Futurist Only Thousand years

Fusion77

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Of course, I say this for the sake of argument. I really don't think 200 years is a correct representation of the average lifespan. Isaiah 65:20 also says the youth will die at 100. If we equate that to today, youth = 5-20 year old? i.e. 10 year old youth... 10X7 = 70... 100X7=700? Who knows but similar to pre-flood.
 
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Fusion77

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Actually, if it was pre-flood times it would be several HUNDRED years for lifespan. Methuselah lived for 975 years, Noah live for 300+ years, Adam lived for 900+ years. From after the flood till now, we have been given 120 years on this earth. Some people have been blessed with more. The typical lifespan these days depend on where you live, how you lived your life, and sometimes how you were raised, but God has given us 120 days on this earth.

One thing that I haven't considered is how long the lifespan will be for those who are living during the 1000 years. Because those who were raptured at the end will be immortal.
But, to give my opinion, as to how long the lifespan will be...I wrote this fully believing that anyone born during that time will have the chance to live out his days. We see from Isaiah 65:20 that a child will die at 100 and that the old man will live out his days. We see in Isaiah 65:22 that the years will be like a tree. In Which case, there are olive trees, that are a thousand + years old. Also Mediterranean cypress likewise that are 1000 + years old. Some trees are several 1000 years old, while others die at less than 100. However, I believe the child dying at 100 and the old man living out his days, gives us a better view, that most, or at least many will live their days out.
 
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Fusion77

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how are you getting these exact timelines?
By STUDY.


the angels sound all the trumpets. In every single trumpet an angel blows the trumpet. Even in chapter 8, verse 6 it says that 7 angels were getting ready to sound the trumpets.
Yes, and this is AFTER all seven seals are broken. Don't miss that part.



where are you getting the basis that they're different? i'm assuming they're the same because I have yet to find a verse that says that they're different. It's like saying the Olivet Prophecies in Matthew, Mark, and Luke are talking about different events because they say the same thing word for word. But they're the same event written by 3 different people give by the same man at the same time.
You are approaching this backwards. The bible shows them in different chapters of different books - and by different authors. In other words, GOD separated them. it is you that are trying to put them together and make them one. It is up to you to PROVE BY SCRIPTURE that events written separately must be one and the same thing. As an example, the signs in the sun and moon (Rev. 6 and Matthew 24) are written in different books by different authors and they are NOT THE SAME. How can anyone think that a darkened sun and darkened moon can equal a blood red moon? We can only see the moon IF it reflects sunlight. If no sunlight hits the moon it will be SO DARK it will not be seen. We can SEE a blood red moon. By the way, there is ONE GOOD way the sun appears black and that is a total eclipse. There is ONE GOOD way the moon appears blood red - and that is at an eclipse. just saying....

When did I say that the gathering is at Rev 7? Nevermind, I see how you saw that. Revelation is written with overlapping timelines. Imagine I tell you a story and then I go back and give you more information on a specific timeframe. Revelation does this, but multiple times.
NO IT ISN'T (written with overlap) and you cannot prove it is. No one ever has been able to prove things in Revelation "overlap." Why? Because they don't. If you THINK it does, then by all means SHOW US: give us examples.

I urge you to read all the events that speak on the rapture itself. Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Thes, 1 Cor, 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Bowl. While they not match word for word, they all have some of the same events that occur during that specific time that is not described anywhere else for that event. You'll find they match.

STOP!!! You cannot prove Matthew 24 is the rapture. NO ONE EVER HAS. Not by scripture. That is only a theory and a poor one. They come at different times and cannot be the same. I have a question: is God not allowed to have ANOTHER "gathering" without people jumping on it like a dog on a bone and then INSISTING it is the same gathering?[/QUOTE]
So often I hear that the 3.5 years is 1260 days, and believed that to be the case myself. However, after reviewing the Hebrew calendar, I came to find that is likely impossible. That, and many other things allowed me to consider a different possibility.

In the Hebrew calendar, a normal year has 354-355 days. So to make it line up with the solar calendar, a intercalary (year) is added about every 3 years. A leap year has 384-385 days. A 3.5 year period would usually be 354x2 + 384 + 355•1/2 = about 1269 or somewhere in that area. However if there are 2 leap years in a 3.5 year period (which will likely be the case), you would have 354X2 + 384 +29.5•7 = around 1298.5. Daniel 12:11 Daniel 12:7 Daniel 7:25 all speaking of the same period of time. Daniel 12:11 (1290 days), yet being slightly less time that the others, as the power of Gods holy people, will be scattered/shattered, before the Abomination of desolation. 3.5 years in this case possibly 1297+ days, falling just before a leap year in the Hebrew calendar.

See, in a leap year, they double the month of Adar. However, Adar 2, which is the extra month,is still considered the 12 month, according to Jewish tradition. Therefore, 42 months 3.5 years just about the same, maybe with a little wiggle room.

1260 days is 1260 days. I would venture to say the abomination of desolation would happen during the fall feasts before an intercalary year in the Hebrew calendar. Of course, allowing for more that 1290 days in a 3.5 day period. This would allow Daniel 12:11 to line up with all others.


Zechariah 6:12-13 says the Branch (Messiah) will build the temple of the Lord. This does not speak of a physical temple. This Speaks of Christ and a spiritual temple. The Jews missed that, they're still waiting for this. Some will likely equate the building of their 3rd temple to this scripture. The anti christ, of course will deceive them further in this matter, and claim to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. Many Jews expect the feast of tabernacles, to see their Messiah return, or at least a good possibility. Besides there's more biblical evidence to this.


I guess my point being 3.5 years couldn't really be 1260 days.[/QUOTE]
 
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Fusion77

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[/QUOTE]
So often I hear that the 3.5 years is 1260 days, and believed that to be the case myself. However, after reviewing the Hebrew calendar, I came to find that is likely impossible. That, and many other things allowed me to consider a different possibility.

In the Hebrew calendar, a normal year has 354-355 days. So to make it line up with the solar calendar, a intercalary (year) is added about every 3 years. A leap year has 384-385 days. A 3.5 year period would usually be 354x2 + 384 + 355•1/2 = about 1269 or somewhere in that area. However if there are 2 leap years in a 3.5 year period (which will likely be the case), you would have 354X2 + 384 +29.5•7 = around 1298.5. Daniel 12:11 Daniel 12:7 Daniel 7:25 all speaking of the same period of time. Daniel 12:11 (1290 days), yet being slightly less time that the others, as the power of Gods holy people, will be scattered/shattered, before the Abomination of desolation. 3.5 years in this case possibly 1297+ days, falling just before a leap year in the Hebrew calendar.

See, in a leap year, they double the month of Adar. However, Adar 2, which is the extra month,is still considered the 12 month, according to Jewish tradition. Therefore, 42 months 3.5 years just about the same, maybe with a little wiggle room.

1260 days is 1260 days. I would venture to say the abomination of desolation would happen during the fall feasts before an intercalary year in the Hebrew calendar. Of course, allowing for more that 1290 days in a 3.5 day period. This would allow Daniel 12:11 to line up with all others.


Zechariah 6:12-13 says the Branch (Messiah) will build the temple of the Lord. This does not speak of a physical temple. This Speaks of Christ and a spiritual temple. The Jews missed that, they're still waiting for this. Some will likely equate the building of their 3rd temple to this scripture. The anti christ, of course will deceive them further in this matter, and claim to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. Many Jews expect the feast of tabernacles, to see their Messiah return, or at least a good possibility. Besides there's more biblical evidence to this.


I guess my point being 3.5 years couldn't really be 1260 days.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
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Fusion77

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STOP!!! You cannot prove Matthew 24 is the rapture. NO ONE EVER HAS. Not by scripture. That is only a theory and a poor one. They come at different times and cannot be the same. I have a question: is God not allowed to have ANOTHER "gathering" without people jumping on it like a dog on a bone and then INSISTING it is the same gathering?
So often I hear that the 3.5 years is 1260 days, and believed that to be the case myself. However, after reviewing the Hebrew calendar, I came to find that is likely impossible. That, and many other things allowed me to consider a different possibility.

In the Hebrew calendar, a normal year has 354-355 days. So to make it line up with the solar calendar, a intercalary (year) is added about every 3 years. A leap year has 384-385 days. A 3.5 year period would usually be 354x2 + 384 + 355•1/2 = about 1269 or somewhere in that area. However if there are 2 leap years in a 3.5 year period (which will likely be the case), you would have 354X2 + 384 +29.5•7 = around 1298.5. Daniel 12:11 Daniel 12:7 Daniel 7:25 all speaking of the same period of time. Daniel 12:11 (1290 days), yet being slightly less time that the others, as the power of Gods holy people, will be scattered/shattered, before the Abomination of desolation. 3.5 years in this case possibly 1297+ days, falling just before a leap year in the Hebrew calendar.

See, in a leap year, they double the month of Adar. However, Adar 2, which is the extra month,is still considered the 12 month, according to Jewish tradition. Therefore, 42 months 3.5 years just about the same, maybe with a little wiggle room.

1260 days is 1260 days. I would venture to say the abomination of desolation would happen during the fall feasts before an intercalary year in the Hebrew calendar. Of course, allowing for more that 1290 days in a 3.5 day period. This would allow Daniel 12:11 to line up with all others.


Zechariah 6:12-13 says the Branch (Messiah) will build the temple of the Lord. This does not speak of a physical temple. This Speaks of Christ and a spiritual temple. The Jews missed that, they're still waiting for this. Some will likely equate the building of their 3rd temple to this scripture. The anti christ, of course will deceive them further in this matter, and claim to be God. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. Many Jews expect the feast of tabernacles, to see their Messiah return, or at least a good possibility. Besides there's more biblical evidence to this.


I guess my point being 3.5 years couldn't really be 1260 days.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE] I apologize for all that. I obviously messed up when trying to give a response. Or to give a scenario on the 3.5 years. I've got a bunch of different posts mixed in with my post. Very sorry.
 
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Fusion77

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Your theories are a mile off from scripture. Please, TRY to say what the Bible says? It is at the 5th trumpet that the abyss is unlocked.

Yes, abomination is the midpoint. But if we follow Dan. 9:27 closely it is the ceasing of the daily sacrifices. "... in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease..."

I am convinced that this occurs when the man of sin enters the most holy place in the temple and declares he is god. This will surely be an abomination.

Yes, the two witnesses appear just before the midpoint. In fact, that is when they begin their testimony. What you miss is that 11:4-13 is written as a parentheses with no bearing on chronology. Here is John's chronology:

11:1-2 the man of sin arrives in Jerusalem with his Gentile armies, so the city will be trampled.
11:3 the two witnesses show up 3 1/2 days before the midpoint and begin their testimony.
4-13 (or 14: I am going from memory) John takes us down the last half of the week with the two witnesses only. It may appear that they are killed just before the 7th trumpet but that is simply not what John is showing us. they must testify for 1260 days. They BEGIN 3 1/2 days before the midpoint and testify until 3 1/2 days before the END (the 7th vial). They are killed and lay dead until the end of the week, and are raised with all the rest of the Old Testament saints at the 7th vial.

7th trumpet sounds marking the exact midpoint and time of abomination.
12:6 those in Judea flee.

All chronology will be off uniless this parentheses is recognized from 11:4 to the end of the narrative of the two witnesses.

Start of chapter 11: about 3 1/2 days before the midpoint.
End of chapter 11: one or two seconds after the midpoint.
So we need to be familiar with the Hebrew calendar to really understand this. The midpoint of the week will be equally divided 3.5 and 3.5 years. However, it will not be equally divided in days. Go to cgsf.org and select Roman Hebrew calendar.

Let's hypothetically say the covenant is confirmed on the 15 of Nisan 2018 (March 31st). Then it's broken at midpoint, 3.5 years later. However, that is 1270 or so days. That would be 15th of Tishri 2021 our year (September 24 2021). It's 3.5 years, However it is 1270 or so days. So the final 3.5 would be from 15th of Tishri 2021 (September 24th),until
15 Nisan 2025 (April 13th 2025). About 1298 days. So in the first half of the week 1270 or so days and the second half 1298 or so days. Still the midst of the week, but not equally divided in days. Daniel 12:11 tells us it will be at least 1290 days, so we know this is the case. It will happen some time when there will be 3 leap years in a 7 year period. With the final 3.5 starting just before a leap year. This will allow for more that 1290 days in a 3.5 year period.
 
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Echolipse

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STOP!!! You cannot prove Matthew 24 is the rapture. NO ONE EVER HAS. Not by scripture. That is only a theory and a poor one. They come at different times and cannot be the same. I have a question: is God not allowed to have ANOTHER "gathering" without people jumping on it like a dog on a bone and then INSISTING it is the same gathering?

So you mean to say Matthew 24:29-31, isn't speaking about the rapture at the end of the Tribulation. Also btw, we are completely off topic.

Matthew 24:29-31 - 29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Revelation 19:7-19 -7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 Then he *said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he *said to me, “These are true words of God.” 10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in mid heaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.


There by scripture i have now proven that the end of Matthew 24 is when the Bride of Christ is raptured up and when Christ returns. This is from the perspective of the heavenly realm and not from our realm. Revelation constantly changes from the heavenly perspective to the earthly perspective.
 
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Job8

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To my knowledge, there is really no one else that is rebellious to cause problems for 1,000 years.
Correct. But what exactly is your point? I see all kinds of Scriptures being posted above to send people off on tangents.

If we wish to focus on the Millennium, then that should be our focus. And there are many OT Scriptures which will confirm that this is a period of universal righteousness, peace, and prosperity, since Christ Himself in Ruler over the entire world -- King of kings, and Lord of lords. And the New Heavens and the New Earth are yet to come.
 
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iamlamad

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So you mean to say Matthew 24:29-31, isn't speaking about the rapture at the end of the Tribulation. Also btw, we are completely off topic.

Matthew 24:29-31 - 29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Revelation 19:7-19 -7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 Then he *said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he *said to me, “These are true words of God.” 10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in mid heaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.


There by scripture i have now proven that the end of Matthew 24 is when the Bride of Christ is raptured up and when Christ returns. This is from the perspective of the heavenly realm and not from our realm. Revelation constantly changes from the heavenly perspective to the earthly perspective.
WHERE? You just posted scriptures.

And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


This is certainly a "gathering" but it cannot be Paul's gathering. It comes 7 plus years later. And it is very strange to say the gathering is from "heaven." Why would just use that word when He could have used a word for EARTH? Paul does not mention a gathering done by angels. Paul's gathering will come as the trigger for the start of the DAY. This Day of the Lord begins about 7 years before this coming of Our Lord.

the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.”

This is a HEAVENLY scene and the marriage and supper will BE IN HEAVEN. Jesus is coming down to the Battle of Armageddon in Rev 19. It simply does not fit. HOW did the bride get there? Jesus has not descended yet? So this CANNOT be Paul's gathering. If Jesus gathered at His Rev, 19 coming all would miss the marriage, including Jesus himself!

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE that all these scriptures are about the same coming.
 
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Echolipse

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Correct. But what exactly is your point? I see all kinds of Scriptures being posted above to send people off on tangents.

If we wish to focus on the Millennium, then that should be our focus. And there are many OT Scriptures which will confirm that this is a period of universal righteousness, peace, and prosperity, since Christ Himself in Ruler over the entire world -- King of kings, and Lord of lords. And the New Heavens and the New Earth are yet to come.

I've actually recently come across that no where in Revelation does it speak that Satan's fallen angels and demons are bound, cast away, or destroyed. I have not searched OT scripture yet though. Haven't finished reading Enoch yet either. With that being said, that leads me to believe that the fallen angels and demons will still be active. I can't be sure though.
 
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Job8

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I've actually recently come across that no where in Revelation does it speak that Satan's fallen angels and demons are bound, cast away, or destroyed. I have not searched OT scripture yet though. Haven't finished reading Enoch yet either. With that being said, that leads me to believe that the fallen angels and demons will still be active. I can't be sure though.
Some truths are implied while others are stated explicitly. If Satan is bound, how likely is it that his minions are on the loose to do his dirty deeds?
 
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Echolipse

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WHERE? You just posted scriptures.

And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


This is certainly a "gathering" but it cannot be Paul's gathering. It comes 7 plus years later. And it is very strange to say the gathering is from "heaven." Why would just use that word when He could have used a word for EARTH? Paul does not mention a gathering done by angels. Paul's gathering will come as the trigger for the start of the DAY. This Day of the Lord begins about 7 years before this coming of Our Lord.

You have yet to show me a scripture that supports where 7 years before Christ's return the rapture happens. And I want a scripture that specifically says 7 years and doesn't just mention a "pulling up". Don't pull the, "you have to provide a scripture that proves me incorrect", I've given you all you need.

the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.”

This is a HEAVENLY scene and the marriage and supper will BE IN HEAVEN. Jesus is coming down to the Battle of Armageddon in Rev 19. It simply does not fit. HOW did the bride get there? Jesus has not descended yet? So this CANNOT be Paul's gathering. If Jesus gathered at His Rev, 19 coming all would miss the marriage, including Jesus himself!

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE that all these scriptures are about the same coming.

Where does it show that Paul's gathering is different than the Olivet Prophecy, the 7th trumpet, or Revelation 19?

Simple. The Bride is still on Earth going through the Tribulation. By reading Revelation 19 closely, you'll notice that the heavenly crowd is cheering - right before Christ goes to the Earth - that the Bride has made herself ready. Also no where in this scripture does it speak of the Feast until AFTER Christ goes down to make war.This alludes to the fact that the Church is still on the Earth and Christ is about to make war on the nations as the angels pull the church up.

If Christ did return 7yrs prior to pull up His Church and has been intimate with the Church, according to this scripture He was fornicating with them because the marriage hasn't been completing. Since the marriage comes AFTER this scripture; after He makes war with the nations.

Again, Revelation 19 is from the heavenly perspective when Christ is about to make war with the nations and the Bride is ready for Christ's return.

I hate debating....especially with close-minded individuals.

To say I'm close-minded btw is ignorant because I've gone from Pre-Trib to Post-wrath through my studies. Nowhere in scripture is the pre-trib rapture supported in scripture.

This is making no sense, I've deleted the end quotes 5x now and it's still stuck in there.
 
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Echolipse

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Some truths are implied while others are stated explicitly. If Satan is bound, how likely is it that his minions are on the loose to do his dirty deeds?

That's exactly my thoughts, but our Father is exact when it comes to His word. I would think He would specifically mention it if the fallen angels are demons were done away with as well.
 
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iamlamad

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Some truths are implied while others are stated explicitly. If Satan is bound, how likely is it that his minions are on the loose to do his dirty deeds?
Exactly! If he is bound, surely all the demons are bound too.
 
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iamlamad

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This is making no sense, I've deleted the end quotes 5x now and it's still stuck in there.
I think you need to read Rev. 19 again and pay close attention to chronology. All through the book, events happen at the time of mention, unless it is prophecy fulfilled later in the book.

Therefore when John says it is time for the marriage, that means RIGHT THEN - not later after another event.

AS proof of this, when John mentions it is time for the marriage supper, that means the marriage is OVER WITH. It is not until AFTER this that Jesus descends. A beginning reader would never come up with your theory when reading this.

I know a marriage in heaven does not fit posttrib theory, so I see lots of gymnastics to explain it away.

Nowhere in scripture is the pre-trib rapture supported in scripture.

This is simply not true. But I could reverse it and say nowhere in scripture is a posttrib rapture supported.

The truth is, Paul was the ONLY writer in the New Testament to receive the revelation of any kind of catching up of the living. Most back in those days did believe in the resurrection of the dead. Since Paul ties both together into one bible passage, let's leave them together and call it "the rapture."

When Jesus was answering the questions of the end, on the Mount of Olives, the Gentile church of which this rapture is about was a MYSTERY hidden in God. God had to wait and see if Israel would receive Jesus as their Messiah as a nation first. (of course He knew the outcome, but it seems He waits to see). Finally, after a few years of the preaching of the disciples and the nation had rejected Him, God turned to the Gentiles and the Gentile church began. The Jewish church disappeared after AD 70.

With this in mind, why would ANYONE think they would find information in the Olivet Discourse about a church that was still a mystery at the time. indeed, when Jesus told that about the end, it was about THEIR end, not about our end. Yes, there will be TWO ends, as the Gentile church will be caught up and then time will revert to the 70th week of Daniel. Therefore any "gathering" found in this discourse is not about the church of today. It is a different gathering.

If you erase the Mat. 24 gathering, what scripture is left for posttrib? Perhaps only 2 Thes 2. Posttrib thinks it is iron-clad proof, but it is not. It is the church departing (taken out of the way) that allows the man of sin to be revealed.

The truth is, neither Matthew 24 or 2 Thes. 2 are about a posttrib rapture.

1 Thes. 4 & 5 ARE about a pretrib rapture. Paul tells us that his rapture will come as the trigger for the start of the DAY and of His wrath. Where does that fit in Revelation's time-line? Just before the earthquake (Paul's sudden destruction) at the 6th seal.

The truth then is that a pretrib rapture IS supported by scripture, but a posttrib is not.

The clincher is that the marriage and supper will take place IN HEAVEN exactly as John wrote it.

I hate debating....especially with close-minded individuals.


For sure if someone is believing a lie, they should not be close-minded. On the other hand, if someone has the truth, they should not waver. The sad part, it seems those that believe a lie are FAR MORE close-minded.

Again, Revelation 19 is from the heavenly perspective when Christ is about to make war with the nations and the Bride is ready for Christ's return.


Read it again: the bride is ALREADY THERE.

If Christ did return 7yrs prior to pull up His Church and has been intimate with the Church, according to this scripture He was fornicating with them because the marriage hasn't been completing.


Wow! You would accuse God of fornicating?
 
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Luke17:37

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Where do you read that no new people are born? Remember after the thousand years of our Lord's reign, satan will be loosed again to deceive the nations. Who does he deceive? Obviously there are people who still have the sin nature living. Surely most of them were born during the thousand years.

You're right, and infants are specifically mentioned in the context of Jesus' earthly reign:

Isaiah 11 - the infant plays near the snake's hole

Isaiah 65 - no more shall the infant live only a few days
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Jesus is coming down with the already changed saints for the battle at the end of Rev. 19.
Notice that He leaves heaven with His armies. but only 1 army gets mentioned as being at the
battle.

Rev. 19 opens at the time of the great tribulation has ended.
The great harlot city that slew the trib saints is now going to be avenged.
The saints still wait to put on their new clothes-gain eternal life.

Rev. 19. The first thing you want to notice is that this is a brand new vision. Don't try to link the
last action of chapter 18 to the first one in chapter 19. Chapter 18 started and ended another vision.

Revelation 19:1
And after these things..../things - means other visions
....I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying...Alleluia...
/not yet changed to eternal life people, but the sleeping saints about
to return with Jesus Christ - at the time of Him wearing -one crown on His head.

....Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:"

/Salvation=This is what the church waits for to bring the end of her faith time.
1 Peter "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."
Rev. 14:12
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and
the faith of Jesus."
Rev. 13:7
"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints..."
13:10
"....Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."

So the great tribulation is ending at the opening of Rev. 19 and it is time to punish the harlot
city that slew the saints.

Rev. 19:2
"For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the
earth...
and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."

5th seal - has ended
Rev. 6:9
"And when he had opened the fifth seal...."
6:10
"...judge and avenge our blood on them..."
interesting.
 
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