins before God that he would harden his heart against God's mercy and cling to this final sin, to assert his own righteousness above that of Christ's. But you never know. If however that is the case, then we would look at this man as never a true believer, as Christ teaches in the parable of the sower. The seed in this man's heart then, though it may have taken root at first, apparently has been choked by the cares and trials of the world, or it didn't take root too deeply.

directory said:

I've heard one Protestant say that belief simply "inoculates" one against bad works– that is, the spiritual influence of Christ causes one to behave well, and as such there's no such thing as an unrepentant murderer who believes.

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Well, not sure I would say it that way. It changes them though--you can't experience even a fraction of the holiness of God without it changing you. It changes them in a variety of ways, some people a lot some people only a little. But I will say it is impossible to be saved and not be changed. Whoever says they're now converted and continues on in their life with the same mindset, same actions as when they were unregenerate is, sorry to say, an outright liar (one such example of this that comes to mind is "easy-believism"--those who think that as long as they say they believe in God, they can continue in all the same sins they indulged in as before since, what does it matter now? Jesus covered all our sins when he died on the cross) . Or, they may think they're saved, but they're operating under a delusion. Of course no one is going to be able to prove that--only God knows what is really in the heart of man.

directory said:

If faith is the only condition for salvation, then would an unrepentant murderer who happened to affirm the truth of the Bible be saved?

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Not likely.

I've heard one Protestant say that belief simply "inoculates" one against bad works– that is, the spiritual influence of Christ causes one to behave well, and as such there's no such thing as an unrepentant murderer who believes. Is that the mainstream Protestant response to my question, or is there something else?

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I wouldn't put it that way, but it's in the ball park. Protestants believe that we cannot save ourselves or earn our salvation by building up a record of good deeds like earning merit badges with God. But neither do we believe that claiming to have Faith will do it.

Salvation comes through Faith in Christ as one's Lord and Savior, and if one has that Faith, it's a commitment. It is inconceivable, therefore, that a person who truly does have Faith will live like a reprobate. He certainly wouldn't be unrepentant (as in the example you gave).