Muslim discrimination

-57

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Right, and with this one line of the bible, you can immediately throw out countless commandments and opinions. What you're arguing is that homosexuality is absolutely okay according to the bible.



I kind of just want to leave this statement hanging in the room, as it really does show off the depths to which some Christians will sink to to defend their holy book. "The idea of slavery has several nuances." Do you seriously not understand what's wrong with that statement? We're talking about a relationship where one person is a person, and the other person is property. That is fundamentally immoral in principle and in practice. There is no nuance to this, only degrees to which it could be way more or slightly less awful.

But no. Even if I were to accept that, it wouldn't help you any. See, the kind of slavery I'm talking about? The kind I'm calling horribly immoral? It's the kind the bible describes. And you've done absolutely nothing but hand-wave and pretend that it's somehow some special, different kind of slavery, which completely ignores the crux of my argument. I'm not talking about the trans-atlantic slave trade. Every statement I've made about biblical slavery is based on verses in Exodus. I'm not referring to extrabiblical sources when I say that Israeli slavemasters were allowed to beat their slaves to the verge of death. I'm not referring to some old atheist scholar when I say that the children of slaves are also enslaved. I'm directly referencing verses in the old testament.

But if anyone does want to see a scholar's take on it:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crosse...cal-slavery-was-the-same-as-american-slavery/

“4. A Difference In How People Freed Themselves From Slavery.” Wallace argues that there were more ways for OT slaves to free themselves than in America.

  • Someone could pay the debt of an indentured servant, or they could do it themselves.
  • The indentured servant could complete his term of service.
  • Slave could be freed if injured from a beating (it’s unclear which kind of slave this refers to).
How is this different from conditions in America? In addition, slaves in America sometimes bought their freedom, which the Bible doesn’t address.

Let me again give Jim Wallace credit for giving a fairly thorough list of Bible verses on the subject at hand. But Jim, tell me the truth. Are you a Poe? You let the Bible speak for itself, and it does: it documents a 2500-year-old version of American slavery. The two are almost identical, point by point.​
cadet...it was explained to you. Several times
Your argument have not been convincing.
 
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The Cadet

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Being an atheist...I would think you have no concept of morals.

Maybe you should learn something about atheism, then, because not only do most atheists have a fairly strong conception of morals, but when it comes to indicators of immorality like crime rates, rates of teen pregnancy, rates of abortion (boy, you'd think you guys would have that one sewn up, wouldn't you?), and more, atheists absolutely cream Christians.

cadet...it was explained to you. Several times
Your argument have not been convincing.

Anyone from the peanut gallery want to chime in on that one? Your arguments thus far have been, "The version practiced in the bible wasn't that immoral! It's different! No really, it's indentured servitude!" My arguments have been essentially a direct refutation of that by pointing directly to the scripture.
 
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-57

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Maybe you should learn something about atheism, then, because not only do most atheists have a fairly strong conception of morals, but when it comes to indicators of immorality like crime rates, rates of teen pregnancy, rates of abortion (boy, you'd think you guys would have that one sewn up, wouldn't you?), and more, atheists absolutely cream Christians.



Anyone from the peanut gallery want to chime in on that one? Your arguments thus far have been, "The version practiced in the bible wasn't that immoral! It's different! No really, it's indentured servitude!" My arguments have been essentially a direct refutation of that by pointing directly to the scripture.
Atheist have NOTHING to base morals upon.

...secondly, you agument failed. Get over it.
 
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Rajni

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cadet...it was explained to you. Several times
Your argument have not been convincing.
It most certainly has been. I'm still absolutely amazed
at how you've tried to justify slavery (in all its
"nuances").

Atheist have NOTHING to base morals upon.
Could've fooled me.

...secondly, you agument failed. Get over it.
Nope, however yours has. Get over it.


-
 
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The Cadet

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Atheist have NOTHING to base morals upon.
We have empathy and the golden rule. That's usually enough. And keep in mind, you just spent the last few pages arguing that slavery is nuanced and can be morally acceptable... And now you're saying I have nothing to base my morals upon?
 
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DogmaHunter

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Not really.

New International Version
Do to others as you would have them do to you.

New Living Translation
Do to others as you would like them to do to you.

English Standard Version
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

New International Version
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

New Living Translation
"Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.

English Standard Version
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Berean Study Bible
In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

The Quran has passages stating that "killing a human is like killing all of humanity" and "be kind to the people of the book (=christians and jews)".

Cherry picking the occasional "good" verse, does not remove all the nasty bits.
 
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SkyWriting

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Cherry picking the occasional "good" verse, does not remove all the nasty bits.

Actually it does explain why the historical parts were included.
Which nasty bits do you need help understanding?

2 Corinthians 8:8 ... I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness
of others that your love also is genuine. ...

Romans 13:8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one
another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

1 Corinthians 13:3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give ...
... If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast
about it; but if I didn't love others, I would have gained nothing.


Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what ...
... Don't just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong.


1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels ...
... If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn't love
others
, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.


1 Corinthians 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom ...
... and if I understood all of God's secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if
I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn't love others, I would

Luke 11:42 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of
... rue and every kind of garden herb, and yet disregard justice and the love of God;
but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.


Colossians 1:8 and who also told us of your love in the Spirit.
... He has told us about the love for others that the Holy Spirit has given you.


1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy
... Love has long patience, is kind; love is not emulous of others;
love is not insolent and rash, is not puffed up,


Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is
... Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God's law.


Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace ...
... The Spirit, on the other hand, brings a harvest of love, joy, peace;
patience towards others, kindness, benevolence;
 
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SkyWriting

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What a disturbing and dangerous moral system you hold.

I didn't create it. Beware of the "danger" below:


Luke 6:32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to ...
"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to
you? Even sinners love those who love them.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out ...
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to
do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

1 John 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. ...
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love.
Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

1 John 4:20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or ...
..... Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar.

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If ...
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves
the world, love for the Father is not in them.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy ...
..... Love is patient, love is kind. ... Love is patient and kind.

Hosea 3:1 The LORD said to me, "Go, show your love to your wife ...
The LORD said to me, "Go, show your love to your wife again, though she
is loved by another man and is an adulteress.

1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the ...
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere
love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 Now about your love for one another we do not ...
Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for
you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.

1 John 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God ...
This is how we know that we love the children of God:
by loving God and carrying out his commands.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another ...
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God
lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. ... Dear friends,
let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God.

Song of Solomon 8:7 Many waters cannot quench love; rivers cannot ...
Many waters cannot quench love; rivers cannot sweep it away. If one were to give
all the wealth of one's house for love, it would be utterly scorned.

John 15:10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love ...
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have
kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is ...
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. ... Love
does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God's law. ...
 
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SkyWriting

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Why do you and Sky both care so much about slave meaning the same thing it does today? It doesn't matter. Either way it is immoral.

Slavery then, is the same thing as employment today.
The difference is that many of the conditions have been
improved by additional laws. Similar to the laws that were
in place back then. It's less barbaric, but not that great.
There are practices in business that are immoral today.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Which nasty bits do you need help understanding?

The fact that you need to ask is supportive of my point concerning your cherry picking.

So..... when's the last time you stoned somebody for working on the sabbath?


2 Corinthians 8:8 ... I say this not as a command, but to prove by the earnestness
of others that your love also is genuine. ...

Romans 13:8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one
another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

1 Corinthians 13:3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give ...
... If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast
about it; but if I didn't love others, I would have gained nothing.


Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what ...
... Don't just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong.


1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels ...
... If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn't love
others
, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.


1 Corinthians 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom ...
... and if I understood all of God's secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if
I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn't love others, I would

Luke 11:42 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of
... rue and every kind of garden herb, and yet disregard justice and the love of God;
but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.


Colossians 1:8 and who also told us of your love in the Spirit.
... He has told us about the love for others that the Holy Spirit has given you.


1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy
... Love has long patience, is kind; love is not emulous of others;
love is not insolent and rash, is not puffed up,


Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is
... Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God's law.


Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace ...
... The Spirit, on the other hand, brings a harvest of love, joy, peace;
patience towards others, kindness, benevolence;

I can only repeat myself about how cherry picking the occasional good verse, doesn't remove all the nasty bits that we left behind us upon entering the enlightment age.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Slavery then, is the same thing as employment today.

LOL!!!!

Yeah, as a boss at my company, I get to beat my workers as long as they don't die within a day or two.

I also don't bother with solicitations... I just go buy them at the local employee market, where they are sold as goods after being captured as spoils of war.

The difference is that many of the conditions have been
improved by additional laws. Similar to the laws that were
in place back then. It's less barbaric, but not that great.

Whatever makes you sleep at night, dude.
 
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joshua 1 9

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The vast majority of Muslims do not take the q'uran literally, and are peaceful. To make a generalization about all Muslims based on a small minority is completely and utterly ignorant.
So you are saying that the vast majority of Muslims do not follow their religion? You have to look at the polls to see what percent of Muslims in any given country at any give time support Jihad. Also even more important is the vast majority support shariah law, and that is fine in their own county. But they can not expect other countries much less the whole world to convert to their law. So you pretty much have a double wammie here. The very high percentage that support Shariah law and then you have the question of how many Muslims support Jihad and want world wide Shariah law.

Over 70% of Muslims Support Sharia Law, 90% Support Execution of Apostates – Statistics

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress....aria-law-90-support-execution-of-apostates-2/

20130504_gdc518.png
 
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joshua 1 9

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The above figure on Iraq demonstrates either a flaw in the methodology or some extremely confused Muslims. 90+% are for Sharia law and freedom of religion? :scratch:
Yu must mean Pakistan. If you notice they have Atomic weapons.
 

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SkyWriting

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LOL!!!!
Yeah, as a boss at my company, I get to beat my workers as long as they don't die within a day or two.
I also don't bother with solicitations... I just go buy them at the local employee market, where they are sold as goods after being captured as spoils of war.

Like I said...conditions have improved some.
My boss has people crying once a month or so.
Physical violence does not cause as much damage
as psychological damage can.
 
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SkyWriting

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The fact that you need to ask is supportive of my point concerning your cherry picking.

You call them "bits" and fail to produce them.
I'm willing to help you with any nasty bits you find.
 
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