Atheist Professor in Speech at Georgetown says it's okay to attack Christians verbally not Muslims.

ChristJudgeOfAll

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Eudaimonist

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“I would say two things,” Zuckerman said. “I know what keeps me from critiquing Islam on my blog is just fear.

“I’ve got three kids,” he said.


Is it moral to protect your children from possible violence? I'd say so.

[/endthread]


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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ChristJudgeOfAll

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“I would say two things,” Zuckerman said. “I know what keeps me from critiquing Islam on my blog is just fear.

“I’ve got three kids,” he said.


Is it moral to protect your children from possible violence? I'd say so.

[/endthread]


eudaimonia,

Mark

So it's moral to treat one group differently than another because you fear one group more?
 
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Freodin

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The Atheist Professor that teaches secular studies, says it's okay for atheists to criticize Christianity but not Islam because they fear for their lives when they criticize Islam.

Is that moral?
Yes, this is moral.

Contrary to what you might think this article nor this professor said that it is ok to give Islam a free pass for the points where they could validly be critizised by atheists (or anyone else). It just states that atheists don't do that (and that needs to be relevated... atheists do critizise Islam, and many pay the ultimate price for it) in the same number or way they do with Christianity.

Is it immoral to value the safety of your family and yourself?
 
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ChristJudgeOfAll

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Yes, this is moral.

Contrary to what you might think this article nor this professor said that it is ok to give Islam a free pass for the points where they could validly be critizised by atheists (or anyone else). It just states that atheists don't do that (and that needs to be relevated... atheists do critizise Islam, and many pay the ultimate price for it) in the same number or way they do with Christianity.

Is it immoral to value the safety of your family and yourself?

You are twisting the question, no one is saying he has to criticize Islam, but he needs to treat Islam and Christianity fairly.

This is essentially a kid picking on a weaker kid and leaving the bully alone because he's bigger and badder and could hurt him.

The issue isn't "is it moral to not pick on the big kid for your own safety", the issue is, "is it moral to pick on someone because they are nicer to you?"

Essentially he's saying he criticizes Christianity but not Islam because Christians aren't going to kill his kids.

So he's giving Christians the short end of the stick because they are nicer to him.

If he's not criticizing Islam, then he needs to not criticize Christianity.
 
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brinny

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The Atheist Professor that teaches secular studies, says it's okay for atheists to criticize Christianity but not Islam because they fear for their lives when they criticize Islam.

Is that moral?

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pen...isparage-christians-islam-limits-because-fear

Zuckerman mentioned comedian Bill Maher, actor Ben Affleck and atheist and author Sam Harris and the reaction to their remarks about Islam.

“I would say two things,” Zuckerman said. “I know what keeps me from critiquing Islam on my blog is just fear.

“I’ve got three kids,” he said. “So I know I can say anything about Christianity or Mormonism, and I’m not living in fear, which is a testament to Christianity and Mormonism, and that’s wonderful. Thank you.

“I would never write the same kind of stuff that I do about certain religions – Judaism, Christianity, LDS, whatever – as I would about Islam – just straight up fear,” Zuckerman said.

That's profound.
 
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Freodin

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You are twisting the question, no one is saying he has to criticize Islam, but he needs to treat Islam and Christianity fairly.

This is essentially a kid picking on a weaker kid and leaving the bully alone because he's bigger and badder and could hurt him.

The issue isn't "is it moral to not pick on the big kid for your own safety", the issue is, "is it moral to pick on someone because they are nicer to you?"

Essentially he's saying he criticizes Christianity but not Islam because Christians aren't going to kill his kids.

So he's giving Christians the short end of the stick because they are nicer to him.

If he's not criticizing Islam, then he needs to not criticize Christianity.
No.
He "needs" to critizise whatever he wants to critizise. What people "need" to do is not threaten to kill people who critizise them.

What you propose is the lesser bully claiming that he should be free to bully others, because the greater bully is more brutal than him.
 
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Chris B

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The Atheist Professor that teaches secular studies, says it's okay for atheists to criticize Christianity but not Islam because they fear for their lives when they criticize Islam.

It's actually a massive critique of Islam.

Atheists and Christians can have lively and even heated exchanges of words. But we believe in words.
(for the the last few hundred years, anyway.)
With Islam a distinct minority but all too many don't believe in words but in violent action in response to what is taken as insult.

There are countries in the world where I cannot openly speak of my world-view, and invite other people to consider joining me in holding it without risking judicial punishment, extrajudicial violence or both.
As far as I am aware these are all Islamic.

As a rough statement: Islam is not the same as other religions in the of handling both free speech and critique.

That is not to say "give in to it because it's dangerous".
(I've had interesting results, where demands are made, by making reciprocal demands "in the name of equality of respect". )
 
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Hank77

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The Atheist Professor that teaches secular studies, says it's okay for atheists to criticize Christianity but not Islam because they fear for their lives when they criticize Islam.

Is that moral?

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pen...isparage-christians-islam-limits-because-fear
I don't think he was saying that it is OK for atheist to criticize Christians, just that he does and others do without being fearful of reprisal. But he and others don't criticize Islam because they fear reprisal.
It's actually a complement to Christianity and he said Thank you.

I hear so much in this forum that Christianity and Islam both teach the same violence. I appreciate an atheist that understands that there is a difference and is more than willing to point it out. I thank him for doing so.
 
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keith99

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It's actually a massive critique of Islam.

Atheists and Christians can have lively and even heated exchanges of words. But we believe in words.
(for the the last few hundred years, anyway.)
With Islam a distinct minority but all too many don't believe in words but in violent action in response to what is taken as insult.

There are countries in the world where I cannot openly speak of my world-view, and invite other people to consider joining me in holding it without risking judicial punishment, extrajudicial violence or both.
As far as I am aware these are all Islamic.

As a rough statement: Islam is not the same as other religions in the of handling both free speech and critique.

That is not to say "give in to it because it's dangerous".
(I've had interesting results, where demands are made, by making reciprocal demands "in the name of equality of respect". )

Bolding mine.

But it is just a tiny bit subtle (and I'm not using the British art of gross understatement to mean it is very subtle, I mean exactly what I said, it has barely dipped a toe into subtle) and that means there is a subset of Christians that will never get it.

Hopefully in this case a very small subset of Christians.
 
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SteveB28

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I don't think he was saying that it is OK for atheist to criticize Christians, just that he does and others do without being fearful of reprisal. But he and others don't criticize Islam because they fear reprisal.
It's actually a complement to Christianity and he said Thank you.

I hear so much in this forum that Christianity and Islam both teach the same violence. I appreciate an atheist that understands that there is a difference and is more than willing to point it out. I thank him for doing so.

Yes, I had the same reaction Hank. The gentleman in question actually appears to be appreciating Christianity for its greater level of tolerance than that of Islam.

I would have thought that our friend initiating this discussion would be glad!
 
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Ken-1122

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Yes, this is moral.

Contrary to what you might think this article nor this professor said that it is ok to give Islam a free pass for the points where they could validly be critizised by atheists (or anyone else). It just states that atheists don't do that (and that needs to be relevated... atheists do critizise Islam, and many pay the ultimate price for it) in the same number or way they do with Christianity.

Is it immoral to value the safety of your family and yourself?
When is the last time someone or their family were attacked in the USA because they verbally attacked Islam?

Ken
 
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Eudaimonist

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So it's moral to treat one group differently than another because you fear one group more?

Yes, and I don't see why not. If it's just your neck on the line, risk your life if you feel the cause is important enough. However, when one has children, it's not so easy to risk their lives for one's own cause.

That might not seem "fair" in some childish playground way, but it is moral.

This is essentially a kid picking on a weaker kid and leaving the bully alone because he's bigger and badder and could hurt him.

He isn't "picking on a weaker kid". He's doing his job as a professor. He isn't punching Christians or stealing their lunch money. He's doing research and expressing his scholarly views. You might not agree with him, and I might not agree with him either, but that doesn't mean that he should be painted as a bully.

Don't you understand that one of the great benefits of a free society is that scholars are free to critique their own society, and we are free to benefit from that whether we disagree or not? You should be thanking him.

Essentially he's saying he criticizes Christianity but not Islam because Christians aren't going to kill his kids.

No, he criticizes Christianity because Christianity is not perfect and deserves criticism. He isn't criticizing them because he doesn't feel safe criticizing Islam. He's simply doing his job in the case of Christians.

So he's giving Christians the short end of the stick because they are nicer to him.

No, he's giving them what they deserve. He is treating them with justice. He's treating them like mature adults. He's simply afraid to do so in the case of Muslims.

You should be happy that he feels free enough to be honest with Christians instead of cowering in fear instead. You should appreciate that he is sharing with Christians his scholarly criticisms of them. Even if Christians disagree with him overall, they might learn something that will benefit them. Muslims, sadly, won't benefit from him. It's their loss.

Christians aren't getting the short end of the stick. They are getting the opposite end. It is Muslims that are being treated like wild animals. That is the short end.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Eudaimonist

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When is the last time someone or their family were attacked in the USA because they verbally attacked Islam?

I've never heard of such a case, but that isn't the issue in question. Perhaps the professor is being paranoid and excessive in his protectiveness, but parents are generally allowed to get paranoid over the safety of their children. Making sure their children are safe is their responsibility. It's understandable and moral.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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TerranceL

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When is the last time someone or their family were attacked in the USA because they verbally attacked Islam?

Ken
Verbally? Don't know, last year there were two muslims who felt the need to try to shoot up a "draw mohammad" event.
 
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It just states that atheists don't do that (and that needs to be relevated... atheists do critizise Islam, and many pay the ultimate price for it) in the same number or way they do with Christianity.
Please point me in the direction of even 100 atheists being martyred for their atheism. I know of a few, but to declare equivalency with the number of Christians martyred is a fantastic claim in the sense it is fantasy.

Edit added: My mistake. Upon re-reading Freodin's post, I realize he is not making the claim atheists are martyred in the same number as Christians. My apologies for the error.
 
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