1 Kings 22:19-23 Interpretations?

visionary · Jan 9, 2016

Hoshiyya said:
The passage in 1 Ki. demonstrates the opposite.

God could have prevented the lying spirit, but actually approved of it and assured it of success, then said "go and do it" (1 Ki. 22:22). He certainly did not make it easier for Ahab, he made it harder for him.

We need to acknowledge what the passage ACTUALLY says before we can begin analyzing and explaining it. We can't begin "explaining" or doing apologetics before actually understanding the verses in question.

I didn't read the assurance of success not in the sense that this particular lying spirit has the gift of believably but maybe that Ahab is gullible and would believe just about anything that suits his desires.

Brokenhill · Jan 12, 2016

Truthfrees said:
Notice these words were TOLD TO AHAB: 1 Kings 22:20 - ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’

Entice vs blind/deceive. Ahab was not blinded or deceived. His free will is still intact.

Ahab has full disclosure from a true prophet of YHVH about what will happen, and yet Ahab chooses to defy YHVH.

Ahab has a history of not doing the moral thing or what YHVH wants.

He is already prone to go the wrong direction before he is presented with this choice.

1 Kings 21:13-23 says that Ahab knew the other prophets were lying, and yet Ahab chose their words over the words of a true prophet.

YHVH always gives us an informed choice. Deuteronomy 30:19, Joshua 24:15, Isaiah 7:16

Ignoring YHVH's information and choosing against HIM is foolishness and leads to trouble. Proverbs 1:7, Proverbs 10:23, Proverbs 13:20

Contrast YHVH's ways of giving full disclosure free will choice with the deceptive ways of man and the devil: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=deceive&qs_version=NKJV

I don't have an issue with the council or with Ahab's free will, just with God's decree to put a "spirit of falsehood in all these prophets".

Brokenhill · Jan 12, 2016

Hoshiyya said:
"The prophet told Ahab everything, so Ahab knew that an enticing spirit was involved.
Wouldn't that be considered easier?"

It didn't make it easier for Ahab to change his mind, since God's spirit was already forcing him into a set course of action. There's many ways to say what I just said in a much less direct way, but why beat around the bush ?

God is great. He can do as he pleases, and if we don't agree with his plan now, we will agree later, when it is all made clear. But I don't spend time apologizing for God's overriding of someone's free will, because who are we to talk back to God ?, as it says in Romans 9:19-21. I don't spend time being an apologist for God, as though he didn't have the right to do whatever he pleases.

I also don't have an issue with God stripping free will, like in the case of pharaoh, because that stripping is always going to be a just stripping.

I'm just trying to understand why God performs His will in certain ways...i'm trying to reconcile or reveal the tapestry of the New and Old Covenants and God's character in general, so as to validate scripture to build up my faith.

Maybe some of my issue is not having a grasp of ancient Hebrew.

Hoshiyya · Jan 15, 2016

Brokenhill said:
I also don't have an issue with God stripping free will, like in the case of pharaoh, because that stripping is always going to be a just stripping.

I'm just trying to understand why God performs His will in certain ways...i'm trying to reconcile or reveal the tapestry of the New and Old Covenants and God's character in general, so as to validate scripture to build up my faith.

Maybe some of my issue is not having a grasp of ancient Hebrew.

One's ability to conceive of the concept of Omnipotence is not dependent on speaking any particular language. God has no limitation, and is fully sovereign, yet acts with benevolence. For the last few centuries, the people of this globe have come to increasingly value free will over and above omnipotence in a monotheistic context, which has also gone hand in hand with secularization of society.

Hoshiyya · Jan 15, 2016

Gxg (G²) said:
There is such a thing as a Divine Council with differing beings sitting before the Lord - and even though others do not have access as before, they can be called upon.

That's a fascinating topic. There's a great article on that by Bryan Huie that every serious student of scripture should read:

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Divine-Council

He quotes Michael Heiser in there too.

Ultimately, it doesn't affect the responsibility of God, as he is the one who approves of everything anyway, but it is an important topic to understand in order to be able to appreciate and study the spirit realm with any seriousness.

Gxg (G²) · Feb 16, 2016

Hoshiyya said:
That's a fascinating topic. There's a great article on that by Bryan Huie that every serious student of scripture should read:

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Divine-Council

He quotes Michael Heiser in there too.

Ultimately, it doesn't affect the responsibility of God, as he is the one who approves of everything anyway, but it is an important topic to understand in order to be able to appreciate and study the spirit realm with any seriousness.

Many thanks for making the article available by Bryan Huie, as I'll have to investigate further. As Heisner is the foremost scholar on the issue, I am not surprised he's quoted. I think the topic is important in the sense that it does reveal the many ways that prayer/intercession works and how the judicial system in the Heavenlies works..

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1 Kings 22:19-23 Interpretations?

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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Brokenhill

Praise God, i'm satisifed.

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Brokenhill

Praise God, i'm satisifed.

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Hoshiyya

Spenglerian

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Hoshiyya

Spenglerian

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Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

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