Do you actually believe that a loving God will torture people in Hell forever?

Timothew · Jan 6, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
Spiritually die. Yes. Doesn't mean it no longer exists.

"spiritually die"??? Where do you get that? Where does the Bible ever use the term "spiritually die". Please be specific.

You should know that the Bible not only says that the wicked will perish, it also specifically states that the wicked will be no more. That means they will no longer exist. When you claim that it doesn't mean that they no longer exist you are contradicting what the Bible says. Good luck with that, but I would rather believe what the Bible says than what you say.

Timothew · Jan 6, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
That poster is not alone in that. The torture is internal to the soul.

So you believe that a person can be burnt alive forever and that is not torture in your book?

Or are you reading the Bible figuratively?

mmksparbud · Jan 6, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
That poster is not alone in that. The torture is internal to the soul.

Fire and brimstone is internal to the soul???

Root of Jesse · Jan 7, 2016

mmksparbud said:
Fire and brimstone is internal to the soul???

Is that what I said?? Read for comprehension.

mmksparbud · Jan 7, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
Is that what I said?? Read for comprehension.

Root of Jesse said:
That poster is not alone in that. The torture is internal to the soul.

So, how is fire and brimstone an internal torture?

Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Timothew · Jan 7, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
Is that what I said?? Read for comprehension.

Read for comprehension:
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

Comprehension test questions:
1. According to Romans 6:23, what is the wages of sin?
a. Eternal Torment in Fiery Hell.
b. Death.
c. $8.45 per hour.
d. "separation" from God.

2. According to Romans 6:23, what is the gift of God?
a. Heaven.
b. Eternal life.
c. Walmart Gift Cards.
d. There is no gift of eternal life, because everyone already has eternal life.

The answers are b to both questions. So how did you do? Did you pass the test?

mmksparbud · Jan 7, 2016

OK---somebody needs to read for comprehension for the post states I N T E R N A L ---not E T E R N A L---so how is fire and brimstone an INTERNAL torture and no an EXTERNAL torture? It is understood most of you mean eternal.

AHH who-stole-my-name · Jan 7, 2016

MoreCoffee said:
Hell is written about in holy scripture. What more need be said?

The one thing that stands out in my mind is that the punishment for adultery was also put into Holy scripture and Christ dismissed that when he interceded in her behave and just told her to sin no more.

I'm not speaking for God nor am I even considering that he might not have people placed in Hell. It's just that when I think about eternal damnation, i think of that very incident.

EastCoastRemnant · Jan 8, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
The torture is internal to the soul.

Where does this idea come from that we have a soul... some part of us that is immortal? Isn't that the implication in the lie told to Eve in the garden? That though shall not surely die... plays well to man's desire for natural immortality and Satan knows it.

When God made Adam, he became a living soul... no where else in the bible does the mention of soul mean anything other than life.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

JohnRabbit · Jan 9, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
Spiritual death.

the verses i posted are clear and in no way imply you mean!

the bible, however, does speak of the spiritually dead/spiritual death:

Ephesians 2:1,5(NKJV)
1And you He made alive, who were dead (spiritually dead/spiritual death) in trespasses and sins,
5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), (i.e, we are/were forgiven)

Jesus made a reference to the spiritually dead:

Matthew 8:22(NKJV)
22But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

this is totally different from what you are trying to espouse!

John speaks of the body.

Speaking of the body, once again.

of course, these are erroneous statements, as the scripture i posted said no such thing!

i think you should read/reread post #169, written by EastCoastRemnant! it eloquently states what man is. (especially the part about the lie told to eve)

if not, believe Father Abraham, he seemed to know what he was:

Genesis 18:27(NKJV)
27Then Abraham answered and said, “Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: (notice he didn't say that he was a spirit or an immortal soul )

Root of Jesse · Jan 11, 2016

JohnRabbit said:
the verses i posted are clear and in no way imply you mean!

the bible, however, does speak of the spiritually dead/spiritual death:

Ephesians 2:1,5(NKJV)
1And you He made alive, who were dead (spiritually dead/spiritual death) in trespasses and sins,
5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), (i.e, we are/were forgiven)

Jesus made a reference to the spiritually dead:

Matthew 8:22(NKJV)
22But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

this is totally different from what you are trying to espouse!

of course, these are erroneous statements, as the scripture i posted said no such thing!

i think you should read/reread post #169, written by EastCoastRemnant! it eloquently states what man is. (especially the part about the lie told to eve)

if not, believe Father Abraham, he seemed to know what he was:

Genesis 18:27(NKJV)
27Then Abraham answered and said, “Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: (notice he didn't say that he was a spirit or an immortal soul )

This is why we need Sacred Tradition! We believe those who were taught by St. John, who can put these things in context. I know, you don't believe in it, but we do, and we have a better understanding of the Bible because of it.

Timothew · Jan 11, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
This is why we need Sacred Tradition! We believe those who were taught by St. John, who can put these things in context. I know, you don't believe in it, but we do, and we have a better understanding of the Bible because of it.

What the heck are we supposed to do when "sacred tradition" disagrees with "sacred scripture"???

Root of Jesse · Jan 11, 2016

Timothew said:
What the heck are we supposed to do when "sacred tradition" disagrees with "sacred scripture"???

That has never happened. Can you name a time when it happened?

jimmyjimmy · Jan 12, 2016

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matt 25:46 ESV)

Armoured · Jan 12, 2016

YHWH's Lion said:
There hasn't been a more damaging teaching to the character of God and to the Christian faith then the teaching: God is Love and Loves You, BUT if you do not love him and accept him, he will burn you and torture you or your loved ones in the flames of Hell for trillions and trillions and trillions of years? This is a God that is FAIR and JUST and WISE? and worthy of worship?

I, personally, believe that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. Because an infinitely just and loving God isn't going to condemn anyone to infinite suffering for finite acts.

That said, I suspect we all have purgatory to look forward to, because we still have to attone.

jimmyjimmy · Jan 12, 2016

I think that Tim Keller's short piece: The Importance of Hell is very helpful.

"There are plenty of people today who don't believe in the Bible's teaching on everlasting punishment, even those who do find it an unreal and a remote concept.

In 2003 a research group discovered 64% of Americans expect to go to heaven when they die, but less than 1% think they might go to hell. Not only are there plenty of people today who don't believe in the Bible's teaching on everlasting punishment, even those who do find it an unreal and a remote concept. Nevertheless, it is a very important part of the Christian faith, for several reasons.

1. It is important because Jesus taught about it more than all other Biblical authors put together. Jesus speaks of "eternal fire and punishment" as the final abode of the angels and human beings who have rejected God (Matthew 25:41,46) He says that those who give into sin will be in danger of the "fire of hell" (Matthew 5:22; 18:8-9.) The word Jesus uses for 'hell' is Gehenna, a valley in which piles of garbage were daily burned. . . ." READ FULL ARTICLE HERE

Timothew · Jan 12, 2016

Root of Jesse said:
That has never happened. Can you name a time when it happened?

Yes

Timothew · Jan 12, 2016

thatbrian said:
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matt 25:46 ESV)

Exactly! Only the righteous will go into eternal life. The others do not receive eternal life. Their eternal punishment is to be destroyed and remain destroyed forever. The verse specifically states that the RIGHTEOUS GO INTO ETERNAL LIFE. The unrighteous do not receive eternal life being tortured alive forever. The verse does not say that they do.

Root of Jesse · Jan 12, 2016

Armoured said:
I, personally, believe that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. Because an infinitely just and loving God isn't going to condemn anyone to infinite suffering for finite acts.

That said, I suspect we all have purgatory to look forward to, because we still have to attone.

You're right about God not sending anyone to hell. They put themselves there. God offers us a choice, and then gives us what we choose. If it's not Him, then it's "not Him", which is hell.

Root of Jesse · Jan 12, 2016

Timothew said:
Yes

Please do so.

Do you actually believe that a loving God will torture people in Hell forever?

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in accordance with Christ

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just trying to understand

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So is America great again yet?

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