The New Testament Sabbath Day

jacobs well · Jan 18, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello Jacob's well.

You stated,
I do not believe what you just wrote JW.

Jacob's well, I need you to pay attention now and read very carefully.

The starting time is not the time when Jesus was buried, it is the time when Jesus died!

Do you understand this point, it is not the burial time, it is the time of the death of Jesus
that we use to start to add the days.

How can I make this point clearer to you JW?

Matthew, Mark, and Luke each record that Jesus died about "the ninth hour".
(Matthew 27:45-50, Mark 15:34-37, Luke 23:44-46).

Jesus died around 3-00 pm in the afternoon. Then Joseph has time to ask Pilate for
the body of Jesus, so that he can prepare the body and bury it, this will take hours.
Joseph has to do all this before sunset, which means Jesus died hours before sunset.

I will not post any more information until you reply.

In Matthew 12:38-40 Jesus said the only sign that He was the Messiah would be the LENGTH OF TIME
He was buried.
He was not saying that the sign of His Messiahship would be the fact of the resurrection or the time of His death on the cross but rather the length of time He would spend entombed.
This is a plain statement from Christ Himself.
So Jesus says your starting time to count is when He is buried.

I rest my case on this.

klutedavid · Jan 19, 2016

Hello Jacobs well.

At times this is an interesting topic.

You are the only one with the fourth day resurrection notion.

Why is that I wonder, does it matter if I am the only one?

A full three day burial, certainly means Jesus rose sometime after the full three day,
three night cycle.

You can't say three full days and three full nights, and then say Jesus rose within that
three day, three night duration. Your not obeying what Jesus said in the text (Matthew 12:40).

Jesus was already risen by the time the 4th day

That does not make any sense JW, you need to speak to an authority on the SDA
theology, then get back to me. Unless we can deal with the problem, the entire seventh
day theology crumbles into dust.

Thanks Jacob.

ihavefoundgod951 · Jan 19, 2016

HebrewVaquero said:
As for Jesus "fulfilling" the Law:
Fulfilling = to teach correctly
Law = Torah = God's Instructions

Meaning:
Jesus taught the Instructions of God correctly.

(Not some crazy idea that since Jesus perfectly obeyed God's Instructions, it abolished God's Instructions to us)

◄ Luke 24:44 ►

And he said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

jacobs well · Jan 19, 2016

Just looking back at some of the proofs of a Sunday observance that has been mentioned needs closer examination.
Acts 20:7-14 has been used in earlier posts and is considered one key reason to justify any observance of Sunday replacing God's Holy 7th day Sabbath.
Remember the days began at Sunset. Following the Sabbath we see a Saturday night meeting, which continued only until
midnight. When it came to eat a meal, Paul began to speak, teaching them. perhaps it was a Q and A session, or a Bible study, no matter Paul continued for several hours, until midnight.
The next morning, at sunrise-Sunday morning- Paul began a 20 mile trek to Assos.
My point is that Paul went to the grueling WORK on that Sunday of walking all those miles. He did not continue speaking on the daylight part of the first day of the week but set out on foot away from his disciples.
There is not one word about abrogating or setting aside God's Holy 7th day Sabbath.
And this all took place some 20 years after the resurrection of Christ.
If Sunday worship was in vogue, Paul and the others would have held their meeting on Sunday morning, instead of using the first work day of the week to go to the arduous task of walking almost 20 miles
This scripture is one of used by the largest church of Christians to support their reasoning for switching Sabbaths.
Surely there had been ample time for Sunday observance to become firmly established in the NT church after 20 years had passed, especially among Gentiles.

klutedavid · Jan 20, 2016

Bump.

klutedavid · Jan 20, 2016

Hello Jacob's well.

Are you a mainstream Seventh Day Adventist?

jacobs well · Jan 21, 2016

Church of God

klutedavid · Jan 22, 2016

Hello JW.

There are many 'Church of God' organizations, please clarify.

jacobs well · Jan 24, 2016

I am with the Church of God International and affiliated with the United Church of God
Our beliefs are based on the Word of God, the Holy Bible- Matt 4:4
The New Testament church was referred to as the " Church of God " in scripture.
But a name means nothing unless you practice and teach what that name represents.
There are numerous churches of God around the world that keep different doctrinal tenets not
in line with Biblical directives and principles.
The true Church of God is the spiritual body of Christ that has a mandate to continue with the witness and message Jesus
initiated through His life, instructions, and sacrifice for every person and nation.

What Church do you follow?

jacobs well · Jan 27, 2016

When you look into the early years of Christianity we can find theologians admitting that it was indeed church tradition, rather than Scripture, which brought about a Sunday observance in place of the seventh day Sabbath.
Roman Catholic theologian James Cardinal Gibbons wrote, in his book Faith of our Fathers, the following :
" But you may read the Bible from Genesis to revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify. "
Harold Lindsell, a former editor of Christianity Today magazine and a prominent Southern Baptist minister wrote:
" There is nothing in Scripture that requires us to keep Sunday rather than Saturday as a holy day."
A History of the Councils of the Church tells of the Council of Laodicea decree declaring " Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but MUST WORK on that day, resting rather on Sunday.
Is there any greater authority for Sunday observance than the Catholic Encyclopedia?
" Sunday, day of the sun derived from Egyptian astrology began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day for public worship of God."-Volume XIV

Will we let the traditions of men decide which day we should observe to be kept Holy instead of following the
commandment of God?

ebedmelech · Jan 27, 2016

The Church of God International is a spinoff of Herbert W Armstrong's "Worldwide Church of God". They published the magazine "The Plain Truth".

It explains a lot when it comes to jacobs well.

jacobs well · Jan 28, 2016

ebedmelech said:
The Church of God International is a spinoff of Herbert W Armstrong's "Worldwide Church of God". They published the magazine "The Plain Truth".

It explains a lot when it comes to jacobs well.

I believe it's the Catholic church and other Christian publications that are doing the explaining.

jacobs well · Jan 29, 2016

I think among the many posts here, one convinces me more than ever.
It's in Matthew 5:18 - " For many will say unto you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Have heaven and earth passed?
Have all things written in the law and the prophets come to pass? Of course not.
Shouldn't we believe that Jesus meant precisely what He said.
Now, as if all this was not enough , Jesus added in verse 19 to explain the consequences of what He said.
" Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so........"
These would be strange words indeed if Jesus intended to nail the Ten Commandments to the cross. to abolish or repeal the law.
What denomination argues that it is permissible to have more than one God to worship-to violate the 1st Commandment?
Is there a church somewhere that says you can dishonor your mother and father now?
Or a cult that encourages its membership to lie, covet, or steal?
In addition to Jesus' clear support of the law, He went to great lengths to demonstrate the true intent of the
10 Commandments, in particular the 4th one.
If we are going to be followers of Christ, isn't it about time we stopped arguing with our Teacher and started doing the things He said.
" .....whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven."

klutedavid · Jan 29, 2016

Hello JW.

The way you have been taught to interpret the scripture, is determined by where
you place the emphasis in your interpretation. For example, you have been taught
to highlight the fourth commandment. May I ask how you interpret the phrase
'the law', which occurs repeatedly in the New Testament?

Having trouble with my computer, have ordered a new one,
if no reply you know why, thanks.

ebedmelech · Jan 30, 2016

jacobs well said:
I believe it's the Catholic church and other Christian publications that are doing the explaining.

No. It's basically the doctrine and beliefs of your organization that defines them...no one has to. You doing that in your own explanations. You clearly throughout this thread ignore that which refutes you from scripture to embrace only what think defends you from scripture.

jacobs well · Jan 30, 2016

ebedmelech said:
No. It's basically the doctrine and beliefs of your organization that defines them...no one has to. You doing that in your own explanations. You clearly throughout this thread ignore that which refutes you from scripture to embrace only what think defends you from scripture.

I'm only reporting what is printed by the catholic organization.
Is the Catholic Mirror lying?
Is the Catholic Encyclopedia publishing false claims?
Are the professors of ecclesiastical history writing fake evidence?
A 10 year old could research the Sunday observance change in less than an hour at the library and find enough information to wonder how we could come to honor a man made transfer over the Word of God.

Don't attack the messenger-I'm only posting what is in the Bible and the annals of historical records.
When Jesus said " I have not come to destroy the Law...." I would believe Him.
If the Bible is our authority, you have no basis for observing Sunday.
If anybody still has any doubts about which day is the Christian Sabbath remember in God's Kingdom
everyone will be keeping the seventh day Sabbath - Isaiah 66:22-23

klutedavid · Jan 30, 2016

Hello JW.

Appreciate your replies to my questions.

Any reply that questions your interpretation of the scripture JW, is not a personal attack upon
you. Merely a discussion on the reasons for the emphasis on particular ideas and verses, and
the inference based on your interpretation of the scripture.

I am with the Church of God International and affiliated with the United Church of God.
Our beliefs are based on the Word of God, the Holy Bible- Matt 4:4

All church organizations have at least some doctrine derived from the scripture. Even cults and
sects justify there existence from the scripture.

The New Testament church was referred to as the " Church of God " in scripture.

Christ is the head of the church, perhaps 'the true church of Christ' would be an even better
name. The word 'God' is a very broad name, where as the name Jesus Christ is the name
above all names.

But a name means nothing unless you practice and teach what that name represents.

If we could generate a perfect church, mature and complete in Christ, then we would surely
exist in a perfect world.

There are numerous churches of God around the world that keep different doctrinal
tenets not in line with Biblical directives and principles.

That's why there are thousands of denominations, everyone has there own unique interpretation.

What Church do you follow?

I follow Jesus Christ and not a particular church movement, have never been a card carrying
member of any church organization. To this day, I have never seen a church doctrinal statement,
that truly reflects the teaching of the apostles. The reason for this difference, between a church
doctrine and the doctrine of the apostles, is that the church in the New Testament was an evolving
church. The apostles themselves were struggling with the doctrines of the church. Jesus did
not implement the full doctrine of the church immediately, it took decades, even centuries.

Early in the book of Acts, the church was wholly a Jewish church, a Gentile church did not
exist. After many years, the Gentile churches began to appear on the scene, the Gentile church
was entirely different to the Jewish church (Acts 15, Acts 21). One was under the law, the other
the uncircumcised, were not under the law. Paul was an apostle to the Gentile church, Peter,
James and John, were apostles to the Jews. Chalk and cheese.

ebedmelech · Jan 30, 2016

jacobs well said:
I'm only reporting what is printed by the catholic organization.
Is the Catholic Mirror lying?
Is the Catholic Encyclopedia publishing false claims?
Are the professors of ecclesiastical history writing fake evidence?
A 10 year old could research the Sunday observance change in less than an hour at the library and find enough information to wonder how we could come to honor a man made transfer over the Word of God.

Don't attack the messenger-I'm only posting what is in the Bible and the annals of historical records.
When Jesus said " I have not come to destroy the Law...." I would believe Him.
If the Bible is our authority, you have no basis for observing Sunday.
If anybody still has any doubts about which day is the Christian Sabbath remember in God's Kingdom
everyone will be keeping the seventh day Sabbath - Isaiah 66:22-23

I'm not Catholic. What I derive of the the Sabbath is based solely on scripture. Not once have you read anything that is not scripture in refuting your claim that believers are required to keep the Sabbath.

The only reason I entered this thread is so that new believers don't get caught up in the legalism of your beliefs. They need to know that Christ fulfills the Sabbath and we rest in HIM.

klutedavid · Jan 30, 2016

Hello JW.

The following verse is one you have mentioned.

Matthew 5
18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke
shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

The question that needs to be addressed given this verse above, is when will this
accomplishment of all things take place?

Matthew 5
17 Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish
but to fulfill.

We know Jesus came to fulfill all the promises in the scripture.

Luke 22:37
For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘And He was numbered
with transgressors’, for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.

Jesus has already fulfilled those things that have been written about Him.

Luke 24:44
Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with
you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets
and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

This is a much better verse, 'all things which are written' must be fulfilled by Jesus.

John 19:28
After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the
Scripture, said, “I am thirsty.”

Here is the proof that the 'all things' have been accomplished, so therefore for the
Jews (the chosen people), the necessity of the law has ended.

Therefore it is beyond any question that Jesus has indeed accomplished all that
was predicted about Him in the scripture (the law and the prophets). So the law
as a means of a self righteousness before God has been terminated.

jacobs well · Jan 31, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello JW.

Appreciate your replies to my questions.

Any reply that questions your interpretation of the scripture JW, is not a personal attack upon
you. Merely a discussion on the reasons for the emphasis on particular ideas and verses, and
the inference based on your interpretation of the scripture.

All church organizations have at least some doctrine derived from the scripture. Even cults and
sects justify there existence from the scripture.

Christ is the head of the church, perhaps 'the true church of Christ' would be an even better
name. The word 'God' is a very broad name, where as the name Jesus Christ is the name
above all names.

If we could generate a perfect church, mature and complete in Christ, then we would surely
exist in a perfect world.

That's why there are thousands of denominations, everyone has there own unique interpretation.

I follow Jesus Christ and not a particular church movement, have never been a card carrying
member of any church organization. To this day, I have never seen a church doctrinal statement,
that truly reflects the teaching of the apostles. The reason for this difference, between a church
doctrine and the doctrine of the apostles, is that the church in the New Testament was an evolving
church. The apostles themselves were struggling with the doctrines of the church. Jesus did
not implement the full doctrine of the church immediately, it took decades, even centuries.

Early in the book of Acts, the church was wholly a Jewish church, a Gentile church did not
exist. After many years, the Gentile churches began to appear on the scene, the Gentile church
was entirely different to the Jewish church (Acts 15, Acts 21). One was under the law, the other
the uncircumcised, were not under the law. Paul was an apostle to the Gentile church, Peter,
James and John, were apostles to the Jews. Chalk and cheese.

I find the Bible interprets itself- I try to use clear statements from scripture that shows or establishes certain doctrine rather than ones that are open to multiple explanations.

The Church of God is used throughout the NT a dozen times - Acts 20:28, 1 Cor 1:1-2, 1 Tim 3:5, etc
The church of Christ is used several times, since Christ is God
The name of the church is one of the identifying signs of God's people.
You have Baptists, named after one doctrine.
You have Lutherans, named after one man and so on.

True, there are thousands of different denominations-but is Christ divided?
The true church should believe in the divine inspiration of the Holy bible and its Laws and Commandments and practice
its instructions, not opinions of men.
CGI International has a statement of beliefs on its website that pretty well covers its mandate based on Apostolic teachings which were generally drawn from the Old Testament but with a new spiritual understanding.
But God's commands never evolved to the point of being eliminated.

Discussions about the New Covenant and Law as applied to the Gentile churches would be good for another thread as this one winds down regarding the Sabbath specifically.

Just looking at one other point, Paul teaches strongly throughout the NT to assemble together-Hebrews 10:24-26
We have a responsibility to be part of the active body of Christ under one head.

The New Testament Sabbath Day

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

My dog Micah in the pic

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

My dog Micah in the pic

Newbie

Well-Known Member

My dog Micah in the pic

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Similar threads