Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

civilwarbuff · Jan 13, 2016

jason_delisle said:
I concur. Btw...I love your thumbnail.

Thx, it is on this site...

patricius79 · Jan 13, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
If what a person believes brings them closer to Messiah then good for them....

Yes. Believing in Sacred Tradition--both Oral and Written--and knowing the Mother of God as my Mother has brought me closer to the Messiah.

civilwarbuff · Jan 13, 2016

And that is a great thing.....

civilwarbuff · Jan 13, 2016

jason_delisle said:
I concur. Btw...I love your thumbnail.

He found out that those were the 2 droids they were looking for..... ^_^

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Jan 13, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
He found out that those were the 2 droids they were looking for.....

But it was too late...sigh.

Root of Jesse · Jan 13, 2016

Fireinfolding said:
Because she was giving honor to the bearer of Him (via the "God bearing" womb and "God sucked" paps of her the creature) over Jesus Christ (the Creator). His place is always above her, and the one that honors the Son honors the Father, not he that honors his mother honors either.

She wasnt focusing on the fruit of her womb (which was Christ) but bestowing more honor (even in so few of words spoken by her) of that which pertains to Mary being chosen as the womb and paps of him (who created her).

She was just backwards

That's your interpretation. With very little authority behind it.

Root of Jesse · Jan 13, 2016

jason_delisle said:
I have given plenty of examples that you will turn a blind eye to. You are probably not even going to read these and pretend you never saw them. Here are 9 examples. Unless you can disprove every single statement you may sway me. Good luck, you have your homework cut out for you.

Btw...I highly doubt any catholic on this forum will honestly take me up on my offer.

1. Does Jesus approve of calling the leaders of the church, "Father"?

Matthew 23:9
"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:9

In context, that's not what it says. He's telling the Pharisees to stop lording their position over others.

2. Did Jesus forbid repetitive prayer using Rosary Beads?

Matthew 6:7
"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. Matthew 6:7

I don't see anything about beads. But praying the Lord's prayer is "meaningless"? Howso?

3. Did Jesus have brothers and sisters from the womb of Mary?

Matthew 13:55-56
"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" Matthew 13:55-56

Jesus may have had siblings, but never does it say from the womb of Mary.

4. Did Joseph begin normal sexual relations with his wife after Jesus was born?

Matthew 1:24-25
"And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus." Matthew 1:24-25

It does not say he had sex with her. Until is an inadequate word, just as love and worship are.

5. Catholics engage in endless praise of Mary. When a woman praised Jesus' mother to his face, did Jesus commend encourage this woman to continue praising Mary?

Luke 11:27-28
"While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."" Luke 11:27-28

It doesn't say "On the contrary", it says More blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it. He was magnifying her utterance.

6. Does the Bible teach that a bishop (overseer) must be married AND ALSO have children as one of the conditions of being qualified to be a bishop?

1 Timothy 3:2-5
"A bishop, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)" 1 Timothy 3:2-5

No, I don't see where a bishop must be married. But if he is, he should only have one wife.

7. Does the Holy Spirit warn that "forbidding to marry" is a "doctrine of demons"?

1 Timothy 4:1-3
"But the Holy Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth." 1 Timothy 4:1-3

We don't forbid anyone to marry. We ask those considering the priesthood to give up marriage to a woman, and marry the Church.

8. Is Latin Mass forbidden in the Bible when no one in the pews understands Latin?

1 Corinthians 14:19
"in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." 1 Corinthians 14:19

When that was written, Latin wasn't being spoken there. Greek was.

9. Did Jesus say it was OK for man to change what the word of God teaches for man-made Catholic doctrine?

Mark 7:7-9
"'But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition." Mark 7:7-9

What words of God has the Church changed?

Root of Jesse · Jan 13, 2016

jason_delisle said:
Well...I guess the catholics don't care enough about my soul to explain the 9 examples of contradictions I laid out for them. I guess as long as they are saved who cares...right?

Give me a break. You think all I do is sit on here and wait for you?

Root of Jesse · Jan 13, 2016

jason_delisle said:
One way to start my path back home is to provide answers to the 9 examples. But I guess it is not your issue right?

Unless of course you have no answer.

Done, now do as you promised, and come back home, prodigal son...

Root of Jesse · Jan 13, 2016

jason_delisle said:
I am actually being very honest. These 9 examples are some of the reasons why I left the Roman Catholic Church. Do you really think I never tried to get an answer from other Catholics or the priest? Well I have, and every Catholic that ever graced me with their presence refused to give me a direct answer to anything. Yet you have such a pious view of yourself that reminds me of so many other Catholics I've met. Just remember, on that day when you are being judged before the thrown of God, this event is going to be discussed. The day where God gave you an opportunity to save a lost soul but you chose to reject that opportunity because you did not care.

You know what the difference between you and me? I do not believe catholics are going to hell. I believe they are Christians and are saved. It just really bothers me that yourself and many (not all) Catholics think so highly of themselves and their faith that they look down on any other denomination.

Why is the Roman Catholic Church loosing so many members at rates never before seen if it is the "one true church"? I am not exaggerating. Their membership is hemorrhaging at an alarming rate. Why is that? What is the Roman Catholic Church doing wrong? Well, when you make statements like I am going to hell and then not even try to confront the very issues that lead me astray, you answer that question.

Refused to give you an anwer? I doubt it. BTW, God doesn't sit on a thrown. I don't believe you're going to hell, either, and neither does my church. I never said you were, and the Church doesn't have that authority. The Catholic Church is gaining membership world-wide, btw. We also feed more people, clothe more people, care for more sick, house more people, educate more people, and care for more prisoners than any other organization on Earth.

patricius79 · Jan 13, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
In context, that's not what it says. He's telling the Pharisees to stop lording their position over others.
I don't see anything about beads. But praying the Lord's prayer is "meaningless"? Howso?

I agree. I think that the Rosary is the best meditation on the mysteries of the life of Christ. I only started praying it recently, and it has no become a focal point in my life. It is very healing and life-giving.

Fireinfolding · Jan 13, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
That's your interpretation. With very little authority behind it.

Thats not news to me everything is of your own interpetation when disagreement arises, I give an account to Him on whether that is made clear (to me) and since its clear (to me) for me then I reject that and trust Jesus Christ.

Thursday · Jan 13, 2016

Fireinfolding said:
Thats not news to me everything is of your own interpetation when disagreement arises, I give an account to Him on whether that is made clear (to me) and since its clear (to me) for me then I reject that and trust Jesus Christ.

So you are your own pope!! How convenient.

Fireinfolding · Jan 13, 2016

Thursday said:
So you are your own pope!! How convenient.

There you go, I have no Heavenly Father

civilwarbuff · Jan 13, 2016

Thursday said:
So you are your own pope!! How convenient.

Wait a second....I thought the Majesterium handles scripture interpretation, not the Pope......

Thursday · Jan 13, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
Wait a second....I thought the Majesterium handles scripture interpretation, not the Pope......

The pope and the other bishops working together are the magisterium.

civilwarbuff · Jan 13, 2016

Thursday said:
The pope and the other bishops working together are the magisterium.

Learned something new....thx

EastCoastRemnant · Jan 13, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
Can you prove that this is what was meant, or is it just your personal interpretation?

Yes, actually you can... that is why I said study. The bible explains itself so is you break down the words and search for their meaning elsewhere in the Bible, the explanation will be given... for example, we know that a horse represents the church...

Isaiah 63:12,13
That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?

antletems said:
Sever quotes? Really?

Grow up! Deflecting by wryly pointing our a typo is juvenile...

Thursday · Jan 13, 2016

EastCoastRemnant said:
Yes, actually you can... that is why I said study. The bible explains itself so is you break down the words and search for their meaning elsewhere in the Bible, the explanation will be given... for example, we know that a horse represents the church...

Grow up! Deflecting by wryly pointing our a typo is juvenile...

What does this mean?

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Root of Jesse · Jan 13, 2016

Fireinfolding said:
Thats not news to me everything is of your own interpetation when disagreement arises, I give an account to Him on whether that is made clear (to me) and since its clear (to me) for me then I reject that and trust Jesus Christ.

I don't personally try to interpret Scripture. I study it, and what the Church teaches about it. Those who were taught by the apostles know more than I do.

Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

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