How do Angels and Demons operate?

An ancient hymn would say smooth and correctly.

I don't think I've yet had a chance to welcome you to the forums, Dece, and to Traditional Theology!

dece870717 said:

This is a question that I can't really find an answer to, maybe because it's something we can't really know. I know it's talked about a lot, like when someone says forces of darkness are causing this or that and all these very broad statements. Can someone just start listing a few things that from the Bible we "know" they can do? What do they actually do?

If an event was to be blamed on a demon, what exactly did he do? Poltergeist stuff I'm assuming is possible, but do they affect people's emotions and cause things to happen that way? I heard angels are sometimes sent to protect believers, well at least that is what i've heard from in missionary stories and such.

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They operate to the extent and within the limitations that God places on them.

If demons could do whatever they wished, they would torture and then kill all humans, at such a time and in such a way to prevent them from turning to God at all. They hate us. Their actions are limited by God.

Angels do what God commands them to do. They are sent by Him, messengers, on specific errands. Some of them protect Christians individually (guardian angels). Their actions are limited to following God's commands.

We can see in the book of Job that they are capable of influencing the world in various ways, causing things to happen. But again, only as far as God allows. God specifically tells satan what he may not do - for example, kill Job. And his sons and daughters had already been killed, so yes, that is a possibility. In other places in the OT, we see angels involved in death. In the NT, we see angels releasing prisoners. They can interact with the physical world, with humans and animals, and be either seen or unseen. But again, only so far as God either allows (the enemy) or commands (holy angels).

We don't often know the source of various things that happen though. Saying that a fire, or flood, or car crash, or other even was caused by demons is just speculation, and probably isn't wise as it may confuse people. I am more inclined to believe miraculous interventions that save and protect people may likely be angels, but in some instances, those can be random chance or unknown natural occurrences too. We just very often don't know.

~Anastasia~ said:

I don't think I've yet had a chance to welcome you to the forums, Dece, and to Traditional Theology!



They operate to the extent and within the limitations that God places on them.

If demons could do whatever they wished, they would torture and then kill all humans, at such a time and in such a way to prevent them from turning to God at all. They hate us. Their actions are limited by God.

Angels do what God commands them to do. They are sent by Him, messengers, on specific errands. Some of them protect Christians individually (guardian angels). Their actions are limited to following God's commands.

We can see in the book of Job that they are capable of influencing the world in various ways, causing things to happen. But again, only as far as God allows. God specifically tells satan what he may not do - for example, kill Job. And his sons and daughters had already been killed, so yes, that is a possibility. In other places in the OT, we see angels involved in death. In the NT, we see angels releasing prisoners. They can interact with the physical world, with humans and animals, and be either seen or unseen. But again, only so far as God either allows (the enemy) or commands (holy angels).

We don't often know the source of various things that happen though. Saying that a fire, or flood, or car crash, or other even was caused by demons is just speculation, and probably isn't wise as it may confuse people. I am more inclined to believe miraculous interventions that save and protect people may likely be angels, but in some instances, those can be random chance or unknown natural occurrences too. We just very often don't know.

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Chance is a myth. Everything happens for a reason. Liked your post.

popsthebuilder said:

Chance is a myth. Everything happens for a reason. Liked your post.

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Indeed. I should have stated that differently. One thing I try to keep in mind is that if we allow Him to, and trust in God, everything that comes to us can be used to know Him better. In which case - bingo - no chance!

I was looking for a way to say that not every event that happens, good or bad, comes about as a result of angelic or demonic activity.

Thank you for pointing that out.

~Anastasia~ said:

Indeed. I should have stated that differently. One thing I try to keep in mind is that if we allow Him to, and trust in God, everything that comes to us can be used to know Him better. In which case - bingo - no chance!

I was looking for a way to say that not every event that happens, good or bad, comes about as a result of angelic or demonic activity.

Thank you for pointing that out.

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Thanks for the read.

popsthebuilder said:

Thanks for the read.

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You are most welcome, and thank you.

I don't recommend reading fiction very often where theology is concerned, but I truly believe that a book called, The Screwtape Letters (it's a collection of short stories written by C. S. Lewis), may be just the thing to help you better understand the unseen world that surrounds us (well, the dark side anyway ). It certainly helped me

The book is written about the Christian faith, but it's written from the demons' point of view! Throughout the narrative, Lewis helps us see different ways that they choose to operate in their attempts to destroy the works of God. He also helps us understand how they tempt and deceive us and do their best to wreak havoc in the lives of God's children. So when you see, for instance, the word "Enemy" in this book, that word is referring to God, not Satan (because God is the demons' "Enemy", of course ).

Anyway, it is certainly an enjoyable read, and I believe it can help you become more aware of and be better able to recognize demonic attacks when they're happening to you.

You can buy it in book form, on Kindle, or read it for free online here. I believe the various stories were originally read on the radio by Lewis himself, just FYI.

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - whoops, that was just the study guide at the links above. Here's one of the online sites to read the book itself. Click here. BTW, whichever copy of the book you end up with, it's important to read the preface of this particular book before you begin reading the book itself.

Angels (their name means “messengers”) are one of the two sorts of personal beings that God created, humankind being the other. There are many of them (Matt. 26:53; Rev. 5:11). They are intelligent moral agents, not embodied or ordinarily visible, although they are able to show themselves to humans in what appears as a physical form (Gen. 18:2–19:22; John 20:10–14; Acts 12:7–10). They do not marry, and they are not subject to death (Matt. 22:30; Luke 20:35–36). They can move from one point in space to another, and many of them can congregate in a tiny area (Luke 8:30, where the reference is to fallen angels).

Like human beings, the angels were originally set under probation, and some of them fell into sin. The many who passed the test are now evidently confirmed in a state of holiness and immortal glory. Heaven is their headquarters (Matt. 18:10; 22:30; Rev. 5:11), where they constantly worship God (Pss. 103:20–21; 148:2) and whence they move out to render service to Christians at God’s bidding (Heb. 1:14). These are the “holy” and “elect” angels (Matt. 25:31; Mark 8:38; Luke 9:26; Acts 10:22; 1 Tim. 5:21; Rev. 14:10), to whom God’s work of grace through Christ is currently demonstrating more of the divine wisdom and glory than they knew before (Eph. 3:10; 1 Pet. 1:12).

Holy angels guard believers (Pss. 34:7; 91:11), little ones in particular (Matt. 18:10), and constantly observe what goes on in the church (1 Cor. 11:10). It is implied that they are more knowledgeable about divine things than humans are (Mark 13:32), and that they have a special ministry to believers at the time of their death (Luke 16:22), but we know no details about any of this. Suffice it to pinpoint the relevance of angels by saying that if at any time we stand in need of their ministry, we shall receive it; and that as the world watches Christians in hope of seeing them tumble, so do good angels watch Christians in hope of seeing grace triumph in their lives.

The mysterious “angel of the LORD” or “angel of God,” who appears often in the early Old Testament story and is sometimes identified with the God from whom he is at other times distinguished (Gen. 16:7–13; 18:1–33; 22:11–18; 24:7, 40; 31:11–13; 32:24–30; 48:15–16; Exod. 3:2–6; 14:19; 23:20–23; 32:34–33:5; Num. 22:22–35; Josh. 5:13–15; Judg. 2:1–5; 6:11–23; 9:13–23), is in some sense God acting as his own messenger, and is commonly seen as a preincarnate appearance of God the Son.

Angelic activity was prominent at the great turning points in the divine plan of salvation (the days of the patriarchs, the time of the Exodus and giving of the law, the period of the Exile and restoration, and the birth, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ), and it will be prominent again when Christ returns (Matt. 25:31; Mark 8:38). Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs. Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.



“Demon,” or “devil” as earlier translations rendered the words, is the Greek daimon and daimonion, the regular terms in the Gospels for the spiritual beings, corrupt and hostile to both God and man, whom Jesus exorcised from their victims in large numbers during his earthly ministry. The demons were fallen angels, deathless creatures serving Satan (Jesus equated Beelzebub, their reputed prince, with Satan: Matt. 12:24–29). Having joined Satan’s rebellion, they were cast out of heaven to await final judgment (2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6). Their minds are permanently set to oppose God, goodness, truth, the kingdom of Christ, and the welfare of human beings, and they have real if limited power and freedom of movement, though in Calvin’s picturesque phrase they drag their chains wherever they go and can never hope to overcome God.

The level and intensity of demonic manifestations in people during Christ’s ministry was unique, having no parallel in Old Testament times or since; it was doubtless part of Satan’s desperate battle for his kingdom against Christ’s attack on it (Matt. 12:29). Demons were revealed as having knowledge and strength (Mark 1:24; 9:17–27). They inflicted, or at least exploited, physical and mental maladies (Mark 5:1–15; 9:17–18; Luke 11:14). They recognized and feared Christ, to whose authority they were subject (Mark 1:25; 3:11–12; 9:25), though by his own confession it was only through effort in prayer that he was able to expel them (Mark 9:29).

Christ authorized and equipped the Twelve and the seventy to exorcise in his name (i.e., by his power—Luke 9:1; 10:17), and the ministry of exorcism continues still as an occasional pastoral necessity. The sixteenth-century Lutheran church abolished exorcism, believing that Christ’s victory over Satan had suppressed demonic invasion forever, but this was premature.

Satan’s army of demons uses subtler strategies also, namely, deception and discouragement in many forms. Opposing these is the essence of spiritual warfare (Eph. 6:10–18). Though demons can give trouble of many kinds to regenerate persons in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, they cannot finally thwart God’s purpose of saving his elect any more than they can finally avoid their own eternal torment. As the devil is God’s devil (that is Luther’s phrase), so the demons are God’s demons, defeated enemies (Col. 2:15) whose limited power is prolonged only for the advancement of God’s glory as his people contend with them. Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs. Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.

Satan, leader of the fallen angels, comes like them into full view only in the New Testament. His name means “adversary” (opponent of God and his people), and the Old Testament introduces him as such (1 Chron. 21:1; Job 1–2; Zech. 3:1–2). The New Testament gives him revealing titles: “devil” (diabolos) means accuser (i.e., of God’s people: Rev. 12:9–10); “Apollyon” (Rev. 9:11) means destroyer; “the tempter” (Matt. 4:3; 1 Thess. 3:5) and “the evil one” (1 John 5:18–19) mean what they say; “prince” and “god of this world” point to Satan as presiding over mankind’s anti-God life-styles (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; 2 Cor. 4:4; cf. Eph. 2:2; 1 John 5:19; Rev. 12:9). Jesus said that Satan was always a murderer and is the father of lies—that is, he is both the original liar and the sponsor of all subsequent falsehood and deceits (John 8:44). Finally, he is identified as the serpent who fooled Eve in Eden (Rev. 12:9; 20:2). The picture is one of unimaginable meanness, malice, fury, and cruelty directed against God, against God’s truth, and against those to whom God has extended his saving love.

Satan’s deceptive cunning is highlighted by Paul’s statement that he becomes an angel of light, disguising evil as good (2 Cor. 11:14). His destructive ferocity comes out in the description of him as a roaring, devouring lion (1 Pet. 5:8) and as a dragon (Rev. 12:9). As he was Christ’s sworn foe (Matt. 4:1–11; 16:23; Luke 4:13; John 14:30; cf. Luke 22:3, 53), so now he is the Christian’s, always probing for weaknesses, misdirecting strengths, and undermining faith, hope, and character (Luke 22:32; 2 Cor. 2:11; 11:3–15; Eph. 6:16). He should be taken seriously, for malice and cunning make him fearsome; yet not so seriously as to provoke abject terror of him, for he is a beaten enemy. Satan is stronger than we are, but Christ has triumphed over Satan (Matt. 12:29), and Christians will triumph over him too if they resist him with the resources that Christ supplies (Eph. 6:10–13; James 4:7; 1 Pet. 5:9–10). “The one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world” (1 John 4:4).

Acknowledging Satan’s reality, taking his opposition seriously, noting his strategy (anything, provided it be not biblical Christianity), and reckoning on always being at war with him—this is not a lapse into a dualistic concept of two gods, one good, one evil, fighting it out. Satan is a creature, superhuman but not divine; he has much knowledge and power, but he is neither omniscient nor omnipotent; he can move around in ways that humans cannot, but he is not omnipresent; and he is an already defeated rebel, having no more power than God allows him and being destined for the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10).
Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs. Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.

dece870717 said:

This is a question that I can't really find an answer to, maybe because it's something we can't really know. I know it's talked about a lot, like when someone says forces of darkness are causing this or that and all these very broad statements. Can someone just start listing a few things that from the Bible we "know" they can do? What do they actually do?

If an event was to be blamed on a demon, what exactly did he do? Poltergeist stuff I'm assuming is possible, but do they affect people's emotions and cause things to happen that way? I heard angels are sometimes sent to protect believers, well at least that is what i've heard from in missionary stories and such.

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Angels are messengers of God, they will bring messages from God, words of encouragement like the ones who came to visit God's people in the Bible to encourage them. Angles even ministered to Jesus after He went through the temptation. Angels also guard or protect us as in guardian angels. They can also bring blessings from God like messengers. They worship God and are loyal to God. They can help us resist temptation and help fight spiritual battles for us.

Devils and demons were angels too, but they are fallen angels. They rebelled against God and they do things to hurt and discourage people and tempt them. They are loyal to the devil and not God. They can do the same thing that good angels can do since they are of the same species but they do it for bad and for the devil not for God.

dece870717 said:

When someone says demons discourage people and tempt them, that is the type of broad/generic thing that I always hear that doesn't really answer anything. How do they discourage people and tempt them? What are they doing exactly to bring about such a thing? This makes me think they have the ability to influence peoples emotions without possessing them and of course by possessing them and through that influence on anothers emotions they can help cause a certain outcome that can cause a temptation.

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It depends on the individual somewhat, but for almost everyone ... if one pays attention to every thought that comes through their mind (what is the commonly accepted number - tens of thousands of thoughts a day?) ... I would say that for most of us, there are three sources for those thoughts. The vast majority generally come from a person's own intellect. But there is the potential for those thoughts to come from outside of themselves. The source can be holy (perhaps the Holy Spirit Himself, or holy angels - messengers from God) or the source can be demonic.

We may say something like "words whispered in one's ear" but I don't think it happens at all like that. I can't explain the exact mechanisms by which spirit beings can put thoughts in one's mind. But it happens, and with sharp enough discernment, I believe it is possible to know the source as well - though I think one should never be so confident in one's own ability as to think they must always be right about what they discern the source to be. I think it's possible for everyone to be fooled sometimes.

I don't believe "possession" is necessary for our thoughts to be influenced - they are simply suggestions that we unwittingly accept. Most often it happens because a thought is given from an outside source, and the person thinks it is their own thought.

If you get up in the morning, and your attention is drawn to everything your spouse has done wrong - they used all the toilet paper AGAIN without replacing it, they ate the last breakfast pocket and left you nothing, they left the garage light on, and you remember that just before they left, they said something nasty to you and didn't kiss you goodbye.

Your attention is drawn to these things, and the thoughts come - "How many times have I told them to replace the toilet paper? Why am I the only person in the house who seems to know how the spindle works or where the new rolls are? Not only that, but they don't even buy new ones when we're out, I have to do that too. If it wasn't for me, we'd all be in a terrible mess. And how inconsiderate! There's nothing for me to eat! They ate most of them anyway - I only got one from the box. I can't believe, loving spouse, HA! They don't care if I starve to death or not! Something as simple as turning off a light switch - I get no respect at all around here. I don't know why I even go to work every day to earn money when they just leave lights on and burn through it. I should quit my job and let THEM pay all the bills! They aren't worth my time anyway - what was that they had the nerve to complain to me about before they left? Didn't even kiss me goodbye, not that I think I even want them to anymore. I'm getting sick of this marriage, it's always the same mess!"

Not only that, but what you don't know is that THEIR thoughts were directed as well, causing them to be upset and say something sharp and leave without kissing you. On their way to get another roll of toilet paper, they were distracted by some minor "emergency" suggested to their thoughts, and actually did forget their errand. By the time they got to breakfast, they had had the same kind of running thoughts and were made at you, and figured you could eat toast anyway, since that's what you do most mornings. And when they went in the garage, they were reminded of some little thing that they needed the light to search out, but of course that little sidetrack made them late, and they ended up rushing off without remembering to turn the light off.

Small things, but now your day is ruined in the space of 15 minutes, and your thoughts - if they continued this way over a long period of time - would seriously erode the marriage.

That's the kind of thing I mean. In some cases it may sound ridiculous, but that's because I was trying to come up with examples. I've actually experienced this sort of thing myself, but I don't want to use my own examples. The thoughts went on for two months, and they were constant, all day long. I was in total despair. It hit me at a time in my life when everything was falling apart already, and I wasn't on guard. I couldn't believe how bad things had become. And one day, standing in my kitchen, God had mercy on me and I suddenly saw with perfect clarity the simple truth ... the thoughts that occupied my mind nearly all my waking hours WERE NOT EVEN MY OWN! That realization was a revolution. I knew then that it wasn't "like me" to be so critical. And they absolutely disappeared from that hour, and my life changed. Before that moment, I was headed for serious trouble.

But no possession was necessary. Just simply accepting an onslaught of thoughts as my own, failing to recognize the source, and responding to them emotionally as if they were true, when they were nearly all lies.

I think such a dramatic experience might not be common (I don't know) ... but I now know it can happen. And this is one way at least that it can.

dece870717 said:

When someone says demons discourage people and tempt them, that is the type of broad/generic thing that I always hear that doesn't really answer anything. How do they discourage people and tempt them? What are they doing exactly to bring about such a thing?

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I'm telling you, read The Screwtape Letters and I think you'll have the answers you're looking for. It is fiction, but it is written in such a way that it becomes frighteningly real (because you will immediately perceive how they have already been working in your life since you became a Christian). It's hard to explain, but you'll understand what I'm saying once you read it

~Anastasia~ said:

It depends on the individual somewhat, but for almost everyone ... if one pays attention to every thought that comes through their mind (what is the commonly accepted number - tens of thousands of thoughts a day?) ... I would say that for most of us, there are three sources for those thoughts. The vast majority generally come from a person's own intellect. But there is the potential for those thoughts to come from outside of themselves. The source can be holy (perhaps the Holy Spirit Himself, or holy angels - messengers from God) or the source can be demonic.

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Hi Anastasia, I completely agree with this, except that I wouldn't say there is one interior source of our thoughts, there are two for Christians, yes, as we are indwelt by the HS and have been given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:12-16).

~Anastasia~ said:

We may say something like "words whispered in one's ear" but I don't think it happens at all like that. I can't explain the exact mechanisms by which spirit beings can put thoughts in one's mind. But it happens, and with sharp enough discernment, I believe it is possible to know the source as well - though I think one should never be so confident in one's own ability as to think they must always be right about what they discern the source to be. I think it's possible for everyone to be fooled sometimes. I don't believe "possession" is necessary for our thoughts to be influenced - they are simply suggestions that we unwittingly accept. Most often it happens because a thought is given from an outside source, and the person thinks it is their own thought.

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I agree with this too, but would like to add that knowing what the Bible says extremely well, makes the Spirit's job of helping us discern what is from Him and what is not from Him, a far easier task (this, BTW, is my plug for a systematic memorization of key Bible verses and passages as a necessity for all who call themselves "Christian" ).

~Anastasia~ said:

If you get up in the morning, and your attention is drawn to everything your spouse has done wrong - they used all the toilet paper AGAIN without replacing it, they ate the last breakfast pocket and left you nothing, they left the garage light on, and you remember that just before they left, they said something nasty to you and didn't kiss you goodbye.

Your attention is drawn to these things, and the thoughts come - "How many times have I told them to replace the toilet paper? Why am I the only person in the house who seems to know how the spindle works or where the new rolls are? Not only that, but they don't even buy new ones when we're out, I have to do that too. If it wasn't for me, we'd all be in a terrible mess. And how inconsiderate! There's nothing for me to eat! They ate most of them anyway - I only got one from the box. I can't believe, loving spouse, HA! They don't care if I starve to death or not! Something as simple as turning off a light switch - I get no respect at all around here. I don't know why I even go to work every day to earn money when they just leave lights on and burn through it. I should quit my job and let THEM pay all the bills! They aren't worth my time anyway - what was that they had the nerve to complain to me about before they left? Didn't even kiss me goodbye, not that I think I even want them to anymore. I'm getting sick of this marriage, it's always the same mess!"

Not only that, but what you don't know is that THEIR thoughts were directed as well, causing them to be upset and say something sharp and leave without kissing you. On their way to get another roll of toilet paper, they were distracted by some minor "emergency" suggested to their thoughts, and actually did forget their errand. By the time they got to breakfast, they had had the same kind of running thoughts and were made at you, and figured you could eat toast anyway, since that's what you do most mornings. And when they went in the garage, they were reminded of some little thing that they needed the light to search out, but of course that little sidetrack made them late, and they ended up rushing off without remembering to turn the light off.

Small things, but now your day is ruined in the space of 15 minutes, and your thoughts - if they continued this way over a long period of time - would seriously erode the marriage.

That's the kind of thing I mean. In some cases it may sound ridiculous, but that's because I was trying to come up with examples. I've actually experienced this sort of thing myself, but I don't want to use my own examples. The thoughts went on for two months, and they were constant, all day long. I was in total despair. It hit me at a time in my life when everything was falling apart already, and I wasn't on guard. I couldn't believe how bad things had become. And one day, standing in my kitchen, God had mercy on me and I suddenly saw with perfect clarity the simple truth ... the thoughts that occupied my mind nearly all my waking hours WERE NOT EVEN MY OWN! That realization was a revolution. I knew then that it wasn't "like me" to be so critical. And they absolutely disappeared from that hour, and my life changed. Before that moment, I was headed for serious trouble.

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Yep, I agree, this is certainly some of the ways they work at trying to make life miserable for us. I really don't think they hate us though, I think this is all because we now belong to God, and they unquestionably HATE Him.

I did some work for a crisis pregnancy center here in town a few years back, and one of the ways our director gauged whether or not she was truly having us do what God wanted us to do was by how much resistance she got from Satan!

~Anastasia~ said:

But no possession was necessary. Just simply accepting an onslaught of thoughts as my own, failing to recognize the source, and responding to them emotionally as if they were true, when they were nearly all lies.

I think such a dramatic experience might not be common (I don't know) ... but I now know it can happen. And this is one way at least that it can.

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I don't believe that someone who is indwelt by the HS can be "possessed" by demons, but "oppressed", sure I believe our best defense against Satanic attack can be found in truly/thoroughly knowing what the Bible teaches, and in our faith/trust in God and His great promises to us as His children.

Yours and His,
David

~Anastasia~ said:

Indeed. I should have stated that differently. One thing I try to keep in mind is that if we allow Him to, and trust in God, everything that comes to us can be used to know Him better. In which case - bingo - no chance!

I was looking for a way to say that not every event that happens, good or bad, comes about as a result of angelic or demonic activity.

Thank you for pointing that out.

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Many good and bad things come from free will.

St_Worm2 said:

Hi Anastasia, I completely agree with this, except that I wouldn't say there is one interior source of our thoughts, there are two for Christians, yes, as we are indwelt by the HS and have been given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:12-16).



I agree with this too, but would like to add that knowing what the Bible says extremely well, makes the Spirit's job of helping us discern what is from Him and what is not from Him, a far easier task (this, BTW, is my plug for a systematic memorization of key Bible verses and passages as a necessity for all who call themselves "Christian" ).



Yep, I agree, this is certainly some of the ways they work at trying to make life miserable for us. I really don't think they hate us though, I think this is all because we now belong to God, and they unquestionably HATE Him.

I did some work for a crisis pregnancy center here in town a few years back, and one of the ways our director gauged whether or not she was truly having us do what God wanted us to do was by how much resistance she got from Satan!



I don't believe that someone who is indwelt by the HS can be "possessed" by demons, but "oppressed", sure I believe our best defense against Satanic attack can be found in truly/thoroughly knowing what the Bible teaches, and in our faith/trust in God and His great promises to us as His children.

Yours and His,
David

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I believe that the opposite may be the case. Those who do not have the Holy Spirit already belong to the devil; so the devil and the demons are not going to spend a whole lot of time on them; those of the strongest faith are the devil's and demons greatest threat; therefore, these most faithful Christians are often the target of the devil and the daemons.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

I believe that the opposite may be the case. Those who do not have the Holy Spirit already belong to the devil; so the devil and the demons are not going to spend a whole lot of time on them; those of the strongest faith are the devil's and demons greatest threat; therefore, these most faithful Christians are often the target of the devil and the daemons.

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I absolutely agree, I just don't believe that devils are an "inner" voice of any kind, or that they can read our minds, rather that they, unlike the HS, are only an external influence in the lives of Christians.

St_Worm2 said:

I absolutely agree, I just don't believe that devils are an "inner" voice of any kind, or that they can read our minds, rather that they, unlike the HS, are only an external influence in the lives of Christians.

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I see what you mean now.

If anything I said implied in any way that demons were somehow speaking from INSIDE of us as Christians, I thank you for the opportunity to correct that. I believe the thoughts from demons intrude from outside of ourselves.

St_Worm2 said:

I absolutely agree, I just don't believe that devils are an "inner" voice of any kind, or that they can read our minds, rather that they, unlike the HS, are only an external influence in the lives of Christians.

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Regarding demons, you may very well be correct, but the Holy Spirit IS God, and God is Omniscient.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

Many good and bad things come from free will.

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Oh, absolutely.

Just to clarify - if the question is "where do evil (or good) actions in humanity come from?" then the answer must include the free will of humans to act as they will. We can be evil even without demonic influence.

But the initial question I was responding to (iirc) concerned such things as tornadoes, floods, fires breaking out, etc. My point in what I said was that we need not see a demon hiding behind and responsible for each of these occurrences (and indeed, probably that is very - VERY - seldom the cause, at least by my guess).

Thank you for pointing that out, and the opportunity to clarify.

~Anastasia~ said:

I see what you mean now.

If anything I said implied in any way that demons were somehow speaking from INSIDE of us as Christians, I thank you for the opportunity to correct that. I believe the thoughts from demons intrude from outside of ourselves.

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Oh no, just that the HS was an outside influence, and while He is certainly that, He, PTL, is also a mighty "inside" one as well where we Christians are concerned